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I'm considering looking into being a Director of Pharmacy

Discussion in 'Pharmacy' started by crazybob, Sep 25, 2009.

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  1. crazybob

    crazybob

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    I'm still thinking about whether or not I want to be a director of pharmacy for a hospital or a pharmacy manager for any kind of pharmacy at some point. I've talked to a co-director of clinical pharmacy, and it seems like she usually takes students as a preceptor to teach them on rotations and residencies. The other co-director does more of administrative and finances role and works with human resources. Both are a little bit of something I would like to do later on, but I was wondering how much experience I would have to gain first as a pharmacist before doing something like that.

    Is it usually worth it to go into these kinds of upper-level positions? The two co-directors I've talked to say they enjoy their jobs very much, but I know it might not be for everyone.
  2. J DUB

    J DUB Watch my TAN walk!! Lifetime Donor

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    All I can say is there seemed to be too much responsibility for the little bump in pay. Now, this is not at a large hospital.

    Get a MBA or MHA and then you will have some more to show.
  3. jyw003

    jyw003 Learning to be a Farmer

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    hmmm...you are only P1 and you're thinking about this already! haha...i would wait it out until p3/p4 when you get a better idea being a pharmacist in a hospital or retail setting.
  4. crazybob

    crazybob

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    lol i know. but we have a pharmacy practice 1 class (called Career Orientation and Communications) and we have had talks and discussions where the dean and assistant dean invite 10-20 pharmacists (from different backgrounds) for 5 weeks to talk to us about what they do. so i've gotten to hear them talk about residencies, independent pharmacy, and clinical pharmacy in a hospital setting.

    do most pharmacy students change their minds significantly by their P3 and P4 years? the co-director today told us about keeping an open mind because we'll see many different areas in pharmacy we can go into to practice.
  5. p-rog

    p-rog Junior Member

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    Dude, I'm a P3 and I've changed my mind about what I want to do with my career approximately 1234565789382783492 times since I started pharmacy school. Of course, there are those people who just KNOW they love retail (or hospital or whatever) and never even doubt their choice once while they're in school. Honestly, most of those people are just being closed minded though. If you're willing to consider putting in the extra work to get the right training, a PharmD degree can lead people down quite a few different career paths.
  6. inquirer89

    inquirer89

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    I was at a pharmacy conference and a speaker said that about 80% of managers and directors are expected to retire within the next decade. Not sure of where his sources were from, but that's something to think about.
  7. pearljam5a1

    pearljam5a1 I'm still alive

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    I would also recommend you look into the dual PharmD/MBA degree if your school offers it. Being a director is very much about the $$ (as in keeping track of it for your department and staying within budget) so just take that into consideration. You are responsible for the policies and procedures that are developed and there is a lot of accountability and responsibility. Meetings, meetings, meetings with nurse managers, department heads, administration, etc.

    Some people love the administrative aspect and that's great because it is necessary. I prefer the "getting my hands dirty with D5W" approach and avoid administration. You may be interested in an "admin-lite" position like Drug Information. Deciding the formulary for your hospital and whether or not different therapies have a big enough benefit to health outcomes compared to the cost of acquisition/administration.
  8. ffpickle

    ffpickle Thread Killer

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    I'm considering perhaps looking into maybe becoming the CEO of Pfizer...is it, I dunno, like, good?

    Cuz if it is, I'll do it.
  9. Zrchrn

    Zrchrn PharmD Student C/0 2013

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    There is no money in it, so I don't think you would like it.
  10. StaviZFingerZ

    StaviZFingerZ Retired

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  11. ngmc11

    ngmc11

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    ASHP survey by Sarah White says how there's going to be a shortage of leaders
  12. gsinccom

    gsinccom

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    any luck finding those sources?
  13. inquirer89

    inquirer89

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    Yeah I'm still not sure, but the speaker represented the ASHSP if that helps.
  14. VancTheTank

    VancTheTank .

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  15. StaviZFingerZ

    StaviZFingerZ Retired

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    You want the truth? Hope you can handle it.

    Being a DOP is a babysitting job. You have to babysit grown adults who are unhappy. Female staff are usually responsible for stirring up trouble and fights. Male staff are usually lazy and prone to mistakes unless they're weasly and woman like in their behavior, they act like a woman and cause trouble.

    Now I got that out of the way, pharmacy department controlled by male pharmacist with majority male staff runs smooth. Pharmacy department controlled by female yet majority male staff runs smooth. Pharmacy department run by male or female yet majority femal staff runs dysfunctional and chaotic. Of course there are exceptions which being small departments with less than 5 people usually runs smooth.

    It's the bickering within the department that will make director's hair fall out or turn gray..I have some to prove it. And it happened when my departmet had 35 females and 4 males. Don't do it. My department with majority male pharmacists ran smooth...except lazy male pharmacist syndrome lingered.

    Dealing with other departments. Female directors are typically more difficult to work with because they typically try to out do you either you're a man or woman. Male directors are easier going and more cooperative.

    Dealing with your boss. Male boss will leave you alone and not micromanage you as long as you meet his expectations. Female boss rule with emotion and illogically while being a micromanager. Then again, being micromanaged is not always a bad thing and it really depends on how you operate.

    I understand I am totally politically incorrect but at least I didn't bring up racial stereotype into this discussion.

    Of course there are exception to the rule and your experiences may vary. I just typed away my experience and having observed over 100 different hospital pharmacy operations in the past 18 years.

    Truly..being a DOP is a thankless job. I've done it and I don't miss it. Yet, I will close out my career at a small hospital as a DOP managing 5 to 10 people.. or consult part time.

    :smuggrin:
  16. StaviZFingerZ

    StaviZFingerZ Retired

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    In fact, for those of you working inpatient, I would like to read your experiences on gender effect of your pharmacy.
  17. WVUPharm2007

    WVUPharm2007 "I hear the WMD is the bomb."

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    I try to avoid all of that crap. Interestingly, I've had more than one technician tell me I'm the only pharmacist they feel like they can come to with a problem...heh.

    But, since you asked...and as far as I can tell...

    We have an almost equal split of pharmacists during the day. 3 men, 4 women, female clinical director, male director. 2 nighties are female. It runs kinda smooth, but two of them are known around the department as trouble. One female pharmacist and one male pharmacist are known to go looking for other peoples' mistakes, take screen shots, and give them to the director. (I got called into the office one time for *gasp* accidentally putting in two omeprazole orders.) They did it to me a few times, but everyone told me that it's not just me, they do it to anyone that isn't them. So I didn't take it personal. I just know I can't trust them. And I avoid them as much as I can. Hence, I like to work evenings. Interesting note, they also tell me that the male wasn't bad until the female came along and is kinda the leader of the two...

    ...kinda a weird situation...

    I just try to go to work, do my job, avoid the bull**** gossip, do best for the patients, and go home...
  18. VancTheTank

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  19. VancTheTank

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  20. StaviZFingerZ

    StaviZFingerZ Retired

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    We'll concentrate on what's bad about inpatient pharmacy and being a DOP....I'll come back later and tell y'all why it's great. It's gotta be Yin & Yang.
  21. VancTheTank

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  22. Aznfarmerboi

    Aznfarmerboi Senior Member

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    SO TRUE!!!!! OMG, that should definitely be taught in economics/management in pharmacy school and MBA school.
  23. SHC1984

    SHC1984 Removed

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    +1

    I have only worked as a tech and male pharmacists are so much more chilled and relaxed than female pharmacists. The Male pharmacists I have worked with will let me slack off and bend the rules a bit, but the female pharmacists never will. They are all so uptight. But yeah overall working with a male pharmacist is better b/c they are more willing to let you do whatever you want. :laugh:
  24. type b pharmD

    type b pharmD

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    I have worked with some extroardinarily awesome female DOPs. One of which was the most respected person in the entire hospital, because of her focus on building positive interactions between people and members of our team.

    based on my experience, the women directors ive met were more well liked than the male directors, because they took into account interpersonal factors in running their team and interacting with staff.
  25. StaviZFingerZ

    StaviZFingerZ Retired

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    its not about which gender makes a better dop.
  26. Jetninjin

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    @ Stavi

    "You want the truth? Hope you can handle it."

    Lol your post is pretty much true for any industry. My old corporate industry for example was about as different from pharmacy as can be, however I could have written your post with respect to that industry too. It's just part and parcel of being a manager, whatever the industry.
  27. SpirivaSunrise

    SpirivaSunrise Go Gators! Lifetime Donor

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    Fiiiiiiine, single me out from the discussion.

    I actually have an interesting dynamic between my group of pharmacists....
  28. StaviZFingerZ

    StaviZFingerZ Retired

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    glorified retail pseudo drug rep need not reply.

    thank you.



  29. StaviZFingerZ

    StaviZFingerZ Retired

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    im ready for ERA women's rights advocates to start slinging mud at me.


  30. SpirivaSunrise

    SpirivaSunrise Go Gators! Lifetime Donor

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    :smuggrin:


    Okiedokes...I'll spare you from the description of 5 hombres + 1 chica headed by 2 chicas. :p
  31. StaviZFingerZ

    StaviZFingerZ Retired

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    ok I will let you speak just this once. make it short.



  32. StaviZFingerZ

    StaviZFingerZ Retired

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    btw being a dop isn't about being liked or popular. its nice to be liked of course. but the job isn't about pleasing everyone.


  33. WVUPharm2007

    WVUPharm2007 "I hear the WMD is the bomb."

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    I plan on ruling via a stoic indifference and brutal honesty. Its hard to describe, but as a hilljack raised around the art of flim-flaming, trust me, it works against you stupid ass rich kids.
  34. DrugRX

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    My DOP is female and we have about 25 Rx staff. I am the only male pharmacist except one in employee pharmacy and we have one male tech. This is the only hospital that I have worked, so I don't have any other experience to compare against. However, we have all kinds of issues constantly, and I do wish that we have more male pharmacists and techs.
  35. SpirivaSunrise

    SpirivaSunrise Go Gators! Lifetime Donor

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    ehhh, well it ain't going to be short! But in all honesty, a nuke pharmacy runs very similarly to "outsourced" inpatient. Instead of running the meds up the floor however, you're driving them 5, 10, 100 miles away.

    Our pharmacist staff is actually the most cohesive group in the pharmacy. Currently have 8 RPh's, with an opening for 1. So, all of the staff pharmacists are guys, with the exception of one...lead by two women: myself (pharmacy supervisor), and the pharmacy manager.

    So probably not a surprise to you, we are a tight group...and the dynamic works very well. The pharmacists report directly to myself, and the technician/driver supervisor report to the manager.

    The male pharmacists range from "laid-back/nothing phases me" to young and cocky. I spend a big portion of the day doing managerial stuff, but try to get as involved in the operation as I can. I feel like I can keep a pulse on how we're doing when I delve in to the day-to-day stuff. That way, I can step back and figure out how we can do things more efficiently and "better" for the customer/patient.

    What I do find however, is that the lazy male syndrome kicks in and they back-off when I do this, seeing it as an opportunity to take advantage of the fact that I'm pitching in.

    Like, I said though...our pharmacist team is the strongest one in the building, bar none. The technician group is currently very week, and as a result, most of the duties fall on the pharmacist shoulders. I've pushed hard for a stronger tech pool, and that's why we're bringing in 3 new ones soon. Fought to get a $3/hour higher starting wage than we were currently at so that I could pull from the hospital-trained IV technicians, and succeeded...so we will be bringing in some solid help soon.

    Drivers are another mess, and I'm constantly battling the petty day-shift vs. night-shift animosity, which I'm sure you all face in inpatient as well. But just like Z said...management is all about babysitting grown adults. I must get a thousand petty complaints a week from grown men and women...and sometimes you just want to smack them over the head, or show them the door if they're that miserable. You ask them if they can think of a solution to the issue, and they look at you dumbfounded, then continue to complain. But you still dig down to find the motivation to fix the problems and give them what they need to be succesful at their job.

    And you're right, being DOP isn't about being liked. They do have to trust you and respect you though. I have an interesting professional relationship with a lot of the staff, because most of them taught me the day-to-day operational stuff. And now, I'm in a management role...where they're looking to me for leadership and guidance. So sure, I can't always be the most popular person in the room...but I always have a smile on my face, and the entire staff (and we're a large group at 60+) knows they can come to me to get that help.
  36. spacecowgirl

    spacecowgirl brr

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    I always tell my boss he is in no danger from me trying to take over his job. No. Thanks.

    Kudos to those of you who want to go this route, not for me though, thankyouverymuch.

    Reason #45809247 I love my boss - he does all the crap I don't want to do.
  37. WVUPharm2007

    WVUPharm2007 "I hear the WMD is the bomb."

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    Sorry Spi, but I can't handle the idea of my boss being 27. F that...you need to be at least 35 or actually be me to get my trust as a leader. I'd be out the door if they hired someone 2 years out to be the director...

    No offense intended or anything...just a state of Mike's universe sort of thing.
  38. crazybob

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    So, if I work well with female pharmacy staff, I could be a good pharmacy manager and the staff would enjoy working with me? I guess I should start work with female pharmacists and technicians. I know one pharmacist in my hometown and she sure is pretty :laugh: so it won't be hard for me to try to work with her :) She looks really young, but I think she might be married though.
  39. StaviZFingerZ

    StaviZFingerZ Retired

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    someone like you would be an HR nightmare. you better see your employees as pharmacists not attractive.



  40. StaviZFingerZ

    StaviZFingerZ Retired

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    too long...I lost you at 100 miles away...


  41. crazybob

    crazybob

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    i was kidding in part in my post. just trying to find something to laugh about. but i get what you're saying though.

    but seriously this time, how many years of experience as a pharmacist should i probably have before taking on a position as a manager or director? just long enough to feel comfortable about moving up to being a manager or director or until i have certain experiences with being in charge and feel that i'm ready?
  42. StaviZFingerZ

    StaviZFingerZ Retired

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    minimum 5 years of experience or until you learn everything there is to know about hospital pharmacy operation. and none of this stuff is taught in school. there are admin fellowships. I highly recommend it if you want to fast track into it.
  43. SpirivaSunrise

    SpirivaSunrise Go Gators! Lifetime Donor

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    Then you didn't even try....

    Posted via Mobile BlackBerry Device
  44. SpirivaSunrise

    SpirivaSunrise Go Gators! Lifetime Donor

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    Nope, no offense taken.

    I take my queue from my coworkers, who pushed me to do it. Couple who have been doing this 25+ yrs.

    Something doesn't magically happen from 34 to 35 that makes you ready to do this kind of job.

    Posted via Mobile BlackBerry Device
  45. WVUPharm2007

    WVUPharm2007 "I hear the WMD is the bomb."

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    That's the first clue. A job none of them wanted...

    I'd prolly fail after the 1st phase. Me and corporate bull**** don't mix. Oh well, not a talent I have...and I imagine its useful.

    Nah, it's that whole 25 to 35 thing. I was ready to be the leader the day I left school...I hate being told what to do...and not having a say in the direction things are going...just who I am...but I have to realize that I'm not ready yet...like ol' Z says...and it's very frustrating to come to grips with...being subservient for a few more years AT LEAST...people that want to be the alpha are born that way...unfortunately, experience is something you aren't born with...

    Stupid ass reality...
  46. SpirivaSunrise

    SpirivaSunrise Go Gators! Lifetime Donor

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    Who said some of them didn't apply for the position as well? As well as outside candidates?

    I never claimed to be a DOP...I'm just the 2nd man helping in the way the operation needs me the most. And I'm gaining invaluable experience every day.

    You can't go through the interview process? Well, you've got to learn!!!

    Posted via Mobile BlackBerry Device
  47. WVUPharm2007

    WVUPharm2007 "I hear the WMD is the bomb."

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    Giant corporation you work for...no...small hospital....sure...
  48. SpirivaSunrise

    SpirivaSunrise Go Gators! Lifetime Donor

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    These were all people within the same division...no different than hospital.

    You do realize, giant corporations are made up of lots of small companies.

    Posted via Mobile BlackBerry Device
  49. WVUPharm2007

    WVUPharm2007 "I hear the WMD is the bomb."

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    Yeah, but there is that who corporate sterility behind it...I just can't mesh well with it...or maybe I can, hell...we'll find out...

    I do envy where you get to live though...one of the coolest, underrated towns there is...I'm getting sick of Morgantown...it's been great, but I want to move on...

    You know, my wife is interested in nuclear...she told me it was the only rotation where she could see herself doing that type of work for a living...small little operation...Pharmalogic in WV...the hours were a big thing for her...she liked the late night/early AM work...the "lab" setting...maybe you'll run into her some day...
  50. wes011

    wes011 SUCOP Class of 2013

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    :laugh:

    That's classic.

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