How to get into medical school with a 2.9 sGPA

[cardio7]

I'm applying a cycle and if I don't get in anywhere I'm going to have to possibly consider it! :/

If you can get your GPA to 3.5 and knock the MCAT out of the water I have a hard time believing that you'll need an SMP. I am really trying to stress that you can do a lot of damage to your academic record if you can't do better in the SMP than you did in undergrad. A 3.5 uGPA with a 3.3 SMP GPA will work against you. It sounds like you're already competitive for DO, so apply to those in addition to MD schools.

It is very difficult to get the 3.7 at Georgetown. These are med classes, and you need to perform among the top 15% of medical students to get an A. No easy points here. There are many other SMPs out there that I've heard are easier (seriously not trying to start a flame war...please). In addition to my success stories, I had colleagues who demolished their academic careers in this program. Buyer beware. I'm not trying to scare you, but I want to present both sides of the argument.

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[cardio7]

I meant it in the sense that the chances of one getting into med school are pretty high after an SMP. There are no guarantees. There's many other factors at play of course.

Chances are high, but never guaranteed. Schools are under no obligation to select you for an interview even if they like your SMP GPA. Poor interview skills or bad ECs can still keep you out, for example.
If you want a guaranteed interview/acceptance according to GPA, I believe that Temple ACMS is one of the few who do this.

 

[stevesteve123]

reverse Michael Jackson transformation

 

[ZedsDed]

Chances are high, but never guaranteed. Schools are under no obligation to select you for an interview even if they like your SMP GPA. Poor interview skills or bad ECs can still keep you out, for example.
If you want a guaranteed interview/acceptance according to GPA, I believe that Temple ACMS is one of the few who do this.

People need to understand that the only thing success in an SMP helps (not including DO SMPs, or programs with linkage) is GPA. If you slip in with a high-20's MCAT, it will still be with you when you leave.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Mind showing some evidence to support this claim? I highly doubt just getting a 3.7 in an SMP guarantees even a low MD or DO school admission.

This kind of thing is not published somewhere like charting outcomes in the match.

Make no mistake, it is very, very difficult to pull a 3.7 in an smp. That means you are far above the mean of their current medical school class. I can tell you from experience that those who did this well in the smp I went not only got in but excelled in medical school.

 

[lmn]

This kind of thing is not published somewhere like charting outcomes in the match.

Make no mistake, it is very, very difficult to pull a 3.7 in an smp. That means you are far above the mean of their current medical school class. I can tell you from experience that those who did this well in the smp I went not only got in but excelled in medical school.

I know it's not published, but it is still a far reach to say it brings you a guaranteed admission to med school.

I agree a 3.7 is challenging, but from what I've seen of SMP's, I don't think it is that nearly as hard as your are stating if you are indeed a capable, and possibly more importantly, a disciplined student. I have yet to see a SMP that is truly as intense as medical school, there are some with very similar classes, but the SMP students always seem to have a lighter load/less things to juggle than med students. I don't know the grading school for SMP's overall, but for at least one I've seen that takes similar classes to the med students, ~90%+ is a considered an A. Getting mostly A's definitely requires very hard work (smarts don't hurt too), but if you gave the med students the extra free time, and the necessity to get A's, I'm not so sure the SMP student's performance would seem as astounding.

I think it is hard to compare how SMP students do in med school compared to their counterparts, you basically can't use anything from preclinical years as evidence since they've likely taken at least some of those same courses in their SMP, which also has the added benefit of lightening up their load in the additional classes to do well in other classes/areas.

All of this in no way is to mean that a 3.7 student from a good SMP won't succeed in medical school, but like I was originally replying, just saying someone got a 3.7 at an SMP in my mind isn't enough to say they are guaranteed admission to an MD program.

 

[Spector1]

Maybe you can try DO school. might be a long shot though

 

[Instatewaiter]

I know it's not published, but it is still a far reach to say it brings you a guaranteed admission to med school.

I agree a 3.7 is challenging, but from what I've seen of SMP's, I don't think it is that nearly as hard as your are stating if you are indeed a capable, and possibly more importantly, a disciplined student. I have yet to see a SMP that is truly as intense as medical school, there are some with very similar classes, but the SMP students always seem to have a lighter load/less things to juggle than med students. I don't know the grading school for SMP's overall, but for at least one I've seen that takes similar classes to the med students, ~90%+ is a considered an A. Getting mostly A's definitely requires very hard work (smarts don't hurt too), but if you gave the med students the extra free time, and the necessity to get A's, I'm not so sure the SMP student's performance would seem as astounding.

I think it is hard to compare how SMP students do in med school compared to their counterparts, you basically can't use anything from preclinical years as evidence since they've likely taken at least some of those same courses in their SMP, which also has the added benefit of lightening up their load in the additional classes to do well in other classes/areas.

All of this in no way is to mean that a 3.7 student from a good SMP won't succeed in medical school, but like I was originally replying, just saying someone got a 3.7 at an SMP in my mind isn't enough to say they are guaranteed admission to an MD program.

So I guess since you have never gone through an SMP you know what's up. And your perspective after a week of your second year medical school also gives you incredible insight. You're fighting with people who have actually gone through these program and also people who have been around the block a little more than you.

Having actually gone through an SMP and through all of medical school and all of residency and the vast majority of fellowship I can tell you that the SMP I did was more difficult than medical school. This sentiment is echoed multiple times here on SDN. The people I went through the SMP with ended up universally in exceptionally competitive programs as they were at the very top of our medical school class. Almost all were AOA and matched into basically whatever they wanted to- multiple Orthos, ophtho, ENT, Neuro at Hopkins, IM at hopkins and duke all from at best a mid-tiered school. This also belies your point that the comparison is unequal as only part of first year is covered in the SMP and first year is basically the least thing important for matching.

Are you gauranteed an acceptance with a 3.7- no. No one is saying that except you. However, even with what most would consider bad undergraduate grades, with a 3.7 in an SMP you are given a serious look by ADcoms. At Georgetown's SMP they report an 85% medical school acceptance rate over 2 years and that includes those people who didn't come close to get that 3.7. Scores equivalent to the top 10% of the medical school class (aka honors) get As and the top 20% (high pass) get A-'s. So you need to be basically within the top quintile of the medical school class to make the grades. Does it really seem that far fetched that people who score there in an SMP wouldn't continue to score there in actual medical school? Both logic and expeirence dictate that it isn't all that far fetched. Med schools know this and SMPs have a pretty reasonable track record

 

[lmn]

So I guess since you have never gone through an SMP you know what's up. And your perspective after a week of your second year medical school also gives you incredible insight. You're fighting with people who have actually gone through these program and also people who have been around the block a little more than you.

Having actually gone through an SMP and through all of medical school and all of residency and the vast majority of fellowship I can tell you that the SMP I did was more difficult than medical school. This sentiment is echoed multiple times here on SDN. The people I went through the SMP with ended up universally in exceptionally competitive programs as they were at the very top of our medical school class. Almost all were AOA and matched into basically whatever they wanted to- multiple Orthos, ophtho, ENT, Neuro at Hopkins, IM at hopkins and duke all from at best a mid-tiered school. This also belies your point that the comparison is unequal as only part of first year is covered in the SMP and first year is basically the least thing important for matching.

Are you gauranteed an acceptance with a 3.7- no. No one is saying that except you. However, even with what most would consider bad undergraduate grades, with a 3.7 in an SMP you are given a serious look by ADcoms. At Georgetown's SMP they report an 85% medical school acceptance rate over 2 years and that includes those people who didn't come close to get that 3.7. Scores equivalent to the top 10% of the medical school class (aka honors) get As and the top 20% (high pass) get A-'s. So you need to be basically within the top quintile of the medical school class to make the grades. Does it really seem that far fetched that people who score there in an SMP wouldn't continue to score there in actual medical school? Both logic and expeirence dictate that it isn't all that far fetched. Med schools know this and SMPs have a pretty reasonable track record

Wow you really seemed to take this personally and go 0 to 60 on hostility huh? Not sure why you are getting so bent out of shape in a simple discussion about SMP where I expressed absolutely zero hostility about SMP students...

To address your points: so you found your SMP very hard and everything else easier afterwards? Honestly congrats, that must've been nice relief. But, you didn't give a single reason why you thought it was more difficult. Which SMP has classes that are so much harder than med school classes? And how in the hell did we get on topic of SMP students matching into great programs, or somehow an SMP being important for matching? I didn't once say SMP students were stupid or that they couldn't go onto match into competitive specialties and good programs, you're taking a comment on how I have yet to see an SMP that is as hard as (or harder) than med school and for some reason extrapolating that into how SMP students can match???

Also why wouldn't you compare SMP to preclinical classes? What SMP is giving courses that are important in the clinical years? Or even 2nd year of med school? If SMP's teach preclinical classes, and primarily basic science (1st year courses), why wouldn't you relate that to 1st year? How does this at all transition to information about how they will do in clinical years, matching, residency, and beyond?

I simply stated that you can't say an SMP student went into med school and did great in their preclinical classes and fairly compare it to their non-SMP med student peers, they have already taken at least some of the classes. So they are taking classes in things they already learned, I would expect them to score significantly higher than their peers who haven't taken those classes. They also should therefore have a huge amount of extra time to study for the courses they haven't taken as well, and theoretically should do better in those as well then. Hell, you could even go as far to say they should have more time to research/etc which could even further their accomplishments compared to their peers. So overall, of course they should do better than their peers that haven't already learned many of those things, but that doesn't necessarily translate to say that they are better students or smarter than their peers and that's why they are doing better. That's literally all I'm saying, you can't accurately compare preclinical grades of SMP and non-SMP students simply because they are basically retaking the classes.

I'm not sure why you have for some reason seemed formed the opinion that I think SMP students are stupid or can't be very successful in med school, but I definitely don't harbor those beliefs, and I don't believe I have said anything to that effect either.. Plenty of my peers and friends are from SMP programs, and they are extremely smart people and for the most part some of the most dedicated, disciplined students in our class. I just wouldn't equate their above average success in preclinical classes to them being better students than anyone else simply because during every block of our year, they had already taken the majority of our most demanding and challenging courses during their SMPs.

Thanks for the interesting information about Georgetown's program. Out of curiosity, how do they run the classes for SMP students? Are each one of the courses just exact replicas of the equivalent med school courses? How does the class loads/other courses of the SMP and georgetown med students compare? If you have experience with this school/program, do you think the med students overall were really working as hard for the top grades as the SMP students? Just from my experience, SMP students really seemed to sweat all the small details so much more than med students on average because their grades matter a lot more than ours. Again, I'm not sure where you are getting this idea that I think SMP students won't/can't succeed in med school. I would say that I think comparing these student's first time through the courses is a better comparison to med student's preclinical grades. Although to be honest, I think there is a lot more of a pressure & motivation to really crush it for SMP students hoping to get into med school vs med students and the fairly common P=MD mentality towards courses, and honestly I don't really know how much that affects things.

Somehow this all ballooned out of me just responding to someone that claimed a 3.7 in an SMP essentially guarantees you entry to med school...

 

[Allopathic2016]

I also graduated from an Ivy with a low GPA. I did a postbacc program for 2 years (39 credits) and received all As, and got accepted to an MD program. Your best bet is to do a postbacc program (not a masters program) to get your GPA up

Do you have an email? Id love to ask you some questions

 

[dreamadream]

Oh how to get in with that GPA...be black or hispanic. No seriously, affirmative action is like that. Maybe 10/1000 chances but one or the other will still get in. Of course with good MCATs and stellar recommendations

 

[Catagebo]

i think its the entire package they look at, not just the GPA

 

[SOMBound13]

i think its the entire package they look at, not just the GPA

Well, in some cases, no. The initial down-selection at many schools is thru filters. Human eyes likely don't even see the apps that don't make it thru that first filter. It wouldn't be unreasonable that for the first filter for non-URM applications to be set for a minimum of, for example, a 3.3 GPA...or even higher.

 

[Goro]

At my school, we reject URMs with GPAs that poor. Med schools do no one any favors by accepting people who are at high risk for failing out.


You reason you see people getting accepts with very poor numbers is that they have most likely bombed their GPA from a poor UG showing, but them redeemed themselves with a great post-bac; yet even acing the post-bac won't have raised the cGPA that much, from the previous damage.

Oh how to get in with that GPA...be black or hispanic. No seriously, affirmative action is like that. Maybe 10/1000 chances but one or the other will still get in. Of course with good MCATs and stellar recommendations

 

[Citygirl44]

Oh how to get in with that GPA...be black or hispanic. No seriously, affirmative action is like that. Maybe 10/1000 chances but one or the other will still get in. Of course with good MCATs and stellar recommendations

Please don't lead people to believe that URM candidates can get in medical school with those type of grades. I don't think that's correct. You don't want to turn this into the other forum, lol. ( you know what I'm talking about).

 

[SOMBound13]

At my school, we reject URMs with GPAs that poor. Med schools do no one any favors by accepting people who are at high risk for failing out.

Of course. I don't think anyone is saying that med schools will accept people with GPAs that are so poor that the individuals are at risk for failing. That would hurt the SOM too much. However, there is nothing wrong with a SOM who wants to better its diversity numbers (either ethnically or regionally) to accept someone with a GPA of, say 3.2, to help those goals, even if they wouldn't accept that person if he/she didn't help their numbers. The 3.2 person isn't likely in danger of flunking out, unless the BCPM grades were specifically uniquely troubled.

And, I agree that when looking at the stats reports and seeing some really low GPAs accepted that there is often more to the story. As you've detailed, those people are likely those who have shown a strong upward trend. From what I've personally seen, there have been some veterans who had lousy grades while attending college for a year or two as 18/19 year olds, but then after serving as medics and maybe maturing, come back and ace their classes. However, their GPAs are still haunted by those early years.

 

[Satire5Texul]

It seems everyone on SDN who did an SMP had a 3.8+. A med school curriculum certainly can't be easy…

The students going in are also particularly aware of their situation. Also tuition increases from 10k to 30k for some people, so a lot of factors go into what makes their good grade. People at one program I observed were so stressed out and crazy about the first test of the semester ,the average ended up being exceedingly high at 90%.

Also OP even if a program requires an MCAT, maybe will qualify that they will take GRE and/or others as well. Heck I would take the DAT and use that to get in before I tainted up and became a MCAT-retake, especially considering a sensitive application about grades. If the program does not allow it, try to contact them and see if they would be willing to consider a GRE.

But undergrad classes to boost GPA,then SMP, then MCAT is the way to go.

 

[dreamadream]

Please don't lead people to believe that URM candidates can get in medical school with those type of grades. I don't think that's correct. You don't want to turn this into the other forum, lol. ( you know what I'm talking about).

Yeah I know, hahaha