I am worried about the high cost of my pharmacy school. considering dropping out or transferring

[Starsintheskye]

hey guys,

My pharmacy school costs $43k a year, which is unwarranted considering the quality of education I've received so far. It's been good on orientation day and the month following, but after that staff has been lazy. The open door policy they claim actually doesn't exist--most professors are hard to reach, and everything is crammed in during an 8 hour class session. Everyone goes home after classes are done. I don't think it's responsible to gamble away $200k just for education.

On top of that I have been looking for pharmacy intern positions and it has been extremely tough. I was rejected from one company already after a phone interview. I am still trying, but there are only a few number of chains that you can work for. If you get rejected from one recruiter then it makes it that much harder to find something.

I am not sure if I should just drop out now, or find a cheaper pharmacy school to enroll in?...There are some in the mid U.S that are only 23k a year.

Honestly, I don't know what's going to happen after I get my degree, $200k in debt, and can't find a job because I have no pharmacy experience. Why should I pay this much money for an education when my colleague only has to pay $90k and we both have the same salary/job? .... I feel like I am ruining my life by going this much into debt.

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[zelman]

agreed

 

[Momus]

hey guys,

My pharmacy school costs $43k a year, which is unwarranted considering the quality of education I've received so far. It's been good on orientation day and the month following, but after that staff has been lazy. The open door policy they claim actually doesn't exist--most professors are hard to reach, and everything is crammed in during an 8 hour class session. Everyone goes home after classes are done. I don't think it's responsible to gamble away $200k just for education.

On top of that I have been looking for pharmacy intern positions and it has been extremely tough. I was rejected from one company already after a phone interview. I am still trying, but there are only a few number of chains that you can work for. If you get rejected from one recruiter then it makes it that much harder to find something.

I am not sure if I should just drop out now, or find a cheaper pharmacy school to enroll in?...There are some in the mid U.S that are only 23k a year.

Honestly, I don't know what's going to happen after I get my degree, $200k in debt, and can't find a job because I have no pharmacy experience. Why should I pay this much money for an education when my colleague only has to pay $90k and we both have the same salary/job? .... I feel like I am ruining my life by going this much into debt.

Look into engineering degree. 4 yrs. About same salary. Or comp sci. Less loan.

 

[Starsintheskye]

Look into engineering degree. 4 yrs. About same salary. Or comp sci. Less loan.

I don't really like either of those. However, I really wish I could have prepared more for a computer science degree in high school and whatnot... I feel like everything is just going to waste. I hate the location of my pharmacy school and I feel like I am down grading my life. It doesn't seem worth it to me anymore.

 

[Reirrac]

For me I applied for open positions everywhere, be it hospital or retail. I got my foot in the door by starting out as a med delivery (before applying to pharm school). In your case there may be tech positions that needs to be filled periodically depending on the turnover rate.

I would check every company website and see if there are open positions available; that's how I got my current intern position. In practice there isn't a huge difference between techs and interns, a seasoned technician transitioning to a pharmacist would be quite a valuable asset.

If you're thinking about quitting, consider thinking back what drove you to pursue pharmacy. The debt burden is a valid concern, but people do manage and live with it using all options at their disposal.

In the end, it all comes down to graduating, getting a license, having work experience, and your willingness to relocate to staff those open (and hopefully permanent) positions. Once you have some rph work experience, then you can look into getting other open positions at the locations you want. But I'm sure you heard this before.

 

[Rockinacoustic]

Did you consider you'll be losing a year's RPh salary if you transfer? You'd have to start over from 1st year in 99.9% of cases.

 

[W19]

Look into engineering degree. 4 yrs. About same salary. Or comp sci. Less loan.

Not all engineers work for YAHOO, GOOGLE, APPLE etc... Getting 100k+ on your first job as an engineer is almost impossible. Most start out making 40k-60k/year... In fact, if you look at salary surveys for engineers, there is probably less than 25% of engineers who are making 100k+/year... I agree with you on the loan, which is outrageous for a lot of these professional careers in healthcare...

 

[Sugoi Travis]

In terms of intern positions, where have you been applying with respect to the distance from pharmacy school? If you're applying anywhere within 5-20 miles from campus, you're too close IMO and you'll be competing with other students like you. My pharmacy is around 30 miles away from campus; when I applied for the position, I got a physical interview within 24 hours of submitting my application and got hired on the spot. However, I attribute my situation to an astronomical amount of luck involved.

 

[PharmtoCS]

I don't really like either of those. However, I really wish I could have prepared more for a computer science degree in high school and whatnot... I feel like everything is just going to waste. I hate the location of my pharmacy school and I feel like I am down grading my life. It doesn't seem worth it to me anymore.

Have you looked into finance careers? You can get a decent return on investment for your education in those fields other than engineering and computers.

 

[trailerpark]

OP, I honestly feel your pain. I went to LECOM Erie which has an horrendous reputation on here, but I went because I wanted to go to a school that was of course accredited, but more important the cheapest school I could find! I'm from NY and Lecom was actually cheaper than UB when you figured the 3 yr vs 4 yr and I'm glad I made the choice of school based on cost because I couldn't imagine having any more debt than I do and I already have a lot (closer to 150k than 200k). I moved out of PA and Erie was just 3 years of my life, but loans are a lot longer so find the cheapest route to your career and cheers n good luck!

 

[oldstock]

^^ agreed with the above : computer, engineering, finance... if you don't like those and still wanna do healthcare, there are other healthcare professions like nursing, NP, PA, dental, medical, etc.

but if you still wanna do pharmacy, stay where you are... you will have to repeat as a P1 if you transfer...

 

[MatCauthon]

Many, many students on this forum they all believe their loans are going to be just forgiven away. The new IBR programs are already veering that way. Many people are already gaming the system to avoid the big tax drop after 20 years. Given that most people in the country don't even have an emergency fund saved, is the US government really expecting that people make do on 150-200k plus tax bills after their IBR is up?

I made a USC thread a couple months ago talking about how USC pharmacy tuition could add up to 378k after 4 years. In reality, that number probably doesn't even matter that much because someone on an IBR program would never pay back the full principle anyway.

Student loans suck, and I have been paying them the traditional way. It is not a fun thing. However, some of these IBR programs are like a joke compared to the hard efforts I have been making. I would probably finish what you started at this point. Explore your options such as IBR, and it may not be as bad as you think it is.

 

[BMBiology]

Just to clarify...with IBR/PAYE, you would have to pay income tax on the amount that is forgiven (expect around 30% tax) so there is really no saving. The bottom line is that you will have to pay more in the long run.

The only benefit is PSLF. After 10 years, everything is forgiven...tax free. However, the obama administration has already proposed capping the forgiven amount to just 57.5 k.

 

[MatCauthon]

Just to clarify...with IBR/PAYE, you would have to pay income tax on the amount that is forgiven (expect around 30% tax) so there is really no saving. The bottom line is that you will have to pay more in the long run.

The only benefit is PSLF. After 10 years, everything is forgiven...tax free. However, the obama administration has already proposed capping the forgiven amount to just 57.5 k.

These are the official rules, but how many people are actually going to be able to afford the taxman? Some of these students are taking out 300k plus in student loans and only paying 1200/month on their loans. That payment doesn't even cover the original principle. I don't want to deal with it, but it seems clear to me that their is going to be a huge shortfall if the government ever decides to collect on that taxbill.

Here is the math that Monsterdaddy so helpfully posted in the USC thread. "So $365K loan balance at 7% interest would be about $25K which minus $14K in annual payments is a net increase in accrued interest of about $11K per year. So after 20 years that's almost a $600K balance to be forgiven.
If legislation has changed or he doesn't take an insolvency exemption, at a top tax bracket of 39.6% -- probably an effective tax rate of about 30-35% then the tax bill should be about $200K. But then again $200K 20 years from now with inflation and investing the difference for 20 years is likely a good outcome for anyone."

I still question how many people could actually afford a 200k tax bill. If you read the forums here, there are many doctors devising ways to never have to pay that tax. I'm don't want to take that risk, but those options are out there.

 

[Transformer]

Just to clarify...with IBR/PAYE, you would have to pay income tax on the amount that is forgiven (expect around 30% tax) so there is really no saving. The bottom line is that you will have to pay more in the long run.

The only benefit is PSLF. After 10 years, everything is forgiven...tax free. However, the obama administration has already proposed capping the forgiven amount to just 57.5 k.

When do we find out if the proposed cap gets approved or not? Probably right before 2017?

 

[Monsterdaddy]

FFS!!! Yes, the forgiveness programs are likely to change BUT current borrowers will be grandfathered!!!

As of now, there is no legislation at all planning changes to forgiveness programs. My guess it will be in 2018-2019 after a few people actually get forgiveness and there is an outcry, if any. If forgiveness vs. interest income is insignificant, probably nothing will happen for years.

Also as an FYI, it is really really easy to get the insolvency exclusion for people looking at the 20-25 year forgiveness. One method for people having kids who will have graduated or be in college when forgiveness hits -- ParentPLUS loans. Those folks probably were planning on massive borrowing anyways so no change in behavior.

 

[W19]

These are the official rules, but how many people are actually going to be able to afford the taxman? Some of these students are taking out 300k plus in student loans and only paying 1200/month on their loans. That payment doesn't even cover the original principle. I don't want to deal with it, but it seems clear to me that their is going to be a huge shortfall if the government ever decides to collect on that taxbill.

Here is the math that Monsterdaddy so helpfully posted in the USC thread. "So $365K loan balance at 7% interest would be about $25K which minus $14K in annual payments is a net increase in accrued interest of about $11K per year. So after 20 years that's almost a $600K balance to be forgiven.
If legislation has changed or he doesn't take an insolvency exemption, at a top tax bracket of 39.6% -- probably an effective tax rate of about 30-35% then the tax bill should be about $200K. But then again $200K 20 years from now with inflation and investing the difference for 20 years is likely a good outcome for anyone."

I still question how many people could actually afford a 200k tax bill. If you read the forums here, there are many doctors devising ways to never have to pay that tax. I'm don't want to take that risk, but those options are out there.

That does not seem to be a good deal to me...

 

[BMBiology]

These are the official rules, but how many people are actually going to be able to afford the taxman? Some of these students are taking out 300k plus in student loans and only paying 1200/month on their loans. That payment doesn't even cover the original principle. I don't want to deal with it, but it seems clear to me that their is going to be a huge shortfall if the government ever decides to collect on that taxbill.

Here is the math that Monsterdaddy so helpfully posted in the USC thread. "So $365K loan balance at 7% interest would be about $25K which minus $14K in annual payments is a net increase in accrued interest of about $11K per year. So after 20 years that's almost a $600K balance to be forgiven.
If legislation has changed or he doesn't take an insolvency exemption, at a top tax bracket of 39.6% -- probably an effective tax rate of about 30-35% then the tax bill should be about $200K. But then again $200K 20 years from now with inflation and investing the difference for 20 years is likely a good outcome for anyone."

I still question how many people could actually afford a 200k tax bill. If you read the forums here, there are many doctors devising ways to never have to pay that tax. I'm don't want to take that risk, but those options are out there.

You are right with the government losing money with all of these forgiveness programs. However, I don't think the borrowers will get off easily when their tax bill is due. The IRS will go after all of their assets including their retirement funds like 401 k, Roth IRA. They can even go after their social security.

They will work their butt off for the next 20-25 years and will have nothing to show for. Years ago people avoided paying their student loan by declaring bankruptcy. Congress closed it. Same thing will happen if people abuse the system. 20 years is a long time. There is no way to plan for something like this.

 

[BMBiology]

FFS!!! Yes, the forgiveness programs are likely to change BUT current borrowers will be grandfathered!!!

As of now, there is no legislation at all planning changes to forgiveness programs. My guess it will be in 2018-2019 after a few people actually get forgiveness and there is an outcry, if any. If forgiveness vs. interest income is insignificant, probably nothing will happen for years.

Also as an FYI, it is really really easy to get the insolvency exclusion for people looking at the 20-25 year forgiveness. One method for people having kids who will have graduated or be in college when forgiveness hits -- ParentPLUS loans. Those folks probably were planning on massive borrowing anyways so no change in behavior.

You keep on saying people will be grandfathered in like it is already a fact, even tho the department of education has stated on their website that things can change and there is no guarantee.

 

[rxwaiting]

Honestly, I don't know what's going to happen after I get my degree, $200k in debt, and can't find a job because I have no pharmacy experience. Why should I pay this much money for an education when my colleague only has to pay $90k and we both have the same salary/job? .... I feel like I am ruining my life by going this much into debt.

Whats stopping you from just dropping right now? Is it because quitting is bad? Do you really love pharmacy? Answer those before spending tuition again. Job will be more scarce, but do-able.

Good luck.

 

[Monsterdaddy]

You keep on saying people will be grandfathered in like it is already a fact, even tho the department of education has stated on their website that things can change and there is no guarantee.

You still clinging to their website FAQ??? LOL, I have a legal document called a Master Promissory Note. Plus legal expertise, a few lawyers opinions and Dept of Ed spokespeople who affirmed grandfathering.

Being high on your butthurt must keep you happy.

 

[MatCauthon]

These IBR programs are a sham. The example that MonsterDaddy provided shows a loss of 400k by the US government. Who is going to pay for this? There are going to have to be changes or this whole program is going to go defunct. Also remember that IBR programs also subsidize interest on interest, so the government is actually losing way more than 400k in the 350k student loan example.

Also, if they cap the student loan forgiveness at 57k I wonder how they would deal with the balance after 20 years. The example of the USC student would have them left with 540k in payments after 20 years. What are they supposed to do, go on another IBR program for another 20 years?

Unless the government starts raking away 401ks and cutting social security they are never going to get this money back. I forsee a big problem. I hope it gets fixed sooner than later because this is the very issue that will precipitate the student loan bubble that Mark Cuban is talking about. Schools are never going to reform tuition prices until they stop getting free handouts.

There is a lot to think about here and I don't think anyone really knows what is going to happen.

 

[BMBiology]

You still clinging to their website FAQ??? LOL, I have a legal document called a Master Promissory Note. Plus legal expertise, a few lawyers opinions and Dept of Ed spokespeople who affirmed grandfathering.

Being high on your butthurt must keep you happy.

Who are your legal experts again?? Those bloggers with a mountain of student loan debt?

You don't think lawyers working for the Department of Education also looked at it? I would rather listen to them than your so called legal experts.

Unlike you, I didn't go to a new school with high tuition. That is the choice you made. The taxpayers should have to pay for your financial decision and I have a feeling we wont.

What is your plan B if things don't work out as planned?

 

[BMBiology]

These IBR programs are a sham. The example that MonsterDaddy provided shows a loss of 400k by the US government. Who is going to pay for this? There are going to have to be changes or this whole program is going to go defunct.

Anyone who thinks the government is going to make a profit from student loan is ignorant of the fact. The proposals from the Obama administration are clear indication that changes are coming. My guess is that they are going to force people with high income and high student loan to pay more into the system. That is the only way.

Don't think the government can't change the rules in the middle of the game? The government just allowed pensions to be cut. Something that was once unimaginable: http://money.cnn.com/2014/12/22/retirement/pension-cut/

 

[Monsterdaddy]

Seriously, for a person with a Doctorate please stop embarrassing yourself and acting like a *****. Since, I know all you can do is keep repeating yourself I'll just post for the sake of giving out the correct information.

Profitability
Looking at just forgiveness in a vacuum is ridiculous. Do you think a bank getting one loan default would declare their loan program a total disaster? No, its just the cost of doing business. In the same vein, the education loan program as a whole is the proper perspective and the CBO has estimated that with defaults included, the Dept of Ed will earn $125 BILLION over the next ten years (Google the report). So that $125 BILLION needs to be weighed against the expected forgiveness before any taxpayer has to cough up a dime. Since the purpose of the program is NOT to turn a profit, I'd say the program can handle a significant amount of forgiveness.

Grandfathering
Look at your Master Promissory Notes for the clauses on PSLF and other forgiveness (check the Borrower's RIGHTS section). This is a legal document you signed and forms a contract and its two way street. (And bloggers who are also LAWYERS, well, I believe they meet the definition of LEGAL EXPERT.) Grandfathering is a legal concept to protect those who relied on a statute should the statute change in the future. Doesn't mean the law can't change, it means you can pull a fast one on someone.

Unless a greater harm would occur (like a pension's imminent insolvency), courts will protect those who relied on a law (this is precedence too). But the loan program cannot go insolvent.

 

[Monsterdaddy]

Time Value of Money
I have an MBA (from a top 10 school) and did plenty of NPV analyses but the concept is simple. Let's take my personal example. I borrowed $275K today for school. I make $4K annual payments for 20 years plus I don't go insolvent in year 20 and get hit with $600K in taxable income causing my taxes due to increase by $200K. Well, add it up. My total payments are $280K vs. my borrowings of $275K, pretty much a wash over 20 years.

Time value of money is basically a concept that it is better to have money today than later because you can invest/earn interest on it. Let's say I have an extra $5K to invest or pay down the loan (on top of the required $4K payment).

A) If I pay the loan down, that extra $100K over 20 years only reduces my final tax bill by $40K so now I have repaid $340K.

B) But what if instead I invest that $5K at 5% interest over 20 years. At the end of 20 years I have $175K ($100K invested plus accrued interest 5% over 20 years). Now I repaid $280K but I got $175K invested. Not bad at all, you are now $235K richer than the person in scenario A.

Pretty simple math. The conclusion is to NOT FEAR the big tax bill at the end. Put your money into 401k's and IRAs!

 

[Monsterdaddy]

These IBR programs are a sham. The example that MonsterDaddy provided shows a loss of 400k by the US government.

Mat, that isn't how the accounting works. In that example, $365K was borrowed, $14K x 20 years of interest was paid. The net loss is $85K. Basically, the accrued interest is reversed.

Plus the IRS bill (in another account) will grow by $200K. That's a total of $480K repaid to the government.

Let's change it a bit, say he repays $20K per year. Now the final tally is a profit of $35K for the loan (plus the IRS bill).

I hope all of the above posts helps change your perspective from silly rhetoric to what actually happens.

 

[BMBiology]

I have an MBA (from a top 10 school) and did plenty of NPV analyses but the concept is simple. Let's take my personal example. I borrowed $275K today for school.

Wait a minute..so you have an MBA from a "top 10 school" but you borrowed $275 k just so you can work as a pharmacist? Seriously, where did you get your MBA?

Mat, that isn't how the accounting works. In that example, $365K was borrowed, $14K x 20 years of interest was paid. The net loss is $85K. Basically, the accrued interest is reversed. Plus the IRS bill (in another account) will grow by $200K. That's a total of $480K repaid to the government.

First, you are assuming that person will be paying $14 k a year for 20 years. What if this person can't find full employment? What if this person doesn't make an effort to pay off his student loans?

Second, you are assuming this person will have the money to pay the $200 k IRS tax bill.

Third, you are assuming there is no such thing as inflation.

Forth, getting the government's initial investment back is not good enough. The government needs to make a strong profit just to cover the cost of people who will default on their student loans.

That's the whole problem with your business model. It doesn't take risk into consideration.

 

[Rockinacoustic]

Anyone else think BMBiology has DID and 5 alter-ego accounts he fights or backs himself with?

 

[Monsterdaddy]

Wait a minute..so you have an MBA from a "top 10 school" but you borrowed $275 k just so you can work as a pharmacist? Seriously, where did you get your MBA?

ROFL, wow that was sooo seriously LAME.

And FYI, it was Darden at UVa and borrowing $275K to repay only $65K is a pretty damn good deal. You don't need an MBA to figure that one out.

And for the rest of your ridiculous argument, it just proves you have no concept of what risk mitigation is. You do realize that if he/she is unemployed that the IBR/PAYE loan payment goes to zero. And while the tax bill is bigger in 20 years, it's far more likely he/she can claim the insolvency exclusion. Ergo, the entire amount of payments/taxes = ZERO.

So how does that sound for risk mitigation???

(For folks thinking about those private lenders refinancing your student loans, realize that the above risk mitigation won't be available to you. The private lenders don't need to give you a deferral or forbearance.)

 

[BMBiology]

^^ that is exactly why changes are coming to PAYE and IBR. The tax payers will be stuck with the bill.

We both agree that changes are coming. The only part we disagree about is whether or not it will be retroactive. Look at the proposals coming from the obama administration and from congress.

BTW, UVA is not a top 10 business school LOL. Too bad your pharmacy school is new but I am sure it is ranked within the top 100

 

[Monsterdaddy]

And I thought ***** was being too harsh before. Nope, you keeping proving how dumb you are. I shouldn't be surprised coming from someone who bases their arguments on website FAQs.

University of Virginia Darden School of Business

• #3 (North America) - The Economist 2013
• #3 (Global) - The Economist 2014
• #9 - Forbes 2011
• #10 Business Week 2012
• #11 Bloomberg Business Week 2014
• #11 U.S. News & World Report 2014

 

[Monsterdaddy]

^^ that is exactly why changes are coming to PAYE and IBR. The tax payers will be stuck with the bill.

My example of a person who cannot get employed and gets forgiveness is analogous to a person who defaults. There is no difference and therefore there isn't any basis to make changes to the forgiveness program for that scenario.

I will reiterate again, taxpayers do not pay a dime until forgiveness/defaults exceed the interest paid to the program.

 

[BMBiology]

[*]#11 Bloomberg Business Week 2014
[*]#11 U.S. News & World Report 2014
[/LIST]

This. Who looks at ranking that is 2 years old?

Don't be too sensitive now. No name calling too. SDN doesn't like it.

 

[BMBiology]

My example of a person who cannot get employed and gets forgiveness is analogous to a person who defaults. There is no difference and therefore there isn't any basis to make changes to the forgiveness program for that scenario.

I will reiterate again, taxpayers do not pay a dime until forgiveness/defaults exceed the interest paid to the program.

You keep on assuming these forgiveness programs don't cause tuition to go up and don't encourage people to borrow 3x their salary.

Like I said before. If you think you are going to repay $X amount, why does it matter what is the tuition? It encourages schools to keep on raising their tuition. It encourages people to borrow more than they actually need. Cost is no longer a factor. This is exactly why the tax payers will be stuck with the bill.

Are you sure you you went to a business school?

 

[Monsterdaddy]

It's useless to discuss anything you since your arguments are all over the place and lack logic as evidenced by your inability to keep the issues separate and discrete. Your answers are circular rehashing of questions asked and answered but obviously incomprehensible to you.

 

[BMBiology]

^^ your lack understanding of the student loan bubble is troubling.

 

[Sugoi Travis]

Before reading this thread, I had major plans to (assuming I get hired on in the company I currently intern at) pay off my student debt ASAP. After reading, I feel like I'd be a fool to pay it off immediately and instead go on some 10+ year repayment program. I thought it was a smart financial idea to pay off the debt as fast as possible, but now I'm not so sure. Maybe I'm missing something...?

 

[sakigt]

You are, youre missing the risk.

Im depending on the government for paying off my student loans no more than Im relying on them to give me SS income when I hit 65, or 67, or 85 the way its going.

 

[knight on horse]

You are right with the government losing money with all of these forgiveness programs. However, I don't think the borrowers will get off easily when their tax bill is due. The IRS will go after all of their assets including their retirement funds like 401 k, Roth IRA. They can even go after their social security.

They will work their butt off for the next 20-25 years and will have nothing to show for. Years ago people avoided paying their student loan by declaring bankruptcy. Congress closed it. Same thing will happen if people abuse the system. 20 years is a long time. There is no way to plan for something like this.

Are you sure there will still be Social Security in 30-40 years

 

[knight on horse]

Anyway, if people are really so cleverly gaming their loans then they should have gone into finance. Feed at the trough while the gettin's good

 

[Momus]

Are you sure there will still be Social Security in 30-40 years

I bet $1M it will still be available when you are on your death bed. Benefits reduced? 100% sure. Cut out completely? Nope.

 

[Momus]

MBA but not working as a VP or higher up, just to be a regular manager/PDM/hospital director is a waste of money.

 

[PharmDCandidate2014]

hey guys,

My pharmacy school costs $43k a year, which is unwarranted considering the quality of education I've received so far. It's been good on orientation day and the month following, but after that staff has been lazy. The open door policy they claim actually doesn't exist--most professors are hard to reach, and everything is crammed in during an 8 hour class session. Everyone goes home after classes are done. I don't think it's responsible to gamble away $200k just for education.

On top of that I have been looking for pharmacy intern positions and it has been extremely tough. I was rejected from one company already after a phone interview. I am still trying, but there are only a few number of chains that you can work for. If you get rejected from one recruiter then it makes it that much harder to find something.

I am not sure if I should just drop out now, or find a cheaper pharmacy school to enroll in?...There are some in the mid U.S that are only 23k a year.

Honestly, I don't know what's going to happen after I get my degree, $200k in debt, and can't find a job because I have no pharmacy experience. Why should I pay this much money for an education when my colleague only has to pay $90k and we both have the same salary/job? .... I feel like I am ruining my life by going this much into debt.

Bite the bullet. Go to medical school. If you don't like gore, psychiatry, radiology oncology, among other specialties, will keep you in work for a long time. Pharmacy used to provide a secure and satisfying career - that is no longer the case. Heck, even podiatry and NP now have higher standards than pharmacy school admissions.

Here is a GPA admissions trend (rough ballpark) for different health care careers:
3.5 < GPA < 4.0: apply to medical school
3.2 < GPA < 4.0: apply to dental school
3.0 < GPA < 4.0: apply to podiatry, PA, nursing school (*edit*)
GPA < 3.0: apply to pharmacy school

Pharmacy school used to be a respected profession where scholastic merit, i.e., GPA in the medical school range was an actual requirement to get in. It is no longer the case, as many schools have opened and accepted subpar candidates willing to donate $150K+ of tuition, diluting the quality of the profession. Ask any preceptor on SDN or even at your local Wags, they'll definitely agree that pharmacy as a profession has been compromised due to the lack of a presence in Washington DC, free market greed in higher education, and delusional pre-pharmers with terrible work ethics thinking they're immune from today's economics.

Wouldn't you feel terrible being lumped into the same group of people who struggled in college? In an extreme sense, it's socialism in disguise! I wish you well in whatever you decide to do, but I'm here to tell it like it is.

 

[BidingMyTime]

Time Value of Money
B) But what if instead I invest that $5K at 5% interest over 20 years. At the end of 20 years I have $175K ($100K invested plus accrued interest 5% over 20 years). Now I repaid $280K but I got $175K invested. Not bad at all, you are now $235K richer than the person in scenario A.
Pretty simple math. The conclusion is to NOT FEAR the big tax bill at the end. Put your money into 401k's and IRAs!

The problem is, 95% of people aren't that smart. People hear, hey "I don't have to pay back my loans...woo hoo, kegger tonight!". Many people have 0 savings, many people little or nothing in their IRA or retirement account, and they will have no money to pay any taxes *if* they actually did get their loan forgiven. And the government WILL garnish their SS (they already are of some seniors who were foolish enough to retire with college loan debt.), and they will end up living in a van down by the river.

My fiscal advice....pay off college debt ASAP (while at the same time contributing a reasonable amount to IRA & emergency savings.) It may not be the most lucrative route, but it is the least riskiest.

 

[68quebec]

I was actually 3.2 to get in. of course, I have a lot of extracurricular, leadership, work, volunteer, shadowing experience though =/

Here is a GPA admissions trend (rough ballpark) for different health care careers:
3.5 < GPA < 4.0: apply to medical school
3.2 < GPA < 4.0: apply to dental school
3.0 < GPA < 4.0: apply to podiatry, PA, nursing school (*edit*)
GPA < 3.0: apply to pharmacy school

 

[knight on horse]

I bet $1M it will still be available when you are on your death bed. Benefits reduced? 100% sure. Cut out completely? Nope.

Now, what makes you so sure, besides unwarranted optimism, that such a scenario will be true i.e. on my deathbed, I have been benefiting from Social Security since age 65 and with no new strings attached

With the disappearance of the old generation, loss of civic culture, and the whole point of our present exercise to eradicate the middle class, there'll simply be no need in the eyes of the rulers to waste money on undesirables

That said, it may be prudent to throw a bone to the existing population for as long as possible, let them go quietly into the good night, to lessen the impetus for pushback against elite policy. In that case Social Security will merely disappear after I'm gone