I ask myself ... why not DO school?

[DamanTHFC]

As I near closer and closer to my MCAT retake date, I am getting more and more anxious and worried.
This will be my second time around (first time I got a 21 ... 7,5,9)

My first preference quite frankly has been MD ... I honestly don't know why ... maybe influence around me, maybe pressure because I'm Indian, or maybe that I just don't know much about DOs.

If worst comes to worst, after the retake ... I feel I would again have to sit down and consider a 3rd retake or other options. And this is where DO comes in my life. Over these past months of studying, I have frequently tried to grasp more about the essence of DOs. Marred by the stigma around it - primarily due to poor ignorance - I have never really considered DO much before.

I have come to realize that if not MD, then why not DO?
After all medicine is what I really want, not the initials. I mean, atm it seems to me that DO is almost the same thing as MD, except in DO you have another trick up your sleeves .... the musculoskeletal approach, which is great!

But, I still don't know if DO is a fit for me ... I hope so, but still unsure.
So how do I find out if it is?
I guess I'll start by a lot of DO Shadowing, which I'll do after the MCAT.

Anyway, I just brought this up hoping that I'll get views from people who are or have been in a similar boat.
I really don't want to solely consider DO if I can't make it to MD ... but I would ultimately, like to consider it due to my inclination and appreciate of DO.

As an aside, my GPA is 3.74 with decent research, letters, ECs (which I want to build even more and dedicate time towards, hence why I have taken a gap year), etc. It's just the MCAT causing me all this trouble and self-reflecting.

Thanks.

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[Elevencents]

MD and DO both lead to the same end - a physician. It sounds like you are having trouble coming to grips with the initials more than anything.

 

[SurgeDO]

as someone who attends a school with an MD and DO program, from the bottom of my heart, it really, really, really, really, really does not matter.

what is the deal with all these posts lately?

 

[Mr Kenobi]

as someone who attends a school with an MD and DO program, from the bottom of my heart, it really, really, really, really, really does not matter.

what is the deal with all these posts lately?

lol

 

[Dr. Zombie]

As I near closer and closer to my MCAT retake date, I am getting more and more anxious and worried.
This will be my second time around (first time I got a 21 ... 7,5,9)

My first preference quite frankly has been MD ... I honestly don't know why ... maybe influence around me, maybe pressure because I'm Indian, or maybe that I just don't know much about DOs.

If worst comes to worst, after the retake ... I feel I would again have to sit down and consider a 3rd retake or other options. And this is where DO comes in my life. Over these past months of studying, I have frequently tried to grasp more about the essence of DOs. Marred by the stigma around it - primarily due to poor ignorance - I have never really considered DO much before.

I have come to realize that if not MD, then why not DO?
After all medicine is what I really want, not the initials. I mean, atm it seems to me that DO is almost the same thing as MD, except in DO you have another trick up your sleeves .... the musculoskeletal approach, which is great!

But, I still don't know if DO is a fit for me ... I hope so, but still unsure.
So how do I find out if it is?
I guess I'll start by a lot of DO Shadowing, which I'll do after the MCAT.

Anyway, I just brought this up hoping that I'll get views from people who are or have been in a similar boat.
I really don't want to solely consider DO if I can't make it to MD ... but I would ultimately, like to consider it due to my inclination and appreciate of DO.

As an aside, my GPA is 3.74 with decent research, letters, ECs (which I want to build even more and dedicate time towards, hence why I have taken a gap year), etc. It's just the MCAT causing me all this trouble and self-reflecting.

Thanks.

Please read my thread "DO vs CaribMD" a few lines below this one. It will answer all your questions. Thank you.

 

[DamanTHFC]

as someone who attends a school with an MD and DO program, from the bottom of my heart, it really, really, really, really, really does not matter.

what is the deal with all these posts lately?

Exactly, that's how I feel ... it's just 2 things.
1. As you mentioned, I too have noticed more people questioning and sort of doubting DO ... not just on SDN.
2. Morally I don't want to feel that I am choosing DO if I become a MD failure (if you get what I'm saying) ... I just want to be involved with it for its appreciation, which thanks posts from people like @Dr. Zombie ... I am starting to feel.

 

[MDforMee]

You'd better feel reality in a big way, homie. With a 21 on the MCAT you're not headed anywhere but DO.

 

[TXKnight]

Like elevencents said... I think your issue is not about being a "good fit" with the DO philosophy or even understanding the "essence" of it. You are doubting, mainly, those two letters after your name, hence the insecurity. Don't let family/cultural pressure dictate your future, read on DO, shadow one, and you'll realize the great and noble tradition of osteopathic medicine. From what I hear, your peers won't care where you graduated from (unless they are surgeons, of course). Become a good physician and let your skill speak for you.

 

[darklabel]

Seems like a lot of doubt. Plenty of people feel this way but don't post about on SDN because... this has been talked about to death!

Want to be a physician? Go DO
Want to go MD? work on that MCAT, take more years off,anything that will just keep adding up years.

And the whole indian family pressure to become an MD is nothing new. You can choose to ignore it or become a slave to your parent's disappointment and feel bad that their special snowflake isn't going to be an MD, your choice. From what I've seen though, a lot of people are forced into the latter and either go CarribMD or keep trying unsuccessfully for years.

Btw, odds of your stats getting into an MD school is ~7.6%
https://www.aamc.org/download/321516/data/2012factstable25-3.pdf

Good luck

 

[BestDoctorEver]

You'd better feel reality in a big way, homie. With a 21 on the MCAT you're not headed anywhere but DO.

Lawl

 

[guylewis]

You'd better feel reality in a big way, homie. With a 21 on the MCAT you're not headed anywhere but DO.

I'm curious as to what DO school accepts someone who has a 21 on the MCAT? or someone who got a score of 5 VR? or a PS score under 8? he'd be autoscreened out of most schools that I can think of. not to mention he isn't an URM so he's pretty much got the Carribbean or an MCAT retake in his future. I even think Liberty is a reach with that albatross around his neck. sorry for the bluntness.

 

[NurWollen]

It seems lately the Osteo sub-forums have gotten more pessimistic and negative. There was a time a few application cycles ago when the mantra was, "DO=MD." Now that mantra is "go MD if you can, because being a DO is a huge disadvantage." I dunno, the mood has changed. I think the common program requirements/merger/failed merger debacle might have something to do with it.

 

[MedWonk]

It seems lately the Osteo sub-forums have gotten more pessimistic and negative. There was a time a few application cycles ago when the mantra was, "DO=MD." Now that mantra is "go MD if you can, because being a DO is a huge disadvantage." I dunno, the mood has changed. I think the common program requirements/merger/failed merger debacle might have something to do with it.

Plus Liberty getting accreditation didn't exactly improve the image of DO schools on this site.

 

[dramatrauma]

You'd better feel reality in a big way, homie. With a 21 on the MCAT you're not headed anywhere but DO.

Haha! So eloquently worded.

 

[user3]

I'm curious as to what DO school accepts someone who has a 21 on the MCAT? or someone who got a score of 5 VR? or a PS score under 8? he'd be autoscreened out of most schools that I can think of. not to mention he isn't an URM so he's pretty much got the Carribbean or an MCAT retake in his future. I even think Liberty is a reach with that albatross around his neck. sorry for the bluntness.

3.74/21 may have a chance at LUCOM, PNWU, WVSOM, KYCOM, LMU, PCOM-GA, WCU, or VCOM (yes, some of these are regional).

 

[guylewis]

It seems lately the Osteo sub-forums have gotten more pessimistic and negative. There was a time a few application cycles ago when the mantra was, "DO=MD." Now that mantra is "go MD if you can, because being a DO is a huge disadvantage." I dunno, the mood has changed. I think the common program requirements/merger/failed merger debacle might have something to do with it.

of course the mood has changed, it's that time of the cycle where a fresh batch of applicants are getting ready to take their MCAT and are still uninitiated into the DO clan. Soon they'll know what MD stands for, who AT Still is, and what the 5 oldest DO schools are. to quote The Byrds: To everything, turn turn turn

 

[guylewis]

3.74/21 may have a chance at LUCOM, PNWU, WVSOM, KYCOM, LMU, PCOM-GA, WCU, or VCOM (yes, some of these are regional).

you're telling me none of those schools screen on MCAT section scores that are under 8? I find that difficult to believe.

 

[user3]

you're telling me none of those schools screen on MCAT section scores that are under 8? I find that difficult to believe.

not that many schools screen for subscores. but for those that do, they frequently make exceptions.

 

[DamanTHFC]

Haha ... reading some of these posts - not what I was expecting.

Alrighty, first things first ... I was never going to apply anywhere with a 21. I am retaking it on the 25th.
(My aim is to get a 30 regardless of DO/MD. It's just my main weakness is Verbal. Can't seem to pass a 7, which may be why I might even postpone.)
Going along with that, (with my GPA in consideration, etc.) what would be the minimum MCAT score top DO schools like PCOM - Philly can accept. I know their average is about a 27, but approx how much lower can someone likely go.

And secondly, I honestly had no intentions of bringing any pessimistivity towards the DO subject matter - if it was implied that way, I sincerely apologize.
As @guylewis mentioned ... it probably seems that way because it's that time of the year again.

I was just hoping to get some past experience on people who switched from MD preference to DO.
Like I mentioned and have so many of you .... I completely understand that at the end of the day, DO or MD ... you are a physician.

And @VinceViegel ... haha reading it again, does sound like that.

 

[verynice]

Haha ... reading some of these posts - not what I was expecting.

Alrighty, first things first ... I was never going to apply anywhere with a 21. I am retaking it on the 25th.
(My aim is to get a 30 regardless of DO/MD. It's just my main weakness is Verbal. Can't seem to pass a 7, which may be why I might even postpone.)
Going along with that, (with my GPA in consideration, etc.) what would be the minimum MCAT score top DO schools like PCOM - Philly can accept. I know their average is about a 27, but approx how much lower can someone likely go.

And secondly, I honestly had no intentions of bringing any pessimistivity towards the DO subject matter - if it was implied that way, I sincerely apologize.
As @guylewis mentioned ... it probably seems that way because it's that time of the year again.

I was just hoping to get some past experience on people who switched from MD preference to DO.
Like I mentioned and have so many of you .... I completely understand that at the end of the day, DO or MD ... you are a physician.

And @VinceViegel ... haha reading it again, does sound like that.

It'd be good to set the minimum at a 24. I originally had a 21 mcat like you, but after some studying and a retake, I brought it up to a 24. I thought I wouldn't get any love but was sitting on 5 acceptances going into December. That said, the higher the better. A 24 will get you an acceptance somewhere. PCOM philly may be a stretch, but it is certainly worth applying.

As far as your concerns with DO vs MD, I have to say, I was exactly in your shoes. I had my goals set on MD since high school and didn't even consider anything else. Once I shadowed a DO, I think reality struck. They are physicians. Fully licensed doctors who can do anything an MD can do. I was able to see that it wasn't some sort of lesser option and became instantly excited about the prospect of being a physician. (Plus the guy I shadowed was awesome.) I would recommend shadowing a DO for a few days and I think you will be able to make a better informed decision. The letters only mean something to the person whose name they are behind. Even the patients won't be able to tell you the difference. They will know you as Dr. Daman and think that is what you are going for.

 

[CSqueed]

you're telling me none of those schools screen on MCAT section scores that are under 8? I find that difficult to believe.

^Search the username: Anicetus.


DO school. The place where with people with low GPA and/or MCAT scores escape to to seek refuge.

 

[guylewis]

^Search the username: Anicetus.


DO school. The place where with people with low GPA and/or MCAT scores escape to to seek refuge.

SHOTS FIRED!!!

 

[CSqueed]

SHOTS FIRED!!!

Shots have been firing all cycle. I could only keep my mouth shut for so long until this thread was way too cloud nine.

 

[guylewis]

Shots have been firing all cycle. I could only keep my mouth shut for so long until this thread was way too cloud nine.

why you waste your time reading and writing on these threads since you're obviously so much superior to us lowly brain dead prospective DOs is beyond me. you're just TOO SMART for such a pointless move. it makes no sense to me

 

[DamanTHFC]

It'd be good to set the minimum at a 24. I originally had a 21 mcat like you, but after some studying and a retake, I brought it up to a 24. I thought I wouldn't get any love but was sitting on 5 acceptances going into December. That said, the higher the better. A 24 will get you an acceptance somewhere. PCOM philly may be a stretch, but it is certainly worth applying.

As far as your concerns with DO vs MD, I have to say, I was exactly in your shoes. I had my goals set on MD since high school and didn't even consider anything else. Once I shadowed a DO, I think reality struck. They are physicians. Fully licensed doctors who can do anything an MD can do. I was able to see that it wasn't some sort of lesser option and became instantly excited about the prospect of being a physician. (Plus the guy I shadowed was awesome.) I would recommend shadowing a DO for a few days and I think you will be able to make a better informed decision. The letters only mean something to the person whose name they are behind. Even the patients won't be able to tell you the difference. They will know you as Dr. Daman and think that is what you are going for.

Thanks a bunch for this!
This is exactly the type of response I was hoping to get. It seems the more info on this I get, the more attractive it (DO) becomes, especially with the OMM set of skills they have.
Anyway, yeah I will surely schedule to shadow a DO after my MCAT on the 25th (and if I do postpone, I'll try to still arrange it while studying).
Oh and how long to do you recommend shadowing a DO for as compared to an MD to get the understanding of both ... like as getting the OMM experience?

Cheers.

 

[CSqueed]

why you waste your time reading and writing on these threads since you're obviously so much superior to us lowly brain dead prospective DOs is beyond me. you're just TOO SMART for such a lowly move. it makes no sense to me

I can tell you're quite fluent in sarcasm.

I basically back up people like user3 and want people to save money instead of wasting a year and reapplying just because they have a 25 on the mcat or only a 3.2 GPA. The DO premed forums contain a large amount of information that is quite untrue and misleading. The opportunities of a DO student are not equal in every way to that of MD students (please don't try to argue against that) and I essentially try to make sure people don't waste four years of their life if a DO degree won't help their aspirations.

 

[guylewis]

I can tell you're quite fluent in sarcasm.

I basically back up people like user3 and want people to save money instead of wasting a year and reapplying just because they have a 25 on the mcat or only a 3.2 GPA. The DO premed forums contain a large amount of information that is quite untrue and misleading. The opportunities of a DO student are not equal in every way to that of MD students (please don't try to argue against that) and I essentially try to make sure people don't waste four years of their life if a DO degree won't help their aspirations.

as a lesson on making valid points: saying stupid broad brush statements like
"DO school. The place where with people with low GPA and/or MCAT scores escape to to seek refuge."
will result in zero gains. you just told people like me who only applied to DO schools (even though I could've applied MD if I wanted to), that I'm seeking refuge cuz I wasn't smart/good enough to make MD. DOs get the same education as MDs, DOs are respected as physicians, especially as the older generation of MDs are dying off with their long held beliefs that no longer remain relevant in the present. I am not blind to the difficulty of landing ROADS, but I am not aiming for any of those residencies. getting matched ROADS is hard for MDs and DOs (albeit a bit more difficult for DOs). so stop with your inflammatory trolling. if you are tired of reading points of view that bother you, then DON'T READ THEM. I guess the old saying is true: "opinions are like a*******s...everyone has one and they all stink"

 

[CSqueed]

as a lesson on making valid points: saying stupid broad brush statements like
"DO school. The place where with people with low GPA and/or MCAT scores escape to to seek refuge."
will result in zero gains. you just told people like me who only applied to DO schools (even though I could've applied MD if I wanted to), that I'm seeking refuge cuz I wasn't smart/good enough to make MD. DOs get the same education as MDs, DOs are respected as physicians, especially as the older generation of MDs are dying off with their long held beliefs that no longer remain relevant in the present. I am not blind to the difficulty of landing ROADS, but I am not aiming for any of those residencies. getting matched ROADS is hard for MDs and DOs (albeit a bit more difficult for DOs). so stop with your inflammatory trolling. if you are tired of reading points of view that bother you, then DON'T READ THEM. I guess the old saying is true: "opinions are like a*******s...everyone has one and they all stink"

With all the shots being fired, you actually took offense to that one?

Look, I am a prospective DO and I am not ashamed, but I can also face the truth when it comes to how most people find out about DO schools in the first place. Oh, and the obligatory: Okay not EVERYONE applied to DO because they are "MD rejects."

Man, less than 50 posts and I'm already sick of this.

 

[guylewis]

With all the shots being fired, you actually took offense to that one?

Look, I am a prospective DO and I am not ashamed, but I can also face the truth when it comes to how most people find out about DO schools in the first place. Oh, and the obligatory: Okay not EVERYONE applied to DO because they are "MD rejects."

Man, less than 50 posts and I'm already sick of this.

ahhhh, gotcha a self-hating prospective DO. do yourself a favor and don't apply to DO school. You won't like hearing all your classmates brag about how they are studying to become good doctors, just like their MD counterparts. you're already sick of it. you'll go crazy having to constantly explain to them that they are wrong

 

[Roxas]

This is fun

 

[CSqueed]

ahhhh, gotcha a self-hating prospective DO. do yourself a favor and don't apply to DO school. You won't like hearing all your classmates brag about how they are studying to become good doctors, just like their MD counterparts. you're already sick of it

Actually a 3rd year. I keep from calling myself a full fledged DO or the REALLY specific guys will chase me down.

**** didn't even know why I used prospective when I should have just said DO student.

it's 1am. Don't eat me.

 

[Isha2018]

I originally had a 21. I retook the MCAT and got a 26 (6, 11, 9). I've been accepted to 3 DO schools: TCOM, WesternU-COMP, and ATSU-SOMA. Plus, I had a 6 in the physical science subscore both times. I thank the Lord that I wasn't autoscreened out for my 6!

Daman---If you want to become a physician, just do better on your retake. You can do it. Don't let the naysayers persuade you otherwise. Osteopathic medicine is a noble profession.

 

[Dr. Zombie]

Actually a 3rd year. I keep from calling myself a full fledged DO or the REALLY specific guys will chase me down.

**** didn't even know why I used prospective when I should have just said DO student.

it's 1am. Don't eat me.

Residency applications you will experience some bias. Beyond match day, bias becomes so isolated you won't even notice it's there.

 

[Bacchus]

This thread is not a place to play out personal vendettas. Back on topic. Take it to PM of you must discuss a topic not related to the thread.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

It seems lately the Osteo sub-forums have gotten more pessimistic and negative. There was a time a few application cycles ago when the mantra was, "DO=MD." Now that mantra is "go MD if you can, because being a DO is a huge disadvantage." I dunno, the mood has changed. I think the common program requirements/merger/failed merger debacle might have something to do with it.

This is exactly my observation.

When I first joined this site, I remember reading nothing but positive things about the DO route. Countless of members ditched MD schools to attend DO ones. It's funny to see how, despite the upward trend of the match rate to ACGME residencies, this forum has become increasingly hostile to the profession. Honestly, if I had witnessed this level of pessimism when I first learned about Osteopathic Medicine on this site, I may have either worked toward getting myself into a SMP for MD programs or given up on medicine all together.

 

[okokok]

I'm curious as to what DO school accepts someone who has a 21 on the MCAT? or someone who got a score of 5 VR? or a PS score under 8? he'd be autoscreened out of most schools that I can think of. not to mention he isn't an URM so he's pretty much got the Carribbean or an MCAT retake in his future. I even think Liberty is a reach with that albatross around his neck. sorry for the bluntness.

Just putting this out there, I was accepted to MSU COM, CCOM, and another DO school whose name escapes me at the moment (this all happened back in September), as well as several MD programs (none "top tier" but all very solid, respected schools) with a 7 in PS. I scored a 30 overall but was devastated by that 7 and thought it'd kill my app. It definitely didn't, though that was the only real weakness in my app.

So just saying, both DO and MD programs will accept you with a sub-8 PS score.

 

[medickdb]

This is exactly my observation.

When I first joined this site, I remember reading nothing but positive things about the DO route. Countless of members ditched MD schools to attend DO ones. It's funny to see how, despite the upward trend of the match rate to ACGME residencies, this forum has become increasingly hostile to the profession. Honestly, if I had witnessed this level of pessimism when I first learned about Osteopathic Medicine on this site, I may have either worked toward getting myself into a SMP for MD programs or given up on medicine all together.

Personally, if it keeps up, I'm going to leave this section of the forum. I have my acceptance. I know myself the realities. I don't need this unwarranted negativity.

 

[user3]

This is exactly my observation.

When I first joined this site, I remember reading nothing but positive things about the DO route. Countless of members ditched MD schools to attend DO ones. It's funny to see how, despite the upward trend of the match rate to ACGME residencies, this forum has become increasingly hostile to the profession. Honestly, if I had witnessed this level of pessimism when I first learned about Osteopathic Medicine on this site, I may have either worked toward getting myself into a SMP for MD programs or given up on medicine all together.

I agree with the person who wrote that the failed merger is a major reason

 

[JDMcNugent]

I'll keep my opinion to myself regarding this topic but you have to wonder: What would this conversation look like in person instead of a bunch of pre-meds posting anonymously on a message board?? I would imagine that it wouldn't be so negative.

 

[costales]

It's like you're going into a store to buy a Pepsi, and proceed to ask the store manager why the Pepsi is not a Coke. And then you complain about why anyone would make a Pepsi instead of a Coke, and how drinking a Pepsi would make you look very, very bad, and you don't know why anyone would ever want to buy a Pepsi.

And then you pay the store manager and you drink the Pepsi, and then you complain about oh, how you wish it was a Coke, and how all your ills are because of the Pepsi.

If you want a Coke, buy a Coke, and quit yer d*mn bitching.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

Personally, if it keeps up, I'm going to leave this section of the forum. I have my acceptance. I know myself the realities. I don't need this unwarranted negativity.

This is exactly my observation.

When I first joined this site, I remember reading nothing but positive things about the DO route. Countless of members ditched MD schools to attend DO ones. It's funny to see how, despite the upward trend of the match rate to ACGME residencies, this forum has become increasingly hostile to the profession. Honestly, if I had witnessed this level of pessimism when I first learned about Osteopathic Medicine on this site, I may have either worked toward getting myself into a SMP for MD programs or given up on medicine all together.

There has always been a couple of members like that in the DO forum...Remember MdPR! I think CSqueed is probably MdPR because the writing style and content are quite similar.

 

[medickdb]

There has always been a couple of members like that in the DO forum...Remember MdPR! I think CSqueed is probably MdPR because the writing style and content are quite similar.

I know. I've been on this site for almost 3 years, more active in the last year. I'm just sick of all of these recent threads.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

I know. I've been on this site for almost 3 years, more active in the last year. I'm just sick of all of these recent threads.

Hey...What did you expect? It is just a bunch of immature premeds blowing up smokes bro...

 

[medickdb]

Hey...What did you expect? It is just a bunch of immature premeds blowing up smokes bro...

That's why I was thinking the next time it happens, I'm going to reply with links to ridiculous internet videos as a distraction.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

That's why I was thinking the next time it happens, I'm going to reply with links to ridiculous internet videos as a distraction.

You should do that or ignore these negative posts altogether.. When you become a physician, NO ONE will care whether you are a D.O. or not if you are competent.

 

[medickdb]

You should do that or ignore these negative posts altogether.. When you become a physician, NO ONE will care whether you are a D.O. or not if you are competent.

I know that. I've been in healthcare long enough to realize that. There will always be bullies, people with overinflated egos, and cowards who hide behind the internet.

 

[zachdwphoto]

I don't know if this will help...But some of the best physicians I have ever worked with have been DO. By "best" I mean competent, efficient, compassionate, knowledgeable, and just all around great practitioners. I would go DO in a heart beat. Unless your heart is set on some super specialized field of medicine or you really want to do academics at a top-tier hospital, I would go DO


BTW....I have worked as a scrub tech for going on 5 years

 

[SLC]

There has always been a couple of members like that in the DO forum...Remember MdPR! I think CSqueed is probably MdPR because the writing style and content are quite similar.

This was my thought exactly

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

It seems lately the Osteo sub-forums have gotten more pessimistic and negative. There was a time a few application cycles ago when the mantra was, "DO=MD." Now that mantra is "go MD if you can, because being a DO is a huge disadvantage." I dunno, the mood has changed. I think the common program requirements/merger/failed merger debacle might have something to do with it.

Idk, when I started on SDN the mantra was basically "DO=MD in practice, but go MD if you can, to take the path of least resistance." I haven't seen much deviation from that belief, aside from the occasional DO vs. MD troll thread. Maybe I'm not reading the right threads though.

 

[MDforMee]

This thread makes me think that I'll be like the dad in the Dead Poet's Society that sent his kid to boarding school and pressured him into going to medical school (an allopathic one).