HPSP- Is it really that bad??

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srs33

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I've been considering the HPSP scholarship for a few weeks now (mostly because of financial reasons) and it seems as if anything I read about the scholarship is negative. People either were lied to by recruiters or had a terrible experience in the military and wish they hadn't taken the scholarship. Is it really as bad as most make it out to be?? Seeing all these negative experiences makes me not even want to apply.

Also, I'll be attending a DO school in August. Is there any sort of preference for MD over DO for residencies through the military?
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srs33 said:
I've been considering the HPSP scholarship for a few weeks now (mostly because of financial reasons) and it seems as if anything I read about the scholarship is negative. People either were lied to by recruiters or had a terrible experience in the military and wish they hadn't taken the scholarship. Is it really as bad as most make it out to be?? Seeing all these negative experiences makes me not even want to apply.
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really as bad or not as bad-- either way the fact people mention issues they do should be at least a reason for you to pause and really critically think about your decision. a common theme you will see is to not do it for just the financial aspects-- those people tend to have the worst goes of it. the forum slants more toward the negative, for probably several different reasons- but the bottom line is you at least have this resource available and will go into the situation with more understanding than many other people do.

srs33 said:
Also, I'll be attending a DO school in August. Is there any sort of preference for MD over DO for residencies through the military?
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this was recently hashed/rehashed in the forum. you should be able to find the thread. basically- no. more detailed- maybe but probably not.

--your friendly neighborhood ye old tymer caveman
 
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Is HPSP that bad, is it really worth it? It's hard to answer these questions because every person's situation is totally unique. In an effort to be helpful, I've devised a formula. It is weighted and biased from my own experiences, so to take it for what it's worth. Answer each question. If your answer is yes, add the corresponding number to your total. If at the end, the number is positive, I would say go for it. If the number is negative, I would think twice. If I could go back in time, my total would be a - 3.

HPSP worth it? Answer these 17 questions and tally up the total. The more positive, the more likely that HPSP is a good fit for you. The more negative the total is, you the more likely HPSP is a bad fit for you.

1. Are you considering HPSP primarily for the money? - 4
2. Is it your dream to be a military officer/physician? + 4
3. Do you anticipate becoming a primary care provider? + 1
4. Do you anticipate becoming a specialist? - 2
5. Have no idea what specialty you’ll choose? - 1
6. Spouse with a demanding career? - 2
7. Interested in flight medicine, dive medicine, etc? + 2
8. Family to support and lots of expenses? + 1
9. Do you view deployment and relocating positively? + 1
10. Do you view deployment and relocating negatively? - 1
11. Interested in academics? - 2
12. Considering fellowship training? - 1
13. Anticipated med school debt $0 – 99K + 1
14. Anticipated med school debt $100 – 199K + 2
15. Anticipated med school debt $200 – 299K + 3
16. Anticipated med school debt $300 – 399K + 4
17. Anticipated med school debt $400 or more + 5
 
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4 years from now when u finish medical school and 3-6 more years after residency every branch, tricameral, and are tactical position is going to be in a very different place from today.

The same overall complaints and pros will still exist- use that powerful Search function.
 
bricktamland said:
Is HPSP that bad, is it really worth it? It's hard to answer these questions because every person's situation is totally unique. In an effort to be helpful, I've devised a formula. It is weighted and biased from my own experiences, so to take it for what it's worth. Answer each question. If your answer is yes, add the corresponding number to your total. If at the end, the number is positive, I would say go for it. If the number is negative, I would think twice. If I could go back in time, my total would be a - 3.

HPSP worth it? Answer these 17 questions and tally up the total. The more positive, the more likely that HPSP is a good fit for you. The more negative the total is, you the more likely HPSP is a bad fit for you.

1. Are you considering HPSP primarily for the money? - 4
2. Is it your dream to be a military officer/physician? + 4
3. Do you anticipate becoming a primary care provider? + 1
4. Do you anticipate becoming a specialist? - 2
5. Have no idea what specialty you’ll choose? - 1
6. Spouse with a demanding career? - 2
7. Interested in flight medicine, dive medicine, etc? + 2
8. Family to support and lots of expenses? + 1
9. Do you view deployment and relocating positively? + 1
10. Do you view deployment and relocating negatively? - 1
11. Interested in academics? - 2
12. Considering fellowship training? - 1
13. Anticipated med school debt $0 – 99K + 1
14. Anticipated med school debt $100 – 199K + 2
15. Anticipated med school debt $200 – 299K + 3
16. Anticipated med school debt $300 – 399K + 4
17. Anticipated med school debt $400 or more + 5
Click to expand...


...I got -7

Thank you for all the responses so far! I definitely still have a lot to think about before making a decision
 
I was +4. Considering that I haven't regretted my decision despite all of the military associated headaches...not bad.
 
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I would argue that if your med school debt totals less than $100K, that's a negative.
 
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OP, it's my contention that unless you were in the military and have worked as medical officer in a line unit prior to medical school you are not capable of making an informed decision about HPSP. It should be noted that docs who are toiling away at the residency of their choice and enjoying training are not on SDN making negative comments, but the negative comments that you read on this site are worth considering. At this point in your career you cannot possibly make decisions now on circumstances that will affect you in 4 years. If you are interested in serving, consider FAP, as this will allow you to enter active duty as a fully trained physician.
 
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For whatever it's worth, I hate the idea of a Ghostbusters reboot more than I hate HPSP.....but I don't think that's saying much....
 
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Individual experiences in military medicine are quite variable. As an example, one of my residency classmates was absolutely miserable at his first duty station as staff. He swore up and down he was getting out at first opportunity. Then he got transferred to a new command and he's loving it and talking about doing the full 20. Of my residency classmates, I think I'm the only one getting out, everyone else seems to be content and is staying in. In large part this may be because of individual command experiences. Where I'm currently stationed, it's a fairly miserable place to practice medicine. This particular command seems to have a very negative effect on retention, the vast majority of docs stationed here, even the ones gung-ho about military medicine when they first arrive, all seem to be desperate to get out of the Navy altogether after a year or two here. Admittedly, I really enjoyed my intership and residency in the Navy. GMO and this tour not so much.

To me, the vicissitudes of military life are more a negative. At this point in my life, I just want some stability. I want to settle down in a place I want to live and go to a job with people I enjoy working with who don't rotate in and out every year.

To the OP, I would really take your "-7" score seriously. I don't mean to say my little quiz is THE definitive method of assessing the value of HPSP, but in this very brief cohort of responses, it seems to have some validity. Your score is pretty low. FAP is probably a better option if you're still considering the military. At least it elimates the uncertainty of specialty choice. Plus, if you end up in a high-paying speciality, then the attractiveness of a military contract drops quite a bit, at least from a monetary standpoint.
 
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bricktamland said:
Is HPSP that bad, is it really worth it? It's hard to answer these questions because every person's situation is totally unique. In an effort to be helpful, I've devised a formula. It is weighted and biased from my own experiences, so to take it for what it's worth. Answer each question. If your answer is yes, add the corresponding number to your total. If at the end, the number is positive, I would say go for it. If the number is negative, I would think twice. If I could go back in time, my total would be a - 3.

HPSP worth it? Answer these 17 questions and tally up the total. The more positive, the more likely that HPSP is a good fit for you. The more negative the total is, you the more likely HPSP is a bad fit for you.

1. Are you considering HPSP primarily for the money? - 4
2. Is it your dream to be a military officer/physician? + 4
3. Do you anticipate becoming a primary care provider? + 1
4. Do you anticipate becoming a specialist? - 2
5. Have no idea what specialty you’ll choose? - 1
6. Spouse with a demanding career? - 2
7. Interested in flight medicine, dive medicine, etc? + 2
8. Family to support and lots of expenses? + 1
9. Do you view deployment and relocating positively? + 1
10. Do you view deployment and relocating negatively? - 1
11. Interested in academics? - 2
12. Considering fellowship training? - 1
13. Anticipated med school debt $0 – 99K + 1
14. Anticipated med school debt $100 – 199K + 2
15. Anticipated med school debt $200 – 299K + 3
16. Anticipated med school debt $300 – 399K + 4
17. Anticipated med school debt $400 or more + 5
Click to expand...

this is genius. for my 15 year SDN anniversary, i would like to work on a scoring system like this people can go to for the inevitable HPSP questioning folks. i remember something similar for picking a specialty.

you hit the broad points for sure- though i agree with previous posters that the scoring does depend on when you take it which may change your score. so if you are pre-med you would have a +/- 5 added to your score or something. previous military experience- +/- 2? or just have different surveys based upon your stage in training.

bricktamland said:
To me, the vicissitudes of military life are more a negative. At this point in my life, I just want some stability. I want to settle down in a place I want to live and go to a job with people I enjoy working with who don't rotate in and out every year.
Click to expand...

as i get older, this slowly filtered its way up my list of important things. civic involvement, school stability, social circles, establishing outside of medicine endeavors-- all of this is hard when you are moving q3-4 years. even moreso now that there seems to be an emphasis on moving people who have "homesteaded" too long.

if i were at a location near family, was guaranteed i wouldn't be moved at 16-17 years to a DCCS position in BFE or an operational tour at 12-14 years or to another duty station entirely "just because" i'd be much more likely to stay. as it is, my tentative plan is to get out and transition to the reserves-- though i still have ample time to think about my options. i'll probably summarize on another post at some point.

--your friendly neighborhood why can't they just make a 15 year retirement caveman
 
bricktamland said:
HPSP worth it? Answer these 17 questions and tally up the total. The more positive, the more likely that HPSP is a good fit for you. The more negative the total is, you the more likely HPSP is a bad fit for you.
Click to expand...

Coming up with a scoring system like this is a great idea. I would split a few of the sections. "Is it your dream to be a military officer/physician?" is actually two questions. My dream is to be a physician, not an officer. Also "deployment and relocating" are two separate issues. I am okay with deploying. It's what I signed up to do. I'm not okay with PCS'ing to a new location just because. And if you're anticipated medical school debt is less than $100,000, then you get -2 points. I'm sure all of the experienced physicians here on SDN could add a few more questions.

Do you want to work strictly clinically (i.e., no administrative tasks)? -2

Also, you could provide a list of currently approved specialties since the HPERB results just came out and compare that to all of the currently accredited fields recognized by the American Board of Medical Specialties.
 
HighPriest said:
I would argue that if your med school debt totals less than $100K, that's a negative.
Click to expand...

Homunculus said:
this is genius. for my 15 year SDN anniversary, i would like to work on a scoring system like this people can go to for the inevitable HPSP questioning folks. i remember something similar for picking a specialty.

you hit the broad points for sure- though i agree with previous posters that the scoring does depend on when you take it which may change your score. so if you are pre-med you would have a +/- 5 added to your score or something. previous military experience- +/- 2? or just have different surveys based upon your stage in training.
Click to expand...

deuist said:
Coming up with a scoring system like this is a great idea. I would split a few of the sections. "Is it your dream to be a military officer/physician?" is actually two questions. My dream is to be a physician, not an officer. Also "deployment and relocating" are two separate issues. I am okay with deploying. It's what I signed up to do. I'm not okay with PCS'ing to a new location just because. And if you're anticipated medical school debt is less than $100,000, then you get -2 points. I'm sure all of the experienced physicians here on SDN could add a few more questions.

Do you want to work strictly clinically (i.e., no administrative tasks)? -2

Also, you could provide a list of currently approved specialties since the HPERB results just came out and compare that to all of the currently accredited fields recognized by the American Board of Medical Specialties.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the positive responses. I hashed out this scoring system pretty quickly so it's kind of a raw idea. I think all your suggestions are great. I've been a dedicated lurker/infrequent poster for many years now, and I've certainly taken note of the frequency with which people seek an answer to, "is HPSP right for me?" It's not an easy question to answer because it's so particular to each individual's unique situation. But I think it's a very valid question because accepting or declining HPSP is a decision with tremendous ramifications. Thus, I do think a scoring system would be helpful for a lot of people. I'll work to improve it with your recommendations, thanks.
 
Based on the questionnaire, do hpsp-ers not specialize? I thought the military didn't stop students from specializing and fellowships
 
srs33 said:
Based on the questionnaire, do hpsp-ers not specialize? I thought the military didn't stop students from specializing and fellowships
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Much more difficult to get fellowship approved in the military. I have known a number of attendings who have gotten out for this very reason (2 of which went to Hopkins and 1 went to Columbia).
 
srs33 said:
Based on the questionnaire, do hpsp-ers not specialize? I thought the military didn't stop students from specializing and fellowships
Click to expand...

"stop" is relative. you can always get out as posters have noted above and test the waters there. i don't totally fault the .mil for this-- after all, it has to be somewhat utilitarian inasmuch they can't have all their IM docs go into nephrology, or their pediatricians go into pulm. i give them a bit of a freebie on the on the back end. on the front end, however, they have a duty to make this clear to applicants and potential applicants. for example-- it is now "policy" that residents complete a utilization tour prior to applying for fellowships. this isn't a concrete rule, but it is supposed to be the new route people take to get to fellowships. nothing new for some specialties like peds, but for IM who is used to straight through training this is a bit jarring, and likely not advertised by your local recruiter.

when we come up with our cosmo style "should you get engaged to Mr. HPSP" this section may sneak up on people. if you are 100% dead set on specializing, especially in something the military doesn't need many of, you are really crapshooting that there will be projected openings for staff (nevermind locations) and approvals for fellowship training. see @Gastrapathy 's post above regarding the central hive mind allowing fellowship starts.

--your friendly neighborhood how can i tell if he's cheating caveman
 
Gastrapathy said:
Good luck!
Are there spots on the bumednote for your desired field?
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Sort of. There's a 2016 spot but no 2017 preselect. Which is kind of an issue since the civilian side started doing a match a couple years ago, and everything filled a month ago. So, if I or anyone else gets the 2016 select, the selectee will need to find a program to offer an unfilled but accredited position, or convince the Navy to roll it to 2017. (There's a program I want to go to that has agreed to hold a 2017 spot outside the match for me, if the Navy lets me go.)
 
pgg said:
Sort of. There's a 2016 spot but no 2017 preselect. Which is kind of an issue since the civilian side started doing a match a couple years ago, and everything filled a month ago. So, if I or anyone else gets the 2016 select, the selectee will need to find a program to offer an unfilled but accredited position, or convince the Navy to roll it to 2017. (There's a program I want to go to that has agreed to hold a 2017 spot outside the match for me, if the Navy lets me go.)
Click to expand...

A friend faced a similar situation and turned it to his advantage. He found a spot for the next year before interviews, let the SL know that he could use the spot if selected and, he thinks, jumped the line.
 
Gastrapathy said:
A friend faced a similar situation and turned it to his advantage. He found a spot for the next year before interviews, let the SL know that he could use the spot if selected and, he thinks, jumped the line.
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I'm actively looking for a 2016 spot for just that reason. One program is attempting to expand their number of fellows right now and if ACGME approves it, the new spot is mine. Lots of variables. I'll get there eventually.

I'm not exactly miserable being a generalist, so the delay is more of an inconvenience than a life-altering ordeal. I suspect that the internist who hates his life and is looking for cards or GI to escape would be less calm about it all.
 
I think it's totally fine and natural to gain an interest because it makes med school "free", but that shouldn't be why you actually commit.

Personally, I decided to commit for other reasons. Isolation from the Obamacare scare, I'd considered enlisting before, how bad can it really be?, etc.
 
bricktamland said:
Is HPSP that bad, is it really worth it? It's hard to answer these questions because every person's situation is totally unique. In an effort to be helpful, I've devised a formula. It is weighted and biased from my own experiences, so to take it for what it's worth. Answer each question. If your answer is yes, add the corresponding number to your total. If at the end, the number is positive, I would say go for it. If the number is negative, I would think twice. If I could go back in time, my total would be a - 3.

HPSP worth it? Answer these 17 questions and tally up the total. The more positive, the more likely that HPSP is a good fit for you. The more negative the total is, you the more likely HPSP is a bad fit for you.

1. Are you considering HPSP primarily for the money? - 4
2. Is it your dream to be a military officer/physician? + 4
3. Do you anticipate becoming a primary care provider? + 1
4. Do you anticipate becoming a specialist? - 2
5. Have no idea what specialty you’ll choose? - 1
6. Spouse with a demanding career? - 2
7. Interested in flight medicine, dive medicine, etc? + 2
8. Family to support and lots of expenses? + 1
9. Do you view deployment and relocating positively? + 1
10. Do you view deployment and relocating negatively? - 1
11. Interested in academics? - 2
12. Considering fellowship training? - 1
13. Anticipated med school debt $0 – 99K + 1
14. Anticipated med school debt $100 – 199K + 2
15. Anticipated med school debt $200 – 299K + 3
16. Anticipated med school debt $300 – 399K + 4
17. Anticipated med school debt $400 or more + 5
Click to expand...
18. Interested in free SDN membership upgrade? +1
 
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pgg said:
One of our urologists told us that reverse cowgirl is the #1 cause of penile fractures. The more you know!
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Was that me? I say that every time I repair one. However, the last two of mine were man on top missionary, and woman on top forwards.
 
pgg said:
The urologist who educated me in this matter is female ... your tag line says "boat boy" so I'd guess not. :)
Click to expand...
Oh, this could lead to a lot of innuendo and comments!
 
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