.(idiotic)video from colorado nurse anesthetists

[bashwell]

What's the latest with AA licensure? If they become licensed in all 50 states and become the premier non-physician provider in the ACT model I would seriously consider this specialty. The crnas can all go work in the icu, where there is a huge shortage.

I'm sure others know better than I do but to my knowledge there are about 15 states or so where AAs can work. But CRNAs of course are militantly against allowing AAs to expand and fight hard against AAs working in more states. Here is some background though maybe it's outdated:

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2013/12/anesthesiologist-assistants-practice-state.html

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[Planktonmd]

First of all, these studies will NEVER be done. Secondly, what if they show there is no difference in morbidity and mortality rate? Then what?

For some reason physicians always feel that they need to be politically correct and avoid admitting that what we are facing is simply a "turf war"!
It's not a secret, we are fighting for territory and losing the war.
It doesn't matter who has better outcomes or who kills more patients, what matters is that this is a medical specialty and we should not allow it to become nursing.

 

[Consigliere]

It doesn't matter who has better outcomes or who kills more patients, what matters is that this is a medical specialty and we should not allow it to become nursing.

I certainly agree with you but brother, that cat is already outta the bag. The horse has left the barn, (whatever other clever saying you know)....

 

[NOsaintsfan]

I was talking with an anesthesia doc in a big group (60+ docs) that covers much of the Denver metro area. They are an MD only group and they cover 3 or 4 of the big hospitals in town. Keep in mind Colorado is an opt out state. This is just one docs story so keep that in mind

He told me that a few years back (2010 or so) his group used to employ CRNA's but after Colorado "opted out" a lot of discussion took place between his group, the surgeons and the legal department at several of the hospitals. It was determined at that time that if a CRNA was working solo in the OR the ultimate liability for the anesthesia would fall on the surgeon. According to this anesthesiologist, after learning that the surgeons went to the hospital administration and said they wanted MD's only because they didn't want to assume the liability risk. The result? The anesthesia group fired all the CRNA's and went MD only and are still operating that way to this day.

This is just info from one person and my not be completely true. I don't think this doc would lie but he may have been misinformed. I realize that Denver is a very desirable place to live so attracting docs to come there isn't a problem, that isn't the case in many other places. Still it's interesting.

Has anyone else seen anything like this happen?

 

[Planktonmd]

I certainly agree with you but brother, that cat is already outta the bag. The horse has left the barn, (whatever other clever saying you know)....

True... but what I am saying is that if someone wants to fight this futile fight, they need to address the actual problem not dance around it like the ASA has been doing.

 

[Consigliere]

I was talking with an anesthesia doc in a big group (60+ docs) that covers much of the Denver metro area. They are an MD only group and they cover 3 or 4 of the big hospitals in town. Keep in mind Colorado is an opt out state. This is just one docs story so keep that in mind

He told me that a few years back (2010 or so) his group used to employ CRNA's but after Colorado "opted out" a lot of discussion took place between his group, the surgeons and the legal department at several of the hospitals. It was determined at that time that if a CRNA was working solo in the OR the ultimate liability for the anesthesia would fall on the surgeon. According to this anesthesiologist, after learning that the surgeons went to the hospital administration and said they wanted MD's only because they didn't want to assume the liability risk. The result? The anesthesia group fired all the CRNA's and went MD only and are still operating that way to this day.

This is just info from one person and my not be completely true. I don't think this doc would lie but he may have been misinformed. I realize that Denver is a very desirable place to live so attracting docs to come there isn't a problem, that isn't the case in many other places. Still it's interesting.

Has anyone else seen anything like this happen?

IF this is true, it is probably the ONLY example ever.

 

[FollowTheMoney]

IF this is true, it is probably the ONLY example ever.

I think everyone everywhere should fire every CRNA in their group, man up and stop being lazy, hire as many MDs as needed and make it work, and I'm sure that you will have their attention. Then you demand that if they ever want a job again that's not in BFE they need to make sure not one peep of insubordination, disrespect, mockery, or independent political talk comes out of the ANAAs mouth again.

 

[Man o War]

The only example I know of that is close to that is in my city CRNAs and AAs have been effectively banned from the cardiac ORs by the surgeons. They just won't hear of it in any of the hospitals here (we have several hospitals here that do cardiac cases). There is one that allows them, but it's a teaching hospital and from what I understand they are more an extra set of hands than anything. Attending is 1 to 1 with them, and those CRNAs don't want to be independent because they know the cases are above their pay grade.

 

[deleted171991]

I think everyone everywhere should fire every CRNA in their group, man up and stop being lazy, hire as many MDs as needed and make it work, and I'm sure that you will have their attention. Then you demand that if they ever want a job again that's not in BFE they need to make sure not one peep of insubordination, disrespect, mockery, or independent political talk comes out of the ANAAs mouth again.

Yeah. And make all nurses wear their white caps again. And stand up when a physician walks in.

All of these will happen (just wait) after your first billion.

 

[jwk]

I'm sure others know better than I do but to my knowledge there are about 15 states or so where AAs can work. But CRNAs of course are militantly against allowing AAs to expand and fight hard against AAs working in more states. Here is some background though maybe it's outdated:

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2013/12/anesthesiologist-assistants-practice-state.html

Best info at www.anesthetist.org , which is the website for the AAAA.

Continued thanks for all who support us. Indiana came in recently, and practice rights expanded in New Mexico. California didn't make it this year, but don't think we won't be back trying next year.

The biggest hurdle is that each state licenses AA's individually, so the entire legislative process has to be completed in each and every state we seek to establish practice rights. Funny how CRNA's whine constantly about the big mean anesthesiologists demeaning CRNA practice yet CRNA's bash AA's in every state we seek to practice - staggering hypocrisy. They conveniently forget that AA's required a master's level degree when they were still handing out certificates to diploma RN's.

 

[FollowTheMoney]

Yeah. And make all nurses wear their white caps again. And stand up when a physician walks in.

All of these will happen (just wait) after your first billion.

Irony is if I ever became a billionaire, that's exactly what would happen.

 

[Planktonmd]

Irony is if I ever became a billionaire, that's exactly what would happen.

You would have an entourage of women dressed in tight nurse uniforms and cute little hats?

 

[Psai]

You would have an entourage of women dressed in tight nurse uniforms and cute little hats?

i don't see why not

 

[repititionition]

I was happy to see an article pushing back on the midlevel nonsense in the new ASA-MSC newsletter (http://www.asahq.org/~/media/sites/asahq/files/public/about asa/component societies/med-students/asamscnewsletterjuly2015finaltouse.pdf?la=en)

Change happens from the ground up!

 

[deleted162650]

i don't see why not

You obviously haven't seen most nurses these days.

 

[NOsaintsfan]

IF this is true, it is probably the ONLY example ever.

That's unfortunate, hopefully this IS true as reported and more stuff like this will happen in the future.

I know that there are simply not enough anesthesiologists to staff every OR in the US but its not impossible to imagine a situation where the big city or desirable places to live could attract enough docs to staff the OR's and mid-levels are pushed to the rural areas. I'm not saying that will happen but it would be nice if it did. Existing groups would have to be willing to come to terms with reduced income and that makes me less than hopeful. It would also mean that the specialty as a whole would have to work together to make that happen and again, I'm less than hopeful.

 

[FollowTheMoney]

I'm hoping this generation of anesthesiologists take no bull from anyone and are willing to put their proverbial foot down across the country against these CRNAs. The previous generation failed us.

 

[Consigliere]

I'm hoping this generation of anesthesiologists take no bull from anyone and are willing to put their proverbial foot down across the country against these CRNAs. The previous generation failed us.

Hahahahahahaha! I actually spit out my drink when I read this. You're naivety is hilarious.

 

[Consigliere]

its not impossible to imagine a situation where the big city or desirable places to live could attract enough docs to staff the OR's and mid-levels are pushed to the rural areas.

Yes it is. It is impossible.

 

[NOsaintsfan]

Yes it is. It is impossible.

I realize that it's not likely to happen so it basically is impossible. I guess you never know how the future will play out though. Down the line if the average income for anesthesia falls to the mid 200's or even lower why would anyone supervise 4+ nurses for the same pay that the nurse gets. That's a whole lot more stress for the same money. I really hope it doesn't come to that but IF it did then why would hospitals employ CRNA's for the same cost as what you could get a doc to work for?

I realize that if that were to happen it would basically be the end of the specialty as we currently know it but if the bottom actually does fall out like many here predict then the ones to lose the most will be the CRNA's.

Oh well, it stinks for students like me who are picking anesthesia because its what I WANT to do and not for money/lifestyle/whatever. I guess I'll focus on being the best doctor I possibly can and try not to worry about things I can't control.

 

[Man o War]

CRNA salaries are already falling where I am. They're also accepting working conditions that they would've never accepted back when I started. The entitlement is still there for the older CRNAs, but unfortunately for them there are plenty of fresh out of school new grads as well as AAs who take what's offered and shut up about it. They are over producing themselves straight into NP level salaries.

 

[Psai]

CRNA salaries are already falling where I am. They're also accepting working conditions that they would've never accepted back when I started. The entitlement is still there for the older CRNAs, but unfortunately for them there are plenty of fresh out of school new grads as well as AAs who take what's offered and shut up about it. They are over producing themselves straight into NP level salaries.

Which is pretty damn good money for the hours and the education

 

[Man o War]

Which is pretty damn good money for the hours and the education

Yep. That's what I'm talking about with the entitlement. The older ones still think they're in the era where they can demand signing bonuses, shift differentials for weekends and hours after 5, or saying they don't work weekends at all, etc.

 

[Consigliere]

We pay our CRNAs a straight salary. Call, weekends, everything included. I still think we pay them too much but whatever.

 

[deleted126335]

CRNA salaries are already falling where I am. They're also accepting working conditions that they would've never accepted back when I started. The entitlement is still there for the older CRNAs, but unfortunately for them there are plenty of fresh out of school new grads.

Change the word "CRNA" to "anesthesiologist". It fits. Market forces are affecting us too.

 

[chocomorsel]

I think everyone everywhere should fire every CRNA in their group, man up and stop being lazy, hire as many MDs as needed and make it work, and I'm sure that you will have their attention. Then you demand that if they ever want a job again that's not in BFE they need to make sure not one peep of insubordination, disrespect, mockery, or independent political talk comes out of the ANAAs mouth again.

Believe it or not, there are some anesthesiologists who prefer to supervise instead of stool sitting. I know when I did it 3:1, I felt like a chicken with my head cut off. And then I am just sitting there on induction watching and at extubation and whenever I was able to go in and check on them, just feeling kinda weird, unnecessary really. Everything OK? VS stable? Which most times they were. In between I am running taking care of preop visits, PACU checks and discharges. And sometimes walking in on nice surprises as outlined on other threads. Did not like it.

But there are some who think stool sitting is too boring. And since they usually make more money supervising, they aren't interested in doing all their own cases.

Soo.... Not gonna happen.

I am glad I get to do my own cases, but it is harder physically.

 

[criticalelement]

B
I am glad I get to do my own cases, but it is harder physically.

NOt really...

 

[chocomorsel]

NOt really...

I am sorry. What exactly do you mean?

 

[bashwell]

I am sorry. What exactly do you mean?

My guess is he means it's not physically harder to do your own cases than it is to supervise CRNAs, do preop visits, PACU, etc.?

 

[deleted126335]

Believe it or not, there are some anesthesiologists who prefer to supervise instead of stool sitting. I know when I did it 3:1, I felt like a chicken with my head cut off. And then I am just sitting there on induction watching and at extubation and whenever I was able to go in and check on them, just feeling kinda weird, unnecessary really. Everything OK? VS stable? Which most times they were. In between I am running taking care of preop visits, PACU checks and discharges. And sometimes walking in on nice surprises as outlined on other threads. Did not like it.

But there are some who think stool sitting is too boring. And since they usually make more money supervising, they aren't interested in doing all their own cases.

Soo.... Not gonna happen.

I am glad I get to do my own cases, but it is harder physically.

Completely agree. When I started in my current practice, it was a hybrid of supervision and personally administered. Now 99% supervision. Many of the docs consider it beneath them to personally administer anesthesia. Not to mention the financial incentive. I think the days where I did my own cases where a little more physically demanding. The days that I supervise are more emotionally demanding.

 

[deleted171991]

Down the line if the average income for anesthesia falls to the mid 200's or even lower why would anyone supervise 4+ nurses for the same pay that the nurse gets. That's a whole lot more stress for the same money.

One doesn't have too many choices in a saturated market. I wouldn't be shocked to see FP level income, for much higher stress, in the next 10 years.

I really hope it doesn't come to that but IF it did then why would hospitals employ CRNA's for the same cost as what you could get a doc to work for?

If MD salaries fall, CRNA salaries will fall, too, for exactly your reason.

 

[deleted171991]

Many of the docs consider it beneath them to personally administer anesthesia.

This specialty has always been at the crossroads of nursing and medicine. Any physician who considers the nursing side "beneath them" should go find something else to do. They are the ones who created the independent CRNA problem. If the CRNA does most of the work when "supervised", the CRNA will reach the conclusion that s/he can do the same work even unsupervised (and please don't come with stories about how important the anesthesiologist is for the anesthesia plan etc., when s/he doesn't get to be in that room for more than 10-20 minutes/case).

In an ACT model, the anesthesiologist is mostly a paper monkey, a firefighter, and a babysitter. Crazy headless chicken, mostly unaware of the crap the CRNAs pull in the meanwhile (unless one can actively follow the supervised rooms' EMRs on Google glass).

 

[aneftp]

This specialty has always been at the crossroads of nursing and medicine. Any physician who considers the nursing side "beneath them" should go find something else to do. They are the ones who created the independent CRNA problem. If the CRNA does most of the work when "supervised", the CRNA will reach the conclusion that s/he can do the same work even unsupervised (and please don't come with stories about how important the anesthesiologist is for the anesthesia plan etc., when s/he doesn't get to be in that room for more than 10-20 minutes/case).

In an ACT model, the anesthesiologist is mostly a paper monkey, a firefighter, and a babysitter. Crazy headless chicken, mostly unaware of the crap the CRNAs pull in the meanwhile (unless one can actively follow the supervised rooms' EMRs on Google glass).

Problem is (and I can almost guarantee this happens more than it doesn't). Anesthesia ACT models commit medical fraud with "medical direction" billing probably greater than 50% of the time.

Please look over the 7 parts for medical direction. If Crna is inducing in the room without the MD and your group is billing as medical direction. You are committing medical fraud.

If you group is letting CRNA basically fly solo down in endo after you preop patients. And if you are billing it as "general anesthesia" you are committing fraud if you are not in the room while Crna pushes propofol for a "deep sedation/general case".

Read the 7 aspects of medical direction. MD has to be present for "critical aspects" of the case. And I am 100% certain if you are billing as general anesthesia in GI cases your butt better be physically in the room for each GI "induction".

 

[criticalelement]

I think the days where I did my own cases where a little more physically demanding. .

Ive heaard it all now. Sitting on your ass for 2-3 hours at a clip charting stable vital signs, more physically demanding? Are you serious? DOing 3 -4 cases per day?

 

[criticalelement]

What's the latest with AA licensure? If they become licensed in all 50 states and become the premier non-physician provider in the ACT model I would seriously consider this specialty. The crnas can all go work in the icu, where there is a huge shortage.

This is one of the only things the ASA should be working on. FOrget the surgical home project. Forget MOCA. Forget pushing for fellowships. ALl the chairman now are pretty much mandating their folks do fellowships. THey wont even hire people without fellowships. All while 2 year degree CRNAs are practicing independently. ANyone who doesnt see a major problem with this needs their head examined The problem is the folks who are spearheading the ASA work with CRNAs and are afraid of them.

 

[deleted480308]

If MD salaries fall, CRNA salaries will fall, too, for exactly your reason.

Unless states pull with you all what oregon did to family docs....grant full equivalency and then ban pay difference because "they provide the same service". Even private insurance can't pay them differently now...

 

[Carbocation1]

This is one of the only things the ASA should be working on. FOrget the surgical home project. Forget MOCA. Forget pushing for fellowships. ALl the chairman now are pretty much mandating their folks do fellowships. THey wont even hire people without fellowships. All while 2 year degree CRNAs are practicing independently. ANyone who doesnt see a major problem with this needs their head examined The problem is the folks who are spearheading the ASA work with CRNAs and are afraid of them.

Can anyone confirm if this is true? Is it becoming like radiology where 1-2 fellowships are required to find a job?

 

[deleted126335]

Ive heaard it all now. Sitting on your ass for 2-3 hours at a clip charting stable vital signs, more physically demanding? Are you serious? DOing 3 -4 cases per day?

I am serious. Not the days of doing 3-4 healthy ortho or gyn cases. But high turnover ENT room, or endo room doing your own preops. Big vascular cases with lines, squeezing in your own lunch breaks between cases while trying not to hold up the surgeon, etc. yeah those are tougher days physically than supervising when I have good CRNAs. Emotionally, doing my own cases was always much more rewarding. I am 99% supervision now.

 

[criticalelement]

But high turnover ENT room, or endo room doing your own preops. Big vascular cases with lines, squeezing in your own lunch breaks between cases while trying not to hold up the surgeon, etc. yeah those are tougher days physically than supervising when I have good CRNAs. Emotionally, doing my own cases was always much more rewarding. I am 99% supervision now.

I understand what you are saying, but those endo preops are nothing..... just find three things that will make you cancel the case in endo and focus on that... you dont need to know every last thing about the patient. Who cares whether they take 25 or 50 of metoprolol. If you do care you will be there forever i agree.
BIg vascular cases... equals LONG ASS stool sitting cases..... no hard work there... ENT room perhaps lots of running around by no means difficult.

 

[Consigliere]

(and please don't come with stories about how important the anesthesiologist is for the anesthesia plan etc., when s/he doesn't get to be in that room for more than 10-20 minutes/case).

Egads man! You're in the room for that long!?! I would NEVER be able to accomplish anything if I were in the OR for that long each case. Five minutes, tops is all you need. Three minutes or so for induction, couple of 30 second checks throughout the case, then a minute for emergence.

 

[chocomorsel]

Ive heaard it all now. Sitting on your ass for 2-3 hours at a clip charting stable vital signs, more physically demanding? Are you serious? DOing 3 -4 cases per day?

Ok. I do about 4-6 spine cases/combined with +/-1 craniotomy, bouncing between two rooms by myself, putting lines in, flipping fatties over prone, pushing stretchers, not eating, or eating behind the curtains when I can. No endo all day cases for me. With Gen- surg (about 20% of the time) it's about 4-7 fast paced cases done in about 5-6 hours. So yes, it's A LOT more physically demanding for me. Not all a bunch of 2-3 hour cases of healthy ASA 1-2's or pushing propofol all day.

 

[Consigliere]

Ok. I do about 4-6 spine cases/combined with +/-1 craniotomy, bouncing between two rooms by myself, putting lines in, flipping fatties over prone, pushing stretchers, not eating, or eating behind the curtains when I can. No endo all day cases for me. With Gen- surg (about 20% of the time) it's about 4-7 fast paced cases done in about 5-6 hours. So yes, it's A LOT more physically demanding for me. Not all a bunch of 2-3 hour cases of healthy ASA 1-2's or pushing propofol all day.

No offense, pal but what you are doing is a JOKE compared to what I do every day. I typically do 4-6 blocks a day, PICC lines, central lines, epidurals for surgical patients, manage the million PACU calls, review EVERY pt. chart prior to surgery as well as coordinating consults for said charts when appropriate, being present for induction/emergence on dozens of OR cases, replacing crummy floor IVs, massaging surgeons' egos, ensuring an adequate throughput of cases, preventing CRNA disasters, making schedules, attending idiotic meetings, and a bunch of other BS. I am constantly bombarded all day by nurses, techs, surgeons, etc. I would KILL to work in the set up you described. Kill.

 

[deleted126335]

No offense, pal but what you are doing is a JOKE compared to what I do every day. I typically do 4-6 blocks a day, PICC lines, central lines, epidurals for surgical patients, manage the million PACU calls, review EVERY pt. chart prior to surgery as well as coordinating consults for said charts when appropriate, being present for induction/emergence on dozens of OR cases, replacing crummy floor IVs, massaging surgeons' egos, ensuring an adequate throughput of cases, preventing CRNA disasters, making schedules, attending idiotic meetings, and a bunch of other BS. I am constantly bombarded all day by nurses, techs, surgeons, etc. I would KILL to work in the set up you described. Kill.

I leap tall building in a single bound.

 

[Carbocation1]

No offense, pal but what you are doing is a JOKE compared to what I do every day. I typically do 4-6 blocks a day, PICC lines, central lines, epidurals for surgical patients, manage the million PACU calls, review EVERY pt. chart prior to surgery as well as coordinating consults for said charts when appropriate, being present for induction/emergence on dozens of OR cases, replacing crummy floor IVs, massaging surgeons' egos, ensuring an adequate throughput of cases, preventing CRNA disasters, making schedules, attending idiotic meetings, and a bunch of other BS. I am constantly bombarded all day by nurses, techs, surgeons, etc. I would KILL to work in the set up you described. Kill.

Wow, talk about a chicken running with its head cut off...

 

[Psai]

No offense, pal but what you are doing is a JOKE compared to what I do every day. I typically do 4-6 blocks a day, PICC lines, central lines, epidurals for surgical patients, manage the million PACU calls, review EVERY pt. chart prior to surgery as well as coordinating consults for said charts when appropriate, being present for induction/emergence on dozens of OR cases, replacing crummy floor IVs, massaging surgeons' egos, ensuring an adequate throughput of cases, preventing CRNA disasters, making schedules, attending idiotic meetings, and a bunch of other BS. I am constantly bombarded all day by nurses, techs, surgeons, etc. I would KILL to work in the set up you described. Kill.

no wonder you hate your job

 

[Spinach Dip]

No offense, pal but what you are doing is a JOKE compared to what I do every day. I typically do 4-6 blocks a day, PICC lines, central lines, epidurals for surgical patients, manage the million PACU calls, review EVERY pt. chart prior to surgery as well as coordinating consults for said charts when appropriate, being present for induction/emergence on dozens of OR cases, replacing crummy floor IVs, massaging surgeons' egos, ensuring an adequate throughput of cases, preventing CRNA disasters, making schedules, attending idiotic meetings, and a bunch of other BS. I am constantly bombarded all day by nurses, techs, surgeons, etc. I would KILL to work in the set up you described. Kill.

He is.... the Most Interesting MD In The World.

 

[NOsaintsfan]

No offense, pal but what you are doing is a JOKE compared to what I do every day. I typically do 4-6 blocks a day, PICC lines, central lines, epidurals for surgical patients, manage the million PACU calls, review EVERY pt. chart prior to surgery as well as coordinating consults for said charts when appropriate, being present for induction/emergence on dozens of OR cases, replacing crummy floor IVs, massaging surgeons' egos, ensuring an adequate throughput of cases, preventing CRNA disasters, making schedules, attending idiotic meetings, and a bunch of other BS. I am constantly bombarded all day by nurses, techs, surgeons, etc. I would KILL to work in the set up you described. Kill.

This description above is EXACTLY how the docs work where I did my anesthesia rotation. They literally run around like chickens with their heads cut off. I liked it because for me (a student) I got to see and do a ton of stuff. I could see how you could get burnt to a crisp working like that though. Fortunately for the docs in the group I was with they are in the 1% of income earners and get tons of time off but when they are working they literally have NO breaks. These guys hardly had time to take a piss.

 

[chocomorsel]

No offense, pal but what you are doing is a JOKE compared to what I do every day. I typically do 4-6 blocks a day, PICC lines, central lines, epidurals for surgical patients, manage the million PACU calls, review EVERY pt. chart prior to surgery as well as coordinating consults for said charts when appropriate, being present for induction/emergence on dozens of OR cases, replacing crummy floor IVs, massaging surgeons' egos, ensuring an adequate throughput of cases, preventing CRNA disasters, making schedules, attending idiotic meetings, and a bunch of other BS. I am constantly bombarded all day by nurses, techs, surgeons, etc. I would KILL to work in the set up you described. Kill.

This is not a contest. This is to show how much more PHYSICALLY demanding working solo is compared to working with CRNAs. Managing and fielding calls, going to endless idiotic meetings, making schedules isn't exactly physically draining as much as mentally. Oh yes, I do put in lines too and review EVERY patient chart that I am taking care of. And I am not only present for induction and emergence, but there for the ENTIRETY of the case.
Your CRNA's are doing most of the physically taxing parts of the job. That's the reality. You are pushing paper, and sticking people and fielding calls. You aren't moving patients to and from OR beds and pushing stretcher and ICU beds. Been there done that and the reality of it, is that it is DIFFERENT demands.
Oh, and you don't' have to kill to have my setup. Just move. Plenty of folks looking for help here. I am so sure you would be interested in doing your own cases and giving up making money off CRNAs. Whatever Superman.

 

[chocomorsel]

This description above is EXACTLY how the docs work where I did my anesthesia rotation. They literally run around like chickens with their heads cut off. I liked it because for me (a student) I got to see and do a ton of stuff. I could see how you could get burnt to a crisp working like that though. Fortunately for the docs in the group I was with they are in the 1% of income earners and get tons of time off but when they are working they literally have NO breaks. These guys hardly had time to take a piss.

And this is EXACTLY the MAIN reason Docs who supervise do it. Money. When you are billing for three to four CRNA's concurrently, you are gonna make more money than billing for your own solo cases.

 

[deleted126335]

And this is EXACTLY the MAIN reason Docs who supervise do it. Money. When you are billing for three to four CRNA's concurrently, you are gonna make more money than billing for your own solo cases.

Not necessarily. It is where most of the jobs are. Has been that way for a long time and getting more so.