I need serious help

[The Angriest Bird]

Thank you for reading everyone. Here's the story.

I'm a 3rd year now. I just finished four rotations: Peds, Neuro, Psych, and Ob-Gyn. The grades are B, C, F, B. The F in psych was due to failing the shelf exam. I got 58 while 60 is passing. The C in Neuro has a "messed-up" story. To make a very long story short, one attending gave me a failing clinical grade without feedback and refused to meet me in person. The course director intervened but he could not give me anything higher than a C. I recently contacted my faculty adviser for another issue, and we happened to touch base with my grades by accident. He told me that "a student with two deficiencies" will be likely to repeat the 3rd year. A "deficiency" is defined as any grade below B, i.e. C, D, F.

It was very anxiety-invoking. But I quickly got pissed off because of the following reasons:

1. We were NOT informed of this policy at the beginning of the 3rd year. I guess trying not to fail is common sense, but I would never imagine a C, which is a passing grade, would contribute to factors regarding repeating a year.

2. Because we were not informed, I did not fight hard enough for my Neuro grade. I accepted the "C" offer by the Neuro course director without much struggling because 1) it's infinitely better than F 2) it's a passing grade 3) If I struggle too much I may not even get a C. If I had been told of all these "deficiency" stuff, I would totally negotiate for a B grade at all cost.

3. The advisor said a committee will review my case by the end of 3rd year and make a decision. Well, how unpredictable. So there's no such a policy carved into stone? If they do force me to repeat 3rd year, why not let me know right now so I can take the rest of 3rd year off at least to chill out? I have surgery and medicine left, and I'm interested in surgery. What if I get an A in surgery, then on the repeated 3rd year I get a B?

* End of Story *

I'm very anxious, depressed now and very pissed. I have a 24-hr surgery call shift tomorrow and I don't know how to pull that off. I've scheduled an appointment with the advisor next week. I've always been a hard-working student. My school grades are not very impressive, but my Step I score is decent (245). I have a nice shot at getting into a General Surgery residency. I have a paper in CT Surgery that will be published this summer. Nothing can look worse than a repeated 3rd year on my transcript. My parents are totally unaware of my grades, because I do not want them to share my anxiety when they don't have to. But if I'm repeating a year there's no way to hide it. I've called the mental health department but they won't have a spot until late next week. Time to get some Prozac going...

Any inputs guys? I need some serious help.

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[MedMan25]

Did you fail any courses in 1st/2nd year? Do you have things going on outside of school that are affecting your performance? Getting a 245 on step I and then failing shelf exams sounds like there might be more to the story. And if so, maybe you could explain this to your schools committee in hopes of forgiveness.

 

[silas2642]

Thank you for reading everyone. Here's the story.

I'm a 3rd year now. I just finished four rotations: Peds, Neuro, Psych, and Ob-Gyn. The grades are B, C, F, B. The F in psych was due to failing the shelf exam. I got 58 while 60 is passing. The C in Neuro has a "messed-up" story. To make a very long story short, one attending gave me a failing clinical grade without feedback and refused to meet me in person. The course director intervened but he could not give me anything higher than a C. I recently contacted my faculty adviser for another issue, and we happened to touch base with my grades by accident. He told me that "a student with two deficiencies" will be likely to repeat the 3rd year. A "deficiency" is defined as any grade below B, i.e. C, D, F.

It was very anxiety-invoking. But I quickly got pissed off because of the following reasons:

1. We were NOT informed of this policy at the beginning of the 3rd year. I guess trying not to fail is common sense, but I would never imagine a C, which is a passing grade, would contribute to factors regarding repeating a year.

2. Because we were not informed, I did not fight hard enough for my Neuro grade. I accepted the "C" offer by the Neuro course director without much struggling because 1) it's infinitely better than F 2) it's a passing grade 3) If I struggle too much I may not even get a C. If I had been told of all these "deficiency" stuff, I would totally negotiate for a B grade at all cost.

3. The advisor said a committee will review my case by the end of 3rd year and make a decision. Well, how unpredictable. So there's no such a policy carved into stone? If they do force me to repeat 3rd year, why not let me know right now so I can take the rest of 3rd year off at least to chill out? I have surgery and medicine left, and I'm interested in surgery. What if I get an A in surgery, then on the repeated 3rd year I get a B?

* End of Story *

I'm very anxious, depressed now and very pissed. I have a 24-hr surgery call shift tomorrow and I don't know how to pull that off. I've scheduled an appointment with the advisor next week. I've always been a hard-working student. My school grades are not very impressive, but my Step I score is decent (245). I have a nice shot at getting into a General Surgery residency. I have a paper in CT Surgery that will be published this summer. Nothing can look worse than a repeated 3rd year on my transcript. My parents are totally unaware of my grades, because I do not want them to share my anxiety when they don't have to. But if I'm repeating a year there's no way to hide it. I've called the mental health department but they won't have a spot until late next week. Time to get some Prozac going...

Any inputs guys? I need some serious help.

Have you talked with your dean about this? He/she may be the best go to person about these issues for support and advice to see if there is anything you can do to improve your chances of not having to remediate the year.

 

[WellWornLad]

The F in psych was due to failing the shelf exam. I got 58 while 60 is passing. The C in Neuro has a "messed-up" story. To make a very long story short, one attending gave me a failing clinical grade without feedback and refused to meet me in person.

There's got to be something else going on here. Either you're not telling the whole story, or you're not aware of the whole story. It is very strange that your attending won't meet with you. If I were you, I would have tracked him/her down and figured out what the hell was going on (in a respectful way). Why did you drop it so quickly? I understand that you didn't want to rock the "C" boat, but there's a difference between arguing over grades and getting feedback as to why you received a failing grade.

The advisor said a committee will review my case by the end of 3rd year and make a decision. Well, how unpredictable. So there's no such a policy carved into stone? If they do force me to repeat 3rd year, why not let me know right now so I can take the rest of 3rd year off at least to chill out? I have surgery and medicine left, and I'm interested in surgery. What if I get an A in surgery, then on the repeated 3rd year I get a B?

I would think it was good news that you have a chance to not repeat third year. Instead, you're mad because you're afraid you'll miss a chance to "take it easy?" You want to sabotage your surgery rotation so you get a better grade the second time around?

Go talk to the dean and ask what your chances are of passing third year. If it is anything but "slim to none," bust your ass to end on a high note and hope for the best.

245 is an awesome Step 1. If you're interested in general surgery, psych and neuro are not the most important rotations. Based on what you've said, I think you've got a strong case for passing 3rd year if you do well to excellent from here on out. There are gaps in what you're telling us, however. If you are telling us everything you know, you don't know enough and need to seek feedback. Not knowing why someone wanted to fail you for neuro will doom you to the same fate down the road.

 

[cbass1350]

Like the above poster says, since you are applying to a competitive specialty, it might be a better idea to bite the bullet, repeat third year and aim at all honors. Since you have a great step I score, you obviously have what it takes to do so.

If you want to be a surgeon, aiming for excellence should be your top priority (especially if you want to get accepted at a good program). As it is, your poor 3rd year grades will raise a red flag for a lot of programs. It might greatly influence your chances at getting interviews during your 4th year.

That being said, repeating 3rd year is just about as fun as slamming your head against a brick wall repeatedly. So I suppose its time to consider what's more important to you; surgery or just finishing med school and going into whatever specialty that you can get into?

 

[ACSurgeon]

OP and others: What advice do you have for a soon to be M3 when that time comes? Everybody emphasizes that if you show up and show interest you should be fine. Is this true?

Would you say that it's usually when an M3 let's their gaurd down (as in thinks they are set and just waiting for graduation) that they are in a position of needing to remidiate a year or a rotation?

I know this must be school specific, but I would like to be as prepared as possible. Thanks in advance.

 

[cbass1350]

OP and others: What advice do you have for a soon to be M3 when that time comes? Everybody emphasizes that if you show up and show interest you should be fine. Is this true?

Would you say that it's usually when an M3 let's their gaurd down (as in thinks they are set and just waiting for graduation) that they are in a position of needing to remidiate a year or a rotation?

I know this must be school specific, but I would like to be as prepared as possible. Thanks in advance.

Instead of specific directions, I'll offer a simple principle: Act in every rotation as if you were going to apply to that specialty and at that very program. This is very idealistic and will be moderated by the human factor (being tired, having a bad day/week, occasional drop in motivation). But overall, it should be your ultimate goal. What is the benefit in doing well in all your rotations? A recent study of residency program directors has shown that an overwhelming majority of them use 3rd year clerkship grades as a major criteria for offering interviews or residency positions to 4th year applicants. I would argue that your basic clerkship grades are almost as important your step I scores in getting competitive residency spots.

 

[ACSurgeon]

Instead of specific directions, I'll offer a simple principle: Act in every rotation as if you were going to apply to that specialty and at that very program. This is very idealistic and will be moderated by the human factor (being tired, having a bad day/week, occasional drop in motivation). But overall, it should be your ultimate goal. What is the benefit in doing well in all your rotations? A recent study of residency program directors has shown that an overwhelming majority of them use 3rd year clerkship grades as a major criteria for offering interviews or residency positions to 4th year applicants. I would argue that your basic clerkship grades are almost as important your step I scores in getting competitive residency spots.

Thanks for the advice. Since I don't know what I want to do when I grow up, I was already planning to try my best on every rotation.

And for the record, OP, I wasn't trying to offend or criticize you (as I have no idea what 3rd year is like), I was just wondering if it was "the human factor" that gets in people's way of cruising along, or if there are hidden traps that people aren't aware of and fall into. I was genuinely curious/ worried!
Best of luck, OP.

 

[sprinkibrio]

3. The advisor said a committee will review my case by the end of 3rd year and make a decision. Well, how unpredictable. So there's no such a policy carved into stone? If they do force me to repeat 3rd year, why not let me know right now so I can take the rest of 3rd year off at least to chill out? I have surgery and medicine left, and I'm interested in surgery. What if I get an A in surgery, then on the repeated 3rd year I get a B?

This sounds like they will pass you. Administrators love to scare you into improvement... a huge tactic. I would ask what exactly it would take to pass the year, because they will tell you exactly what you need to do. I've been in poor grading situations before and no one will go out of their way to fail you just because their guildlines say they *have to fail those who got two poor grades*. That is complete bs.

Even if you do repeat you may only need to repeat the rotations you did poorly in. You obviously don't know all of your options, and I think it would be calming to find out what they are in detail ASAP.

I would also recommend issuing a complaint about the F with no written explanation and repeated refusals to meet. You need to keep all documentation of your requests to meet and his/her refusals. Go to the dean with this information and get his evaluation completely taken off your grade. Stop meeting with the course directors and start meeting with the deans.

And don't act mad in front of anyone or act like you *deserve* better grades. Being nice, apologetic, articulate, and calm will get you a lot further.

Good luck, I feel for you!