I am sorely regretting joining an MSTP...any perspective?

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md(phd?)

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Hi all,

I have been lurking these forums for some time now as I struggle with the prospect of completing my PhD. I joined for the right reasons. I thought I wanted to be a physician scientist, though I don't know that I fully understood what that meant when I joined the program.

I enjoyed the first two years of medical school, particularly the times I got to be with patients in the clinic. My research rotations before first and second year were largely failed due to bad luck and not lack of effort.

My first year of PhD has been only modestly productive. I keep running in to stop signs, botched experiments, and attempts at experiments that are extremely low throughput and/or difficult. The only thing that is going well is a project one of the postdocs started and will be her primary authorship. When it's over, I don't know where I could possibly go with the project.

Furthermore, I miss the clinic and I miss patients. I was good at that - I connected with patients and worked them up well and made progress. On the other hand the PhD has been a completely demoralizing undertaking. I'm no good at it, and I can now say that there is no way in hell I want to maintain a basic science lab in the future at the expense of clinical service. I am staring down qualifying exams and writing an NRSA. I will feel like a fraud doing both of them.

If I woke up tomorrow and never had to do bench research again it would be like Christmas. I would take the loans on back tuition without batting an eye. The only thing holding me back is worrying about how this will ruin my prospects during the match. I have a competitive step I score and decent preclinical grades - I have no reason to believe I won't perform well in the clinic as this is generally where I shine most relative to my peers. Can anyone who has actually dropped out and gone back to clinic give me some insight? I feel like once (read: if) I bring this up with the program I will be a black sheep. But it's time to stop worrying about everyone else and do something for myself for once.

tl;dr: I am mediocre at best at research, I am good to great in the clinic, and I miss learning medicine. I don't want to be a basic scientist and finishing this out will take 4 more years if I'm lucky. Am I committing suicide in the match by dropping the program?

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Hi all,

I have been lurking these forums for some time now as I struggle with the prospect of completing my PhD. I joined for the right reasons. I thought I wanted to be a physician scientist, though I don't know that I fully understood what that meant when I joined the program.

I enjoyed the first two years of medical school, particularly the times I got to be with patients in the clinic. My research rotations before first and second year were largely failed due to bad luck and not lack of effort.

My first year of PhD has been only modestly productive. I keep running in to stop signs, botched experiments, and attempts at experiments that are extremely low throughput and/or difficult. The only thing that is going well is a project one of the postdocs started and will be her primary authorship. When it's over, I don't know where I could possibly go with the project.

Furthermore, I miss the clinic and I miss patients. I was good at that - I connected with patients and worked them up well and made progress. On the other hand the PhD has been a completely demoralizing undertaking. I'm no good at it, and I can now say that there is no way in hell I want to maintain a basic science lab in the future at the expense of clinical service. I am staring down qualifying exams and writing an NRSA. I will feel like a fraud doing both of them. My heart isn't in it.

I've discussed this with my girlfriend of a few years - the only person I can really be honest with about it. She knows I am unhappy, and it is straining our relationship. I need to do something about it.

I have a sense of duty to the people who have gotten me to this place, and the program that has facilitated me. But if I woke up tomorrow and never had to do bench research again it would be like Christmas. I would take the loans on back tuition without batting an eye. The only thing holding me back is worrying about how this will ruin my prospects during the match. I have a pretty good step I score (245-255 range) and decent preclinical grades (curriculum is mostly P/F had honors here and there) - I have no reason to believe I won't perform well in the clinic as this is generally where I shine most relative to my peers. Can anyone who has actually dropped out and gone back to clinic give me some insight? I feel like once (read: if) I bring this up with the program I will be a black sheep. But it's time to stop worrying about everyone else and do something for myself for once.

Back to trying to patch together the lab meeting I have to give tomorrow.

tl;dr: I am mediocre at best at research, I am good to great in the clinic, and I miss learning medicine. I don't want to be a basic scientist and finishing this out will take 4 more years if I'm lucky. Am I committing suicide in the match by dropping the program?


It is normal to feel down. Grad school, particularly in year 2 when you have a long time to go, your friends are matching, you're struggling to get a project off the ground, etc. can be a very challenging year. That said, you seem much sadder about it than others, and very secure in your conviction that science is not right for you. The loans kinda suck, but honestly, I advocate quitting. Particularly if you are repaying loans, while that sucks for you, you don't really owe anybody anything, since you are going to retroactively pay for the MSTP's support. I don't recommend concerning yourself with what other people think. You have to do what is best for you.

There are numerous threads on here from other people who have dropped out. The consensus is that it won't hurt you too much if you continue to excel in med school. Nice work on step 1. Just spin it as "I loved clinical medicine so much that I absolutely have to do it for the rest of my life". If you get good MS3 grades you will do excellent in the match.
 
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I don't even think you're at the typical low point for most MD/PhD students. If your entering class is rounding the corner on M3 and heading into M4 in 3 months, a year from now you're going to be miserable. Honestly, if I were in your shoes, I'd bail out now. You can spin it a million good ways and only a few bad ways. You don't want what an MD/PhD can (not will, but can) give you as a career. You don't need it.

I had the same revelation as you, only it was in the last 6 months of my research fellowship. Save yourself 4 or 5 years and get out now.
 
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Thanks for your responses. I know what I need to do. Not going to be pretty but I have to do it.
 
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It's usually not as "ugly" as people make it out to be in their minds.
 
If you feel ****ty now less than a year in, I foresee you feeling absolutely terrible in 3-4 years. Virtually all PhDs have "low times" but it doesn't sound like you will do well when it really gets low, and odds are it will get worse before better. But what the heck do I know - maybe you are just in a temporary rut and will have a splendid science career... or not.
 
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