I'm a Caribbean Graduate: Ask me Any Question

[mehc012]

I think it should be pretty easy to see the difference in purpose behind an SDN Pre-med AMA and a Reddit AMA.

This site is intended for medical professionals, both current and aspiring.

While there is certainly an (appropriate) level of levity and humor here, at the same time the majority of the posts/threads/forums are intended to help medical professionals along their journey.

So an SDN AMA should be held to a higher standard than on some other sites.

That said, I don't think every AMA needs to be from an "authority" or from a success story. Hearing SkipJuniors experiences is informative. He is not, in so far as I have seen on this thread, blowing smoke up peoples ass or giving much in the way of "expert advice" (except the basic message that the carib schools are riddled with problems). Giving pre-meds an opportunity to know about what the offshore pathway actually looks like (especially a non top-4 school) does I think add an interesting and potentially educational perspective.

OK, fair enough...I was less trying to say the AMAs could be ANYthing on SDN, and more say that to me, the importance of an AMA is showing a perspective that many people may not be familiar with.

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[SkipJunior]

Apologies if this is a stupid question but..why are Windsor students doing the PLAB exam? I thought Windsor was "under investigation" by GMC.
Also OP did you have any luck with your Pod applications? I've heard NYCPM apparently lets you start from 3rd year if you've passed step 1. I don't know if other Pod schools do the same, but that might be a viable option to pursue.

This just shows how outdated and deceiving the residency list is that's posted on their website. I have a strong suspicion that the residency match list in the link is not for one specific year but for an amalgamation of years, including previous years when Windsor grads could practice in the UK. Hence the match list mentions grads taking the PLAB exam.

Yes I have several pod interview invites, including one from NYCPM! I will be attending them as as well as any MD and DO interview invites I receive. I will also participate in the 2015 residency match. I will make my final decision as to which path I should pursue probably in May/June 2015.

 

[torontopharm]

This just shows how outdated and deceiving the residency list is that's posted on their website. I have a strong suspicion that the residency match list in the link is not for one specific year but for an amalgamation of years, including previous years when Windsor grads could practice in the UK. Hence the match list mentions grads taking the PLAB exam.

Yes I have several interview invites, including one from NYCPM! I will be attending them as as well as any MD and DO interview invites I receive. I will also participate in the 2015 residency match. I will make my final decision as to which path I should pursue probably in May/June 2015.

Certainly. I feel like they just thew in PLAB and the AMC exams in that residency list to lure people into thinking that "don't worry, if USA doesn't work out, you can just move on to UK or Australia". In reality, Australia seems like a tough path with their already existing internship crisis, and i'm pretty sure Windsor grads aren't able to practice in UK anymore. This is just what i gathered from my research..being a neurotic Canadian pre-med so anyone feel free to correct me.

Congrats on the interview invites! Would NYCPM (or other pod schools) grant you transfer credits? That could save you from racking up additional debt.

 

[SkipJunior]

Certainly. I feel like they just thew in PLAB and the AMC exams in that residency list to lure people into thinking that "don't worry, if USA doesn't work out, you can just move on to UK or Australia". In reality, Australia seems like a tough path with their already existing internship crisis, and i'm pretty sure Windsor grads aren't able to practice in UK anymore. This is just what i gathered from my research..being a neurotic Canadian pre-med so anyone feel free to correct me.

Congrats on the interview invites! Would NYCPM (or other pod schools) grant you transfer credits? That could save you from racking up additional debt.

Thanks! Unfortunately they don't accept transfer credits from international medical schools. However, I did confirm with NYCPM earlier about skipping year 1 and 2 so I will be banking on that if I go the pod route.

Are you applying this cycle? Did you know that MSUCOM has 25 seats dedicated exclusively for Canadians? Other DO schools like AZCOM and KCUMB seem to be accepting a lot more Canadians too.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Le sigh...

http://thesouthern.com/news/local/r...cle_abbdd6c4-2c33-11e0-b392-001cc4c03286.html

http://www.yelp.com/biz/royal-plaza-inn-carbondale

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUser...ale-Carbondale_Illinois.html#CHECK_RATES_CONT


http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUser...ale-Carbondale_Illinois.html#CHECK_RATES_CONT

That took ~1 min to find.

Google Windsor medical school and this is one of the first links http://www.tampabay.com/news/busine...medicine-produces-profits-few-doctors/1069719. It lists all of the things Skip has been able to provide. Google any of the shady details and business ventures listed in that article and you get more info. It's not that complex.

I will give that to you. There will still be information that one cannot look up and my initial questions were about percentages of people who graduate windsor and match from the school. This information not exactly easy to get.

Plus, I don't have to dig deep because I can just simply ask the question and get an answer rather quickly. It does not take much effort on my part nor Skip. I would say a 1 minute... and I have that information you provided and some extras

On a side note. You must have mad reading skills to read all of that in 1 minute give or take.

 

[Gigantron]

I can picture it now:

"Hey guys, don't you feel inferior for going DPM?! lulz."

Oh, the irony.

Yeah we got a pretty hearty laugh out of OP.

 

[WillburCobb]

You do realize in someway or form that without his posts you would not have made the connections. A person would not look at the living conditions of the hotel after reading the tampabay article. He or she would just think, "well at least they provide a hotel for the students to study." They would not have delved further. I guess your research stems from my comment "only from an insider" and you maybe right in a sense that it can be found. However, would you really have thought about searching this deep without his comments?

Plus, I don't have to dig deep because I can just simply ask the question and get an answer rather quickly. It does not take much effort on my part nor Skip. I would say a 1 minute... and I have that information you provided and some extras

On a side note. You must have mad reading skills to read all of that in 1 minute give or take.

If I were seriously considering attending Windsor yes this is something I would honestly check out, along with some of the other questionable things Dr. Gaddam is involved in. I would forever doubt the judgement and intellectual capacity someone who only thinks "huh welp at least I get to stay in a hotel" without doing any further research based on the questionable info in that article. Also, I said I found those links in ~ 1 minute, not read.

 

[SkipJunior]

If I were seriously considering attending Windsor yes this is something I would honestly check out, along with some of the other questionable things Dr. Gaddam is involved in. I would forever doubt the judgement and intellectual capacity someone who only thinks "huh welp at least I get to stay in a hotel" without doing any further research based on the questionable info in that article. Also, I said I found those links in ~ 1 minute, not read.

He is not involved in anything now. Dr. Gaddam, founder of Windsor Medical School in the Island of St.Kitts, passed away in early July 2014.

 

[IslandStyle808]

If I were seriously considering attending Windsor yes this is something I would honestly check out, along with some of the other questionable things Dr. Gaddam is involved in. I would forever doubt the judgement and intellectual capacity someone who only thinks "huh welp at least I get to stay in a hotel" without doing any further research based on the questionable info in that article. Also, I said I found those links in ~ 1 minute, not read.

I'd figure you say that and I gave that one to you.

...so you found those links without reading them. You still need to read them to see if it is relevant and then keep on searching if those are not answering the question or partially answering the question. You need to factor that in.

 

[WillburCobb]

I'd figure you say that and I gave that one to you.

...so you found those links without reading them. You still need to read them to see if it is relevant and then keep on searching if those are not answering the question or partially answering the question. You need to factor that in.

Excuse 5 min. None the less, it was minimal effort and readily available info.

 

[Law2Doc]

... Dr. Gaddam, founder of Windsor Medical School in the Island of St.Kitts, passed away in early July 2014.

And took your tuition money with him. If he really even died -- people who set up ventures offshore have a funny habit of disappearing off the grid. (I have nothing to back this up about this guy, other than he was pretty young, just personal history with a few offshore based clients dealing in St Kitts who kind of maybe did something just like this to stiff creditors (and their lawyers)).

All I know is that all of his web statements talk about helping budding med students achieve their dreams, and I'm not convinced he accomplished much more than separating some people with lofty dreams from their wallets.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Excuse 5 min. None the less, it was minimal effort and readily available info.

I will just say agree to disagree. He can give insights that a simple google search won't turn up.

 

[ruedjgtc]

Just out of curiosity, and since this is an "ask anything" thread, hypothetically if you find no spot anywhere will you go to Africa (or any foreign locale) like you said your friend has successfully done @SkipJunior -- if not, why not? Also, how are you dealing with your outstanding loans during this period?

 

[SkipJunior]

Just out of curiosity, and since this is an "ask anything" thread, hypothetically if you find no spot anywhere will you go to Africa (or any foreign locale) like you said your friend has successfully done @SkipJunior -- if not, why not? Also, how are you dealing with your outstanding loans during this period?

If I don't match into a prelim position and if I'm not accepted to a single medical school, then yes, I will seriously consider Africa. I have no problem with that. I was fortunate that I took all my loans from family so they're allowing me more time to repay it.

 

[tmn]

He is not involved in anything now. Dr. Gaddam, founder of Windsor Medical School in the Island of St.Kitts, passed away in early July 2014.

 

[OsteopathicHopeful]

Well, We keep knocking skip for posting but he has done some good. There is no way I'll be attending a carib school!!! I'll stick to my dream of being a DO!

 

[Mr Roboto]

I'm excited for the "I'm a LUCOM Graduate: Ask me anything" thread that'll hopefully pop up in 4 years.

 

[OsteopathicHopeful]

I'm excited for the "I'm a LUCOM Graduate: Ask me anything" thread that'll hopefully pop up in 4 years.

Someone's trying to get brownie points from @Goro

 

[FirstName]

Good.

 

[tmn]

Good.

Solid "first" post?

 

[OsteopathicHopeful]

Lets turn this thread into something relevant:
Speaking of the prophesied residency crunch.....is it going to get ugly for US med students? In other words will there be enough spots in the US for our graduates? what say you @Goro ?

 

[mspeedwagon]

I read through this thread to get one question answered, but didn't see it asked. Maybe I missed it, but of all the Caribbean schools, why Windsor? It definitely seems like one of the shadier ones (even among it's Caribbean counterparts). Why not SGU, AUC, Ross, Saba or even AUA? OP, what made you specifically decide to attend Windsor.

 

[Goro]

Theoretically, at the rate new DO and MD schools are opening, there's a crunch coming, but I don't know when. But I suspect that the AOA, and more importantly, the AMA, have more foresight that the ABA, which did nothing about the lawyer glut.

Keep in mind that a lot of Baby Boom aged doctors will be retiring soon, so that puts a more positive slant towards any potential physician glut for the next 20-50 years.

Lets turn this thread into something relevant:
Speaking of the prophesied residency crunch.....is it going to get ugly for US med students? In other words will there be enough spots in the US for our graduates? what say you @Goro ?

 

[OsteopathicHopeful]

Theoretically, at the rate new DO and MD schools are opening, there's a crunch coming, but I don't know when. But I suspect that the AOA, and more importantly, the AMA, have more foresight that the ABA, which did nothing about the lawyer glut.

Keep in mind that a lot of Baby Boom aged doctors will be retiring soon, so that puts a more positive slant towards any potential physician glut for the next 20-50 years.

I guess I can use this potential threat as fuel to work my ass off in school and not be at the bottom!
Its all we'll be able to do....

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

I read through this thread to get one question answered, but didn't see it asked. Maybe I missed it, but of all the Caribbean schools, why Windsor? It definitely seems like one of the shadier ones (even among it's Caribbean counterparts). Why not SGU, AUC, Ross, Saba or even AUA? OP, what made you specifically decide to attend Windsor.

Cost (skip has said this before)

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

I'm excited for the "I'm a LUCOM Graduate: Ask me anything" thread that'll hopefully pop up in 4 years.

Ha.

This person probably won't be able to find residency either

 

[Mr Roboto]

I personally wouldn't laugh.

Ha.

Be funny if that person can't find residency either

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

I personally wouldn't laugh.

True.

But I honestly don't want people from that school praticing. I would be relieved.

Changed that post a bit

 

[mspeedwagon]

I must have missed it as I skimmed through the thread. Seems like Saba which is in the ballpark would have been a better option. I'm always surprised when I read of people going to the lesser Caribbean schools given how hard it seems to make it out of the Big 4.

Cost (skip has said this before)

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

I must have missed it as I skimmed through the thread. Seems like Saba which is in the ballpark would have been a better option. I'm always surprised when I read of people going to the lesser Caribbean schools given how hard it seems to make it out of the Big 4.

He didn't say that in this thread. I asked about Saba and it was still more money then Windsor.

Also gonna weigh in on skip making an AMA.

I think its fine he did as he has valuable insight but he posted it in the wrong thread (should have been in the carribean thread). However skip intro probably would have trolled it with his pro carribean remarks (he has bragged about having an MD before and said how DOs are looked down upon if I'm not mistaken.

 

[SkipJunior]

He didn't say that in this thread. I asked about Saba and it was still more money then Windsor.

Also gonna weigh in on skip making an AMA.

I think its fine he did as he has valuable insight but he posted it in the wrong thread (should have been in the carribean thread). However skip intro probably would have trolled it with his pro carribean remarks (he has bragged about having an MD before and said how DOs are looked down upon if I'm not mistaken.

Yes he has in several different occasions, which is why I don't have a high opinion of skip intro.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Yes he has in several different occasions, which is why I don't have a high opinion of skip intro.

I agree with some things but he makes carribean out to be a viable option for those that work hard enough instead of the crazy last ditch gamble that it is. As you had the harsh reality of finding out skip.

 

[SkipJunior]

I agree with some things but he makes carribean out to be a viable option for those that work hard enough instead of the crazy last ditch gamble that it is. As you had the harsh reality of finding out skip.

You took the words out of my mouth. He keeps saying that if you know what you're getting into and you're motivated and hard working, you can join a Caribbean medical school even now and match into a primary care residency. This advice is misleading. If someone is that motivated and hard-working, they can do what they need to do to be ready to apply to US MD/DO schools, not bet on a crazy gamble.

 

[rushmore4]

Why did you go to a caribbean school? I feel like your pretty much saying you graduated, but you are pretty much going to restart medical school? That is insane!

 

[SkipJunior]

Why did you go to a caribbean school? I feel like your pretty much saying you graduated, but you are pretty much going to restart medical school? That is insane!

Yes sir, it is insane. My stats were not good enough for a US MD program and I was too snooty (foolish) to consider US DO programs. I chose Windsor because it gives out MDs and it had low tuition costs.

 

[torontopharm]

Thanks! Unfortunately they don't accept transfer credits from international medical schools. However, I did confirm with NYCPM earlier about skipping year 1 and 2 so I will be banking on that if I go the pod route.

Are you applying this cycle? Did you know that MSUCOM has 25 seats dedicated exclusively for Canadians? Other DO schools like AZCOM and KCUMB seem to be accepting a lot more Canadians too.

Hey yeah i knew about the MSUCOM thing but didn't know about the others. Thank you for the information!
I'm applying to DO schools next cycle most likely. I'm interested in Pod as well, but what scares me is the fact that not a lot of Pod residency spots are available for international (Canadian) kids. That's the whole reason why i looked into Caribbean/international med options. I have friends that graduated from MUA and SABA (where literally 80% students are Canadian) and were able to match..but this was 4-5 years ago. The outlook now looks bleak at best. I'd rather "waste" a year in Canada trying to improve my credentials for DO schools than go to the Caribbean.

 

[torontopharm]

I must have missed it as I skimmed through the thread. Seems like Saba which is in the ballpark would have been a better option. I'm always surprised when I read of people going to the lesser Caribbean schools given how hard it seems to make it out of the Big 4.

SABA looks like the "best" option. 50-state approval and cheapest tuition out of big 4. But even going to SABA, you'll end up with about 200k in debt if you factor in living costs. That's a LOT of money invested in uncertain future.

 

[rushmore4]

Yes sir, it is insane. My stats were not good enough for a US MD program and I was too snooty (foolish) to consider US DO programs. I chose Windsor because it gives out MDs and it had low tuition costs.

What does your family say about this?

 

[SkipJunior]

What does your family say about this?

My family was not that educated about medical education at that time and trusted me blindly. Of course they were unhappy with how life turned out for me but they are hopeful about the future.

 

[Law2Doc]

Theoretically, at the rate new DO and MD schools are opening, there's a crunch coming, but I don't know when. But I suspect that the AOA, and more importantly, the AMA, have more foresight that the ABA, which did nothing about the lawyer glut.

Keep in mind that a lot of Baby Boom aged doctors will be retiring soon, so that puts a more positive slant towards any potential physician glut for the next 20-50 years.

The ABA has long taken the position that law schools are not the gatekeeper of the profession, and that a formal legal education brings a lot if value to a variety of jobs even if you never choose to sit for a state bar and become a practicing lawyer. I would kind of agree with that, the typical business person could save themselves a lot of headaches if they didn't approach contracts as if they were an idiot with a pen and as if statements like "not worth the paper it's printed on" actually played out that way in court, ever. So the ABA let's state bars decide how many lawyers there ought to be in their respective states. The ABA is not involved in the number of lawyers, just the number of law students and there has never been close to a 1:1 correlation. During good economic times and the dot.com boom, the demand for lawyers skyrocketed, and state bars collectively shrugged off their obligations, increase bar exam pass rates and let too many people in. As things crashed back to earth that's why there are too many lawyers. The AAMC (not really the AMA) is in a bit of a different position. Nobody would suggest that an MD without a residency is all that valuable. So the number of seats in med school are kind of capped at the number of residency slots. The AAMC goal now (since around 2005) is for US grads to approximate that number of spots, and force everyone else out of the game. But there can never really be a glut of doctors because the government pays for residency slots and it's a hard sell to get taxpayers to want to subsidize more rich doctors training.

 

[OsteopathicHopeful]

The ABA has long taken the position that law schools are not the gatekeeper of the profession, and that a formal legal education brings a lot if value to a variety of jobs even if you never choose to sit for a state bar and become a practicing lawyer. I would kind of agree with that, the typical business person could save themselves a lot of headaches if they didn't approach contracts as if they were an idiot with a pen and as if statements like "not worth the paper it's printed on" actually played out that way in court, ever. So the ABA let's state bars decide how many lawyers there ought to be in their respective states. The ABA is not involved in the number of lawyers, just the number of law students and there has never been close to a 1:1 correlation. During good economic times and the dot.com boom, the demand for lawyers skyrocketed, and state bars collectively shrugged off their obligations, increase bar exam pass rates and let too many people in. As things crashed back to earth that's why there are too many lawyers. The AAMC (not really the AMA) is in a bit of a different position. Nobody would suggest that an MD without a residency is all that valuable. So the number of seats in med school are kind of capped at the number of residency slots. The AAMC goal now (since around 2005) is for US grads to approximate that number of spots, and force everyone else out of the game. But there can never really be a glut of doctors because the government pays for residency slots and it's a hard sell to get taxpayers to want to subsidize more rich doctors training.

Hmm.... Good insight thanks!

 

[mspeedwagon]

But if you do the math of Windsor vs SABA it's not a big difference if you consider the track record of one vs the other. From what I can gather, you are looking at the difference of 125k vs. 175k (using number from the schools' websites and including accommodations).

I guess that leads to a question for the OP. What is current debt load? I know you borrowed it from family, but how much did it cost you overall?

SABA looks like the "best" option. 50-state approval and cheapest tuition out of big 4. But even going to SABA, you'll end up with about 200k in debt if you factor in living costs. That's a LOT of money invested in uncertain future.

 

[SkipJunior]

But if you do the math of Windsor vs SABA it's not a big difference if you consider the track record of one vs the other. From what I can gather, you are looking at the difference of 125k vs. 175k (using number from the schools' websites and including accommodations).

I guess that leads to a question for the OP. What is current debt load? I know you borrowed it from family, but how much did it cost you overall?

I was fortunate that I received a full ride scholarship for undergrad (National Merit Scholarship) so I only had to take out loans from family for Windsor. My current debt load is about a 100k.

 

[MU420]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/03/education/edlife/second-chance-med-school.html

OP, what's your opinion on this article? Would you say that it overglorifies the Caribbean schools or underestimates them?

 

[Gauss44]

1. Were most of your classrooms air conditioned? A heat sensitive student wants to know.

2. Do you have any idea how easy it is to get disability accommodations in the Caribbean compared with the continental USA?

 

[Law2Doc]

1. Were most of your classrooms air conditioned? A heat sensitive student wants to know.

2. Do you have any idea how easy it is to get disability accommodations in the Caribbean compared with the continental USA?

Um, I think we decided he's on here saying it's a really bad idea and cost him $100k and at least four years of a career. So if it sways you away, let's assume there's none of these niceties. Just beaches and bad match rates.

 

[SkipJunior]

1. Were most of your classrooms air conditioned? A heat sensitive student wants to know.

2. Do you have any idea how easy it is to get disability accommodations in the Caribbean compared with the continental USA?

Some classrooms were, some weren't. I do know that the Big 4 schools (SGU, Ross, AUC, Saba) offer a fully air conditioned campus i.e lecture halls, study halls etc. I can't comment on disability accommodations since I never had to use it or knew anyone who did. You would have to contact the schools you are interested in and find out. I assume it would be harder in the Caribbean.

Keep in mind though that the overwhelming majority of these Caribbean medical schools are located in poor developing countries with poor infrastructure. Although schools like Ross for example may offer air-conditioned classrooms and filtered water on campus, off campus is a very different story. Expect to have frequent blackouts in the island due to electricity shortages. Expect to have brown murky water stream out of your taps now and again. Expect groceries to be more expensive than the US since food is mostly shipped into the islands. Expect to be harassed now and then by locals (beggars in the beach etc.). Westerners are sometimes looked upon as easy prey by hungry poor natives.

 

[SkipJunior]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/03/education/edlife/second-chance-med-school.html

OP, what's your opinion on this article? Would you say that it overglorifies the Caribbean schools or underestimates them?

I don't like the fact that this article doesn't include two crucial points about SGU:

1. With the upcoming residency crunch, a lot more SGU grads will not match into a residency in the future than the number of grads that go unmatched now.

2. SGU has a notorious practice (like most Carib medical schools) of over-enrolling students (enrolling a lot more students than they have clinical rotations available for) and then dismissing hundreds of students during their 1st and 2nd years of medical school. SGU does this to make more money, at the failed student's expense. Not to mention the fact that taking classes with 400-500 students can be very unpleasant and can ensure that the average student has no contact with the professor.

 

[petyr_baelish]

How is your application cycle going, @SkipJunior ? Best of luck to you!

 

[SkipJunior]

How is your application cycle going, @SkipJunior ? Best of luck to you!

Good so far. Attended a few interviews and I'm still waiting for the results. Thanks for asking.