Im a P3 considering of going for my MD after graduation, am I crazy?

[mndt87]

Im a P3 considering of going for my MD after graduation, am I crazy? I will be 28 when I graduate pharmacy school.

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[type b pharmD]

Im a P3 considering of going for my MD after graduation, am I crazy? I will be 28 when I graduate pharmacy school.

Maybe...

If you want to diagnose and treat patients or perform surgery, no. Happens all the time.

If you think pharmacy is too limiting and not exciting enough, then yes.

By all means pursue med school, but take a look around and make absolutely sure first that there isnt something in pharmacy that would be fulfilling to you.

 

[mndt87]

I have recently stated working in a community pharmacy and I hate to see the misuse of medications. I feel I am limited to making an impact on patient care since most physicians will listen to our "recommendation" but will not necessarily enforce them. I feel pharmacists are powerless but I do feel that we know our have enough knowledge to teach a physician a thing or two!

 

[eagles22]

I did the switch after my second year and couldn't be happier. The really hard part is the fact that you'll be back in the classroom for 2 more years which feels very long. 4 more years for med school. 3+ years for residency. Fellowship. You're looking at around 10 years until you are practicing. Can you wait until you're approaching 40 to start your career? The good news is that if you work a few shifts a month you can pay off med school as you go.

 

[mndt87]

I don't know. I have been in school forever I don't think I can imagine my life without it. lol

 

[type b pharmD]

I have recently stated working in a community pharmacy and I hate to see the misuse of medications. I feel I am limited to making an impact on patient care since most physicians will listen to our "recommendation" but will not necessarily enforce them. I feel pharmacists are powerless but I do feel that we know our have enough knowledge to teach a physician a thing or two!

Why not clinical pharmacy? Why not outcomes research? Why not other areas where pharmacists input is more relevant?

This is your $200,000 question.

 

[BeLikeBueller]

Im a P3 considering of going for my MD after graduation, am I crazy? I will be 28 when I graduate pharmacy school.

Make sure you take as many clinical rotations as you can in your fourth year. You may find a clinical pharmacy specialty that suits your interests. In addition, if you're on a rounding service at a teaching hospital, you'll get a lot of exposure to the work and/or life of physicians, residents, and med students. Then you'll be able to make a more informed decision about whether or not it would be worth it.

The other thing you can do is seek out the advice of a PharmD, MD or a PharmD, DO. A quick internet search might reveal a few in your area. There are also a few that frequent these boards as well.

 

[mndt87]

Why not clinical pharmacy? Why not outcomes research?

Can I really make a difference there? Please tell me. I have shadowed hospital pharmacists where they take care of patients but still have to double check with the attending before their recommendations are taken. Any feedback will be appreciated! THANK YOU!

 

[type b pharmD]

Can I really make a difference there? Please tell me. I have shadowed hospital pharmacists where they take care of patients but still have to double check with the attending before their recommendations are taken. Any feedback will be appreciated! THANK YOU!

Research what is called ambulatory care pharmacy. Also managed care pharmacy.

I think pharmacists can make a big difference in any setting!

 

[mndt87]

Research what is called ambulatory care pharmacy. Also managed care pharmacy.

I think pharmacists can make a big difference in any setting!

Yes we can! Thank you, I have lots to think about.

 

[BMBiology]

You should also consider your student loan debt. Is interest going to keep on accruing while you are still in school? How much is medical school going to cost you?

Ambulatory care and managed care pharmacy usually require 1-2 years of residency and of course nothing is guarenteed. It's going to be very competitive and there are plenty of residency trained pharmacists who are working in jobs that do not require a residency.

Since you are already 28, I would consider PA or NP school. Training is less. You can write prescriptions and have direct patient care.

 

[BeLikeBueller]

You should also consider your student loan debt. Is interest going to keep on accruing while you are still in school? How much is medical school going to cost you?

Ambulatory care and managed care pharmacy usually require 1-2 years of residency and of course nothing is guarenteed. It's going to be very competitive and there are plenty of residency trained pharmacists who are working in jobs that do not require a residency.

Since you are already 28, I would consider PA or NP school. Training is less. You can write prescriptions and have direct patient care.

I would imagine you would have to have a BS in nursing to do an NP, right?

In either case you will likely take a pay cut (see BLS salary info).

BMB is definitely right about loan debt. Plus you have to figure an opportunity cost on lost pharmacy salary for 7+ years.

Either way you give something up, so just make sure you count your costs.

 

[Digsbe]

I'm somewhat in the same boat. I'm a P2 considering going to DO school after I graduate. I'm really beginning to enjoy diagnostics and would like to apply more of my therapeutics knowledge. For me, the added years involved wouldn't be a big burden (I'll be 26 when I graduate pharm school) and am happy with practicing and finishing a residency around age 33-35. I have no intention of dropping out of pharm school and would work in med school to help pay things off (probably make around 40-60k per year) by working as much as I can during breaks and a few per diem shifts while in school. There may be additional cost with loans (interest won't compound until you are in repayment but will build on principal) but I feel like it could be dramatically offset by working some. I would be taking a pay cut by not working full time for 7-9 years of my life with a degree that produces mostly six figure jobs, but in the end physician pay is generally higher with the potential to be much higher. From an economic standpoint I think it would balance out if not exceed what I would have made as a pharmacist over a few years. Economics and personal financing is important, but even so it may be worth the additional cost (at least to me). I am not completely turned off to clinical pharmacy, I would love to do disease management but sadly few states have such a progressive practice model and I fear that the jobs just aren't there.

 

[kendrick lamar]

Plenty of people have done it and you'll find several on this forum. I'm on the same boat as you and I'm a P4. I'm probably going to wait a year or two before I actually apply to see if it is absolutely something I want to do. I'm on rotations right now and so far I do like what the med students are doing and am learning a lot, but I'm keeping my mind open between clinical pharmacy and med school. Clinical pharmacy is a pretty great option but with pharmacy in general your main focus is on the drugs, which is definitely important but personally I find diagnosis intriguing. Also I think the practice of clinical pharmacy isn't always consistent in every hospital, but worth looking into if you haven't yet. Feel free to PM me with any more questions

 

[PharMed2016]

Im a P3 considering of going for my MD after graduation, am I crazy? I will be 28 when I graduate pharmacy school.

Crazy?! No... Crazy is jumping off a plane 40,000-ft in the air without a parachute.

 

[farmadiazepine]

It all depends on what you want.

For me, there is no way I want to spend another $200,000 for school, be in school for another 4 years, and wait almost 10 years to start practicing and making good money. There are so many opportunities in pharmacy, and I feel like most people do not look hard enough for them. Most people think there is a only a hospital pharmacist and a retail pharmacist.

If you want to go to medical school because you think your life is not fulfilled enough, I think you should reevaluate. Working in retail pharmacy alone you can impact so many people directly.

If it's for money, medical school is a waste of time at this point. If it's for the feeling of being fulfilled, again, pharmacy has so many opportunities.

I like pharmacy because you can have a balance in life. Work life. Personal life. With medicine, your defined as a person as a doctor, and that's really it. Your work is your life. Sure, you can do super fun stuff once in a while like go snowboarding, go to Coachella, etc but in the end of the day your always coming back to being a doctor and work is your life. Just my opinion.

 

[PharMed2016]

Just as a small aside, my own financial calculations (not including taxes and interest earned on loss wages/loans)... it will take approximately 50ish years for a physician earning approximalte 200k to break even with a pharmacist earning 100k. I tried to adjust for hours worked and even residency in these calculations. If you factor interest, it is quite possible the break-even point is much further on or even never.

 

[BIOGUY2119]

I'm somewhat in the same boat. I'm a P2 considering going to DO school after I graduate. I'm really beginning to enjoy diagnostics and would like to apply more of my therapeutics knowledge. For me, the added years involved wouldn't be a big burden (I'll be 26 when I graduate pharm school) and am happy with practicing and finishing a residency around age 33-35. I have no intention of dropping out of pharm school and would work in med school to help pay things off (probably make around 40-60k per year) by working as much as I can during breaks and a few per diem shifts while in school. There may be additional cost with loans (interest won't compound until you are in repayment but will build on principal) but I feel like it could be dramatically offset by working some. I would be taking a pay cut by not working full time for 7-9 years of my life with a degree that produces mostly six figure jobs, but in the end physician pay is generally higher with the potential to be much higher. From an economic standpoint I think it would balance out if not exceed what I would have made as a pharmacist over a few years. Economics and personal financing is important, but even so it may be worth the additional cost (at least to me). I am not completely turned off to clinical pharmacy, I would love to do disease management but sadly few states have such a progressive practice model and I fear that the jobs just aren't there.

This is exactly my plan as well, I will be graduating next May with my pharmD and looking to make the transition into med school. The IBR and PAYE repayment plans are good options along with the 20 year loan forgiveness or the 10 yr public service loan forgiveness. I know alot of people in my class have considered the MD/DO route after pharmD school but most are just so burned out they don't want to have to deal with any more classroom work and most don't have the grades to apply or have the ambition to study for the MCAT. I just feel like in my school at least they teach us so much pathophysiology that it really intrigues you and makes you want to be able to diagnose and design your own medication therapy plan. I also believe that the pharmD/MD would make for a excellent physician as you would have a vast knowledge of medications from the start of med school and have a leg up on the other students. Its comforting to see that other students are also pursuing the same route, its like a little support group

 

[BMBiology]

The only loan repayment plan that would "forgive" your student loan is the 10 year public service plan. IBR/PAYE require you to pay income taxes on any amount that is "forgiven".

There is already some discussion that these plans may not be available for high earners like physicians and pharmacists in the future so be cautious.

 

[kendrick lamar]

This is exactly my plan as well, I will be graduating next May with my pharmD and looking to make the transition into med school. The IBR and PAYE repayment plans are good options along with the 20 year loan forgiveness or the 10 yr public service loan forgiveness. I know alot of people in my class have considered the MD/DO route after pharmD school but most are just so burned out they don't want to have to deal with any more classroom work and most don't have the grades to apply or have the ambition to study for the MCAT. I just feel like in my school at least they teach us so much pathophysiology that it really intrigues you and makes you want to be able to diagnose and design your own medication therapy plan. I also believe that the pharmD/MD would make for a excellent physician as you would have a vast knowledge of medications from the start of med school and have a leg up on the other students. Its comforting to see that other students are also pursuing the same route, its like a little support
group

I'm also graduating in May and feel the same way. I don't have the best grades either, but my pre-req grades were fairly good. Feel free to PM me

 

[Alby]

I'm a PharmD and MS3. I don't regret it at all! But don't do it if you are in it for the money, or if you already have a family (the time commitment is huge, plus if you per diem, as I do, you rarely have a single day off which is too hard on a family IMO)

And I keep saying this, but we really should have a PharmD MD support group

 

[kendrick lamar]

I'm a PharmD and MS3. I don't regret it at all! But don't do it if you are in it for the money, or if you already have a family (the time commitment is huge, plus if you per diem, as I do, you rarely have a single day off which is too hard on a family IMO)

And I keep saying this, but we really should have a PharmD MD support group

I would really like that, I think it's interesting how many people here are considering

 

[PharmlyDoc]

I'm a PharmD and MS3. I don't regret it at all! But don't do it if you are in it for the money, or if you already have a family (the time commitment is huge, plus if you per diem, as I do, you rarely have a single day off which is too hard on a family IMO)

And I keep saying this, but we really should have a PharmD MD support group

I'm fascinated that PharmD's opt to go to medical school after achieving a PharmD. Did you earn a bachelors before pharm school? And did adcoms care more about your pharm or undergrad gpa, also who wrote your lors?

 

[BIOGUY2119]

I'm fascinated that PharmD's opt to go to medical school after achieving a PharmD. Did you earn a bachelors before pharm school? And did adcoms care more about your pharm or undergrad gpa, also who wrote your lors?

I've spoke with multiple medical schools and they stated that they review each candidate in a "holistic" manner and would be inclined to place more emphasis on my most recent coursework (PharmD) as opposed to my BS in Biology gpa. They stated b/c of my high PharmD gpa that I would be highly competitive and someone that they would definitely interview. I have two LOR from undergrad and 4 from my PharmD program, I think its best if you can get LOR from undergrad as well as from your PharmD program.

 

[PharmlyDoc]

I've spoke with multiple medical schools and they stated that they review each candidate in a "holistic" manner and would be inclined to place more emphasis on my most recent coursework (PharmD) as opposed to my BS in Biology gpa. They stated b/c of my high PharmD gpa that I would be highly competitive and someone that they would definitely interview. I have two LOR from undergrad and 4 from my PharmD program, I think its best if you can get LOR from undergrad as well as from your PharmD program.

How do your undergrad professors remember you?

 

[Alby]

I'm fascinated that PharmD's opt to go to medical school after achieving a PharmD. Did you earn a bachelors before pharm school? And did adcoms care more about your pharm or undergrad gpa, also who wrote your lors?

Yes, I have a BS in biochem and molecular biology.
Not sure what they cared about, but I agree with what was said above. Admissions is sort of a nebulous process, even after you have been accepted.
My pharm gpa was 3.96 and my undergrad was around 3.6 if that helps.
I had 3 letters, the schools I applied to took only 3. One was from a GP doc that I worked for during high school and undergrad. One was from an undergrad professor I did research with and the other was from one of associate deans of my pharmacy school.

 

[BIOGUY2119]

How do your undergrad professors remember you?

I did research for both of them and still talk to them.

 

[kendrick lamar]

So most of you have done 4 years of undergrad, then pharm? I guess this is something I will have to take into consideration as i'm in a 0-6 program and I am hearing a lot about how some schools don't accept just a PharmD and also require a BA/BS. My overall GPA was not very high, although my pre-reqs were pretty reasonable. I am a bit concerned about my GPA being the biggest limiting factor in the application process, but I am learning a tons more after getting practical experience with rotations and hope that I can just get more practical experiences before I actually consider applying. I think that would also help me get letters of recommendation because the only people I have contacts with are PharmDs

 

[mndt87]

I'm a PharmD and MS3. I don't regret it at all! But don't do it if you are in it for the money, or if you already have a family (the time commitment is huge, plus if you per diem, as I do, you rarely have a single day off which is too hard on a family IMO)

And I keep saying this, but we really should have a PharmD MD support group

I love that idea! I spoke to my family about it and they are very supportive as well. I cannot wait to see what the future has in store for me!

 

[mndt87]

As I read all your responses I feel a little less crazy. Phewwww!

 

[PharmlyDoc]

As I read all your responses I feel a little less crazy. Phewwww!

Of course you would have to take the mcat. And it will be longer starting in 2015. Which reminds me that Rutgers has a dual pharmd/md program where applicants apply at the end of their p2 year, and Rutgers doesn't require the mcat for the dual degree program.

 

[VCU07]

I made the transition 3 years out of pharmacy school. I was actually wait listed and didn't think I'd get in that year, but they accepted me very close to start time. I understand the reasoning behind wanting to do this, but think it out meticulously !

I underestimated the financial impact it would have on student loan debt. Part of the problem was that I instinctly decided to enter that year without enough time to truly think through all aspects of the situation. I was so set on accomplishing my dream that I lost sight of everything else.

Second, if you have a family you may want to consider how time away will affect them. When I started my wife had already supported me through pharmacy school. Plus, we had a small child. It's not easy emotionally and taking them into consideration is crucial.

I did have another pharmacist in my class, but his situation was a bit different in that he took the military scholarships in exchange for time served. He, too has a family and I have nothing but respect for his success and accomplishments.

I decided to take a leave before the end of my first semester to think things through. It was a financial disaster, even over the long term. I decided not to return. Honestly, I would be graduating in a few months, but I decided to move on and find happiness in pharmacy. It hasn't been easy and not a day goes by that I don't think about my choice. So, think it through before making the biggest decision of you're life.

 

[desklamp]

I hope you read this- I was in a very similar position as you (disinterest in clinical pharmacy, feeling like I couldn't make a difference) and also pre-med during undergrad, so had access to a lot of friends who went through the MD program (long story). I ended up not going the MD route because of the extra 8-10 years it would tack onto my training and the financial burden of paying for 2 professional programs.

There are 2 things you need to be sure of before making this switch.
1) Can you afford it? I don't know how much you've taken out in terms of loans for ugrad and pharmacy school, but that interest is going to compound as your years progress. Also take into account the cost of medical school- are you in a state where the medical schools have cheap in-state tuition (e.g. texas)? Are you paying in-state for pharmacy school currently? It might be financially feasible then. If you aren't a competitive candidate for med school and have to settle for a private university somewhere out of state, your tuition is going to be upwards 60-70k per year.

2) Is medicine what you really want to do? Do NOT enter medical school if your sole reason is "I want to have authority". This has been impressed upon me by a lot of physician mentors I shadowed. It's a shallow reason, and isn't looked upon favorably by adcom as a reason to switch from pharmacy. Do medicine if you really, genuinely want to help patients, if you are ready for having complete responsibility for the patient and not have someone else to fall back on, and if you love the science behind diagnosis and creating evidence based tx plans.

You probably have already started doing this, but find physicians to shadow. And shadow them a lot. Talk to them about their motivation and lifestyles. Talk to medical students about how they like their program. Some of my friends loathe being a medical student and some of my friends love it.

I still love medicine, but ultimately because I wanted to settle down (I am around the same age as you) and not be 400k in debt, I decided to pursue a fellowship and enter clinical research/drug development as a career. It's super exciting, you can end up in a position where you influence the design of clinical trials, and the work/life balance is amazing. Just something to look into : ).

 

[BMBiology]

2 great posts!

Whatever decision you make now will dictate the path you will take for the rest of your life. Always take cost into consideration. Don't take on more debt just because pharmacy is not what you had expected.

I know plenty of pharmacists with MPH, master in regulatory affairs, MBA, etc working in retails. There is nothing wrong with doing retail but I don't think that was the goal for these pharmacists.

 

[CosmopolitanRx]

2 great posts!

Whatever decision you make now will dictate the path you will take for the rest of your life. Always take cost into consideration. Don't take on more debt just because pharmacy is not what you had expected.

I know plenty of pharmacists with MPH, master in regulatory affairs, MBA, etc working in retails. There is nothing wrong with doing retail but I don't think that was the goal for these pharmacists.

I posted in the pharmacy outlook mega-thread that 3 of my classmates that have masters are working retail (masters in biochemistry, public health and math). 2 are working big chains and one is in grocery store. Nothing wrong with retail, like you said BMBiology, but if I had a Masters (especially in math or biochem), I don't think my masters can help me move far in retail......industry, informatics, and other specialty fields....yes. Even if the market for pharmacists is crazy now and maybe those classmates are using the money to pay down their loans, but I seriously would have aimed for niche markets that doesn't involve retail or hospital.

 

[MatCauthon]

A few VERY important things I didn't see discussed in this thread:

1. Interest on student loans DOES accrue the whole time you are in medical school. Subsidized loans for graduate students have been gone since 2012, so you will almost assuredly have loans that are unsubsidized during medical school. Also remember that you likely have unsubsidized loans from pre-2012 because there is an annual cap on how many unsubsidized loans you were allowed to get. These unsubsidized loans could easily turn into 15k plus interest while you are medical school. That is not even considering the unsubsidized interest you will be paying while in medical school. Plus, it will be difficult to pay off during residency. Also remember that the student loan rate is no longer fixed, and many people will predict that it will go higher that 6.8% fixed rate that we had for several years.

2. There is a cap on how total Stafford loans you can take out. The limit was 224k, although it may changed recently. A vast number of medical students exceed the annual amount of Stafford loans disbursed to pay for the medical school. Unless you are independently wealthy you will exceed the limit of these loans quite easily. You will have to take out loans from other sources such as GradPlus that have much higher interest rates. You are going to have seriously consider how you are going to fund your medical school.

3. Per diem pharmacy work is not as easy to find or as flexible as it used to be. I've been working per diem and relief jobs since I graduated (haven't received a full-time job offer in 2 year since graduation). Employers want per diem workers to have a certain amount of availability. There are tons of pharmacists that just want to pick up a few weekend shifts. New grads and other underemployed pharmacists are swallowing up most of the per diem work out there. When I graduated, I talked to a few staffing companies and they would not hire me unless I gave them complete availability on weekdays. So the moral of the story here: do not depend on per diem work to pay off a significant chunk of your medical school expenses. You may have a connection now, but it might not last as long as you think it will. I have already experienced drastic hours cuts at one of my per diem jobs in the last year.

4. Financially, medical school may not be worth it even disregarding the fact that you went to pharmacy school. Read this article:
http://www.medicalschoolsuccess.com/is-being-a-doctor-worth-it-financially/

4. Inner-satisfaction. You once picked the pharmacy career for a variety of reasons. You are now afraid you made the wrong choice. I would reflect on what really makes you happy. It is a mistake to assume that being a doctor will fulfill all of your inner-needs. There are pharmacists that are ridiculously content, and doctors that are ridiculously miserable. Read the book "The Power of Now" by Echart Tolle. If you can become aware of what is coming from your ego and what is coming from deeper-self, you will be so much farther ahead in the game. The ego is always looking for ways to expand itself, and these things can only bring temporary enjoyment. So many people in the medical professions suffer from a type of depression. There are ways to change your mental perspective so that life becomes much more uplifting and satisfying. Just remember that the more time you toil in residency and school, the less time you actually have to really enjoy life and reflect on the things that matter the most.

 

[kendrick lamar]

It's good to hear both sides of the story, clearly it seems like some people here are very happy with their switch to medicine while some aren't. I've seen both sides of the coin on this forum and I think ultimately I would need more time shadowing and doing research before I make the ultimate consideration. I do see that going from pharm to med is common for people in 0-6 programs and in many cases 4+4 as well, and I already know a kid in my class who has done it. I am still going to consider it. I know in medicine and medical school you ultimately have no life outside of medicine, but even having time off I had with pharmacy due to not having a job and having some easy rotations, I was still depressed but don't so far seem to mind 11-12 hours everyday in a hospital. You have to really talk to people to get the right perspective and just think about what works best for you.

 

[BMBiology]

If I may be blunt with your situation. You have mediocre grades. You can't find a pharmacy job. And now you are thinking about applying to medical schools?

Cut your loss. Look into PA and nursing schools. Still a good career.

 

[kendrick lamar]

If I may be blunt with your situation. You have mediocre grades. You can't find a pharmacy job. And now you are thinking about applying to medical schools?

Cut your loss. Look into PA and nursing schools. Still a good career.

...I don't have the greatest grades, but I never said they were mediocre lol...I'm doing my research and will continue to do so, but yes, I'm still considering medical school.

 

[MackandBlues]

I got accepted this past cycle to medical school but declined the admission and any further interview invites. I decided to stay and make the best out of pharmacy. Financially it would have been tough - I totally agree on the above poster that mentioned the cap on stafford loans if you will be spending more than $49k per year on school and anywhere outside of texas you probably will - you will have to take out private loans (meaning higher interest rate based on your credit probably) to cover your schooling and living expenses.
Just think about your goals in life. Want to get married and have children while in medical school? can be done but will be challenging to balance everything. I had to go through the whole interview process to figure out what I wanted to do.
Also shadowing doctors is a requirement - you must do this and it will help make your decision.

 

[rph96]

In my experience in pharmacy school (last of BS programs), I had two other fellow pharmacy students who went on for MD degrees. One went IM and the other into anesthesia. I also took the IntMed route. In my day one had to choose between a 2 year post-BS pharmD vs a 4 year MD route so the choices for the MD route did not look as tough as it would be today. If I were making that choice today, I would have a hard time picking the MD route since a PharmD has a lot better options than a BS program years ago and the economics are much less favorable.

I am not sure one will find an economic payoff, unless you do a specialty/subspecialty MD route. Back in my day the cost of medical school was about 1/2 of what it is now and I still have not gotten a payoff on the extra investment. If you go the specialty route to get the better return on investment but you also reduce the value of your pharmacy training since you one deal in a couple of handfuls of drugs in most sub-specialty areas (Cards for instance)--or like 5 drugs if you are a radiologist.

Unlike pharmacy, in medicine your day ends when the patient is appropriately managed and not at the end of your shift (and there is no overtime). As a physician you have a pager and take call in your practice sometimes up to every 4th night if you are in a small group. Doing the economic analysis as an IM doc you will make 160-200k depending on practice setting, hours and call. When you compare this will pharmacy salaries of $100-115k (I am guessing), it is going to take a lot of years to payoff the on the $200-300k+ of medical school tuition which will grow in the minimum of 7 years of training (MD+residency). Those student loans are paid off after-tax so it take a lot of money to do the pay down. If you work the same 55 hours as a pharmd at 2 jobs the earnings will look awful close to the $160k. I don't know many pharmacists putting in those kind of hours, though I am sure they are out there. If you add 3 years or more of sub-specialty training, your loans grow as will pressures on clinical costs coming into play with possible reductions in the sub-specialty salaries which may be flat in the years to come (maybe/maybe not).

Now compare yourself with your pharmD colleague who goes off to work. Basic econ for you: (100k income lost for 4 years--realistically $70k after tax)--you finish medical school 300-400k in the hole on the lifetime income. Add the 250k in loans (realistically 400k+ in pretax income)--you are now $600-700k under water. Add 3-6 years of residency where you make less than 1/2 of a pharmd, Add another $200k under water on income plus 50k+ interest accruing. You now start your job as a doc putting in 55 hours a week taking call every 5th night making $180k. You now are putting +$60k in salary per year vs the PharmD which at this salary level will get you 35-40k after tax. With interest rates at 6% on your now $300k in loans, it costs $18k in interest per year so at least you can make your payments, but in the 10-20 years it will take to make these payment you are living the same as your pharmd colleague--this assumes you don't have undergrad or pharmD debt. If that grew during medical school as well for 7 years + , you may have less disposable income at the end of day than your pharmd colleague. Also good luck buying a house and paying moving expenses to and from medical school. Life as a renter for 7+ years kind of sucks versus your pharmD colleague who bought a house after finishing pharmD school and has $50-100k in home equity by the time you finish residency and start your job.

You cant work a lot of pharmacy hours in medical school--at least if you want to get the good grades and test scores to get into the best residencies. I tried to get hours and found I wanted to just relax a bit after hours of studying though the money certainly sounded appealing. If you quit your job in pharmacy, the tail malpractice will not be a killer. I had a hospitalist colleague who left his practice for another and had to write out a $45,000 check to purchase malpractice tail coverage to quit his job as a doc. Last I checked pharmacy malpractice costs in the hundreds of dollars a year vs the thousands, tens of thousands or $100k per year (OB, Neurosurgery)

On the flip side, medical school is a fascinating journey where you have a chance to know and be recognized by patients in ways you can never be seen as a pharmacist. Your ability to understand the entire clinical experience from diagnostics through therapeutics is very intriguing. The buck gets to stop with you, which is a mixed bag, but at least you don't have to clear things with someone else. I put in some time in pharma research as well before medical school and every interesting pharmacy job I liked seemed to report to a physician. If I were getting a PharmD today and was thinking about medical school, I would only do it if I were absolutely certain it was what I wanted to do in life since the economics of it may leave something to be desired. I would also only do it if someone else were paying or subsidizing the cost. Three routes which may make the econ very favorable include 1) (MD/PhD program)--takes more years though and brutally competitive to get into them. 2) the primary care scholarship routes--here you have to put in time in an underserved area in primary care but at least they pay off your loans and sometimes pay your tuition if you get in when you start medical school. This is a great route since primary care areas really maximize the use of your pharmacy training and you would be competitive with a pharmD and 3) military service--downside is you might end up in Afghanistan when your done for a couple of years .

 

[BeLikeBueller]

This has been stated in bits and pieces before, but be sure to understand that you are giving up ~10% of your life (and arguably the best part of your life), plus you may be delaying some major life events such as marriage, buying a house, and having kids (I'm working under the assumption that you have not done any of these things). Obviously there are folks who do these things during medical school and residency, but you're not going to be able to enjoy those parts of your life nearly to the degree that everyone else is. In addition, you'll probably be one of those grandparent-aged fathers (or mothers) taking their children on college tours - you've seen them before - that's just an odd family dynamic to me. You are losing time with your current family and friends and you are short-changing yourself on time with your future family - not only in time lost to medical school, but also due to the 55+ hours a week that you'll be working. These are some of the things that are driving me, personally, towards (most likely) continuing forward with pharmacy - and I'm younger than you. Being 28 when you graduate makes these things much more of a reality for you than for me.

But perhaps those things aren't as high on your priority list, or perhaps you know beyond the shadow of a doubt that it is your calling in life to be a physician and you believe that it will bring you joy and fulfillment... If that's the case, then by all means go for it. But you better make sure it is your calling, because the money isn't there anymore, the respect isn't there anymore, and the job satisfaction isn't there anymore. It is a noble calling for sure, but if you do it for the wrong reasons, you'll be living with that for 55 hours a week for a long time to come.

Take this with a grain of salt, but I saw this interesting (albeit somewhat tongue-in-cheek) blog post about reasons that medicine might not be the best career right now, and I found this particular part to be very eye-opening (assuming it is true):

Update 5: I recently had the opportunity to speak to the daughter of the lady who was the dean of of my med school. She told me that her mom specifically forbid her from going into medicine. Did you get that? THE DEAN OF MY MED SCHOOL FORBID HER DAUGHTER FROM GOING TO MED SCHOOL.

(You can read the whole thing here)

You know what they say..."the grass is always greener on the other side."

 

[kendrick lamar]

Iono, I think there's a lot of things and circumstances besides doing more school where you don't get to enjoy your life to the degree "everybody else" does lol. I went to college with everybody telling me it will be the best years of my life and true, while I had some good times, plenty of opportunities for free time, it was still rough (not even taking academics into account here). Some of my classmates and peers may attest similarly, many differently. What I'm just trying to say is that everything will be different for everybody, your priorities will be based on your circumstances that are variable amongst people. Sometimes I do think about the fact that considering med school may delay a lot of life events, but I don't have good friends nor a serious outlook on marriage yet. Maybe if I did, it may have influenced my decision enough that med school would be out of the question for me.

If you are going to consider it, you probably should start doing your homework now. I think rotations are a great time to be realistic on your goals; you get to see different settings of pharmacy and can get a better idea of your decisions. Rotations are helping me figuring out what are my most likely interests and least likely interests. Also a great thing about rotations is the fact that sometimes you'll have guest speakers or sessions where people will tell you about opportunities, not always pharmacy specific, but definitely a place where students can get involved in. Try to think out of the box and know what opportunities are available to you. Definitely use the time to network, both with pharmacy and non-pharmacy people. And most importantly, don't jump the gun. Like I said, everybody has individual circumstances that will need to be considered before making the decision. It is going to be a lot of schooling, so a lot of thought process needs to be involved in terms of financial, lifestyle balance, etc. Get experience, imo, experience is the most important and realistic way to figure out what you might like.

 

[spacecowgirl]

Core measures, incentive goals, third-party reimbursement, HCAPS. Just a few things off the top of my head that limit "authority".