PhD/PsyD How to gain "direct testing experience" before applying to grad programs (Neuropsych)

[clinneuropsychhopeful2015]

So, I just went through the wringer that is PhD applications, and unfortunately did not receive an offer. I reached out to the PI I interviewed with at the one program where I felt I really clicked, and he provided some feedback.

He told me what set the other applicants apart was that they had either a masters degree or "direct testing experience". Unfortunately, deadlines have way passed for masters programs and I, not being a silver spoon child, cannot afford to get into debt for a degree that won't be extremely valuable outside a preparation for grad school context. I'm also not super keen on the idea of sitting on my hands for a year and applying to masters in the fall.

The PI I spoke with emphasized that I was a competitive applicant and to try again next year, as I'd definitely fit in somewhere. My question is, how does one obtain direct neuropsychological testing experience without a masters degree or 2+ years past experience in testing? I've been looking up Psychometrist positions, as he recommended, but it seems like they all require post-bachelors education or experience.

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[WisNeuro]

Depends on what is available. As an undergrad I worked on a research project doing testing for ADHD children and teens. If there is a neuropsych lab in your area, that'd be the easy way.

The only problem with full-time psychometrist positions is that it's hard to find long term people. Getting a psychometrist up and trained is fairly time intensive, and many people don't want to hire on someone who will leave in a year or two. Also, like you said, many require a masters degree. Some VA's will look at bachelors level, but it's dependent on area.

 

[bcliff]

So, I just went through the wringer that is PhD applications, and unfortunately did not receive an offer. I reached out to the PI I interviewed with at the one program where I felt I really clicked, and he provided some feedback.

He told me what set the other applicants apart was that they had either a masters degree or "direct testing experience". Unfortunately, deadlines have way passed for masters programs and I, not being a silver spoon child, cannot afford to get into debt for a degree that won't be extremely valuable outside a preparation for grad school context. I'm also not super keen on the idea of sitting on my hands for a year and applying to masters in the fall.

The PI I spoke with emphasized that I was a competitive applicant and to try again next year, as I'd definitely fit in somewhere. My question is, how does one obtain direct neuropsychological testing experience without a masters degree or 2+ years past experience in testing? I've been looking up Psychometrist positions, as he recommended, but it seems like they all require post-bachelors education or experience.

I've been a psychometrst for 3 years with my BS. I spent 18 months working for a private practice, and I will have spent 18 months working with my current lab before starting grad school. I got a lot of testing experience in UG and that experience helped me get a testing job postbacc. I'd suggest reaching out to psychologists in PP and maybe reach out to PIs looking to hire research staff. My PP position got me a lot of testing experience in general, and now I mainly work with neuropsychological testing.

 

[clinneuropsychhopeful2015]

Thank you for the ideas WisNeuro and briarcliff.

Unfortunately, my UG school had next to nothing available as far as testing goes. The best I was able to do in undergrad was shadowing a neuropsychologist, working on a project and publishing a paper involving data from neuropsych tests, and observing a few tests during my UG internship. I don't really have any experience physically administering these tests, and I'm struggling to find a way to get that experience without having already done it during undergrad, or being willing to pay for it in the form of a masters. Bit of a catch-22 eh?

One question about contacting PP psychologists: Do you think these would be more likely volunteer experiences or paid jobs? I'm concerned that if I indicate I'm willing to volunteer, I may lose out on a paid position.

 

[bcliff]

Thank you for the ideas WisNeuro and briarcliff.

Unfortunately, my UG school had next to nothing available as far as testing goes. The best I was able to do in undergrad was shadowing a neuropsychologist, working on a project and publishing a paper involving data from neuropsych tests, and observing a few tests during my UG internship. I don't really have any experience physically administering these tests, and I'm struggling to find a way to get that experience without having already done it during undergrad, or being willing to pay for it in the form of a masters. Bit of a catch-22 eh?

One question about contacting PP psychologists: Do you think these would be more likely volunteer experiences or paid jobs? I'm concerned that if I indicate I'm willing to volunteer, I may lose out on a paid position.

Most of my experience in UG was at a medical school not affiliated with my university, so it's not necessarily impossible.

I started as a volunteer and then was brought on as staff. I spent about a year in that position pre-graduation, then I sent out a lot of emails to psychologists in private practice with my CV asking if they were looking for a psychometrst. I found a full time paid testing position (underpaid though), and like I said, I spent 18 months there. That job let me transition into a much better, full time testing position with the lab that I'm at now.

I think it would be much more common to be offered a volunteer position in a lab rather than a PP, but it likely varies.

 

[yellowpostits]

I work as a clinical research coordinator in a research clinic in the psychiatry dept of a hospital/med school. For some of our research studies I administer neuropsych batteries. It's a small part of the job, but it's something.

 

[CheetahGirl]

I work as a clinical research coordinator in a research clinic in the psychiatry dept of a hospital/med school. For some of our research studies I administer neuropsych batteries. It's a small part of the job, but it's something.

Ditto.

This is how i got my clinical research experience (in an Academic Medical Center, in the biobehavioral science dept). I also got great publishing/dissemination of science/grant writing experience ~ where I was actually paid overtime to stay up til 4am(!), which is awesome if you're interested in academia/scientific research.

 

[PsychBiker]

I had a severe TBI while I was a student which gave me some experience as the recipient of a full neuropsych testing battery.

I do not recommend taking this route, mostly because you cannot really put it on your CV nor count the hours for internship (which really sucks).

 

[psychgirl77]

I also worked as a research assistant in the psychiatry department of a nearby university (not my undergrad). I got to do neuropsych testing and diagnostic interviewing on a research project, and at many of my grad school interviews my POIs seemed to really value this experience. Not to mention it made getting my first practicum easier since I had testing experience. Definitely take a look at psychiatry departments or medical schools, as they often get larger grants and can afford to hire more RAs/psychometrists.

 

[soccercat]

I would see if you can find a job as a research assistant for next year or see if there are labs at colleges local to your home that would take a volunteer RA. I did the former and my husband did the latter. Both of us were able to get extensive testing experience that way post-undergrad.

 

[clinneuropsychhopeful2015]

Thank you everyone for your advice! I'm currently applying for every testing-related RA posting I can find, hoping for anything paid!

Unfortunately, I've spoken with a few Private Practice neuropsychologists and I have come to find that my state has very strict regulations about what students can or cannot do. Unless I am affiliated with a state-approved graduate program, allowing me to test patients or even score tests would mean they would not be able to take Medicare and any private insurance reimbursement would be cut in half.

My fear with a masters program is that, assuming I still cannot get into a PhD program, I will be left with a degree that doesn't prepare me for a career path other than being a "pre-doctoral" student working various short-term RA jobs. Does anyone know if there are Masters programs that are not entirely useless as a terminal degree, that also allow for experience with neuropsych testing and research? From what I can see, at the masters level you must choose between all practice or all research and never the two shall meet.

 

[bcliff]

Thank you everyone for your advice! I'm currently applying for every testing-related RA posting I can find, hoping for anything paid!

Unfortunately, I've spoken with a few Private Practice neuropsychologists and I have come to find that my state has very strict regulations about what students can or cannot do. Unless I am affiliated with a state-approved graduate program, allowing me to test patients or even score tests would mean they would not be able to take Medicare and any private insurance reimbursement would be cut in half.

My fear with a masters program is that, assuming I still cannot get into a PhD program, I will be left with a degree that doesn't prepare me for a career path other than being a "pre-doctoral" student working various short-term RA jobs. Does anyone know if there are Masters programs that are not entirely useless as a terminal degree, that also allow for experience with neuropsych testing and research? From what I can see, at the masters level you must choose between all practice or all research and never the two shall meet.

I think you can become an LPC w/ a clinical psych MA in some states

 

[clinneuropsychhopeful2015]

I think you can become an LPC w/ a clinical psych MA in some states

At least in Jersey, it seems like I'd need to go to a CACREP approved counseling program for that. I was wondering if there was a specific psychology masters degree that prepared you for both grad studies and practice that I may have missed.

 

[bcliff]

At least in Jersey, it seems like I'd need to go to a CACREP approved counseling program for that. I was wondering if there was a specific psychology masters degree that prepared you for both grad studies and practice that I may have missed.

If I were going to get a masters degree, I would have applied to research focused MPH programs. I could have completed a thesis that may have fulfilled my thesis req in a clinical PhD program, and I'd have a viable backup plan in case I still didn't get into clinical PhD programs after graduating. I think most MPH deadlines aren't until June, but I might be mistaken.

 

[Chalupacabra]

I was wondering if there was a specific psychology masters degree that prepared you for both grad studies and practice that I may have missed.

You can practice out of schools with a CAS/CAGS/Ed. S. (different names for the same thing depending upon the state; it's a Master's + 30 or so) in School Psychology. Obviously a very different field from clinical/counseling in many ways, but it may be worth taking some time to investigate if you haven't. That was the route I took in order to bolster my CV and get into doctoral programs when I didn't get in my first time applying back in 2012. School psych programs tend to have a heavy emphasis on cognitive and academic testing (and some offer coursework in neuro as well), which may or may not align with your interests. Plus you could always apply to doctoral programs before you graduate to cut down on time/cost versus completing a three year program.

That said, I don't know how common it is to transfer from school to clinical - I personally stuck with SP for my doctorate because that was always my area of interest.