HPSP Army: Applying to >1 specialties?

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autumndays

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Hi,

I'm a M3 in Army HPSP and thinking of going into ENT. Knowing how competitive it is and the risk of not matching, I would like some advice re: applying to ENT and Internal Medicine programs. I think I'd be a great fit for both, but I know applying to more than 1 specialty is a major faux pas in the civilian world.

What does the Army think about this? Can I even do it?

Thanks in advance.

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It sounds like you need to read the Army's FYGME letter of instruction (bolded text not mine):

Program Designation - You must submit your ERAS application to all Army FYGME programs that offer training in your specialty goal (consistent with your Army FYGME Preference Priority Form). The ‘Army ERAS Program ID’ worksheet, found under the ‘General Info’ tab of this website, should be used to ensure that you have assigned the appropriate Army specialty programs to your ERAS application.
  1. If there are not five Army programs associated with your specialty goal, then you must submit a transitional program choice before any other additional choices.
So, no. If you apply for ENT, the possibilities are ENT, transitional year, or (highly unlikely) civilian deferment.
 
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I applied for 4 ENT spots and general surgery. I did not apply for a TY year. My application went through just fine, but I did match into ENT, so no telling what might have happened if I hadn't...Civilain deferrments are highly variable in ENT. Some years there are quite a few of them, and applicants are rewarded by being B-level students by not matching into the Army, but still being allowed to apply to civilian spots. However, I certainly wouldn't bet on a deferrment. I would, however, still apply to the civilian match in ENT because if you are deferred, you don't want to be the guy in mid December with no civilian interviews. I scheduled about 12 interviews, actually attended 4 that couldn't be postponed until after the military match, and then cancelled the later ones. I still took the days off of my IM sub-I and cardiology because, well, I had no interest in being there. One thing I have never regretted: missing 3 days of an IM Sub-I. Also, I was able to help out some of my classmates who were also applying ENT by letting them know the exact date and time that I was going to cancel my interview. They were then able to call the program and ask if there were "any available interview slots." Three of them were able to score interviews that way. It's not as ideal as not being offered an interview, but it is better than not interviewing.
 
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I scheduled about 12 interviews, actually attended 4 that couldn't be postponed until after the military match, and then cancelled the later ones.

i did a similar path. cancelling interviews and calling programs i liked to tell them "sorry the army got me" was rather depressing. but it all turned out ok in the end i suppose.

-- your friendly neighborhood drafted too high caveman
 
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Thanks everyone for your input.
@HighPriest Did you apply for ENT and Gen Surg at the same locations? I wonder how much cross-talk there is between different specialties in the same location. I'm guessing it'd be best to be upfront about my intentions?
 
OP if you roll into your interview and tell the PD that you intend to apply to an IM program also, it will put a big damper on your ENT application. PDs want people who are sold out for their specialty. A solution would be to apply ENT only and try to scramble to an IM program later. Last year, only 66% of the IM slots were assigned when the match was complete. Barring that, if ENT doesn't work out and you do a TY, you can always re-apply the following year, and your TY time may count for time in IM.
 
Thanks everyone for your input.
@HighPriest Did you apply for ENT and Gen Surg at the same locations? I wonder how much cross-talk there is between different specialties in the same location. I'm guessing it'd be best to be upfront about my intentions?
I applied to all four Army ENT programs, and so yes there was an overlap with the Gen Surg program. You can be up front about it because everyone understands that you're required to apply to five spots. Since there are only four ENT programs, that means you'll definitely have to apply to something else.
I forgot to mention that one of my colleagues actually didn't match his first time through, so he ended up in his fifth choice (gen Surg). He then reapplied and was picked u for ENT.
 
OP if you roll into your interview and tell the PD that you intend to apply to an IM program also, it will put a big damper on your ENT application. PDs want people who are sold out for their specialty. A solution would be to apply ENT only and try to scramble to an IM program later. Last year, only 66% of the IM slots were assigned when the match was complete. Barring that, if ENT doesn't work out and you do a TY, you can always re-apply the following year, and your TY time may count for time in IM.
This would be true if you applied to a couple of ENT spots and a few IM spots and if you weren't really dedicated to ENT. If you tell them you're ENT through and through, and IM is your backup you'll be ok. But if you aren't completely dedicated to ENT then yes, it will hurt your chances. Truthfully, it will probably mean that you don't match. There are a lot of applicants out there who are a: very good and 2: couldn't imagine doing anything but ENT. Program directors will default to those guys.

But if IM is simply your fifth choice back up, you'll be fine.
 
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Why should the PDs care what your fifth choice is, when they all know that you have to rank five, and there are only four ENT programs? That is also assuming that they get to see the full layout of your rank list.

A few years ago, ENT had a big year, and went 4:1 applicant:acceptance, or something close. A colleague of mine didn't match initially, got TY (his fifth spot), reapplied the next year and got a spot (which is kind of odd, but worked out for him). The downside with doing a TY year was that he had to do a lot of extra material that ENT PGY1s all did as interns, so his GME period was extended by several months. If you are really interested in ENT, at least put a surgery PGY1 (where there is an ENT residency) as your number 5, so you can get more credit when you reapply. If you decide after not matching that IM is really more for you, then see if you can go through the rebuttal process to move from a surgery prelim to a medicine prelim.
 
That is true if you plan to reapply to ENT after a year of IM. Gen Surg would be preferred. But again, as a back up fifth choice, you should be fine. We do a lot of medicine in ENT. No matter how hard we try not to...
 
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I don't think the Army operates preliminary medicine internships, does it? If the OP were to match IM, then he would be signing a continous contract for three years of training. He couldn't accept an ENT contract without breaking his IM one, which is a great way to get on HRC's radar for GMO land.
 
That is true if you plan to reapply to ENT after a year of IM. Gen Surg would be preferred. But again, as a back up fifth choice, you should be fine. We do a lot of medicine in ENT. No matter how hard we try not to...

It gets worse in the civilian world. I could cherry-pick consults on chcs while on active duty and my "hit rate" for surgery was high (probably on the order of 1:2 to 1:3). In private practice when you are willing to see anything at anytime (sure, send that uncomplicated one-time AOM on over - I'll see it and give a IM dose of Rocephin), the hit rate is much lower (maybe 1:5 if lucky).
 
I'm curious to know what happens when you don't rank all the programs in the specialty, for example, 3/4 of the ENT and the rest as IM. Will the application simply not go through? Also, seeing as there are 5 spots to rank, are you required to rank civ deferrment/TY if there are fewer than 5 programs for your specialty? Also, does DoD-Civ Affiliated (think Georgia Regents for EM and radiology) count as civilian deferment?
 
I don't think the Army operates preliminary medicine internships, does it? If the OP were to match IM, then he would be signing a continous contract for three years of training. He couldn't accept an ENT contract without breaking his IM one, which is a great way to get on HRC's radar for GMO land.
That is probably true. But OP says he'd be happy with IM, so that may be acceptable to him. People do change residencies, so it is possible, but not advisable. It'd be easier to go ENT to IM if you had to make a change. In any case, IM would be an acceptable backup as long as you're ok with actually doing IM.
 
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