Army HPSP/Deployments in peace/wartime

[ltm4kc]

Greetings,

I am currently a cadet applying to medical schools this summer and weighing in on whether or not to utilize the HPSP scholarship. I just had a few questions to those who are in medical school with HPSP or those who have already graduated medical school and are currently in the Active Army.

a) What are the summer training exercises like for HPSP students? Is it field training or is it more medicine based?

b) What are deployments like in wartime for any type of doctor? I'm sure it varies for family physicians, ortho surgeons, trauma surgeons, etc., but I was hoping to get a baseline of what it's like?

c) When it's peacetime or your unit is in garrison, are you just a regular physician at a hospital on post (assuming you aren't teaching)?

d) Lastly, do you get a "wish list" of sorts for where you're stationed? Or is it up to the wants and needs of the Army?

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[Red Lobster Actual]

a) What are the summer training exercises like for HPSP students? Is it field training or is it more medicine based?

You go to BOLC summer between MS1 and MS2. According to my buddies...it's 6 weeks of military customs and courtesies plus some field training.

b) What are deployments like in wartime for any type of doctor? I'm sure it varies for family physicians, ortho surgeons, trauma surgeons, etc., but I was hoping to get a baseline of what it's like?

Read through the forum stickies.

c) When it's peacetime or your unit is in garrison, are you just a regular physician at a hospital on post (assuming you aren't teaching)?

If you are a battalion surgeon you'll deploy and stay with your unit. Mostly administrative, some sick call. Otherwise you'll be on a staff tour and working in a hospital like a regular physician. But...read more of this forum.

d) Lastly, do you get a "wish list" of sorts for where you're stationed? Or is it up to the wants and needs of the Army?

You negotiate with a specialty leader but in all honesty it will be the latter. Read the sticky threads on this forum.

 

[Red Lobster Actual]

If you are a cadet...you must take HPSP or go to USUHS, no?

 

[ltm4kc]

If you are a cadet...you must take HPSP or go to USUHS, no?

Not according to what I've been told (but it's from the recruiters so I'm taking it with a grain of salt). If I apply for educational delay and it's granted then I have four years to get a medical degree with or without USUHS/HPSP.

And thank you for your reply!

 

[USArmyHPSP]

Not according to what I've been told (but it's from the recruiters so I'm taking it with a grain of salt). If I apply for educational delay and it's granted then I have four years to get a medical degree with or without USUHS/HPSP. !

@Red Lobster is correct and your recruiter is wrong. Also, be aware that only 2% of the graduating class is allowed to apply for an ed delay for medical school, and you must meet the acceptance criteria for either USUHS or HPSP. Meaning that just because you meet the 2% doesn't mean you'll ultimately be allowed if you don't meet the minimum acceptance/application criteria.

 

[Helpful Troll]

If you are a cadet...you must take HPSP or go to USUHS, no?

AROTC Cadet or USMA Cadet? It does make a difference. AROTC does not require Ed Delay recipients to take the HPSP. They are allowed to 'self fund' Medical School. Check with Cooperdog - I believe he self funded Med School after ROTC.

USMA's website indicates their graduates must take the HPSP/Funded Medical School. However, no one has been able to provide a DOD Instruction, Army Regulation, or MILPER message requiring them to utilize a 'government funded' option increasing their commitment. Anybody have a source for this requirement?

 

[Helpful Troll]

@Red Lobster is correct and your recruiter is wrong. Also, be aware that only 2% of the graduating class is allowed to apply for an ed delay for medical school, and you must meet the acceptance criteria for either USUHS or HPSP. Meaning that just because you meet the 2% doesn't mean you'll ultimately be allowed if you don't meet the minimum acceptance/application criteria.

USArmyHPSP - Does your quote indicate AROTC Cadets on Ed Delay are, or are not, required to take the HPSP if on ED Delay from Army ROTC? If you believe Army ROTC Cadets are required to accept the HPSP scholarship if on ED Delay then please provide a source. I know numerous Army ROTC cadets in Medical School now 'self funded'. Additionally, the annual Letter of Instruction for military residency applications includes this condition, AROTC ED Delay from ROTC, that have to apply for a military residency. However, they are not necessarily on HPSP.

 

[backrow]

AROTC Cadet or USMA Cadet? It does make a difference. AROTC does not require Ed Delay recipients to take the HPSP. They are allowed to 'self fund' Medical School. Check with Cooperdog - I believe he self funded Med School after ROTC.

USMA's website indicates their graduates must take the HPSP/Funded Medical School. However, no one has been able to provide a DOD Instruction, Army Regulation, or MILPER message requiring them to utilize a 'government funded' option increasing their commitment. Anybody have a source for this requirement?

The source is that West Point graduates are on active duty and active duty must follow active duty rules. Want to do something out of the ordinary then you can always apply for waivers from the Secretary. You could always try to resign your commission, pay back the money for an Academy (if they let you), go do whatever you want and then apply to come back on active duty.


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[Helpful Troll]

The source is that West Point graduates are on active duty and active duty must follow active duty rules. Want to do something out of the ordinary then you can always apply for waivers from the Secretary. You could always try to resign your commission, pay back the money for an Academy (if they let you), go do whatever you want and then apply to come back on active duty.
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Thanks backrow - So, there is likely a relevant Regulation, DOD instruction or MilPer Message. West Point graduates are not on AD when on HPSP so the relevant source may be regarding the conditions for temporary release/delay from AD.

 

[USArmyHPSP]

USArmyHPSP - Does your quote indicate AROTC Cadets on Ed Delay are, or are not, required to take the HPSP if on ED Delay from Army ROTC?

You are correct. I saw cadet and immediately assumed that it was USMA. We have ROTC on ed delay every year without being HPSP or USUHS.

 

[backrow]

Thanks backrow - So, there is likely a relevant Regulation, DOD instruction or MilPer Message. West Point graduates are not on AD when on HPSP so the relevant source may be regarding the conditions for temporary release/delay from AD.

Yes, you are correct. Same thing for all the "[insert name here] scholars" programs and those who are allowed to go get masters etc (not sure if Army does the Masters thing, but Navy and AF do).


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[ltm4kc]

You are correct. I saw cadet and immediately assumed that it was USMA. We have ROTC on ed delay every year without being HPSP or USUHS.

My apologies. I absolutely should have clarified.

I am an AROTC cadet majoring in biochemistry with a 3.8 GPA and scoring around a 502-504 on my practice MCATs (I take the actual one next week). I was told that I need at least a 500 on my MCAT with a 125 in each category for HPSP and I'm assuming those are the minimum (as far as scholastic scores are concerned) requirements for USUHS? Granted, if I don't meet that minimum MCAT, I likely won't be accepted into a medical school at all.

From my understanding of the recent messages regarding AROTC cadets, it seems like I can "self fund" if I am accepted into a medical school -- provided I am granted an ed delay. My thoughts were that since we aren't in wartime right now that hopefully educational delays would be given out a little more liberally. However, I realize that this is pretty wishful thinking.

TL;DR: A lot of rambling, but it seems like AROTC cadets have the option of HPSP/USUHS where USMA cadets do not. Am I wrong in thinking this?

Edit: I also do exercise phys research and volunteer at the VA along with other EC's, so my main concern with matriculating next year is my MCAT.

 

[USArmyHPSP]

USUHS has traditionally had slightly higher admission standards than those of HPSP - at least for the Army. Their website (which doesn't seem to have been updated lately) states that the average GPA is 3.6 and 31 on the MCAT old scoring method.

Ed delay is pretty much a crap-shoot. I do know that in the recent past there have been Army physicians sitting on the delay board, with the intent of ensuring that the minimum criteria is met for those who intend on self-funding same as for HPSP or USUHS. In other words there would be no delay for someone with a low GPA or MCAT because after med school they have to apply to the military PGY-1. Those scores weigh heavily toward the granting of delay.

USMA is a special animal but as long as they meet the minimum criteria, they can apply to either HPSP or USUHS.

 

[ltm4kc]

USUHS has traditionally had slightly higher admission standards than those of HPSP - at least for the Army. Their website (which doesn't seem to have been updated lately) states that the average GPA is 3.6 and 31 on the MCAT old scoring method.

Ed delay is pretty much a crap-shoot. I do know that in the recent past there have been Army physicians sitting on the delay board, with the intent of ensuring that the minimum criteria is met for those who intend on self-funding same as for HPSP or USUHS. In other words there would be no delay for someone with a low GPA or MCAT because after med school they have to apply to the military PGY-1. Those scores weigh heavily toward the granting of delay.

USMA is a special animal but as long as they meet the minimum criteria, they can apply to either HPSP or USUHS.

In essence, if I don't get my MCAT score up by the time ed delay decisions come around in the Fall, then I most likely won't be granted delay? That brings me to another question in this process for AROTC cadets. Let's assume I'm not granted ed delay and I assess with my class/commission next year. I've been told that if I find spare time when I'm not busy being the unit's greenest LT to reapply while on active duty, and I am accepted to a program that I will basically have my service time paused and be released to attend medical school and restart my service commitment as a physician.

It sounds like quite the long shot (and quite the roundabout way to being promoted to O-3), but is this actually a thing? Or are people blowing me smoke and getting my hopes up?

 

[Helpful Troll]

In essence, if I don't get my MCAT score up by the time ed delay decisions come around in the Fall, then I most likely won't be granted delay? That brings me to another question in this process for AROTC cadets. Let's assume I'm not granted ed delay and I assess with my class/commission next year. I've been told that if I find spare time when I'm not busy being the unit's greenest LT to reapply while on active duty, and I am accepted to a program that I will basically have my service time paused and be released to attend medical school and restart my service commitment as a physician.

It sounds like quite the long shot (and quite the roundabout way to being promoted to O-3), but is this actually a thing? Or are people blowing me smoke and getting my hopes up?

When are you scheduled to take the MCAT?

 

[ltm4kc]

When are you scheduled to take the MCAT?

Friday May 20th.

 

[Helpful Troll]

In essence, if I don't get my MCAT score up by the time ed delay decisions come around in the Fall, then I most likely won't be granted delay?

You will have your score back June 21 which is plenty of time to determine if you are competitive for ED Delay and Med School. Get off all electronic devices now unless directly related to MCAT studying. Your issue with a later score will be an acceptance to any Med School with a late application. With an Ed Delay you only get one bite at the apple so this is the test that matters.

Two things to consider when completing this process.
1) In Ed Delay and MSIII accessions packet - Use the white space and comments sections to indicate what makes you a competitive Med School applicant. Research, Medical Extracurriculars, clinical and shadowing hours, ....
2) Prewrite some secondaries if you have to attend the new version of LDAC this summer. Find previous secondary prompts and use downtime at Ft Knox to start these with pen and paper. Your life will be busy come August/September trying to get through your final year of academics, Ed Delay packet, ROTC, Med School Apps, and Interviews.

That brings me to another question in this process for AROTC cadets. Let's assume I'm not granted ed delay and I assess with my class/commission next year. I've been told that if I find spare time when I'm not busy being the unit's greenest LT to reapply while on active duty, and I am accepted to a program that I will basically have my service time paused and be released to attend medical school and restart my service commitment as a physician.

It sounds like quite the long shot (and quite the roundabout way to being promoted to O-3), but is this actually a thing? Or are people blowing me smoke and getting my hopes up?

My opinion - People are blowing smoke. Once trained as an LT they will get their pound of flesh in that career field. Maybe someone will 'weigh in' if they know of recent success in getting off of active duty early. If your MCAT won't get you into Ed Delay/Med School then consider accessing to Reserves to allow another year to improve your MCAT and apply early in the next cycle.

Greetings,
I am currently a cadet applying to medical schools this summer and weighing in on whether or not to utilize the HPSP scholarship. I just had a few questions to those who are in medical school with HPSP or those who have already graduated medical school and are currently in the Active Army.
a) What are the summer training exercises like for HPSP students? Is it field training or is it more medicine based?
b) What are deployments like in wartime for any type of doctor? I'm sure it varies for family physicians, ortho surgeons, trauma surgeons, etc., but I was hoping to get a baseline of what it's like?
c) When it's peacetime or your unit is in garrison, are you just a regular physician at a hospital on post (assuming you aren't teaching)?
d) Lastly, do you get a "wish list" of sorts for where you're stationed? Or is it up to the wants and needs of the Army?

These can all be answered after your MCAT via a search.

Hopefully you are applying both MD and DO.

 

[bommer1389]

I had no problem getting released from active duty (though not Army) after 2 years out of the Academy. I deferred acceptance to finish my current assignment so I will be matriculating in 2017.

If you're scoring 502-504 on Kaplan, PR, etc., I recommend trying to relax! These companies are incentivized to deflate your scores for obvious reasons. My score went up 10 points after routinely scoring ~500 on Kaplan practice exams. Use AAMC test sections and AAMC full length test for a real gauge going into the test. You sound like you're ready, though.

 

[ltm4kc]

I had no problem getting released from active duty (though not Army) after 2 years out of the Academy. I deferred acceptance to finish my current assignment so I will be matriculating in 2017.

If you're scoring 502-504 on Kaplan, PR, etc., I recommend trying to relax! These companies are incentivized to deflate your scores for obvious reasons. My score went up 10 points after routinely scoring ~500 on Kaplan practice exams. Use AAMC test sections and AAMC full length test for a real gauge going into the test. You sound like you're ready, though.

Actually, I'm taking my AAMC full length now. I've been getting on here for a few minutes in my breaks in-between. It's looking like this will be my only exposure to electronic devices this week.

And regards to an earlier post about MD/DO schools. I haven't ever shadowed any DO's or had much exposure to them, but there is a DO school pretty close to my hometown where I could go back and shadow some DOs. I know those schools are less competitive, but I need a LOR from a DO, and I feel like now would be too late to shadow and do that. I could be also be wrong, though (pretty frequent phenomena)

Edit: Also, I won't be attending CLC (new LDAC) this summer and will assess at the end of camp next summer. I'll have plenty of time for application stuff this summer, but I'm not sure how next summer will go if I end up being accepted somewhere.

 

[Helpful Troll]

ltm4kc - you've got this! Be ready for detours. Try to fit in DO shadowing in the summer since you're not going to CLC. How the heck did you get out of CLC this summer? Required summer class or injury?

If you're going to CLC after you graduate did your Cadre tell you when you will be accessed for component and branch - with your class this Fall or after CLC? Even if you don't get accessed this Fall with your class graduating in May/June 2017 because you will not have completed CLC, try to complete the Ed Delay packet. It is not submitted electronically. It is a manual packet. There was an EOCC last summer that was added to the Ed Delay list after CLC.

 

[ltm4kc]

ltm4kc - you've got this! Be ready for detours. Try to fit in DO shadowing in the summer since you're not going to CLC. How the heck did you get out of CLC this summer? Required summer class or injury?

If you're going to CLC after you graduate did your Cadre tell you when you will be accessed for component and branch - with your class this Fall or after CLC? Even if you don't get accessed this Fall with your class graduating in May/June 2017 because you will not have completed CLC, try to complete the Ed Delay packet. It is not submitted electronically. It is a manual packet. There was an EOCC last summer that was added to the Ed Delay list after CLC.

Update: I got a 508 (31 on old scale) on my AAMC practice full-length, so I've given up on these tests accurately predicting my score. I'm not assessing until next year after CLC. Our HR person said we can't get started on Ed Delay until I have my MCAT scores, but after those are in I plan on sending up that packet pretty quickly.

 

[notdeadyet]

And regards to an earlier post about MD/DO schools. I haven't ever shadowed any DO's or had much exposure to them, but there is a DO school pretty close to my hometown where I could go back and shadow some DOs. I know those schools are less competitive, but I need a LOR from a DO, and I feel like now would be too late to shadow and do that. I could be also be wrong, though (pretty frequent phenomena)

I'm not a DO, but I was going to apply that route in addition to MD and was worried about the DO letter thing.

I spoke very casually about this with a DO I ran into on a walk and she said I should just set up a shadowing session with her or another DO and most would be happy to write a very basic letter. It isn't a true LOR in which your praises are sung, but it's one in which they say that you observed watching a DO operate and appreciated the unique approach to... yada yada yada. She said the letter from a DO requirement is a very old hoop to jump through and most DOs are happy to accommodate. Just go in with the understanding that this is NOT a substitute for any real LOR. It's just a box to tick.