I/O Psy D Programs?

[deleted343839]

The state of Ohio excepts distance learning programs. It is a bit more challenging because I would have to set up my own internship but it can be done.

But why would you deliberately set yourself up for unemployment or underemployment? Sure, it sounds great, earning a doctorate mainly through reading and writing a lot in the evenings and teleconferencing with people while continuing to work your day job. Online programs like this recruit by flattering prospective students' "work experience" and so forth, but that is nothing more than a sales tactic to distract you from the fact that full-time, in-residence training at a reputable university-based program is qualitatively different from sacrificing your leisure time for a few years to do distance learning. If you spent a week in the life of a student in a quality I/O program and then went home to your laptop, you'd see what you'd be missing. I don't mean to sound dismissive, but investing years and dollars into a low-value degree is a very tough way to test your hypothesis.

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[futureapppsy2]

I hope no one in this thread sills my idea to start the first experimental psychology psyd (offered online, of course!).

 

[randomguy87]

I hope no one in this thread sills my idea to start the first experimental psychology psyd (offered online, of course!).

I feel like experimental would be the best to be online. It would be very stats heavy and not be interaction based

 

[cara susanna]

I hope no one in this thread sills my idea to start the first experimental psychology psyd (offered online, of course!).

Only if you don't steal my idea to start an online quantitative psychology PsyD.

 

[deleted343839]

I hope no one in this thread sills my idea to start the first experimental psychology psyd (offered online, of course!).

Go for it. I'm opening an Doctor of Parapsychology (DPp) online degree program. For a limited time I am offering to beat any online doctoral degree's per-credit fee!

I figured it was easier not to have to answer to any credible authority. Plus, I'll be the first to tap into the burgeoning global telepathy market by offering all of my courses "via medium."

 

[futureapppsy2]

We all should join together, start all these programs, and then get our students to enroll in all three so that can be "Dr. Dr. Dr."s Sounds legit, yes?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

As legit as the current online programs.

 

[WisNeuro]

When states license laws talk about an internship, that is not what they are talking about. You need a minimum amount of hours from an APA or APPIC internship. You will also be ineligible for many jobs due to this program.

 

[chicandtoughness]

I previously worked in a corporation that hired I/O Psychologists (management consulting firm) and actually did some recruiting (not for I/Os specifically, but for consultants in general). For the most part, I/O psych is a heavily research- and quant-based career. I have no idea why you'd want to do a PsyD - known for its "applied" focus - as opposed to a PhD in I/O.

For that matter, as a masters graduate in I/O, that already sets you up for a 6-figure salary assuming you're hired at a reputable company. No need to waste the time and money to get a useless PsyD in I/O unless you're *that* intent on calling yourself "doctor". By the way, said reputable companies will NOT hire you if you have an online graduate degree. Most HR employees, inundated with resumes, will look up your university, see that it's online, and immediately lump you in with the Argosy's and U of Phoenix's and Walden's and Capella's. If you want *top* dollar companies (McKinsey, Bain, and the like), they won't even look at your resume if you didn't come from a top-tier institution (Ivies, top public universities, etc.)

You do not need licensure to work in I/O... unless your goal is to backdoor into being a clinical psychologist? Which is not a good idea, I've been told many times.

 

[erg923]

This same poster just asked about the EPPP in another thread. I think they are profoundly confused.

 

[erg923]

"Back door"? It's a Regionally accreditated, non profit doctoral program thats meets Ohio's standards for licensure. You really don't think this program along with the 3600 clinical hours would be enough?

I think you are profoundly confused about a few fundamentals here.

1. Do you want to do org development/consulting or assess and treat mental illness?

2. There is no license needed for I/O psychologists. A "licensed psychologist" is for the provision of psychological services to the public. This is not I/O psych.

3. What is a Psy.D in I/O, exactly?

As others mentioned, I/O psych at the doctoral level is a quantitative field and very research based. Masters level I/Os are often the ones working directly in the fortune 500 companies. What does an I.O PsyD d/qualify one for that the masters doesn't? Its a PsyD, so it not like it a research oriented, right?

 

[erg923]

There's no confusion.

Yes. There is.

An I/O Psy.D. will NOT qualify you to assess and treat mental disorders. This is not a clinical training program. I/O is NOT clinical psychology.

 

[WisNeuro]

I get that however coupled with the 3600 clinical hours under the direct supervision of a licensed psychologist one would be just as prepared.

No, most states will not license you for a couple very important reasons. This school is not accredited by the APA. And, you will not have the required formal didactic training experiences. You will not pass national credentialing procedures to work in most healthcare systems, and I can imagine few regional healthcare systems where you will pass the credentialing board with such education.

 

[erg923]

I get that however coupled with the 3600 clinical hours under the direct supervision of a licensed psychologist one would be just as prepared.

No.

 

[erg923]

Online training is what YOU make of it and if you are an independent learner and willing to put an the extra effort to get licensed it can be done..

I think this a great attitude...that ignores the realities of the job market, unfortunately.

Not to mention that you are forgetting about training standards that are set my state licensing boards and professional organizations. More research is order here, Lauren.

 

[LPPSYD]

I get that however coupled with the 3600 clinical hours under the direct supervision of a licensed psychologist one would be just as prepared.

Except you would be missing the entire doctorate in clinical psychology needed for such work ? Those degrees are not interchangeable, at least not in this direction.

 

[chicandtoughness]

"Back door"? It's a Regionally accreditated, non profit doctoral program thats meets Ohio's standards for licensure. You really don't think this program along with the 3600 clinical hours would be enough?

Backdoor = get a PhD in a non-clinical psychology field, then complete a respecialization program (usually another 3 years or so) to get your clinical psychology training + internship. Usually not a good idea - it makes you seem unfocused and undedicated.

There's no confusion. I wish to do both....I want options.

Yeah, I'd love to be a school psychologist and an I/O psychologist and a neuropsychologist. Unfortunately, getting that PhD (or PsyD if you insist) is not something where you can mix-and-match bits and pieces of your favourite subfields. Unlike a bachelor's degree, your main goal is not to just take a breadth of classes and leave with a stuffed brain. In your doctoral program, you're learning - and developing - new research, new treatment methodologies, and applying them in a very specific area. If you're going PhD I/O, your time will be spent analyzing the hell out of data. You had better damn love I/O or your life will suck. If you're going clinical PsyD, you'll be focus on proper assessment, treatment, etc. They're two totally different areas. If you want to do a PhD in Clinical Science, you'll also be analyzing data... in a different subfield. Clinical is nowhere close to I/O. That's like saying, "I majored in Japanese Studies, but now I want to teach Spanish... they're both foreign languages, so it can't be that hard, right?"

I get that however coupled with the 3600 clinical hours under the direct supervision of a licensed psychologist one would be just as prepared.

You'll also be hard-pressed to find an APA accredited internship, coming from a PsyD in I/O from an APA-unaccredited school.... you won't know anything about clinical psychology, so why would someone hire you to deal with their patients in a clinical setting?! Internship is a place to learn, yes, but not to learn from scratch!

 

[LPPSYD]

Backdoor = get a PhD in a non-clinical psychology field, then complete a respecialization program (usually another 3 years or so) to get your clinical psychology training + internship. Usually not a good idea - it makes you seem unfocused and undedicated.



Yeah, I'd love to be a school psychologist and an I/O psychologist and a neuropsychologist. Unfortunately, getting that PhD (or PsyD if you insist) is not something where you can mix-and-match bits and pieces of your favourite subfields. Unlike a bachelor's degree, your main goal is not to just take a breadth of classes and leave with a stuffed brain. In your doctoral program, you're learning - and developing - new research, new treatment methodologies, and applying them in a very specific area. If you're going PhD I/O, your time will be spent analyzing the hell out of data. You had better damn love I/O or your life will suck. If you're going clinical PsyD, you'll be focus on proper assessment, treatment, etc. They're two totally different areas. If you want to do a PhD in Clinical Science, you'll also be analyzing data... in a different subfield. Clinical is nowhere close to I/O. That's like saying, "I majored in Japanese Studies, but now I want to teach Spanish... they're both foreign languages, so it can't be that hard, right?"



You'll also be hard-pressed to find an APA accredited internship, coming from a PsyD in I/O from an APA-unaccredited school.... you won't know anything about clinical psychology, so why would someone hire you to deal with their patients in a clinical setting?! Internship is a place to learn, yes, but not to learn from scratch!

Not to mention internship sites will not accept this type of degree. Applicants have to be clinical, counseling, or school psychology students, and many sites will not accept students from all three types of programs. I guess we can now expect to hear about how this person will attempt to make their own internship

 

[Chalupacabra]

A brief glance at this poster's message history reveals they've been ignoring advice about avoiding online programs for 2+ years on these boards. I wouldn't bother responding with advice, as it seems pretty clear they're going to ignore any information that doesn't validate their current viewpoint.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I get that however coupled with the 3600 clinical hours under the direct supervision of a licensed psychologist one would be just as prepared.

100% disagree. As someone who has consulted w. multiple state licensing boards (including OH) on issues of competency and scope of practice, I'm pretty familiar with the requirements.

To be licensed as a psychologist requires specific classes in a set of core competencies (not met), from an accredited program (regional acred may or may not suffice, & the burden of proof is on the applicant), documented face to face hours, documented supervision hours, passing score on the EPPP (which has its own requirements), background check, and a passing score on the juris prudence exam.

An I/O degree will not have the requisite classes, may not have the right acred, and certainly will not be able to be supervised by another psychologist bc you don't know what you don't know. No psychologiys who wants to lee there license would "supervise" an I/O student.

 

[Shooter]

i get the feeling online psyds and phd's will become the new norm in 20=30yrs...the only thing holding them back is slow legislative change in many states...but they are moving in that direction..

 

[WisNeuro]

I see the opposite actually. Boards are tightening standards for specialty competencies, and some states are going the way of requiring board certification to bill for certain procedures. So, maybe other areas, but I can never see something like neuro accepting this type of education. Additionally, forensic will also self-select away from these people. They would get crucified on cross examination when the opposing counsel asks about qualifications/education. Not too mention these individuals will likely have a hard time understanding psychometrics and biostats enough to be competent in the field.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I personally feel and found that the in-class and impromptu after/before class discussions regarding the material we covered were just as important (if not more so) than the actual material itself, especially as we could then relate it to specific cases we or our classmates had seen. This then often led to even further discussion, generation of research projects with faculty, etc. I haven't yet come across an online environment that is able to successfully recreate this type of interaction, although that in part might just reflect current limitations which could be gone 20-30 years from now.

But in general, I've always felt that online education, as it currently exists, is pretty good at content delivery...but that raw content and its delivery are probably the least important aspects of doctoral education. Stumbling through efforts at self-education with classmates, and with appropriate supports from faculty, was where most of my learning occurred.

 

[smalltownpsych]

I have friend who passed the exam in CA (first time)... graduated from California Southern University....

That explains a lot. Another non-APA accredited online degree. The one graduate from that program that I knew would allow people to think he went to USC and could not get licensed as a psychologist. Of course, he heads a government agency that serves the most vulnerable population now because ethics and morals and standards aren't an issue there either apparently.

 

[WisNeuro]

What if I told you I found someone who would?

I would tell you that I question that psychologists ethics and would be curious about their own training.

 

[erg923]

What if I was participating in a online program that was regionally accreditated but not apa accreditated that was just a general psyd degree? Would you still consider this unethical?

yes

I'm not sure why you are being so hard-headed here? You are talking to people who know more about this profession than you. Yet, you are dismissive. What's this about?

Students who are resistant to feedback will not be trainable, no matter how much cobbeling together you may be able to do. Moreover, the reason licensing boards exist is to ensure proper credentials and training before serving the public, right? If you attend a program but are unable to even apply for the internship match, how the hell do you think you can get licenesed as a psychologist?! The degree isn't conferred until after the predoctoral internship!

Please accept the feedback of licesned psychologists who are wiser than you in these matters. You will be kicking yourself later if you dont.

 

[WisNeuro]

Wow, just wow. That is the American Psychiatric Association, not the American Psychological Association.

 

[erg923]

I find the APA to be unethical as a whole.....

Take a look....

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/therapy-matters/201107/in-bed-big-pharma

That's a different profession, sweetie.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I find the APA to be unethical as a whole.....

Take a look....

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/therapy-matters/201107/in-bed-big-pharma

I only skimmed for the time being, but I believe that article is talking about the American Psychiatric Association, which is a different APA than the one that accredits psychology training programs.

Edit: I see a few others beat me to it.

 

[thewesternsky]

I find the APA to be unethical as a whole.....

Take a look....

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/therapy-matters/201107/in-bed-big-pharma

This article is about the American Psychiatric Association. They do not accredit clinical psychology programs.

I'm not saying the American Psychological Association doesn't have its problems/controversies. Google things long enough, and you'll find similar problems with our APA. That's not a great reason to throw out the minimum standard for psychologists, though. If you notice a problem with the Department of Motor Vehicles, does that mean that everyone should be able to drive without training or a license?

 

[erg923]

I find the APA to be unethical as a whole.....

What is the relevance of this retort to the issue being discussed in this thread anyway?

 

[erg923]

Ugh sorry posted the wrong article from my saved sites....Do a little digging on the board members of the American Psychological Association....see what you find.

So....you want to join an profession you find unethical? Im lost here...

Let me repost and perhaps you will adreess my concerns:

I'm not sure why you are being so hard-headed here? You are talking to people who know more about this profession than you. Yet, you are dismissive. What's this about?

Students who are resistant to feedback will not be trainable, no matter how much cobbeling together you may be able to do. Moreover, the reason licensing boards exist is to ensure proper credentials and training before serving the public, right? If you attend a program but are unable to even apply for the internship match, how the hell do you think you can get licenesed as a psychologist?! The degree isn't conferred until after the predoctoral internship!

Please accept the feedback of licesned psychologists who are wiser than you in these matters. You will be kicking yourself later if you dont.

 

[BuckeyeLove]

Do a little digging on the board members of the American Psychological Association....see what you find.

and this is relevant to this particular discussion how?

 

[chicandtoughness]

You have to be a troll. My mind can't comprehend your responses otherwise.

What if I was participating in a online program that was regionally accreditated but not apa accreditated that was just a general psyd degree? Would you still consider this unethical?

You can do whatever you want. People here are giving you their opinions and feedback because we don't want you to go skipping down a dark road for 6-7 years... just to figure out in the end that you won't be able to get licensed to practice. The unaccredited PsyD will make licensing almost impossible, and even if you do somehow manage to jump through hoops to get it, it will paint you in a bad light for employment. Be smart about it.

 

[cara susanna]

APA may be unethical, but it's the only accrediting body we've got. Whatever the reasons are for it, lack of APA accreditation is often a huge limiting factor. In fact, I believe unaccredited PsyD/PhD program students are going to be barred from the internship match in several years.

 

[erg923]

Then why do only 17 states require APA?

I still don't understand how you think you would qualify for licensure when you aren't enrolled in program that is eligible for the predoctoral internship match? That is a requirment for licensure!

Please message me if you would like this process explained to you. You still seem to be profoundly misunderstanding the process and requirments for licesure as a psychologist.

 

[Pragma]

This seems on topic the way this thread is going.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...rolls-are-narcissists-psychopaths-and-sadists

 

[cara susanna]

Then why do only 17 states require APA?

Because barring students from the match hasn't happened yet. Once it does, those students will not even be able to graduate unless they go outside of APPIC for internship.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Because barring students from the match hasn't happened yet. Once it does, those students will not even be able to graduate unless they go outside of APPIC for internship.

Additionally, in the past (i.e., when licensing laws were created), there was less of a problem with quality control in psychology training. Psychology was also younger as an applied discipline, and so there probably wasn't nearly as much widespread agreement on the need for training standards, what those should entail, etc. And since legislation is slow to change, few if any states currently require only APA accreditation.

However, every state at which I've looked (which, admittedly, isn't all of them) does require "APA-accredited or equivalent" training. If the program isn't accredited, as has been mentioned, the burden of proof then falls to the applicant to convince the licensing board that the training was indeed equivalent.

 

[Pragma]

Then why do only 17 states require APA?

Because a lot of states don't follow one accrediting body. Same thing for CACREP and accrediting bodies for other mental health professions. However, those states still follow general training standards, and if you aren't trained as a clinical psychologist, then you are not going to be eligible for licensure. If your degree is unaccredited, they generally look with heavy scrutiny at your educational experiences (syllabi, etc).

Accreeditation is also required to get a lot of types of jobs (VA, government, most hospitals these days) - jobs you will not be eligible for if you attend that program. Moreover, accreditation is widely regarded as a "minimal" standard in our profession. If you get that degree, it will be looked down upon by others because a) it is online and b) it is not accredited. You won't be respected.

Seems like a nice way to start off a career, eh?

The only one profiting from a program like this is the university. You foot the bill for a subpar education and can spend the rest of your life paying that off, with awful career prospects.

 

[BuckeyeLove]

I would strongly recommend examining their accredited internship match rate before pulling the trigger on that program.

http://www.fielding.edu/Media/Websi...ogramData/ClinicalPsychology-Outcome-Data.pdf

 

[Pragma]

You guys are real buzz kills ; p

Crap programs that produce poorly trained professionals masquerading around as "psychologists" are a buzzkill. They ruin the profession, confuse the public, and lower overall salaries for competent providers. All in the name of stealing federal loan money for profit, while transferring the debt to the students that fall for their marketing.

 

[deleted343839]

I get that however coupled with the 3600 clinical hours under the direct supervision of a licensed psychologist one would be just as prepared.

No, you would not remotely be "just as prepared." An I/O PsyD would not provide you with any of the following essentials: (1) clinical coursework, (2) practicum/externship experiences in clinical settings, (3) supervision of your training cases, and (4) mental health research experience and/or coursework. All of these are essential components of doctoral training in clinical or counseling psychology.

Even if you could somehow get through this odd loophole you believe to exist, the assumption that a licensed psychologist would take on the liability of supervising someone with no clinical training is misguided. You would quite rightly be considered a potential harm to the public and therefore a significant liability to anyone who signs on to be your supervisor. Would you be comfortable receiving care from a self-taught physician or nurse? No, and for good reason.

I'm done trying to make this case. Perhaps you'll have to find out the hard way what multiple well-meaning folks on this board are trying to help you understand. But as a final thought, you should seriously think through the ethics of practicing psychology without the appropriate training. Wishing for something to be okay doesn't make it so.

 

[randomguy87]

There's no confusion. I wish to do both....I want options.

I think you should go to Widener for their dual PsyD/JD, and do the hybrid program at Regent in Counselor Ed while doing the IO PsyD. Then these fools will see! They'll all see!

 

[randomguy87]

You guys are real buzz kills ; p

You got rejected from Fielding. I didn't know that was a thing that happened. I would probably try to absorb as much advice as humanly possible

 

[WisNeuro]

He does raise a point, though. Doctoral level education is demanding, and not for everyone, for various reasons. Fielding grads are not well respected in the field. Last figures I saw had them accepting 35%+ of their applicants. Most reputable programs are in the neighborhood of 2-10%. Depends on why you weren't accepted, but I would most likely be looking at other career options.

 

[psych844]

Lack of research/work experience....

Mind sharing your GPA score?

 

[psych844]

Only a 3.2. I didn't take my academics seriously until half way through....

Yeah, sadly that is not very competitive for most top/mid level programs in USA.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

It sounds like your ability to improve the competitiveness of your application (e.g., via gaining additional research experience, possibly completing a traditional masters program with a strong GPA to show that you can handle grad level coursework, etc.) is highly restricted/limited, as is your ability to relocate for training.

It's not that we don't appreciate the various things contributing to these restrictions; I'm sure most/all of us do. It's that regardless of the reasons, the restrictions are there, and all signs are unfortunately pointing toward an inability to receive appropriate and adequate training as a result. Thus, the two main options at present seem to be to either find a way to lift some of those restrictions, or to pursue another occupation/field of study.

This is why folks have said that doctoral study in clinical/counseling psychology isn't for everyone. Sometimes it's not that a person couldn't "make the grade" intellectually/academically, it's that life happens and they aren't able to absorb all of the associated lifestyle changes and sacrifices.

 

[randomguy87]

I honestly think you could probably be accepted to a normal state school type ms program. Especially in a non thesis track. If you apply to maybe 4 or 5