I agree with Devitz who insist that LCME will take over COCA

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MUSCULOSKELETAL23

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The thread I started mainly talks about residency aspect.
Why Dont we discuss the most important issue? Do you all think LCME will ask merger in undergraduate medical education?? I think so and I truly Believe so
I am an osteopathic graduate but I am sure future students will be affected by this more. Will there be the days that all D.Os become grandfathered into M.Ds by paying fines to practice medicines like it happened in california(western COMP vs UC Davis)??
I really have no opinion per se. But I am curious about the opinions from the osteopathic communities
Please do not start the war between MD vs DO

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Isn't there another thread up here with the same title more or less? Gevitz's speech was more of a "this leads to this which leads to this which leads to this and finally to this" kind of thing. It is very much possible but unlikely the "friendly offer" will come in the next 5 years.
 
Do you all think LCME will ask merger in undergraduate medical education?? I think so and I truly Believe so

Why do you think this?

I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing, but let's hear your argument past just believing so.
 
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I don't see it happening any time soon. 28% DO representation is enough to keep that from happening. The only argument Gevitz presents is that MDs will take to the media and force DOs. This is ludicrous.
 
I don't see it happening any time soon. 28% DO representation is enough to keep that from happening. The only argument Gevitz presents is that MDs will take to the media and force DOs. This is ludicrous.

That's 28 % on the ACGME board. The LCME does not have a DO presence.


Anywho, I think that it's inevitable that the LCME will follow suit and begin to become the accrediting body for osteopathic medical schools as well. Personally, I think it's a good move on their part and I believe that the LCME will allow the continued existence of osteopathy and the D.O degree simply under their supervision.

Obviously many of the old guard will consider anything that stifles DO expansion, removes power from the AOA or osteopathic leaders to be the beginning of the end of generally an awful thing. I think that it probably will do the profession more good to have an organization that looks after us and not one that actually allowed a school like the nursing health education center to even humor the idea of a DO school.
 
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That's 28 % on the ACGME board. The LCME does not have a DO presence.


Anywho, I think that it's inevitable that the LCME will follow suit and begin to become the accrediting body for osteopathic medical schools as well. Personally, I think it's a good move on their part and I believe that the LCME will allow the continued existence of osteopathy and the D.O degree simply under their supervision.

Obviously many of the old guard will consider anything that stifles DO expansion, removes power from the AOA or osteopathic leaders to be the beginning of the end of generally an awful thing. I think that it probably will do the profession more good to have an organization that looks after us and not one that actually allowed a school like the nursing health education center to even humor the idea of a DO school.
LCME has no vested interest in absorbing the schools. If anything, it would cost them money to do so. The residency merger is basically buying the residencies because they project a shortage for MD students. I don't see how that will translate into LCME absorbing COCA.
 
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LCME has no vested interest in absorbing the schools. If anything, it would cost them money to do so. The residency merger is basically buying the residencies because they project a shortage for MD students. I don't see how that will translate into LCME absorbing COCA.

Largely because the merger was quazi-sanctioned by the federal government. The government essentially said they only wanted one medical residency system. Chance are it won't be longer until it says lets do the same with undergrad education.
 
The thread I started mainly talks about residency aspect.
Why Dont we discuss the most important issue? Do you all think LCME will ask merger in undergraduate medical education?? I think so and I truly Believe so
I am an osteopathic graduate but I am sure future students will be affected by this more. Will there be the days that all D.Os become grandfathered into M.Ds by paying fines to practice medicines like it happened in california(western COMP vs UC Davis)??
I really have no opinion per se. But I am curious about the opinions from the osteopathic communities
Please do not start the war between MD vs DO

No.
And as someone with their hands in the AMA medical education cookie jar, let me assure you of this: The LCME (as currently constructed) has exactly ZERO interest in doing this at any point in the foreseeable future.

Now if you want to say that if every current LCME leader steps down and if every new person elected has a 180 degree different stanceon the matter, then you can go ahead and postulate. Im going to put it into the category of "total non-issue" until I see people with different opinions in charge.
 
Largely because the merger was quazi-sanctioned by the federal government. The government essentially said they only wanted one medical residency system. Chance are it won't be longer until it says lets do the same with undergrad education.

nah. government sort of liked the two group system. Im sure there were detractors a-plenty. But generally speaking the AOA was a federal government darling because it created residencies that didnt exist before, which the statisticians loved.
 
The thread I started mainly talks about residency aspect.
Why Dont we discuss the most important issue? Do you all think LCME will ask merger in undergraduate medical education?? I think so and I truly Believe so
I am an osteopathic graduate but I am sure future students will be affected by this more. Will there be the days that all D.Os become grandfathered into M.Ds by paying fines to practice medicines like it happened in california(western COMP vs UC Davis)??
I really have no opinion per se. But I am curious about the opinions from the osteopathic communities
Please do not start the war between MD vs DO

Forgive me for finding it very difficult to believe you are a resident.

However, to play along. Maybe my blame is misdirected/informed, but COCA is a very big reason we have tons of DO grads and insufficient OGME slots.

If schools had spent more time developing quality than expanding and spreading faster than shigella in a daycare this whole situation may not have even developed. But I'm glad it did. :)
 
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Forgive me for finding it very difficult to believe you are a resident.

However, to play along. Maybe my blame is misdirected/informed, but COCA is a very big reason we have tons of DO grads and insufficient OGME slots.

If schools had spent more time developing quality than expanding and spreading faster than shigella in a daycare this whole situation may not have even developed. But I'm glad it did. :)
...but there are plenty of TRIs and FM spots in the middle of nowhere that goes unfilled every year... [/sarcasm]
 
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People are missing the point of the merger, which does go back to fellowship. We can talk about how it will affect residency, and possible motives for it, but if you read the statements and listen to people who know the process (which yes I have done, our dean spoke to us twice), you know it was due to worries of AOA graduates being shafted from fellowship. Why would the ACGME care about altering AOA residency, unless it benefited them, which it will when AOA residents go into a ACGME fellowship. What in the world would be the ACGME's motive for adopting/changing osteopathic medical school education?

I think most of the people who talk about this, are those that are "worried" about osteopathic medicine being lost due to the M.D.s taking over everything. It's a little ridiculous.
 
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Forgive me for finding it very difficult to believe you are a resident.

However, to play along. Maybe my blame is misdirected/informed, but COCA is a very big reason we have tons of DO grads and insufficient OGME slots.

If schools had spent more time developing quality than expanding and spreading faster than shigella in a daycare this whole situation may not have even developed. But I'm glad it did. :)
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Hahah who do you think you are?? Insufficient OGME slots?? There are so many TRI programs out there for bunch scramblers?? Do you think It is easy to find spots after TRI. OGME slots are sufficient,

Do I think that DO professions will vanish?? heck yes. LCMEs and ACGME can get so many benefits from the merger. First of all it is all about money. under ACGME, nobody will take Osteopathic Boards and ACGME IM boards can take all straight up money from DOs who register (whether residencies pay or residents pay who cares??). on the top of that, imagine all DOs have to take USMLEs??

please understand the concept "merger". Once the concept of merging between DOs and MDs of anything appears, the concept "merger" itself can branch out to so many ideas. Yes there will be resistance from the osteo world. but look at the reality and the hidden truth. why so many DOs apply to ACGME residencies?? why why why?? because medical professionals want to be associated with the mainstream. It is natural human tendency to join the mainstream in the field of medicine. In the field of science, there have been so many minor/impossible thoughts that changed the world(for example everyone thought the earth was flat) However, can DOs prove OMM efficacies and Can DOs prove OMM as the cornerstone treatment of MSK and somatic dysfunction?? Can DOs prove that OMM decrease the hospital stays for patients with Pneumonia??I do not want to sound tool bag but I think OMMs are efficacious among inpatients. However, Many DO studies come with selection biases. most studies are done in osteopathic hospitals. even if OMM has become much recognitions in the world, it will the MDs who will absorb DOs distinctiveness. For example, acupunctures were done by oriental medicine folks and acupuncturists?? Acupuncture has gotten public recognitions. Guess what, There are many MDs who are doing acupunctures. Do you understand what I am saying?? MDs can mold into anything and can absorb anything that even appeared to look like BS alternative medicine.
 
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Hahah who do you think you are?? Insufficient OGME slots?? There are so many TRI programs out there for bunch scramblers?? Do you think It is easy to find spots after TRI. OGME slots are sufficient,

Do I think that DO professions will vanish?? heck yes. LCMEs and ACGME can get so many benefits from the merger. First of all it is all about money. under ACGME, nobody will take Osteopathic Boards and ACGME IM boards can take all straight up money from DOs who register (whether residencies pay or residents pay who cares??). on the top of that, imagine all DOs have to take USMLEs??

please understand the concept "merger". Once the concept of merging between DOs and MDs of anything appears, the concept "merger" itself can branch out to so many ideas. Yes there will be resistance from the osteo world. but look at the reality and the hidden truth. why so many DOs apply to ACGME residencies?? why why why?? because medical professionals want to be associated with the mainstream. It is natural human tendency to join the mainstream in the field of medicine. In the field of science, there have been so many minor/impossible thoughts that changed the world(for example everyone thought the earth was flat) However, can DOs prove OMM efficacies and Can DOs prove OMM as the cornerstone treatment of MSK and somatic dysfunction?? Can DOs prove that OMM decrease the hospital stays for patients with Pneumonia??I do not want to sound tool bag but I think OMMs are efficacious among inpatients. However, Many DO studies come with selection biases. most studies are done in osteopathic hospitals. even if OMM has become much recognitions in the world, it will the MDs who will absorb DOs distinctiveness. For example, acupunctures were done by oriental medicine folks and acupuncturists?? Acupuncture has gotten public recognitions. Guess what, There are many MDs who are doing acupunctures. Do you understand what I am saying?? MDs can mold into anything and can absorb anything that even appeared to look like BS alternative medicine.
Not buying that you're a resident. Too much obvious ignorance.
 
whoever uses the ID aka Glow in the Dark seems very useless and one of those folks just cruising SDN without thinking.

Glow in the Dark mentioned that "
""However, to play along. Maybe my blame is misdirected/informed, but COCA is a very big reason we have tons of DO grads and insufficient OGME slots."""
Glow in the dark also liked the response "...but there are plenty of TRIs and FM spots in the middle of nowhere that goes unfilled every year... "
 
Largely because the merger was quazi-sanctioned by the federal government. The government essentially said they only wanted one medical residency system. Chance are it won't be longer until it says lets do the same with undergrad education.
Why would they if everyone plays nicely? Honestly. Right now the problem is the crunch for the MDs. This is an easy solution for the government without having to fund new positions. Messing with undergraduate medical education will only cost primary care physicians, which the federal government needs. We'll basically enter the DMD/DDS era for medical school. Our next step needs to be securing that residencies cannot discriminate on degree.
 
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Why would they if everyone plays nicely? Honestly. Right now the problem is the crunch for the MDs. This is an easy solution for the government without having to fund new positions. Messing with undergraduate medical education will only cost primary care physicians, which the federal government needs. We'll basically enter the DMD/DDS era for medical school.


Eh, I think eventually either the LCME will devour COCA or it will make COCA an arm of the LCME.
 
Eh, I think eventually either the LCME will devour COCA or it will make COCA an arm of the LCME.
I just don't see why they would want to. There's no economic benefit behind it. Almost everything in life happens either for money or religion. Neither is in play here.
 
whoever uses the ID aka Glow in the Dark seems very useless and one of those folks just cruising SDN without thinking.

Glow in the Dark mentioned that "
""However, to play along. Maybe my blame is misdirected/informed, but COCA is a very big reason we have tons of DO grads and insufficient OGME slots."""
Glow in the dark also liked the response "...but there are plenty of TRIs and FM spots in the middle of nowhere that goes unfilled every year... "
You mean this post?
...but there are plenty of TRIs and FM spots in the middle of nowhere that goes unfilled every year... [/sarcasm]
I guess since Siggy didn't properly bracket the sarcasm your html reader skipped that part. I do applaud your textbook ad hominem.

Our definitions of sufficiency obviously differ, but in my world hundreds of rural FM table-scraps residencies that go unfilled every year doesn't tickle me as sufficient. They're a further testament of the quantity of quality that our academic leaders like to take.

Again, you are clearly not a resident.
 
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Here's the biggest problem with the table scrap FM residencies... they're generally going to make terrible FM physicians? Why? Because the recipe for terrible FPs is 1 part bad residency, 1 part physician who doesn't want to be an FP.

Note: There's nothing wrong with FPs or primary care. I'd make a terrible neurosurgeon because well... I don't want to be a neurosurgeon.
 
Why would they if everyone plays nicely? Honestly. Right now the problem is the crunch for the MDs.

whoa what? MDs have 26,000 spots for ~18000 graduates. There is no crunch. The crunch is on the DO side, who can't be serviced completely by their own residency slots.

MD seniors aren't projected to match ACGME spots for at least a decade, if not longer. 2016 is when MD and DO graduates combined will equal the number of ACGME spots, which portends badly for DO graduates, not MD graduates.
 
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whoa what? MDs have 26,000 spots for ~18000 graduates. There is no crunch. The crunch is on the DO side, who can't be serviced completely by their own residency slots.

MD seniors aren't projected to match ACGME spots for at least a decade, if not longer. 2016 is when MD and DO graduates combined will equal the number of ACGME spots, which portends badly for DO graduates, not MD graduates.
Think in terms of the future. about a dozen or more new MD colleges are about to open and it would become a legislative nightmare to kick out DOs and Caribbean graduates. The merger is the easiest way to solve this crunch, which affects everyone. That doesn't mean in the future they wouldn't take the next steps, but it's a smart play to address it now without having to spend money legislatively.
 
It would be a lot easier if COCA is placed under LCME since a few residencies only accept applications from LCME graduates. Also I think the accreditation itself involves a lot of fees paid by the medical schools which LCME would be happy to receive.
 
I don't think COCA is going anywhere. As I've reiterated in other threads, COCA is the darling child of every state with a "physician shortage." They approve schools that check all the boxes and, to some extent, I can see how they (COCA) would argue that this is ok. Is it really the accrediting body's job to artificially limit the number of medical schools? Shouldn't policy makers at the state or federal level do that?

Policymakers love the osteopathic model: tuition supported with low taxpayer output. As I've said before, there are lots of people (mostly health policy wonks) who think that the osteopathic education model (specific policies already part of DO education) is actually the future of medical education. Low cost, larger student bodies, and higher student: professor ratios. Less "extraneous"* activities and more doctor making. If the DO profession could find a way to dramatically lower tuition, say to the levels achieved by the lowest cost DO schools, I wouldn't be surprised if 20 more popped up in the next decade.

I don't agree with everything above. For instance, I think medical research is hugely important, as is exposing students to it during their education. I just think that the arguments everyone on SDN has for why COCA is bad and what is actually the reality on the ground do not mix.

*research
 
I don't think COCA is going anywhere. As I've reiterated in other threads, COCA is the darling child of every state with a "physician shortage." They approve schools that check all the boxes and, to some extent, I can see how they (COCA) would argue that this is ok. Is it really the accrediting body's job to artificially limit the number of medical schools? Shouldn't policy makers at the state or federal level do that?

Policymakers love the osteopathic model: tuition supported with low taxpayer output. As I've said before, there are lots of people (mostly health policy wonks) who think that the osteopathic education model (specific policies already part of DO education) is actually the future of medical education. Low cost, larger student bodies, and higher student: professor ratios. Less "extraneous"* activities and more doctor making. If the DO profession could find a way to dramatically lower tuition, say to the levels achieved by the lowest cost DO schools, I wouldn't be surprised if 20 more popped up in the next decade.

I don't agree with everything above. For instance, I think medical research is hugely important, as is exposing students to it during their education. I just think that the arguments everyone on SDN has for why COCA is bad and what is actually the reality on the ground do not mix.

*research
I agree to most statements here. Just look at how gaga they are going over the New Mexico school and how it isn't costing a dime. I'd say the cost of tuition is actually something they don't mind. Hundreds of new physicians for the country that will be able to pay back high interest loans? Sounds like something the government loves. It also solves the problem of the Caribbean with the high attrition leading to loan defaulting. When the caribbean model begins to die, you'll see them opening more DO schools. COCA is a magic loophole to having to establish strong schools. States can brag about how they are bringing more jobs to their people and expanding healthcare, and now with the merger, you can actually make the case that all physicians are trained equally at the stage that matters most; this is also why I think the 2 tier system where US MD and DO match first will become a reality.

I predict that there will be an expansion of schools that goes beyond what we've witnessed the last 10 years.
 
I agree to most statements here. Just look at how gaga they are going over the New Mexico school and how it isn't costing a dime. I'd say the cost of tuition is actually something they don't mind. Hundreds of new physicians for the country that will be able to pay back high interest loans? Sounds like something the government loves. It also solves the problem of the Caribbean with the high attrition leading to loan defaulting. When the caribbean model begins to die, you'll see them opening more DO schools. COCA is a magic loophole to having to establish strong schools. States can brag about how they are bringing more jobs to their people and expanding healthcare, and now with the merger, you can actually make the case that all physicians are trained equally at the stage that matters most; this is also why I think the 2 tier system where US MD and DO match first will become a reality.

I predict that there will be an expansion of schools that goes beyond what we've witnessed the last 10 years.
Your prediction is a dire one... I certainly hope you are wrong, sir...
 
Then why not have institutions such as Everest/ITT Tech/University of Phoenix/etc begin opening COM's? I fear this may ultimately result. Sure, graduates of such schools might be competent. But do we really want to relegate ourselves to basically being glorified vo-tech schools?
www.alliedhealthandnursingeducation.com
http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/accreditation/predoctoral accreditation/Documents/new-and-developing-colleges-of-osteopathic-medicine-and-campuses.pdf

This place has actually filed for applicant status with COCA.
Wow! I did not know it was that bad... Is there anyway we (DO students and physicians) can prevent that? The day that we have (Everest/ITT Tech/University of Phoenix) COM will be the death of the DO degree... I don't think COCA will go that low.
 
Wow! I did not know it was that bad... Is there anyway we (DO students and physicians) can prevent that? The day that we have (Everest/ITT Tech/University of Phoenix) COM will be the death of the DO degree... I don't think COCA will go that low.
doesn't RVU have connections to Devry?
 
People are missing the point of the merger, which does go back to fellowship. We can talk about how it will affect residency, and possible motives for it, but if you read the statements and listen to people who know the process (which yes I have done, our dean spoke to us twice), you know it was due to worries of AOA graduates being shafted from fellowship. Why would the ACGME care about altering AOA residency, unless it benefited them, which it will when AOA residents go into a ACGME fellowship. What in the world would be the ACGME's motive for adopting/changing osteopathic medical school education?

I think most of the people who talk about this, are those that are "worried" about osteopathic medicine being lost due to the M.D.s taking over everything. It's a little ridiculous.
The LCME could have an interest in absorbing the COCA once a substantial number of MD grads stop matching due to their being more AMGs than residency slots. Acquiring the COCA would allow them to limit new school growth and possibly close some existing osteopathic schools by instituting LCME standards on teaching and funding that many osteopathic schools would find difficult or impossible to meet.
 
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doesn't RVU have connections to Devry?
Probably, but at least RVU is not 'Devry University College of Osteopathic Medicine'...
 
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The LCME could have an interest in absorbing the COCA once a substantial number of MD grads stop matching due to their being more AMGs than residency slots. Acquiring the COCA would allow them to limit new school growth and possibly close some existing osteopathic schools by instituting LCME standards on teaching and funding that many osteopathic schools would find difficult or impossible to meet.
The day that happens will be a good day for DO... I heard that COCA requirements are so stringent that they even put schools on probation for not having enough locker rooms for their students...

Edit...I meant to say "LCME requirements" instead of COCA.
 
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Then why not have institutions such as Everest/ITT Tech/University of Phoenix/etc begin opening COM's? I fear this may ultimately result. Sure, graduates of such schools might be competent. But do we really want to relegate ourselves to basically being glorified vo-tech schools?

www.alliedhealthandnursingeducation.com
http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/accreditation/predoctoral accreditation/Documents/new-and-developing-colleges-of-osteopathic-medicine-and-campuses.pdf

This place has actually filed for applicant status with COCA.

I don’t disagree, but what you’re talking about is “prestige.” Accreditation organizations generally don’t prima facie stop a medical school because its sponsor isn’t prestigious enough. There are other ways to do this and they involve increased (some might say frivolous) standards like “percentage of revenue from tuition” restrictions. I believe this is what the ACGME does and, from what I’ve come to understand, that is not what COCA wants to be.

As to the nursing link above: duh (in general, not to you). I’ve been saying forever that it would be a matter of time before a predominantly nursing organization decides to open a medical school. How much do you want to bet that they create a NP to DO bridge within 4-5 years of their initial opening?
 
The day that happens will be a good day for DO... I heard that COCA requirements are so stringent that they even put schools on probation for not having enough locker rooms for their students...
The LCME has a number of ridiculous rules as well though. The hardest reasonable goals for DO schools to meet would be funding (only a small portion of LCME school funding may come from tuition) and teaching hospital requirements (most osteopathic schools do not have dedicated teaching hospitals). Such requirements would significantly strengthen the surviving DO schools.
 
The LCME has a number of ridiculous rules as well though. The hardest reasonable goals for DO schools to meet would be funding (only a small portion of LCME school funding may come from tuition) and teaching hospital requirements (most osteopathic schools do not have dedicated teaching hospitals). Such requirements would significantly strengthen the surviving DO schools.
I meant to say 'LCME requirements' instead of 'COCA requirements'....
 
whoa what? MDs have 26,000 spots for ~18000 graduates. There is no crunch. The crunch is on the DO side, who can't be serviced completely by their own residency slots.

MD seniors aren't projected to match ACGME spots for at least a decade, if not longer. 2016 is when MD and DO graduates combined will equal the number of ACGME spots, which portends badly for DO graduates, not MD graduates.
Those numbers don't take into account AOA residencies. And FYI, last year 6k spots filled by IMGs. That's more than total DO grads. I'd say DO grads will be good.
 
I really feel as if the 1093 unmatched US seniors might have had something to do with their interest in controlling GME...
 
Your prediction is a dire one... I certainly hope you are wrong, sir...
It's not if you think about it. All that will happen is that the Caribbean will die out and the good students will be attending Osteopathic programs. Residency is still the limiting variable, and after seeing what happened to podiatry, physicians won't let the same thing happen. It's good that we now have ACGME to worry about because they will put pressure on Osteopathic programs not to grow beyond the limitations that residency places. The sky isn't falling, my friend. It's a new era that will benefit osteopathic medicine, students and patients.

Quick math. If you take the 6000 spots that went to Caribbean and FMG and turn them into DO schools of 200 students graduating yearly, you can open 30 COMs. Another 15-20 COMs after a 2 tier system is entirely possible. You can also get to the point of having a medical school per each state.
 
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I really feel as if the 1093 unmatched US seniors might have had something to do with their interest in controlling GME...
And this is why I think the two tier system is going to happen. You can say that the US grads applied in a stupid way to programs they had no shot, but they could have had a better shot at something if the IMG/FMG wouldn't have been playing. This is and the number of DOs coming into ACGME will be what forces the 2 tier system.
 
Then why not have institutions such as Everest/ITT Tech/University of Phoenix/etc begin opening COM's? I fear this may ultimately result. Sure, graduates of such schools might be competent. But do we really want to relegate ourselves to basically being glorified vo-tech schools?

www.alliedhealthandnursingeducation.com
http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/accreditation/predoctoral accreditation/Documents/new-and-developing-colleges-of-osteopathic-medicine-and-campuses.pdf

This place has actually filed for applicant status with COCA.
The key to their model is that it doesn't matter at all if the student outcome is good. They have their money in the bag and too bad for you if you don't have a job, which is why they can own Ross without a problem. If they enter COCA or LCME, they will have considerable pressure to graduate strong classes with high match rates. This is not an investment that will give them as much return.
 
doesn't RVU have connections to Devry?

Not really. The founder/owner of RVU owned AUC (founded by his father I believe). AUC was purchased from the owner (of RVU and AUC at the time) by DeVry, which already owned Ross. The connection is only that the owner of RVU sold AUC to DeVry.

The LCME could have an interest in absorbing the COCA once a substantial number of MD grads stop matching due to their being more AMGs than residency slots. Acquiring the COCA would allow them to limit new school growth and possibly close some existing osteopathic schools by instituting LCME standards on teaching and funding that many osteopathic schools would find difficult or impossible to meet.

The lack of matching due to more AMGs than residency spots likely won't happen for at least a decade of continued MD and DO school growth. We may be closer to that than we've ever been, but we still aren't particularly close to it right now.

...It's good that we now have ACGME to worry about because they will put pressure on Osteopathic programs not to grow beyond the limitations that residency places...

COCA already has such a regulation in place for DO schools. In July 2013, they made a >98% GME placement rate a requirement for retaining accreditation. This isn't something the LCME needs to do for us (in fact I'm not certain there is a similar requirement by the LCME - I couldn't find it, but if someone else can, more power to you).

DeVry owns Ross University. RVU was started by the previous owners of AUC.

DeVry also owns AUC now. See above.
 
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I read a 2009 article in "Academic Medicine" written by those of AACOM and AOA describing the similarities and differences within the accreditation process between COCA and LCME.

There was then a very critical critique on the article made by Dr. Hunt (UNC Professor and LCME/AAMC Assistant Secretary) stating that the article avoided some very obvious issues including 1) Proper faculty:student ratios, 2) stringent research opportunities and most importantly 3) clinical clerkship quality.

Just search "COCA and LCME" on pubmed and you should find it.

I don't foresee much discussion occurring between these two bodies anytime soon unless there is some sort of trickle down affect from the ACGME/AOA merger? Who knows.
 
I read a 2009 article in "Academic Medicine" written by those of AACOM and AOA describing the similarities and differences within the accreditation process between COCA and LCME.

There was then a very critical critique on the article made by Dr. Hunt (UNC Professor and LCME/AAMC Assistant Secretary) stating that the article avoided some very obvious issues including 1) Proper faculty:student ratios, 2) stringent research opportunities and most importantly 3) clinical clerkship quality.

Just search "COCA and LCME" on pubmed and you should find it.

I don't foresee much discussion occurring between these two bodies anytime soon unless there is some sort of trickle down affect from the ACGME/AOA merger? Who knows.

The original article that Dr. Hunt is replying to was co-authored by Marc Hahn (current KCUMB president).
 
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The original article that Dr. Hunt is replying to was co-authored by Marc Hahn (current KCUMB president).

Huh. I didn't realize that! I wonder if he is on board the band wagon for what clinical education is right now or if he wants to make steps to ensure every student gets strong clinical exp.
 
Huh. I didn't realize that! I wonder if he is on board the band wagon for what clinical education is right now or if he wants to make steps to ensure every student gets strong clinical exp.

Take a look at the AOA Blue Ribbon Commission (or whatever it's called). He co-chaired it. Or better yet, ask him. He's a really nice guy.
 
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Take a look at the AOA Blue Ribbon Commission (or whatever it's called). He co-chaired it. Or better yet, ask him. He's a really nice guy.

Wow I really like that actually. A very good step towards having a pipeline approach for DO student as supposed to the drop that may happen in 3rd year.
 
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