Hungry for McDonald's!!!!! Yum Yum!

[LoudBark]

My med school had a McDonald's in the hospital and it was always packed. Long lines out the door.

My residency hospital also has a McDonald's. Same thing as above.

On the one hand I understand. The hospitals cater to the poor and that is who they are making lots and lots of money off of. But on the other hand.....hospitals promoting McDonald's? Is it like a kickback thing? Keep them fat and diabetic......and they show up to our cath labs?

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[rokshana]

My med school had a McDonald's in the hospital and it was always packed. Long lines out the door.

My residency hospital also has a McDonald's. Same thing as above.

On the one hand I understand. The hospitals cater to the poor and that is who they are making lots and lots of money off of. But on the other hand.....hospitals promoting McDonald's? Is it like a kickback thing? Keep them fat and diabetic......and they show up to our cath labs?

Or the pediatric hospital let the kids decide what kind of restaurant they wanted in the hospital…and the hospital went with the choice of all the sick kids IN the hospital…(true story)

 

[Law2Doc]

If you are going to eat something that might make you sick, what better place to do it than when you are already in a Hospital?

Hospitals want eateries where a family can go get a quick bite while waiting for a Procedure or study on loved one to be completed, and where the staff can run and grab some food in the ten minutes while the OR is getting turned over. And where the nurses and residents can grab food at 2am when they finally come up for air while on call. So we aren't talking about a nice sit down restaurant, we are talking fast food. Yes it's a bit hypocritical to eat the non-healthy stuff, but most of the hospital staff isn't vegan/gluten free/happy heart, so why should the patient dying of the non-operable brain tumor be forced to eat a broccoli and kale salad.

 

[KnuxNole]

My med school had a McDonald's in the hospital and it was always packed. Long lines out the door.

My residency hospital also has a McDonald's. Same thing as above.

On the one hand I understand. The hospitals cater to the poor and that is who they are making lots and lots of money off of. But on the other hand.....hospitals promoting McDonald's? Is it like a kickback thing? Keep them fat and diabetic......and they show up to our cath labs?

Doctors have to eat tooooo ya know!

I love McDonalds, I eat that and BK everytime i get a chance

 

[Top Gun]

My current hospital has a Subway. That's probably a healthier choice than McDonald's or BK.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

My institution banned all fried food and sugary sodas, both in the cafeteria and in the restaurants in the hospital. Also banned all smoking -- there is NO smoking area at all.

 

[sakata8242]

My med school had a McDonald's in the hospital and it was always packed. Long lines out the door.

My residency hospital also has a McDonald's. Same thing as above.

On the one hand I understand. The hospitals cater to the poor and that is who they are making lots and lots of money off of. But on the other hand.....hospitals promoting McDonald's? Is it like a kickback thing? Keep them fat and diabetic......and they show up to our cath labs?

I'm pretty sure most hospitals lose money each time they send indigent patients to the cath lab. Probably has more to do with the fact that these places make money, of which some ends up in the hospital's pocket at the end of the day. And if your patient population is mostly poor or indigent, the cafeteria McDonalds is probably the only way you'll ever make money off them.

 

[Neuronix]

My favorite phrase at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia was: "Do what the doctor tells you, or you're not getting McDonalds!"

I'm glad it was there for other reasons too. It was good after a painful shift with a malignant attending at CHOP or HUP. The frozen yogurt is pretty low cal and the salads are reasonable in the middle of the night when nothing else is open.

 

[DermViser]

Yes it's a bit hypocritical to eat the non-healthy stuff, but most of the hospital staff isn't vegan/gluten free/happy heart, so why should the patient dying of the non-operable brain tumor be forced to eat a broccoli and kale salad.

THIS.

 

[DermViser]

My favorite phrase at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia was: "Do what the doctor tells you, or you're not getting McDonalds!"

I'm glad it was there for other reasons too. It was good after a painful shift with a malignant attending at CHOP or HUP. The frozen yogurt is pretty low cal and the salads are reasonable in the middle of the night when nothing else is open.

Had no idea that there were malignant attendings at CHOP (HUP I believe).

 

[colbgw02]

My institution banned all fried food and sugary sodas, both in the cafeteria and in the restaurants in the hospital. Also banned all smoking -- there is NO smoking area at all.

I had no idea you work in Soviet Russia.

 

[greg1184]

My institution banned all fried food and sugary sodas, both in the cafeteria and in the restaurants in the hospital. Also banned all smoking -- there is NO smoking area at all.

Sounds like Montefiore, which is exactly the same situation.

 

[rokshana]

Sounds like Montefiore, which is exactly the same situation.

and UH and CCF...

 

[Perrotfish]

I had no idea you work in Soviet Russia.

One of the hospitals attached to my school not only banned all that stuff, they also started testing all potential employees for nicotine. No new smokers hired. Then they, no joke, attached Pedometers to all the nurses shoes and tied part of their pay to how many steps they took.

 

[RadOncDoc21]

One of the hospitals attached to my school not only banned all that stuff, they also started testing all potential employees for nicotine. No new smokers hired. Then they, no joke, attached Pedometers to all the nurses shoes and tied part of their pay to how many steps they took.

I'm sure there has to be some kind of discrimination in there... Fat people have rights!

 

[colbgw02]

One of the hospitals attached to my school not only banned all that stuff, they also started testing all potential employees for nicotine. No new smokers hired. Then they, no joke, attached Pedometers to all the nurses shoes and tied part of their pay to how many steps they took.

The pedometer thing is bothersome to me - not because we all couldn't stand to be a little more active - but because it assumes that movement and progress are the same thing.

 

[KnuxNole]

I'd roll my eyes so hard if they banned GOOD food in favor of crap "salads"

 

[atomi]

Ok, this kind of bugs me.

Calories are calories people. It is possible to eat McDonald's every single day and be fit and healthy. People run into trouble with McDonald's and the like because they end up eating 1500 calorie "meals" and feel like they've only eaten half that much. Yes, the food is processed and low in fiber. But in my opinion it is unfairly demonized. There is an entire industry that caters to the same suckers that hate on McDonald's by selling them overpriced, yet usually still very processed and calorie-rich, gluten-free, natural, etc. garbage through Whole Foods and the like.

Everytime I hear somebody hate on McDonalds and compare it to something like smoking I get pretty annoyed. At its core, it's an elitist attitude to mentally separate one from the lower class. I personally don't like most of the food at McDonald's, but I'm not going to try to ban people who do like it from eating it and force them to eat the "kale salad" while I run across the street and smugly chow down my $8 1200 calorie Chiptole burrito made with "fresh" ingredients.

 

[rokshana]

Ok, this kind of bugs me.

Calories are calories people. It is possible to eat McDonald's every single day and be fit and healthy.

watch Supersize Me...
not that i don't agree with the view of big deal that there is a McDs at a hospital…its not like the cafeteria at any given hospital is any healthier.

but should a hospital promote healthier eating…sure…and they should start with their own cafeterias…the food service companies that they use are terrible.

 

[Nidor]

.

 

[Perrotfish]

Ok, this kind of bugs me.

Calories are calories people. It is possible to eat McDonald's every single day and be fit and healthy. People run into trouble with McDonald's and the like because they end up eating 1500 calorie "meals" and feel like they've only eaten half that much. Yes, the food is processed and low in fiber. But in my opinion it is unfairly demonized. There is an entire industry that caters to the same suckers that hate on McDonald's by selling them overpriced, yet usually still very processed and calorie-rich, gluten-free, natural, etc. garbage through Whole Foods and the like.

Everytime I hear somebody hate on McDonalds and compare it to something like smoking I get pretty annoyed. At its core, it's an elitist attitude to mentally separate one from the lower class. I personally don't like most of the food at McDonald's, but I'm not going to try to ban people who do like it from eating it and force them to eat the "kale salad" while I run across the street and smugly chow down my $8 1200 calorie Chiptole burrito made with "fresh" ingredients.

What it is that makes people fat is actually a source of significant debate in the medical literature. The 'calories are calories' attitude is based on the idea that obesity is behavioral. On the other hand there's a significant body of evidence suggesting that obesity is primarily an endocrine problem: that there is something present in our diet (carbs are a popular theory) that is destroying our body's calorie homeostasis in much the same way that people with SIADH/DI have lost their water homeostasis.

It explains a lot of things that the behavioral theory doesn't: why people get fatter as they get older, why rich people tend to be drastically thinner despite having a higher quality of food (despite being as or more likely than the poor to indulge in almost every other bad habit), why people seem to revert to a 'set weight' rapidly when they quit a diet but then gain weight relatively slowly after they hit the set weight, why physical laborers tend to closely parallel the obesity rates in their communities despite burning twice as many calories per day, and why consumption of artificial sweetners (like in diet coke) are strongly associated with obesity.

So, yes, there is an argument that when you eat the burrito it makes you fatter than eating an equivalent number of calories of organic meats and vegetables from whole foods. In fact there's an argument that its worse than just overeating, you are actually permanently breaking you ability to stay thin.

The book 'Why we get fat' is a good intro to some of the controversy on the subject

 

[sonofva]

My med school had a McDonald's in the hospital and it was always packed. Long lines out the door.

My residency hospital also has a McDonald's. Same thing as above.

On the one hand I understand. The hospitals cater to the poor and that is who they are making lots and lots of money off of. But on the other hand.....hospitals promoting McDonald's? Is it like a kickback thing? Keep them fat and diabetic......and they show up to our cath labs?

Dude I just rotated with a doctor who both he and his wife had diabetes and overweight. They both ate mcdonalds at least two meals a day. he would brag all the time that at least he would take the internal contents of two mcmuffins and combine them onto one muffin. this way he was "watching his carbs."

 

[atomi]

watch Supersize Me...
not that i don't agree with the view of big deal that there is a McDs at a hospital…its not like the cafeteria at any given hospital is any healthier.

but should a hospital promote healthier eating…sure…and they should start with their own cafeterias…the food service companies that they use are terrible.

The premise behind supersize me was that every meal was eaten at mcdonalds and was supersized if asked. Imagine drinking 3 42 oz. Cokes a day. That's like 1500 calories alone from fluids. McDonalds makes it easy to overdose on calories.

The 'calories are calories' attitude is based on the idea that obesity is behavioral.

It's a simple math problem. Your cells need a certain amount of glucose. If you intake too much fuel beyond what your body needs, it gets stored as fat. Some people store more or less based on conditioning and genetics. The amount of food per time is also a significant part of the equation (where time is usually measured in days, but one can obviously see that a single 2500 calorie meal each day isn't going to be fully utilized vs. multiple smaller calorie meals). But in the end if you don't take in enough calories, you lose weight. Even if 100% of those calories come from McDonalds. I remember the story of a guy who was convinced he would lose weight by eating only fresh, healthy foods, so he cut out all processed foods. He ended up going from like 300 to 350 lbs. in a few months. Yeah, well that's what happens when you eat 15 oranges a day. Sure, they're healthy.

 

[Perrotfish]

It's a simple math problem. Your cells need a certain amount of glucose. If you intake too much fuel beyond what your body needs, it gets stored as fat. Some people store more or less based on conditioning and genetics. The amount of food per time is also a significant part of the equation (where time is usually measured in days, but one can obviously see that a single 2500 calorie meal each day isn't going to be fully utilized vs. multiple smaller calorie meals). But in the end if you don't take in enough calories, you lose weight. Even if 100% of those calories come from McDonalds.

Yes and no. You can make all the same arguments for SIADH. Water in - water out = net body change in water. If you want to be less fluid overloaded just drink less, or exercise more and sweat it out. Ultimately its everyone's personal responsibility to make sure they're drinking enough water, and not too much. Its a simple math problem.

However we don't say any of those things about SIADH. They're all true, but most of us recognize that we are not consciously regulating our water intake minute to minute. We recognize that we mostly drink when we're thirsty, and if by some chance we drink too much our body gets rid of it without any conscious effort on our part. We realize that anyone who needs to consciously regulate their water intake by consciously tracking it, and who needs to constantly defy a feeling of thirst, has broken the part of their endocrine system that regulates water homeostasis. Finally we know that thirst is a miserable, torturous feeling, and have to fight it constantly to maintain your health a losing battle, which is why most of us feel sympathy rather than annoyance when an SIADH patient comes in with a sodium of 120.

We should feel the same about obesity. Most people historically have not regulated their calories minute to minute, even in the presence of excess calories. You can do that, but like in SIADH it means that there is something in our endocrine system (the insulin-leptin-ghrelin system) that is not working anymore. That subconscious system was supposed to tell you not to eat when you have enough calories, and was supposed to inspire you to move when you had taken in too many calories. You can defy a feeling of hunger, but its a miserable all consuming feeling ad ultimately losing battle for most people. We should be looking at obesity as a disease, rather than as a bad habit. But we don't. We have such a poor understanding of nutrition that most physicians honestly can't even think of a way that eating a corn syrup coated corn and chicken mix deep friend artificially flavored McNugget might have long term endocrine consequences that an equal number of calories of steak and broccoli doesn't have.

 

[smq123]

My institution banned all fried food and sugary sodas, both in the cafeteria and in the restaurants in the hospital. Also banned all smoking -- there is NO smoking area at all.

Apparently, up until a decade or so ago, my residency hospital used to have a cocktail cart. A hospital volunteer would wheel a cart full of cocktails and beer from floor to floor. It was, apparently, wonderful - angry patient? Have a cocktail. Aggressive family member? Have a cocktail. Waiting to speak to the doctor? Have a cocktail while you wait.

 

[RadOncDoc21]

Apparently, up until a decade or so ago, my residency hospital used to have a cocktail cart. A hospital volunteer would wheel a cart full of cocktails and beer from floor to floor. It was, apparently, wonderful - angry patient? Have a cocktail. Aggressive family member? Have a cocktail. Waiting to speak to the doctor? Have a cocktail while you wait.

I truly missed out on the golden era of medicine!

 

[atomi]

Yes and no. You can make all the same arguments for SIADH. Water in - water out = net body change in water. If you want to be less fluid overloaded just drink less, or exercise more and sweat it out. Ultimately its everyone's personal responsibility to make sure they're drinking enough water, and not too much. Its a simple math problem.

However we don't say any of those things about SIADH. They're all true, but most of us recognize that we are not consciously regulating our water intake minute to minute. We recognize that we mostly drink when we're thirsty, and if by some chance we drink too much our body gets rid of it without any conscious effort on our part. We realize that anyone who needs to consciously regulate their water intake by consciously tracking it, and who needs to constantly defy a feeling of thirst, has broken the part of their endocrine system that regulates water homeostasis. Finally we know that thirst is a miserable, torturous feeling, and have to fight it constantly to maintain your health a losing battle, which is why most of us feel sympathy rather than annoyance when an SIADH patient comes in with a sodium of 120.

We should feel the same about obesity. Most people historically have not regulated their calories minute to minute, even in the presence of excess calories. You can do that, but like in SIADH it means that there is something in our endocrine system (the insulin-leptin-ghrelin system) that is not working anymore. That subconscious system was supposed to tell you not to eat when you have enough calories, and was supposed to inspire you to move when you had taken in too many calories. You can defy a feeling of hunger, but its a miserable all consuming feeling ad ultimately losing battle for most people. We should be looking at obesity as a disease, rather than as a bad habit. But we don't. We have such a poor understanding of nutrition that most physicians honestly can't even think of a way that eating a corn syrup coated corn and chicken mix deep friend artificially flavored McNugget might have long term endocrine consequences that an equal number of calories of steak and broccoli doesn't have.

I agree with you that obesity is often a result of habitual eating. More body mass requires more fuel, and to lose that mass invariably requires suffering through hunger. At the same time, I would argue that those who have a true endocrine etiology for their obesity are far in the minority, and that simply by monitoring caloric intake over a 24 hour period is sufficient for weight control for the majority of people vs. a small minority who might have to monitor intake over shorter time periods, which is obviously much more difficult.

 

[Top Gun]

Apparently, up until a decade or so ago, my residency hospital used to have a cocktail cart. A hospital volunteer would wheel a cart full of cocktails and beer from floor to floor. It was, apparently, wonderful - angry patient? Have a cocktail. Aggressive family member? Have a cocktail. Waiting to speak to the doctor? Have a cocktail while you wait.

Right, and patient with acute alcohol withdrawal symptoms? Stat order for cocktail cart!

 

[DermViser]

Then they, no joke, attached Pedometers to all the nurses shoes and tied part of their pay to how many steps they took.

 

[fab4fan]

One of the hospitals attached to my school not only banned all that stuff, they also started testing all potential employees for nicotine. No new smokers hired. Then they, no joke, attached Pedometers to all the nurses shoes and tied part of their pay to how many steps they took.

Crikey...so in addition to trying to get patient care done, they have to worry about doing enough laps around the unit? What happens if they don't walk enough?

 

[Perrotfish]

Crikey...so in addition to trying to get patient care done, they have to worry about doing enough laps around the unit? What happens if they don't walk enough?

A percentage of everyone's pay was tied to various fitness goals. Some amount of 'bonus' for being nicotine free, hitting the pedometer target, etc. The total amount tied to fitness, I remember, was enough that you wouldn't lose your house if you missed the goal but more than enough that no one was blowing it off.

 

[MediCane2006]

Apparently, up until a decade or so ago, my residency hospital used to have a cocktail cart. A hospital volunteer would wheel a cart full of cocktails and beer from floor to floor. It was, apparently, wonderful - angry patient? Have a cocktail. Aggressive family member? Have a cocktail. Waiting to speak to the doctor? Have a cocktail while you wait.

WHAT

Haha.... I'm going to start a campaign to bring back the cocktail cart!

 

[BlondeDocteur]

Various Occupational Health orgs have tried linking pay to specific health/ weight loss goals. Supposedly it saves the employer $$$ in lower insurance payouts for a healthier workforce.

In med school we rotated at Harlem Hospital, which had an in-house McDonald's. Actually it was far, far superior in standards, taste and nutritional content to the independent contractor that was there before.

It is interesting how abysmal our nutrition training is in med school. Besides the basic biochemistry of metabolism and the baseline pathways of the three macronutrients, I can't recall learning much. I am following the low-carb movement and the slow reversal of thought on dietary saturated fat intake with great interest. Apparently sugars- refined and basic starches both- are worse for your heart in terms of coronary artery plaque than a big tub of lard. Serum cholesterol has at most a 5% contribution from diet, the rest being mainly genetics. All interesting, but I'm learning about it basically as a layperson.

 

[KnuxNole]

WHAT

Haha.... I'm going to start a campaign to bring back the cocktail cart!

There should be cocktail carts at physician lounges everywhere

 

[eviorr]

It's hard to ask McDonald's to leave a pediatric hospital when they donate such a huge amount of money to the Ronald McDonald Houses so parents have a place to stay while their children are being treated.

 

[rkaz]

Calories are calories people. It is possible to eat McDonald's every single day and be fit and healthy.

No, the 'calorie is a calorie' theory is outdated. 1500 calories a day of organic vegetables, fruits, legumes, nuts, gluten-free whole grains, etc is NOT the same as eating 1500 calories a day of processed burgers, fries, sugary cereals, artificially-sweetened beverages. The former is healing for the body while the latter causes significant inflammation and degeneration to the body. Just because you can stay slim eating reduced calorie doesn't really tell us anything about what is going on inside our bodies with the kinds of food that we eat. Furthermore, people who diet by eating low quality crap food are not giving their bodies adequate nutrition, and I'd surmise that those people would be more likely to regain their weight after they stop being able to white-knuckle their way through reduced portions, and go back to old ways of eating larger portions. Giving good wholesome unprocessed food to your body is the way to nourish yourself and actually be healthy.... not by eating McDonalds, at least not the McDonald's food that I see people eat.

Additionally, fit doesn't necessarily mean healthy. Of course, being excessively overweight is definitely unhealthy. (This is not an aesthetic issue, nor any issue to discriminate a person on, but we do know that fat, especially visceral fat, causes significant inflammation and insulin resistance.) But just because someone is in shape, if they are slim by eating portion-controlled crap food (like the diet sodas, processed food etc), that is definitely not healthy. When a person is young, he/she can still look good externally if he/she is in shape, even if he/she eats crap. However, that kind of garbage food is still aging a person internally and causing degeneration, cancer, atherosclerosis etc.

 

[rkaz]

OP, my view is that hospitals have a responsibility to provide patients HEALTHY food.

I've often heard people throwing around the static that 70% of diseases are caused by lifestyle. So I guess that means that around 30% are caused by genetic factors, environmental factors, trauma, etc. However, there is increasing research showing that our genetics factor and which genes get turned on our not can often be traced back to our own diet and lifestyle as well as our parents' diet and lifestyle (affecting the genes that are expressed at our conception as well as in the in-utero environment). So even that so-called 30% of non-lifestyle disease factors are actually lifestyle if they are a result of our parents' lifestyle.

Giving people medicine is not the only way we need to help them. What we feed them is a part of their treatment plan (at least it SHOULD be). That kale and broccoli salad is what our bodies recognize as FOOD at not the onslaught of chemicals that we like to give ourselves. As a new resident, I'd actually wish I could find an organic kale and broccoli salad at the hospitals that I'll be working at, instead of all that junk. Patients deserve the same.

As far as the comment about the terminally-ill patient being 'forced' to eat that, well, I'm not saying that he couldn't request junk food if he wanted to. But I definitely don't agree that junk food should be routinely given at hospitals. It should be the opposite, where food is healthy, and you have to special request junk. Even the cardiac diets aren't healthy. It doesn't make sense for a post-MI patient to be eating such garbage in the hospital, when that sort of food led him to his condition in the first place.

I struggled with obesity for many years, and have finally found the answers to my own issues, so nutrition is something I'm very passionate about.

 

[Shikima]

No, the 'calorie is a calorie' theory is outdated. 1500 calories a day of organic vegetables, fruits, legumes, nuts, gluten-free whole grains, etc is NOT the same as eating 1500 calories a day of processed burgers, fries, sugary cereals, artificially-sweetened beverages. The former is healing for the body while the latter causes significant inflammation and degeneration to the body. Just because you can stay slim eating reduced calorie doesn't really tell us anything about what is going on inside our bodies with the kinds of food that we eat. Furthermore, people who diet by eating low quality crap food are not giving their bodies adequate nutrition, and I'd surmise that those people would be more likely to regain their weight after they stop being able to white-knuckle their way through reduced portions, and go back to old ways of eating larger portions. Giving good wholesome unprocessed food to your body is the way to nourish yourself and actually be healthy.... not by eating McDonalds, at least not the McDonald's food that I see people eat.

Additionally, fit doesn't necessarily mean healthy. Of course, being excessively overweight is definitely unhealthy. (This is not an aesthetic issue, nor any issue to discriminate a person on, but we do know that fat, especially visceral fat, causes significant inflammation and insulin resistance.) But just because someone is in shape, if they are slim by eating portion-controlled crap food (like the diet sodas, processed food etc), that is definitely not healthy. When a person is young, he/she can still look good externally if he/she is in shape, even if he/she eats crap. However, that kind of garbage food is still aging a person internally and causing degeneration, cancer, atherosclerosis etc.

Is there a different, whole foods, upscale with organic ingredients McDonald's that I'm unaware of?

 

[el_duderino]

There's nothing wrong with McDonald's. Their ground beef is.. ground beef. Their salads have fresh lettuce, spinach, tomatoes, etc. They don't put any magic killer ingredients in the buns that aren't in the buns you buy at the grocery.

 

[el_duderino]

Here's an interesting data point: almost all of the sandwiches at Panera have more calories and sodium than a Big Mac. Go figure.

 

[rkaz]

Is there a different, whole foods, upscale with organic ingredients McDonald's that I'm unaware of?

Hmm... that's not what I was saying. What I mean to say was that I haven't checked out McDonald's menu in a very long time, so if they have some new healthier options then I'm not too aware of it -- though in the past, McDonalds was anything but healthy. I think about 1.5 year ago or so, I made a pit stop in a McDonalds and I believe they had some sort of oatmeal thing that I picked up in a rush (as I was traveling and didn't have too many options). I had to custom order to request plain oatmeal without any sugar or milk. So I suppose that a person can make a somewhat-healthier choice if they do customizations on food. But I wasn't impressed with the menu the last time I looked.

 

[el_duderino]

Hmm... that's not what I was saying. What I mean to say was that I haven't checked out McDonald's menu in a very long time, so if they have some new healthier options then I'm not too aware of it -- though in the past, McDonalds was anything but healthy. I think about 1.5 year ago or so, I made a pit stop in a McDonalds and I believe they had some sort of oatmeal thing that I picked up in a rush (as I was traveling and didn't have too many options). I had to custom order to request plain oatmeal without any sugar or milk. So I suppose that a person can make a somewhat-healthier choice if they do customizations on food. But I wasn't impressed with the menu the last time I looked.

No individual food is inherently unhealthy unless it contains poison or something. There's nothing simply "unhealthy" about a McD's hamburger - 0r, for that matter, a grilled chicken sandwich, a salad, a coffee, an Egg McMuffin, etc. A diet is healthy if it meets the nutritional requirements of the individual and doesn't contain any items that directly harm said individual.

 

[rkaz]

Here's an interesting data point: almost all of the sandwiches at Panera have more calories and sodium than a Big Mac. Go figure.

It. is. not. about. calories. It's about food giving us nourishment.

I don't know why we are so gung-ho about the idea of calories = healthiness of food. If that was the case, then have your neurotoxic aspartame-loaded diet soda and call it a health food.

 

[el_duderino]

neurotoxic aspartame

I believe we are leaving the realms of science and evidence, unfortunately. I'll just drop one of my favorite quotes and bow out:

"Unfortunately, research-based refutation of fear mongering tends to be ineffective as those who are most prone to succumbing to such in the first place are also the least likely to apply critical thinking." -Wonderpug

 

[rkaz]

No individual food is inherently unhealthy unless it contains poison or something. There's nothing simply "unhealthy" about a McD's hamburger - 0r, for that matter, a grilled chicken sandwich, a salad, a coffee, an Egg McMuffin, etc. A diet is healthy if it meets the nutritional requirements of the individual and doesn't contain any items that directly harm said individual.

Well, then we just don't see eye-to-eye on this. If something causes inflammation and atherosclerosis in my body, then I consider it an unhealthy food. Inflammation has been linked to depression, arthritis and a whole host of other conditions. It doesn't have to contain cyanide for me to not want to eat it.

 

[rkaz]

I believe we are leaving the realms of science and evidence, unfortunately. I'll just drop one of my favorite quotes and bow out:

"Unfortunately, research-based refutation of fear mongering tends to be ineffective as those who are most prone to succumbing to such in the first place are also the least likely to apply critical thinking." -Wonderpug

I'm really not interested in getting into a heated discussion with anyone... that's just not my nature. However, everything I'm writing about is based in science, not voodoo. You can check out the science between aspartame and health conditions yourself on PubMed. Start here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=aspartame+toxicity

As physicians (or future physician-to-be) as you are, it's important for all of us to educate ourselves on the latest nutrition research. Not only to help ourselves but to help our patients, as many patients come to physicians for nutrition advice, despite the fact that our training in nutrition is minimal. Since nutrition is such a important determinant to disease, and in many cases can even help patients long-term more than our medications, we need to be properly informed.

Edit: added a better pubmed link

 

[rokshana]

Well, then we just don't see eye-to-eye on this. If something causes inflammation and atherosclerosis in my body, then I consider it an unhealthy food. Inflammation has been linked to depression, arthritis and a whole host of other conditions. It doesn't have to contain cyanide for me to not want to eat it.

you are verging on the edge of going down the path of the veggienazis that you see posting all over the place about the quality of the food and that all the boxed, canned, processed foods are inherently bad for you….

30 years ago butter was was touted as a saturated fat and it was BAD FOR YOU so much better for you to eat Unsaturated fats like margarine, but healthier for your….chocolate is just candy and it was BAD FOR YOU…
now, of course butter is natural and MUCH better for you than the hydrogenated unsaturated fats found in margarine and chocolate has all sorts of antioxidant properties….just because something is published touting either the health benefits or the dangers doesn't mean that at some point opinions won't change...

and as a new intern, you need to realize the hipster frou frou ideals about food are not gonna be something your indigent and poor patients are going to afford…sure many eat fast food cuz they are too lazy to cook or its just convenient or they like it…but guess what? many eat it because its what they can afford…a nice fresh healthy apple cost over a dollar…that same dollar will get you a double cheeseburger off of the dollar menu…which do you think fills a person up more? We as physicians need to realize that some people can't afford fresh produce, or cage free eggs…and that finding ways for them to improve their diets may require some compromises…for example frozen foods can be as nutritious as fresh foods and are generally cheaper.

( and just you wait to your intern year…lets see how excited you are to come home after 12-14 hours at the hospital to make dinner or how much time you have to get lunch during the day…eating habits crap out intern year…).

a calorie IS a calorie IS a calorie…the organic cruelty free carrot calorie is processed the same way as the calorie in the lettuce of the big mac form Mickey Ds...

 

[KnuxNole]

Eww veggies

Mcdonalds >>> whole food mumbo jumbo

 

[rkaz]

you are verging on the edge of going down the path of the veggienazis that you see posting all over the place about the quality of the food and that all the boxed, canned, processed foods are inherently bad for you….

Well, based on your comment of 'veggienazis', I take it that you are not a vegetarian. However, you are attacking the messenger not the issue - as calling them names doesn't state why they are wrong about processed foods being bad for us. Yes, I am a vegetarian also. But I wasn't even bringing that issue up at this point. Being a vegetarian or not doesn't have anything to do with the issue of processed foods on health, as that just seems like an ad hominem statement.

3 years ago butter was was touted as a saturated fat and it was BAD FOR YOU so much better for you to eat Unsaturated fats like margarine, but healthier for your….chocolate is just candy and it was BAD FOR YOU…
now, of course butter is natural and MUCH better for you than the hydrogenated unsaturated fats found in margarine and chocolate has all sorts of antioxidant properties….just because something is published touting either the health benefits or the dangers doesn't mean that at some point opinions won't change...

Butter is definitely better for you than margarine, as margarine is a processed food. Even I agree with that. I try to avoid both in general (as I try to avoid both animal foods as well as processed foods), but I would still encourage patients to choose butter over margarine. My personal views of avoiding animal products aren't conflicting with wanting to teach my patients about healthier choices.

As far as chocolate goes, it's the cacao bean which has significant antioxidant properties, which makes it a healthier choice for us... though the added milk and sugar neutralizes the health benefit (as these are pro-inflammatory). That's why it's not chocolate as a whole that the health experts are advocating, but rather chocolate with at least 70%+ cocoa - to get more cacao bean and less of the other junk.

and as a new intern, you need to realize the hipster frou frou ideals about food are not gonna be something your indigent and poor patients are going to afford…sure many eat fast food cuz they are too lazy to cook or its just convenient or they like it…but guess what? many eat it cuz its what they can afford…a nice fresh healthy apple cost over a dollar…that same dollar will get you a double cheeseburger off of the dollar menu…which do you think fills a person up more? We as physicians need to realize that some people can't afford fresh produce, or cage free eggs…and that finding ways for them to improve their diets may require some compromises…for example frozen foods can be as nutritious as fresh foods and are generally cheaper.

I agree that there are social and economic reasons for people to eat unhealthy food. But the social and economic reasons are separate from the health issues. It's known that the meat and dairy industries are heavily subsidized by the government, while there isn't much economic support for fruit and vegetables (not to speak of organically-grown). That's why fruit and vegetables seem relatively more expensive. If there were no meat and dairy subsidies, the price of a burger would be a whole lot more than it is now... and no one would be complaining of the cost of an apple. Processed foods are surely cheaper as they are shelf-stable, and sadly our bodies pay the price long-term for these eating habits.

( and just you wait to your intern year…lets see how excited you are to come home after 12-14 hours at the hospital to make dinner or how much time you have to get lunch during the day…eating habits crap out intern year…).

I am a bit worried about the demands of intern year, of course - as I don't want to fall back into bad habits, as I've made huge strides to change my health around. Luckily I'm going into a specialty that is more resident-friendly, but I'm passionately determined to not fall back into unhealthy ways... I will definitely do my best. But I don't see how the demands of intern year have anything to do with the point I am making. In fact, if the hospitals did have more of those kale-and-broccoli salads as I wish they did, then it would make it a LOT easier for me to stay on track. It's too bad that there is so much junk in hospital cafeterias, which relegates me more and more to strictly the salad bar, which is kinda sad as I'd prefer more healthy variety.

 

[el_duderino]

Oh dear.