I am an ICU Nurse with low MCAT score

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
No hurt feelings, just annoyed amusement at your still being a smartass.

Do you know the reason for URM status given to those that are Hispanic or black?

What percent of the population is Ethiopian? That's the more pertinent question and something you're clearly falling to grasp.

The designation is for African American students. I wasn't sure if it applied to someone that was possibly an immigrant.

By your fantastic logic, black international students are URMs... and I'm not sure that's true which is why I asked the question to begin with, but thanks yet again for being difficult.

Members don't see this ad.
 
It's like patients that c/o about their illness or disease processes, but then they don't want to take sound advice.

You have done well in your coursework. But one must be able to carefully find out what is going on and what the tester is looking for in these standardized exams. Without strong verbal reading and inferential skills, you will continue to have trouble on many tests even after any possible MS acceptances. They are structured with the requirement of core medical and scientific knowledge, but they will be looking for your ability to carefully infer and apply the knowledge.

One more time: Get help with your core verbal and verbal analyses skills, prepare then, again for MCAT, and re-take. Dr. Midlife is right. You will spend a lot of money, and even with URM, it may well turn out to be a HUGE gamble and waste of time. But as Scottishchap has shared, you will still have standardized testing hurdles that will require strong, verbal skills by application.

It's your dime. I'm not going to argue. You could get lucky. I think bolstering your verbal skills and preparing well and then re-taking MCAT shows better judgment--and good judgment is absolutely essential in medicine. Just my stupid opinion though.
 
I'm not sure to what extent the affirmative action impulse really seeks cultural representation or just strictly a balanced color palate. I find scant simarities between Ethiopian and African American cultures unless under the purvey of some pan leftist frame that depicts the global struggle against the legacy of European colonialism. In other word nothing at all when it comes to person to person interactions.
...

But if it gets you into medical school then then that's all that matters right. So be encouraged by whatever you choose.

I'm sorry for hurting your feelings. The answer to your question just seemed too obvious, especially since you're a medical student. I suppose I should have turned the question back to you, asking: What percentage of your medical school classmates are 1. black and ethiopian? 2. Is that a minority?

Whether a person's identity categories makes them a minority is separate from whether they get URM status.
Here is the relevant Med-MAR info:

"You can participate in Med-MAR if you identify as as economically disadvantaged or as a member of one of the following racial or ethnic groups historically underrepresented in medicine: African-American/Black, Hispanic/Latino, American Indian/Alaska Native, Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander. You also must be a U.S. citizen or Permanent Resident Visa holder."

Some schools may also look for specific populations, like schools in Cali looking for Hmong applicants, a URM subset of 'asian' which is ORM.

I agree with Nasrudin that there are often very well-educated folks coming from very different cultures or coming from wealthy subsets from within the states who did not necessarily have the same issues facing an African-American candidate who was not economically buffered (that was the group that started the whole affirmative action). I also agree with Nasrudin that if it helps, work it.

MCAT scores and standardized tests are known to be biased against african americans, but also immigrants, particularly in the VR section (the other sections not so affected) . So the low scores have a context, and may be interpreted with that context. hence URM scores generally having lower median. However, a 22 is *really* low, and not sure how it will play out even with urm .I'll leave it to you to find research that speaks to that. I have seen links to tables on gpa/mcat and chances in urm context on sdn before. did try and re-find, but no luck. Not sure if it is really correctable, though, as there are already two MCATS done (the first was lower, not sure what the average was between the two, and if MD schools usually take best score or average). A third may not do much except prove that something was corrected and the person is now good to go on standardized testing.

The english in these posts seems well-spoken. I don't know the particulars of the person's education, except from what I know by reading 'cutting for stone' by verghese set in the ethiopian/ eritrean context. i don't know if schools attended were elite, in english, or in refugee camps etc. i do know some kind of thought into what is making such poor performances is required at this point, though, as posters have said, to prepare decent answers for interviews, to prepare for further standardized test-taking hurdles, and perhaps to prepare for a third mcat.

the application seems quite strong otherwise. making sure the essays are written in a way that speaks to adcoms best will be important (get help in writing, know what to address and how). lower scores are often accepted from 'urm' (but not necessarily 'immigrant', so luckily op fits 'urm' as well as immigrant) d/t bias in standardized tests as revealed through ++ research, and also, b/c recruitment is for the purpose that urm is 'more likely' to 1. go into primary care and 2. serve underserved populations afterwards. (unfortunately, the percentage who actually do, although slightly higher than ORM, is not overwhelming if i remember). and the reasons for going into primary care may be d/t subtle discrimination in the culture of medicine that marginalizes certain people in the clinical training. ah well. nothing is straightforward. at any rate, know *why* the willingness to overlook, see whether you actually match that stuff (want primary care, want to serve underserved populations) and if you do, make sure to state that in the essay so that you are writing what people are looking for. all this is actually out there in published articles. i'm not going to provide sources for this paragraph though, unless you would like a biblio that i have developed while researching in these areas. p.m. me if you do. it can help organize your narrative to match what is actually being looked for...as long as that is with integrity, that you are actually matching what is being looked for, or seriously consider matching what is being looked for.

an smp or post-bac pipeline programme may be useful. usually for gpa rather than mcat, but perhaps a programme that sends many to a med school would be more likely to accept with a low mcat. that could be something to look at.

for some reason, i keep remembering your post, 'but i am BLACK'. after not mentioning it once beforehand. that does change advice, but seemed a little weird to knock down advice as poor for not including that piece of info, when that piece of info hadn't been provided.

hope some of this is helpful to you.

Edited to Add: agreeing with 'if it helps, work it'. however, also knowing that this runs rough-shod over integrity and ethics. so hoping that 'working it' to gain entrance will also create an obligation to realign with integrity, and look seriously at primary care and serving the underserved. just acknowledging that to say 'sit out' would mean you get disadvantaged when many of the people being helped by this process are actually also 'working it'. it's a larger issue. one that maybe you will feel obliged or moved to address by having 'worked it' yourself.
it's not a 'pure' ethics, but then again, most of life is not either. at any rate, i'm acknowledging that this does not sit easily as a 'purely good' thing to do or agree to to doing.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
ok here is the thread that referenced the table, but the link to the table doesn't work, and look what backlash even from within URM community to say 'that's good enough then'. even more reason for you to think about the situation and prepare good answers for interviews that fits with the medical community's narratives for 'good interpretations' of your situation. i.e. 'not whining', 'not excusing', etc etc. will leave it to you to get help in crafting those narratives.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/black-applicants-acceptance-rates.758759/

Here is the updated link to aamc that i found by searching 'black mcat gpa grid' in the website. acceptance rate for 3.8/23 was only 38%. but with 3.8/24 went to 86%. could be quite a significant detail for you.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321514/data/factstable25-2.pdf
 
I'd retake it and get into a competitive score range. Take a course if you have to or self study using TBR or TPR.... well the MCAT is changing now so you're going to have to wait and figure it out.

A score of a 22 isn't confidence inspiring even with URM status...
It isn't fantastic, but her odds aren't even close to zero. Per the AAMC, she's got a roughly 37.9% chance of acceptance.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321514/data/factstable25-2.pdf
 
It isn't fantastic, but her odds aren't even close to zero. Per the AAMC, she's got a roughly 37.9% chance of acceptance.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321514/data/factstable25-2.pdf

That assumes the OP counts as a URM though.

Regardless, I personally wouldn't like those odds given how expensive the process is.

Obviously the OP can do whatever they want, but saying the odds are good is hilariously disingenuous. ECs don't make up for such a low score. In this case, it probably raises questions regarding the quality of coursework given the disparity with GPA.
 
That assumes the OP counts as a URM though.

Regardless, I personally wouldn't like those odds given how expensive the process is.

Obviously the OP can do whatever they want, but saying the odds are good is hilariously disingenuous. ECs don't make up for such a low score. In this case, it probably raises questions regarding the quality of coursework given the disparity with GPA.
OP does qualify as a URM. I'd encourage an MCAT retake, but as it stands her odds certainly aren't zero.
 
OP does qualify as a URM. I'd encourage an MCAT retake, but as it stands her odds certainly aren't zero.

Wow 38%. Not bad at all. That's not even close to as bad as this guys odds:



I mean I generally have had way worse than 37% chance of doing probably most of the things I've tried: getting laid on any given night just for starters. And who has that ever stopped from going for it?

Not that I disagree with DrML. It's just wow, 38%.
 
Wow 38%. Not bad at all. That's not even close to as bad as this guys odds:



I mean I generally have had way worse than 37% chance of doing probably most of the things I've tried: getting laid on any given night just for starters. And who has that ever stopped from going for it?

Not that I disagree with DrML. It's just wow, 38%.

Given that 40% of MD applicants are admitted overall, that really isn't bad. She's actually got better odds than an Asian kid with a 3.7/29, and yet we wouldn't say "don't apply, you don't stand much of a chance!" to a kid with those stats, especially if they had years of ICU nursing experience.
 
"I have taken MCAT twice and the second time I raised it up to 22 (November 2014) and I have no interest of taking it again. Verbal was my weakest areas as English is my third language."--> OP's own words.


Regardless, 22 is way too low for anybody. That statement above says A LOT to me--especially about having no interest in taking it again. It's not like OP is going to be taking less difficult tests in MS or for licensure or BC. It's just illogical IMHO to take this position.

If it were me, I wouldn't want to take the risk of applying with a score of 22 and the previous MCAT even less. How much did the OP raise that score with a 22? And what will be the quick of average of that, b/c they won't just look at the 22, no matter what they say--that is, if the OP's app just doesn't go to auto-reject--like applications for job positions do when the applicant doesn't have the core requirements for a particular job.

The process of acceptance still has a certain amount of chance as it is. Why would you want to keep sitting at that casino table--playing those cards--with your chances much lower than they need to be? You've got to work as much in your favor as you can. It's like the OP is near 21 and the next card is going to put the OP over to lose her/his hand. OP will help his/her chances at a better hand and help her/his success in MS (That's if he/she gains entrance) if s/he ups the verbal/MCAT. S/he needs to play with a better hand IMHO.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Don't to go to a med school that allows you in with a 22. That acceptance isn't about you. It's about the brochure.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
"I have taken MCAT twice and the second time I raised it up to 22 (November 2014) and I have no interest of taking it again. Verbal was my weakest areas as English is my third language."--> OP's own words.


Regardless, 22 is way too low for anybody. That statement above says A LOT to me--especially about having no interest in taking it again. It's not like OP is going to be taking less difficult tests in MS or for licensure or BC. It's just illogical IMHO to take this position.

If it were me, I wouldn't want to take the risk of applying with a score of 22 and the previous MCAT even less. How much did the OP raise that score with a 22? And what will be the quick of average of that, b/c they won't just look at the 22, no matter what they say--that is, if the OP's app just doesn't go to auto-reject--like applications for job positions do when the applicant doesn't have the core requirements for a particular job.

The process of acceptance still has a certain amount of chance as it is. Why would you want to keep sitting at that casino table--playing those cards--with your chances much lower that they need to be? You've got to work as much in your favor as you can. It's like the OP is near 21 and the next card is going to put the OP over to lose his hand. OP will help his chances at a better hand and help her/his success in MS (That's if he/she gains entrance) if s/he ups the verbal/MCAT. S/he needs to play with a better hand IMHO.

i think op was saying they don't want to keep sitting at the casino table (taking the mcat) playing those cards (studying hard, having taken kaplan...not sure what else)...and hoping for a different outcome. because more of the same doesn't look good either. so op is wondering what her odds are if she doesn't retake. and some sources say odds are 38%. she asks how she might maximize, and i think making sure her narrative fits medical culture's 'good' answers really well, and possibly investigating 'pipeline' post-baccs etc. with this info, and what she knows about how schools deal with scoring multiple mcats, she *may* decide to try and get better and retake, knowing that one extra point overally would shoot it up to 85% chance of acceptance? not sure...let's see. she may decide to play her hand one year and then reconfigure? not sure...let's see...
 
Don't to go to a med school that allows you in with a 22. That acceptance isn't about you. It's about the brochure.

when has acceptance ever *really* been about *you* and more about whatever brochure - excellence! diversity! fits how *we* define a good doctor!

edit: and by *we* i mean dominant culture withiin medicine and without in more broad societal cultural norms that defines what folks in medicine and adcomms understand *good* to be.
 
Last edited:
Members don't see this ad :)
How about this. Take a look at a bunch of typical med school exam questions: http://www.nbme.org/pdf/SubjectExams/SE_ContentOutlineandSampleItems.pdf

Do these questions look like MCAT bio/phys questions? Or do they look like MCAT verbal? I'm thinking verbal. You have about one minute per question, in a 1-2 hour exam, roughly once per week. In a block schedule, a 6-8 hour exam once per month. You'll get some old-fashioned terse Hesselbalch formula questions etc, but at least at my school there's been a huge move toward USMLE-style exam questions for everything, even the lab practicals.

Think you'll have time to learn how to master this question style, during med school, with kids at home? If so, by all means, proceed.

Here's an easy one:
A 24-year-old man is brought to the emergency department by his mother after barricading himself in his apartment. For 8 months, he has believed that aliens follow him and control his mind. He was fired from his part-time job 6 months ago because of unusual behavior. There are no other apparent psychosocial stressors. His paternal grandmother has major depressive disorder. He does not use drugs, but his mother states that he frequently drinks beer. There is no disturbance of mood, sleep, or appetite. Examination shows an extremely agitated and suspicious patient. There is a 1 × 1-cm abrasion in the right frontal area. His blood alcohol concentration is 0.5 mg/dL, and serum γ-glutamyltransferase (GGT) activity is 40 U/L (N=5–50). Which of the following is the most likely diagnosis?
(A) Alcohol-induced mood disorder
(B) Bipolar disorder, manic
(C) Brief psychotic disorder
(D) Schizoaffective disorder
(E) Schizophrenia, paranoid type
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
when has acceptance ever *really* been about *you* and more about whatever brochure - excellence! diversity! fits how *we* define a good doctor!

edit: and by *we* i mean dominant culture withiin medicine and without in more broad societal cultural norms that defines what folks in medicine and adcomms understand *good* to be.

I understand what the OP and you and others are saying. But the plain ole truth is that great verbal ability helps with just about everything as far as testing is concerned IMHO. What's more, testing never stops in medicine--ever--BC requirements, etc. Core knowledge will always help the tester--that's why it's great to be a strong reader and interpreter, but without core knowledge, it becomes more risky for the test taker--even if they are strong in test-taking skills. Being able to quickly hone in on what the test creators are looking for, and then using strong comprehension with reasoning and inferential analyses, well, there is no substitution for this. Even Dr. Ben Carson had to figure this out on his path through medical school-and he was not an ESL student. He ended up with great success throughout his surgical career, and I am SURE he busted his butt big time. Verbal reasoning, however, is quintessential. I don't know how you get around that.

Furthermore, it will continue to be essential when evaluating each particular patient--in light of both their whole situation as an individual and in light of EBP. Verbal reasoning is key in terms of applying medicine as both a science and an art.

Listen, I have even tutored math majors that killed in every math or physics courses they could take at a given university, but in terms of everything else, which required strong verbal skills, well, they struggled b/c of verbal weakness. With the right amount of work they were able to make tremendous improvements. Part of this for some students is that they may have more comfort with say, math, as opposed to verbal reasoning in thinking and writing. There are other students that are great in verbal but weak in math. But if one has enough intelligence and drive, regardless of one's natural proclivity, they will find a way to get over the whole attitude of "I hate math," or "I hate verbal." If one is motivated and determined enough, in most cases, s/he can overcome his/her area of weakness and even learn to excel in it--at least in comparison with what they ever thought they could.

It's about overcoming obstacles and resistance. Taking the path of least resistance can easily become a problem in school and in work life--especially for physicians. This process, if done well, and continued well, will NEVER be easy. NEVER. She would do well to strengthen her verbal comprehension and such, as I described earlier. It will only help her--whether she gets in with her current application, or whether she finds she must re-take the MCAT, which will be the new one.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I understand what the OP and you and others are saying. But the plain ole truth is that great verbal ability helps with just about everything as far as testing is concerned IMHO. What's more, testing never stops in medicine--ever--BC requirements, etc. Core knowledge will always help the tester--that's why it's great to be a strong reader and interpreter, but without core knowledge, it becomes more risky for the test taker--even if they are strong in test-taking skills. Being able to quickly hone in on what the test creators are looking for, and then using strong comprehension with reasoning and inferential analyses, well, there is no substitution for this. Even Dr. Ben Carson had to figure this out on his path through medical school-and he was not an ESL student. He ended up with great success throughout his surgical career, and I am SURE he busted his butt big time. Verbal reasoning, however, is quintessential. I don't know how you get around that.

Furthermore, it will continue to be essential when evaluating each particular patient--in light of both their whole situation as an individual and in light of EBP. Verbal reasoning is key in terms of applying medicine as both a science and an art.

Listen, I have even tutored math majors that killed in every math or physics courses they could take at a given university, but in terms of everything else, which required strong verbal skills, well, they struggled b/c of verbal weakness. With the right amount of work they were able to make tremendous improvements. Part of this for some students is that they may have more comfort with say, math, as opposed to verbal reasoning in thinking and writing. There are other students that are great in verbal but weak in math. But if one has enough intelligence and drive, regardless of one's natural proclivity, they will find a way to get over the whole attitude of "I hate math," or "I hate verbal." If one is motivated and determined enough, in most cases, s/he can overcome his/her area of weakness and even learn to excel in it--at least in comparison with what they ever thought they could.

It's about overcoming obstacles and resistance. Taking the path of least resistance can easily become a problem in school and in work life--especially for physicians. This process, if done well, and continued well, will NEVER be easy. NEVER. She would do well to strengthen her verbal comprehension and such, as I described earlier. It will only help her--whether she gets in with her current application, or whether she finds she must re-take the MCAT, which will be the new one.


I agree with you on the importance of verbal reasoning skills, and how not addressing them might haunt a person. also i liked seeing your posts talk about ways that people have addressed developing critical thinking/other areas that go into verbal reasoning skills.

i don't agree that an mcat retake has to be the way to get those reasoning skills, as you have read.

perhaps there is a way to separate acquiring the skills and retaking the mcat as two separate issues.

however, if the skills are acquired, this *may* be a good reason to attempt an mcat again.

i get the idea of 'not shortcutting it'. as long as op can assess that she indeed is in a 'shortcut' situation. she may feel she has tried the long haul and the results she has are after a full play?
 
The OP is going to do what she wants. Maybe she'll get in this time, but, personally, even if I were full blood URM, I wouldn't be shocked if I didn't get in with that MCAT, and I would want to know that I could improve my ability to read the verbal as I earlier stated.

I am not convinced of a "full play" b/c of that fact that she stated English was not her first language, she has problems with the verbal, her MCAT scores are super low, and even her other BS and PS were not super high. This seems indicative of a language-based problem that needs super strong, core work. If she does that, she will be good to go I think, next she takes the MCAT, as well as for MS. But if she has nothing to lose by applying now, well then fine. Personally, I wouldn't do it until I could have some help fully assessing my core problem/s and then, working a sound plan to obtain marked improvement.

She knows the nursing process, hopefully as a nurse--*shrug*. She needs to follow that process w/ re: to her language/verbal issues. If she does get in, it is reasonable to assume that she is going to struggle w/ further testing through shelves-->BCE. Just saying. You have to be able to carefully assess a problem, properly dx it, and then put the plan of intervention in place, aiming for the optimal or best results--given the particular situation--and then evaluate where you stand.

If I were on an adcom, knowing that she was a nurse, and understanding the basics of these processes, well, I'd wonder why she didn't activate and fully see through the process. ? If she did, somewhere there is probably an issue with judgment and/or understanding of and/or use of the process. The high GPA and very low MCAT scores don't click. There doesn't have to be perfect correspondence, but they are way off. But like I said. It's her dime.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Personally, I see it as a waste of time to go with high costs, barriers, etc. when one of the most important factors in my control is not up to par. It's the MCAT... seriously...Outside of GPA which takes years to get up, you can raise an MCAT score in a few months if you play your cards right.

Also, Kaplan sucks. TPR is WAY better.
 
Don't to go to a med school that allows you in with a 22. That acceptance isn't about you. It's about the brochure.

As a URM, I can say without equivocation that this statement is spot on for a multitude of reasons not the least of which is the fact that med school is NOT the environment to learn how to excel on standardized tests.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
You might want to know that MCAT is still not every thing!

Some of you have given me your best advices and others will rather say NOTHING!
But to all of you, thank you for your time!
I have been accepted to an MD school that was my top choice and more invites on the way!

It is amazing how one question on this thread brought a lot of unnecessary discussions!

For me, I praise God! For He has not given up on me!

You have to know that MCAT is part of the application package but it is NOT every thing!

Thank you!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
You might want to know that MCAT is still not every thing!

Some of you have given me your best advices and others will rather say NOTHING!
But to all of you, thank you for your time!
I have been accepted to an MD school that was my top choice and more invites on the way!

It is amazing how one question on this thread brought a lot of unnecessary discussions!

For me, I praise God! For He has not given up on me!

You have to know that MCAT is part of the application package but it is NOT every thing!

Thank you!
Woah congrats. May I ask which school you got accepted to? You can pm me if you want.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
You might want to know that MCAT is still not every thing!

Some of you have given me your best advices and others will rather say NOTHING!
But to all of you, thank you for your time!
I have been accepted to an MD school that was my top choice and more invites on the way!

It is amazing how one question on this thread brought a lot of unnecessary discussions!

For me, I praise God! For He has not given up on me!

You have to know that MCAT is part of the application package but it is NOT every thing!

Thank you!


Congratulations. Hope all goes very well for you and wish you the utmost of success.

I don't believe that MCAT is everything. I just know standardized testing is something that is not going away.
Still, I am genuinely happy for you and wish you the absolute best. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
And the chance prevails. Told you guys it wasn't even close to zero ;)

Now, succeeding in medical school and on the boards will prove to be OP's next challenge.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
And the chance prevails. Told you guys it wasn't even close to zero ;)

Now, succeeding in medical school and on the boards will prove to be OP's next challenge.

Mad jack!
I am not here to prove any thing for any one, none of this is done by my strength but by my Lord who is the author of my life!

If any thing, you can deal with Him but not me! I am weak but He is strong!
End of discussion!

Good luck to you in your quest for meaningful life!
Mine was never under my control but of my GOD!
No I have no worries and you will not find me announcing my next success because I know it is already here!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Thank you for your advices!

So what about schools like Howard with interviews as low as 22 (which is already written on their website), Meharry and so on. Those are MD schools, not even DO. Ofcouse people get in to DO schools even with 19.

How are you backing up your statements. Also I am not for sure taking MCAT again and if I would have done something different I would have done it long time ago.
Thanks
Re: Howard -- that isn't actually true. My score is much higher than a 22 and I live in DC and haven't heard a peep. I think they say that but actually screen on many, many criteria.

edited for clarity
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Mad jack!
I am not here to prove any thing for any one, none of this is done by my strength but by my Lord who is the author of my life!

If any thing, you can deal with Him but not me! I am weak but He is strong!
End of discussion!

Good luck to you in your quest for meaningful life!
Mine was never under my control but of my GOD!
No I have no worries and you will not find me announcing my next success because I know it is already here!
:eyebrow: The fate of your verbal reasoning score has become rapidly apparent.

Remember that God helps those that help themselves and you've got a long, hard road ahead. Trust in God all you like, but we've been given free will for a reason, and that free will allows us to perform poorly, make mistakes, and outright fail, regardless of what degree of faith you have. Sometimes failure is a lesson, after all, so do your best to not have to learn it.

Just remember this one thing, now and forever- that bit about getting into medical school being the hard part is an outright lie. Med school is the harder part. Obtaining and completing a residency is the hardest part. Make sure to be mindful of your abilities and limitations as you confront your first year and beyond. Good luck, in any case.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
Well said!
Good luck to you too!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
The verbal section in the MCAT is absolutely a killer for ESL students... Med school exams are nothing like the MCAT, though the questions can be 'wordy'... I spent more than 50% of study time in VR when I was studying for the MCAT and VR was still my lowest score...

You will be fine OP as long as you put in the effort... You will encounter very few VR-type questions in med school. Good luck!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
The verbal section in the MCAT is absolutely a killer for ESL students... Med school exams are nothing like the MCAT, though the questions can be 'wordy'... I spent more than 50% of study time in VR when I was studying for the MCAT and VR was still my lowest score...

You will be fine OP as long as you put in the effort... You will encounter very few VR-type questions in med school. Good luck!
Step 1 is a bit VR-ey. You have to sort out context from the passages in a way that is difficult without strong VR skills, but it can be done much easier than the VR MCAT regardless.
 
Step 1 is a bit VR-ey. You have to sort out context from the passages in a way that is difficult without strong VR skills, but it can be done much easier than the VR MCAT regardless.


Not true!

So happy for you @DMG

Sdn full of hateful dreamkillers!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
The only lesson here is just how desperately affirmative action is needed to create black physicians. This is not a lesson about "MCAT isn't everything" nor divine intervention. Society needs black doctors so different rules apply.

OP, you are going to be a great physician. Unless your poor standardized test taking derails you. You have 4-5 more high stakes exams ahead of you and no one can ignore the result on your behalf. The equivalent of a 22 on Step 1 is a failing score. Invest the time and the $$ in formal test prep. It's a tiny investment when you consider the stakes. Your school gambled on you but they did it with your money.

What this means is you may have to outwork your peers to get the same results. They may spend more time doing stuff outside the core work. Rock Step 1 and that view might change. More likely, you'll work harder and get an OK score. Then you will know what's required for you to pass the rest of the high stakes tests.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
You might want to know that MCAT is still not every thing!

Some of you have given me your best advices and others will rather say NOTHING!
But to all of you, thank you for your time!
I have been accepted to an MD school that was my top choice and more invites on the way!

It is amazing how one question on this thread brought a lot of unnecessary discussions!

For me, I praise God! For He has not given up on me!

You have to know that MCAT is part of the application package but it is NOT every thing!

Thank you!

I am so happy that you didn't let these haters stop you like Dr. Midlife. Perhaps, she should have listened to herself rather than others. Black Girl Magic!
 
Look for the FACTS tables on aamc.org. You're interacting with people who have been directly involved with, and paid obsessively close attention to, med school admissions for decades.

Then you're not going to med school. Find the MCAT forum here for advice on how to improve your score, and to see if your prior prep was reasonable. In general it takes months and money.

Schools that admit students with a low MCAT are not doing any favors, because there's nothing but constant unrelenting hours-long multiple choice exams in med school. The MCAT is what it is for good reason.

I'm all in favor of those with serious healthcare experience going after med school. But I've also seen too many people who weren't well prepared fail out.

Best of luck to you.
I am sure you have a lot of experiences given your failures but OP got into Medical School INSPITE of your advice. Sounds to me you owe her a congratulations. You certainly need to get rid of your hater attitude. Not everyone is like you!
 
Last edited:
I am sure you have a lot of experiences given your failures but OP got into Medical School INSPITE of your advice. Sounds to me you owe her a congratulations. You certainly need to get rid of you hater attitude. Not everyone is like you!

Wow. you comin with the butt soreness.

Medical school is a mountain. People fall. When you see people fall from a great height like after the first 2 years of huge effort and huge expense. then you take a sober, less romantic emotionality to premeds with dangerous predictive measures in their applications.

Use the buttsoreness. make it, make you better. don't cling to it, like a honorary badge of victimhood. that gets you more buttsoreness and failure yourself.

i know DrML. she's a nice person. her intentions were to sober the OP to the realities not trounce her dreams and convince her that an abrahamic god is a destructive mass delusion, etc.

training. is about getting results. getting it done. over and over again. and it doesn't care about your feels.

Also, let me speak for everyone here, now: Congrats OP!






Now, get to work, getting to work. Cause you just started. And there's risk of failing the Step in your cards.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 6 users
Wow. you comin with the butt soreness.

Medical school is a mountain. People fall. When you see people fall from a great height like after the first 2 years of huge effort and huge expense. then you take a sober, less romantic emotionality to premeds with dangerous predictive measures in their applications.

Use the buttsoreness. make it, make you better. don't cling to it, like a honorary badge of victimhood. that gets you more buttsoreness and failure yourself.

i know DrML. she's a nice person. her intentions were to sober the OP to the realities not trounce her dreams and convince her that an abrahamic god is a destructive mass delusion, etc.

training. is about getting results. getting it done. over and over again. and it doesn't care about your feels.

Also, let me speak for everyone here, now: Congrats OP!






Now, get to work, getting to work. Cause you just started. And there's risk of failing the Step in your cards.

I wasn't coming with a bitter attitude. Clearly, the OP is aware of her shortcomings. She doesn't need someone to impose their journey on to her.
 
I wasn't coming with a bitter attitude. Clearly, the OP is aware of her shortcomings. She doesn't need someone to impose their journey on to her.

OK fair enough. But she was asking about what the game is like and how the dealer looks at her cards. Maybe there was some community underestimation of the affirmative action impulse of adcomm's given that isn't most of our experience.

Everyone is on this trip together. We all go in different directions, have different opinions. Think different things. It's true, it can be difficult to maintain your confidence with others looking soberly, grimly at your situation. But the resilience and toughness it takes to resist that is even less than what it will take to work hard enough to negate the risk of a measure predictive of failing the Step. Because the stakes get higher.

Your acceptance is one of the biggest hurdles. For some the biggest. For others. Who struggle in medical school or for those who suffer a failure on the steps, after rounds of betting have stacked the pile on the table....it's far from the biggest.

either way. winning against doubt. is one of the secret, most intense pleasures in life.

when i look back. having suffered all the doubt you speak of. i think to myself. yeah mf'er...I did that. it's even more savory with the doubt I overcame.

It's important not to vilify the adversity.

the best position is a calm, determined will to overcome it.

growth requires adversity. it builds strength.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Something to consider, IMO med school work is way harder than the MCAT. Think about cramming in all of the MCAT material into 3 weeks, along with a ton of other stuff like anatomy with labs, genetics, histology, opp, etc and being tested with 2nd and 3rd order questions on all of it. Rinse and repeat month after month after month for 2yrs. So if you can't do at least average on the MCAT chances are good you will struggle in med school.

Med school is about more than just getting in.

Good luck to anyone trying and congrats to those who succeed.
 
@DrMidlife Stop scaring the young ones with clinical vignettes. Let them feel the burn when they reach the ninth circle and not any sooner until then. They must feel true despair.
 
@DrMidlife Stop scaring the young ones with clinical vignettes. Let them feel the burn when they reach the ninth circle and not any sooner until then. They must feel true despair.
For the record, everything I've ever written on SDN is directly aimed at preventing that misery.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
For the record, everything I've ever written on SDN is directly aimed at preventing that misery.

Amen!

If someone wants more individualized personal advice considering numerous life variables and directing them accordingly then guess what, they need to hire a psychologist who specializes in such. Yes, there will always be those who go against the learned advice given on SDN and be successful, BUT those are the exceptions. With 60% not making it in, many miserable after they do make it in, and the many physicians who are depressed, substance abusers, and suicidal medical school is not something that someone should pursue lightly .

People should also look inward before criticizing someone who offers free advice online based on their own experiences and how they've overcame challenges. Yes, it may be discouraging to read but those with the greatest likelihood of success will use such advice to better themselves and be successful.

My two cents.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
How in the world are you going to pass boards with an MCAT score of 22.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I definitely agree with most of the people on here, you should really retake the MCAT. All other aspects (EC, GPA, etc) are great. Why let a low MCAT score hinder your chances? Most schools will auto-reject your application because you don't meet their minimum, so they will never see your EC or experience, simply due to the fact that your application will never reach them. Also, it is true that you can increase your changes if you apply as early as possible, however, you're going to spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars trying to apply everywhere just for that once chance that you might get in somewhere, which is not guaranteed. And if you don't get it, you're just going to try again and again without retaking the MCAT? Med school requirements are getting more and more competitive. Your MCAT won't even make it for the most DO schools. I know someone who is struggling to get in with your similar EC and GPA but they have a 24 MCAT. Is wasting hundreds, if not thousands of dollars worth it (with no guarantees) just because you don't want to retake the MCAT? It's up to you...but that's definitely not a smart move. Even getting a 26+ (whatever the new score equivalent of that is) will increase your chances by a lot because at least your application won't be automatically filtered out.

Also, the people who have gotten in with super low MCAT scores were examples from a few years ago. Like I said, the minimum requirements are increasing slightly every year. Maybe your 22 would have been enough to barely get you there a few years ago, but when you apply, it might not.
 
I definitely agree with most of the people on here, you should really retake the MCAT. All other aspects (EC, GPA, etc) are great. Why let a low MCAT score hinder your chances? Most schools will auto-reject your application because you don't meet their minimum, so they will never see your EC or experience, simply due to the fact that your application will never reach them. Also, it is true that you can increase your changes if you apply as early as possible, however, you're going to spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars trying to apply everywhere just for that once chance that you might get in somewhere, which is not guaranteed. And if you don't get it, you're just going to try again and again without retaking the MCAT? Med school requirements are getting more and more competitive. Your MCAT won't even make it for the most DO schools. I know someone who is struggling to get in with your similar EC and GPA but they have a 24 MCAT. Is wasting hundreds, if not thousands of dollars worth it (with no guarantees) just because you don't want to retake the MCAT? It's up to you...but that's definitely not a smart move. Even getting a 26+ (whatever the new score equivalent of that is) will increase your chances by a lot because at least your application won't be automatically filtered out.

Also, the people who have gotten in with super low MCAT scores were examples from a few years ago. Like I said, the minimum requirements are increasing slightly every year. Maybe your 22 would have been enough to barely get you there a few years ago, but when you apply, it might not.
You might want to apply your VR section skills on a post from Dec 1, 2015 in this thread -_-
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
I definitely agree with most of the people on here, you should really retake the MCAT. All other aspects (EC, GPA, etc) are great. Why let a low MCAT score hinder your chances? Most schools will auto-reject your application because you don't meet their minimum, so they will never see your EC or experience, simply due to the fact that your application will never reach them. Also, it is true that you can increase your changes if you apply as early as possible, however, you're going to spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars trying to apply everywhere just for that once chance that you might get in somewhere, which is not guaranteed. And if you don't get it, you're just going to try again and again without retaking the MCAT? Med school requirements are getting more and more competitive. Your MCAT won't even make it for the most DO schools. I know someone who is struggling to get in with your similar EC and GPA but they have a 24 MCAT. Is wasting hundreds, if not thousands of dollars worth it (with no guarantees) just because you don't want to retake the MCAT? It's up to you...but that's definitely not a smart move. Even getting a 26+ (whatever the new score equivalent of that is) will increase your chances by a lot because at least your application won't be automatically filtered out.

Also, the people who have gotten in with super low MCAT scores were examples from a few years ago. Like I said, the minimum requirements are increasing slightly every year. Maybe your 22 would have been enough to barely get you there a few years ago, but when you apply, it might not.
Only on SDN does a med student tell another med student to take the MCAT again to get into medical school.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Keep your chin up and keep applying until u get in. Once u are in, help others because u will likely be a great resource to your peers.

Reading comprehension, people. The OP got into medical school 12/1/15 per post #70 above.
 
Top