HPSP is it still like 2006?

[soccermac42]

I have read many negative things about HPSP, but most of them are dated and almost a decade old. Does anyone who has recently graduated have solid advice on it. I want to join the ARMY HPSP. I do want the financial benefits, but I also want to serve my country and have always thought it would be great to be in the army. After being accepted to medical school it is going to be a great endeavor to pay for all that debt. My main concerns are not being able to get married after medical school due to being deployed and moved around a lot, and will the time I spend in the military will I be protected etc. If anyone has any experience and can explain more to me what are the pros and cons of todays HPSP that would be great. Thanks

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[WernickeDO]

The pros and cons mentioned in earlier threads regarding HPSP are still applicable. You could argue that with the signing bonus and the recent increase in medical school tuition that the pros are stronger now than in 2006. That said, most people on this thread would probably agree that the increased money relative to 2006 still does not outweigh the major cons of losing control over your career, GMO tours, limited geography, deployments, not being able to beard out, etc. As I've always said: At this point in your medical career you are not able to make a decision that will affect you and your family a decade from now. If after you graduate and place into a residency of your choosing you still want to serve you can always investigate FAP.

 

[HighPriest]

The threat of a brigade surgeon billet - involuntarily as a subspecialist - is definitely greater now than it has ever been before in the Army. Beyond that, I agree with WernickeDO's statement. Also, less cash flow now - no CME funding of any kind. That's changed as well.

 

[68PGunner]

I have read many negative things about HPSP, but most of them are dated and almost a decade old. Does anyone who has recently graduated have solid advice on it. I want to join the ARMY HPSP. I do want the financial benefits, but I also want to serve my country and have always thought it would be great to be in the army. After being accepted to medical school it is going to be a great endeavor to pay for all that debt. My main concerns are not being able to get married after medical school due to being deployed and moved around a lot, and will the time I spend in the military will I be protected etc. If anyone has any experience and can explain more to me what are the pros and cons of todays HPSP that would be great. Thanks

The pros and cons are still the same. The #1 advice still rings true:

1) If one of your primary factors is about the financial cost of med school, you will regret it big time! The Army will work you to the bone in ridiculous conditions not fit for your normal standard of living.

2) Take the Army HPSP because you want to be in the military and treat soldiers. That's the bottom line. Everything else is straight just noises.

 

[68PGunner]

I have read many negative things about HPSP, but most of them are dated and almost a decade old. Does anyone who has recently graduated have solid advice on it. I want to join the ARMY HPSP. I do want the financial benefits, but I also want to serve my country and have always thought it would be great to be in the army. After being accepted to medical school it is going to be a great endeavor to pay for all that debt. My main concerns are not being able to get married after medical school due to being deployed and moved around a lot, and will the time I spend in the military will I be protected etc. If anyone has any experience and can explain more to me what are the pros and cons of todays HPSP that would be great. Thanks

This is just the propaganda talking. If you can't really further clarify what aspects of the Army that really interest you and urge you to serve, you haven't done your homework. You might not do your job! That's is something that could possibly happen. In the military, you're a military officer first, and a physician second. That's the bottom line.

 

[asdf123g]

The pros and cons mentioned in earlier threads regarding HPSP are still applicable. You could argue that with the signing bonus and the recent increase in medical school tuition that the pros are stronger now than in 2006. That said, most people on this thread would probably agree that the increased money relative to 2006 still does not outweigh the major cons of losing control over your career, GMO tours, limited geography, deployments, not being able to beard out, etc. As I've always said: At this point in your medical career you are not able to make a decision that will affect you and your family a decade from now. If after you graduate and place into a residency of your choosing you still want to serve you can always investigate FAP.

Your face has to be completely shaved everyday? Or it just cant look like ****?

The pros and cons are still the same. The #1 advice still rings true:

1) If one of your primary factors is about the financial cost of med school, you will regret it big time! The Army will work you to the bone in ridiculous conditions not fit for your normal standard of living.
.

Can you elaborate on this???

 

[68PGunner]

Your face has to be completely shaved everyday? Or it just cant look like ****?
Can you elaborate on this???

You will not be in a 40-50 hrs/wk job. Your hours will be closed to 60 hours considering the useless meetings that you have to go through especially as the BDE Surgeon. You will learn to bow down like a loyal pet saying Yes, Sir to orders to your commanding officer regardless of reason and safety. Depending on your commander's discretion, shadowing might be a no-go.

In the field, you will join the enlisted soldiers in the first couple of days setting up the Role 2 hospital. That means unloading 5-6 heavy 500-600 lbs tent soaked with water and sand, and then setting them up. You will join the enlisted soldiers setting up medical emergency supply chests that could easily weigh 40-50 lbs each. For a Role 2 hospital, there are like 20 chests. For some field exercises, you will move to a different location like 3-4 times. That means packing and unpacking your equipment 3-4 times. Everything needs to be packed, unloaded, and reset within 10 hours depending on the mission objectives. You will learn to eat MREs twice a day, forcing you to push out bricks through your anus on a regular basis. On areas where there are no portable toilets, you will dig a hole in the ground and take a dump. For some locations, you will learn to use a WAG bag to properly store and dispose of your feces. You will learn to breath in sand through your mouth and nose especially during a sandstorm, and you will learn to cope with it. Last but not least, you will never look at a regular toilet in the same way again. This is just the surface of what you will be doing. If you are fine with it, the next step is to talk to some HPSP docs. Once you have done these steps and are still hooah about it, your recruiter will help you with your transition to the USA.

 

[soccermac42]

Yeah doesn't really sound like something I want to do. I am becoming a doctor to treat patients not eat sand and be talked down to by someone with less education. Oh well it's not for me. Thanks for the info.

 

[WernickeDO]

Another angel gets her wings...

 

[Shikima]

As long as it's not omlette MREs, I'm GTG.

 

[Red Lobster Actual]

As long as it's not omlette MREs, I'm GTG.

You gotta be kidding...that "flavor" exists?

As long as it's not pork flavored patty in gravy I'm ok. Chili Mac is good.

 

[HighPriest]

Your face has to be completely shaved everyday? Or it just cant look like ****?


Can you elaborate on this???

Is that a joke? You can grow a sweet pederast 'stouche if you want, but otherwise you need to shave. If you're a bad officer like me, you shave every couple of days in residency, but to be honest I shave daily now because I want to present myself as a professional to my patients, regardless of what the Army wants. You also have to keep your haircut in reg, no piercings, no tats on your neck, hands, wrists, and no flashing peace signs, hippie!

 

[HighPriest]

You will not be in a 40-50 hrs/wk job. Your hours will be closed to 60 hours considering the useless meetings that you have to go through especially as the BDE Surgeon. You will learn to bow down like a loyal pet saying Yes, Sir to orders to your commanding officer regardless of reason and safety. Depending on your commander's discretion, shadowing might be a no-go.

In the field, you will join the enlisted soldiers in the first couple of days setting up the Role 2 hospital. That means unloading 5-6 heavy 500-600 lbs tent soaked with water and sand, and then setting them up. You will join the enlisted soldiers setting up medical emergency supply chests that could easily weigh 40-50 lbs each. For a Role 2 hospital, there are like 20 chests. For some field exercises, you will move to a different location like 3-4 times. That means packing and unpacking your equipment 3-4 times. Everything needs to be packed, unloaded, and reset within 10 hours depending on the mission objectives. You will learn to eat MREs twice a day, forcing you to push out bricks through your anus on a regular basis. On areas where there are no portable toilets, you will dig a hole in the ground and take a dump. For some locations, you will learn to use a WAG bag to properly store and dispose of your feces. You will learn to breath in sand through your mouth and nose especially during a sandstorm, and you will learn to cope with it. Last but not least, you will never look at a regular toilet in the same way again. This is just the surface of what you will be doing. If you are fine with it, the next step is to talk to some HPSP docs. Once you have done these steps and are still hooah about it, your recruiter will help you with your transition to the USA.

This may all very well be true while deployed or in an operational slot, but I don't do any of that. By and large most military surgeons work fewer hours than their civilian counterparts. That being said, the standard of living is lower for a variety of other reasons.

 

[HighPriest]

Yeah doesn't really sound like something I want to do. I am becoming a doctor to treat patients not eat sand and be talked down to by someone with less education. Oh well it's not for me. Thanks for the info.

if you don't like being talked down to by the unwashed, uneducated masses, then military life is absolutely not what you need. I cannot stress enough that anyone who feels that part of being a physician is the respect a physician deserves should steer as far away from milmed as possible. If you feel that spending 15 years training to be a highly educated, highly skilled professional who deals with life and death for a living is basically the same thing as a car mechanic, then you might love the military.

 

[Shikima]

You gotta be kidding...that "flavor" exists?

As long as it's not pork flavored patty in gravy I'm ok. Chili Mac is good.

Back in the day, it did.....
Oh God, how horrible it was. As if Satan himself had s*** in the bag.

 

[j4pac]

Yeah...I went to med school starting 2006. Wow that was a rough year. The stipend was absolute crap and I was absolutely scraping by to survive. 2007 came around and all of us HPSPers felt like we were rich. The stipend is now solid...and the signing bonus is nice (I would use it to pay down debt).

The other pros and cons...still exist. If you have a desire to selflessly serve the great men and women of the armed forces...then you will likely not regret your decision. If you go in for any other reason...you will regret it.

 

[Homunculus]

Back in the day, it did.....
Oh God, how horrible it was. As if Satan himself had s*** in the bag.

not even sure satan would have anything to do with that abomination. this coming from someone who would eat pretty much anything.

--your friendly neighborhood still looking for "or something" caveman

 

[pgg]

As long as it's not omlette MREs, I'm GTG.

Don't know if I ever had that one. The worst field food I can remember eating were tray-rat eggs. Packing foam marinated in something yellow. You're better off hungry.

Never understood why breakfast was so hard for them to get right. Or at least tolerable. Most important meal of the day, and all.

 

[wingbowlchamp3]

i graduated med school in 2010 and navy fp residency in 2013. i've been in iwakuni, japan since graduation and i'm looking at extending here to finish my obligation in 2017.

there certainly have been challenges...but if everything plays out the way it looks like it will (which admittedly is still a big if since my extension isn't official right now)...i'll look at my time in the navy as a big win. we'll have spent 4 years in a foreign country i never thought i'd even visit for 4 days. my education was solid and i'm confident the challenges of practicing at a remote duty station have made me a better doctor. financially speaking...i'll have no debt when i leave here with money in the bank. my wife and i just finished paying our student loans from college.

the key for me has been not having any expectations. i was flexible about where i did residency and was lucky enough to get a straight through spot. i let my detailer tell me where to go after residency which is how i ended up in iwakuni. my extension is helping out our clinic by giving us staffing stability as the clinic goes through some major changes.

speaking of the straight through scholarship...this is kind of off topic...but i've experienced people looking down on the fact that i haven't been deployed anywhere. i could make the argument i am forward deployed...but i'm not dumb enough to compare this duty station to being in iraq or afgahnistan. i'm not sure where it comes from. part of it might be jealousy that i didn't have to do a gmo. another part might be an opportunity to look better at the expense of someone else which is an attitude that unfortunately is bred through our rank/promotion system that's inherent in the military. all i know is i worked hard for that contract and continue to work just as hard as everybody else.

 

[asdf123g]

@wingbowlchamp3 do you feel adequately prepared for when you enter the civilian world?

 

[Shikima]

Don't know if I ever had that one. The worst field food I can remember eating were tray-rat eggs. Packing foam marinated in something yellow. You're better off hungry.

Never understood why breakfast was so hard for them to get right. Or at least tolerable. Most important meal of the day, and all.

Give me the oatmeal cookie bar that was sawdust. It was more palatable.

 

[Buzzlightyear33]

i graduated med school in 2010 and navy fp residency in 2013. i've been in iwakuni, japan since graduation and i'm looking at extending here to finish my obligation in 2017.

there certainly have been challenges...but if everything plays out the way it looks like it will (which admittedly is still a big if since my extension isn't official right now)...i'll look at my time in the navy as a big win. we'll have spent 4 years in a foreign country i never thought i'd even visit for 4 days. my education was solid and i'm confident the challenges of practicing at a remote duty station have made me a better doctor. financially speaking...i'll have no debt when i leave here with money in the bank. my wife and i just finished paying our student loans from college.

the key for me has been not having any expectations. i was flexible about where i did residency and was lucky enough to get a straight through spot. i let my detailer tell me where to go after residency which is how i ended up in iwakuni. my extension is helping out our clinic by giving us staffing stability as the clinic goes through some major changes.

speaking of the straight through scholarship...this is kind of off topic...but i've experienced people looking down on the fact that i haven't been deployed anywhere. i could make the argument i am forward deployed...but i'm not dumb enough to compare this duty station to being in iraq or afgahnistan. i'm not sure where it comes from. part of it might be jealousy that i didn't have to do a gmo. another part might be an opportunity to look better at the expense of someone else which is an attitude that unfortunately is bred through our rank/promotion system that's inherent in the military. all i know is i worked hard for that contract and continue to work just as hard as everybody else.

In a military residency, do you still have to do the usual military stuff (early morning PT, formations, going to the field etc) or do they leave you alone and let you work like a civilian resident would?

 

[68PGunner]

Staying in shape in part of being a military doc. If you score high enough on the PT test, you can be exempt from early morning PT. Otherwise, that's a requirement. You won't go to the field during residency. They will baby you during this period. Once you graduate from residency, all bets are off.

 

[HighPriest]

In a military residency, do you still have to do the usual military stuff (early morning PT, formations, going to the field etc) or do they leave you alone and let you work like a civilian resident would?

I never did a single morning of organized PT in my five years of residency, nor do I know a resident who did other than of their own volition. To be honest, most docs never to organized PT with their unit, although there are some BF MTFs where that happens. This in in a clinical setting, mind you, brigade surgeon and GMO aside. Now there is a caveat: you are expected to take and pass PT tests. For some people that's not a problem, they just roll out of bed and pass. For others, it can be a problem when they're not preparing for it by actually doing PT on a regular basis. As a resident, you have little time for PT and no formal time set aside for PT, and yet you are expected to make time yourself. I know a few guys who failed their PT tests and still never did any organized PT. Two in particular never passed a PT test during the entirety of their career. One is now separated, the other is still in the Army. The key point with both of them is that they never got promoted beyond O-3. It really isn't that hard to pass a PT test, however. Just do what you need to do to pass and you won't look like (or actually be) a schmuck. You won't go to the field, save for a week of training early in your residency (at least in the Army), which is C4.

 

[pgg]

In a military residency, do you still have to do the usual military stuff (early morning PT, formations, going to the field etc) or do they leave you alone and let you work like a civilian resident would?

There is nothing "usual military" about the medical corps.

There certainly isn't time for any of that during residency. It might be the most protected and sane time of all. Whatever happens afterwards, I'd say most of us were reasonably happy while in the warm tender womb of medical school and residency.

The fitness test takes a couple hours, twice per year. Random pee tests a couple or three times per year. Figure a couple days' worth of stupid online/computer-based training on suicide awareness and related nonsense over the year. In the Navy, the only mandatory PT for doctors is for the ones who fail the fitness test. No formations ... well, maybe a group photo at graduation. No camping trips or field exercises, except for a week of C4 as an intern. You might get to do a couple weeks worth of humanitarian "deployment" but that kind of thing is fun.

 

[HighPriest]

Random pee tests a couple or three times per year. .

or 13 times in 9 months, which was my last station.

You might get to do a couple weeks worth of humanitarian "deployment" but that kind of thing is fun.

Yeah, that kind of thing sounds fantastic, but is very rare in the Army.