importance of undergrad AFTER vet school

Veterinary Science Graduate Certificate from UofI
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cnb23

cnb23

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Hey guys
At my undergrad university there is a 3+1 program to where you can apply to our vet school after your 3rd year and if you get in, you can get a bs after your first year in vet school if you've completed some certain courses during undergrad.

I'm going into my 3rd year next fall and applying this cycle. While I would like something to show for my work, it would be difficult to fit in all the courses. Does anyone know how important an undergrad degree is AFTER completing a DVM program and looking for jobs?

This is assuming a lot (like I even get in :rolleyes:) but it's something I need to begin planning for I guess

Thanks!
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I don't think it's important at all unless you want to do something other than DVM work. I suppose something impressive could be... well, impressive. But that's about all.
 
after you get your DVM? not important (basing this off of friends who have done other professional degrees when not technically getting a b.s. before hand)

maybe i'm just too sleepy to understand this right, but you say you can get a bs after your first year of vet school. So why would you need to finish your b.s. after the full DVM degree? Are you saying that you can't fit in all of the courses needed to go this route in your last year?

If so, my biggest concern for you would be how applicable you would be for an acceptance into vet school. My friend who went to dental school after 3 yrs of undergrad was taking extra credits each semester to make sure he was at the "standards" they wanted him to be at when applying. I'm not sure what vet school you're talking about, but you may want to look into how much they look at the classes you have taken in undergrad and the number of credits they would like you to have. If you think you don't have time to take enough credits in the 3 yrs to later be applicable for a b.s. your first year of vet school they may not think you are ready for the "heavy course load and hard curriculum" of vet school
 
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I don't think you're understanding this correctly OP. You don't finish your undergrad after you finish vet school, you finish your undergrad while IN vet school. Your first year of vet school counts as your senior year of undergrad. So you're doing both simultaneously with just the one set of classes for vet school.
 
Most of the time, the only reason I hear of that people would want their B.S. degree is just in case something happens and they can't get their D.V.M. This is obviously a worst case scenario and something you would never want to actually happen, but things do happen and it is nice to have a degree to fall back on instead of just some undergraduate coursework with no degree.
 
I have NO idea where any of the vets I have worked with or been a client of went for undergrad. I do know where they went to vet school, tho!

Don't worry about it. If you can get in early - GREAT!

I also second what Hopeful said. You will still get a bachelor's degree most likely. It will be a B.S. in Veterinary Science or something like that...
 
elefante7 said:
Most of the time, the only reason I hear of that people would want their B.S. degree is just in case something happens and they can't get their D.V.M. This is obviously a worst case scenario and something you would never want to actually happen, but things do happen and it is nice to have a degree to fall back on instead of just some undergraduate coursework with no degree.
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This was my thought as well. Vet school is hard and sometimes things happen that's beyond our control, there is no guarantee that everyone starting vet school will finish and that's where having an undergrad degree comes in handy.

And I agree with the person two posts above me, I don't know your program but I doubt they expect you to take undergrad courses at the same time you're taking vet med courses - that would be impossible - there is barely enough time for the vet med classes you have to take. I think the policy us more likely that upon successful completion of your first year in vet school you will be awarded your undergrad degree. No need to take extra classes.

I'd be really surprised otherwise,
 
My in state vet school is kinda like that. If you have all the pre-reqs (which you can get by your third year) then you can apply and if you get accepted then you do not finish your degree. You just have your DVM after vet school and no bachelors.

But here is the thing about a lot of people who enter vet school without a degree (told to me by teachers and by students at the vet school).

The people who get in earlier seem always behind the rest of the class. They have trouble adjusting and their GPA is lower.

And also the thing that really scared me is that the majority of people statistically that fail out of vet school are people that got in after 3 years of undergrad.

That does not mean that people who only go three years at undergrad will fail out, it just means that most of them have a harder time. It is do-able but it is just harder for them for one reason or another. Maybe because they are less mature or maybe because senior year is kind of a break from taking extremely hard classes and you go in more relaxed. Whatever the reason, it is just one more year of school in undergrad and I would rather do that one year and be more prepared for vet school then go in my junior year.

One positive though if you apply your junior year- if you don't get in you can do a file review and work on your weak points for a whole year before applying again. It shows them that you are not giving up and that you will keep applying with a stronger application until you get in. Also you will be more comfortable with the application system. It won't be so scary your second time around.
 
Are you sure you would be graduating without a Bachelor's?

I just finished my 3rd year of undergrad and applied to OVC this year. If I get into OVC, I won't be completing my 4th year of my degree but since I'm in an Honours program, it just means that I'll be graduating with a BHSc rather than a BHSc (Honours).
 
I read this somewhere, but forget where...You can get into vet school without a bachelors, but you can't graduate and get a DVM without one. So if you do get in before finishing undergrad, sometime during vet school the school will award you a bachelors degree.
 
laitmanvet said:
I read this somewhere, but forget where...You can get into vet school without a bachelors, but you can't graduate and get a DVM without one. So if you do get in before finishing undergrad, sometime during vet school the school will award you a bachelors degree.
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The vet I work for had only a DVM. No bachelors, she got in after her 3rd year and she never received one.
 
I definitely know vets w/o bachelors.

VT has a 3+1 program for bio where you complete all of the bio requirements and liberal arts requirements and transfer back vet school classes that count as bio electives. I don't think it's very popular and most people seem to just finish the degree in 3 years, but it's a program where you aren't taking additional coursework.

I personally just finished both of my Bachelors degrees (I told my parents why get 1 in 4 years when you can get 2? haha) and am very pleased to have them. There's just something extra to saying you've completed school like that. But I definitely know vets who went to school as soon as their pre-reqs were done, so it's up to you and what you're capable of. good luck!
 
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LetItSnow said:
Source?
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Dean of admissions at my in state school told me this. This may not be the case for other schools but at this particular school it is.

He also said that for the upcoming cycle they were going to reject more juniors because of this reason. They would have to be pretty special to get in after 3 years if they were going to be accepted.
 
cnb23 said:
Hey guys
At my undergrad university there is a 3+1 program to where you can apply to our vet school after your 3rd year and if you get in, you can get a bs after your first year in vet school if you've completed some certain courses during undergrad.

I'm going into my 3rd year next fall and applying this cycle. While I would like something to show for my work, it would be difficult to fit in all the courses. Does anyone know how important an undergrad degree is AFTER completing a DVM program and looking for jobs?
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A friend of mine did something similar, where he was accepted to vet school but still had to finish courses for his BS. While they said they'd work something out, they didn't and he ended up going to vet school with no undergrad degree. (Note: it wasn't like he went to an undergrad school that also had a vet school, so YMMV)

Honestly, you don't need the degree if you get your DVM unless you're planning to do something else (like med school, for example). Considerations for getting your degree include flexibility outside of vet med and a fallback if you have to drop out or something. My friend, though, was really bummed about not getting the degree since he'd paid so much money and worked so hard. I think I'd feel similarly but in the end, the DVM would trump the BS for most people.
 
that redhead said:
. I think I'd feel similarly but in the end, the DVM would trump the BS for most people.
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Haha I keep telling all of my friends who graduated with me that I'm jealous that their bachelors gets them where they want to go now. 4 more years of school is just taunting me haha (on the other hand, if i'd gone straight into a vet program from HS-if it were possible-i'd have definitely failed out or would be way under prepared at this point in my life!)
 
The dates of your degrees will really confuse people if you do the accelerated program! My friend is doing one for medical school, so she attended 2 years of undergrad and then the first 2 years of med school will also count as finishing undergrad this means... BS 2012, MD 2014.

So... She looks like a genius child who finished med school in 2 years!
 
I was acccepted after 3 years and do not have an undergrad degree. I highly recommend doing this as it will save you money in the long run (1 less year of undergrad tuition!). There were 15 out of 123 students total that were acccepted early (5 were accepted after 2 yrs) and we all did very well. I was not able to get a BS in vet school as I needed 6 hours of history and 6 hours of political science. I did not have a problem at all in vet school-I find that I had an easier time than most of the older/non traditional students as I was use to studying and I was in the "school" mindset. BTW, my undergrad degree would have been useless anyways.
 
I guess I'll present an unpopular point of view to answer the question, "What is the importance of undergrad after vet school?" Hopefully, rather than just plugging and chugging and doing what is required for a grade, you will have learned something or perhaps broadened your horizons. You will be a more well-rounded person. Sure, art history has very little to do with veterinary medicine, but it's kinda cool to have the knowledge, and you may even clean up on Jeopardy! Knowing about history helps you better understand trends that happen in society today. English composition comes in handy when trying to compose a coherent sentence, or correctly use they're/their and your/you're, and hopefully reinforces the truth that "irregardless" is not a word. Plus, I think the time spent in undergrad gives students the time to mature so that they are prepared for professional school and can better deal with the different segments of society that might present themselves in a clinical setting.

Just my 2 cents.
 
Are you at LSU? There were about roughly 20-30 or so of us in my class of 86 (including me) that had degrees coming into vet school this past year. Some students were doing the 3 + 1 program and were going to get their degree after this year, but not that many and most students just only had pre-reqs. It's not really important at all, in terms of vet school. I know many vets who do not have an undergrad degree. If your plan is solely to go to vet school, an undergrad degree is not necessary at all. A lot of people I have realized seem to want the degree as a fall back option for if vet school doesn't pan out, but if you're like me, there was no other option other than vet school, and I was going to apply as many times as it took until I got in.
 
CarpeDiem89 said:
My in state vet school is kinda like that. If you have all the pre-reqs (which you can get by your third year) then you can apply and if you get accepted then you do not finish your degree. You just have your DVM after vet school and no bachelors.

But here is the thing about a lot of people who enter vet school without a degree (told to me by teachers and by students at the vet school).

The people who get in earlier seem always behind the rest of the class. They have trouble adjusting and their GPA is lower.

And also the thing that really scared me is that the majority of people statistically that fail out of vet school are people that got in after 3 years of undergrad.

That does not mean that people who only go three years at undergrad will fail out, it just means that most of them have a harder time. It is do-able but it is just harder for them for one reason or another. Maybe because they are less mature or maybe because senior year is kind of a break from taking extremely hard classes and you go in more relaxed. Whatever the reason, it is just one more year of school in undergrad and I would rather do that one year and be more prepared for vet school then go in my junior year.

One positive though if you apply your junior year- if you don't get in you can do a file review and work on your weak points for a whole year before applying again. It shows them that you are not giving up and that you will keep applying with a stronger application until you get in. Also you will be more comfortable with the application system. It won't be so scary your second time around.
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I'm sure the dean of whatever vet school knows his admissions stats etc, but honestly, I'm gonna say its probably a coincidence more than anything else...

Vet school is hard, but its not THAT hard. If you're smart enough to get in, and you're prepared to do the work, you're good enough to stay in. The majority of the people who have left my class (started with 92, down to 83) left for personal reasons (depression, persue other interests, family illness). Only 1 actually failed outright because they didnt try hard enough. The majority of people who fail out of vet school, or fail a class and have to repeat it, are people who had enormous amounts of personal stuff happening at the time. Honestly, I don't know a single person who ever failed a class because they weren't smart enough, or didn't have enough background to the work. In my class we have american students who have done full degrees, and australian kids straight out of high school. There is no discernable difference in marks - class rankings are very mixed.

So I think if you want to apply after 3 years of undergrad, go for it. If you're going to fail out of vet school, chances are its going to be for something you have COMPLETELY no control over. And as long as you prepare, eat well, exercise, continue to see friends and can keep a grasp on the bigger picture, you should all make it through relatively unscathed. Bachelors or not.
 
Also, OP, if you are ever considering doing a residency, many academic programs include an MS (or a PhD, if you choose pathology), and I would think it would be difficult to be accepted into a graduate program without a BS.

Just something to keep in mind.
 
sunshinevet said:
I'm sure the dean of whatever vet school knows his admissions stats etc, but honestly, I'm gonna say its probably a coincidence more than anything else...
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It may have been just a coincidence but if thats the case I do not know why he mentioned it to me because its one reason I did not want to apply for after my third year.

I do not know a place where there is printed stats on this topic. But the stats do say that in the majority of schools most students have a bachelors. If it was not that important don't you think the percent of students without a bachelors would be higher? If there really is no advantage to getting one then why do most people have one? You would think that the majority of students would want to skip out a year of undergrad to alleviate some debt if that last year is worthless, but this is just not the case. There obviously is an advantage to having a degree.

Some vet schools make it hard to go only three years in undergrad. Like the Illinois and Davis. I know those two require a lot of upper division courses plus everything else. You almost cant finish the pre-reqs without going four years.

I honestly think that going 4 years instead of 3 for a traditional student helps them to be more prepared for vet school.

And on the Australian topic- Kids in Australia do not just pop right into vet school correct? They still have to do the classes like chem, orgo, biochem, physics etc. And people who are accepted into the program out of high school have the top testing scores in the country. They are all super smart. I know that if I lived in Australia I would be rejected from the vet program because I would not be considered smart enough.

So you have super smart Australians mixed with Americans with degrees (who have probably taken more classes to prepare them). I would guess that the ratio for gpas etc would be mixed because they are all on the same level. I think thats how it works but feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
 
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sunshinevet said:
Vet school is hard, but its not THAT hard. If you're smart enough to get in, and you're prepared to do the work, you're good enough to stay in.
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That's relative... this has been the hardest, most trying year of my life and by far the most difficult things I've ever and probably will ever face. I have made it through the year, and things have definitely gotten easier to manage, but not without a lot of blood, sweat and tears and serious questioning of why I decided to go into this. But it is important to remember that you can do it, and they wouldn't have picked you if you weren't capable of handling the experience.
 
sunshinevet said:
The majority of the people who have left my class (started with 92, down to 83) left for personal reasons (depression, persue other interests, family illness). Only 1 actually failed outright because they didnt try hard enough.

If you're going to fail out of vet school, chances are its going to be for something you have COMPLETELY no control over.
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I think that people who are depressed in vet school are depressed because its super hard. Its overwhelming and they were not prepared for it or they could not adjust. I think most vet students get depressed from time to time but its nothing new to a student who has gone through the 4 years of college.
Taking upper division courses are an important part to prepare you for school.

People who decided to peruse other interests... now that was completely avoidable. The way our system is set up you need hundreds of hours of shadowing. Most people know what they are getting into and what the vet profession is about. Thats why vets advocate shadowing in several different areas as well.

With family illness- I know many schools will let you re-do that year if you have a good reason such as this. In many cases it should not deter you from not getting a DVM.

So all of these things you have some control over. And if its out of your control they will let you redo the year in many schools.

libster06 said:
That's relative... this has been the hardest, most trying year of my life and by far the most difficult things I've ever and probably will ever face. I have made it through the year, and things have definitely gotten easier to manage, but not without a lot of blood, sweat and tears and serious questioning of why I decided to go into this. But it is important to remember that you can do it, and they wouldn't have picked you if you weren't capable of handling the experience.
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Libster you described vet school perfectly. I admire you for sticking with it when times get hard. I hope to have that attitude when I enter vet school.
 
CarpeDiem89 said:
I think that people who are depressed in vet school are depressed because its super hard. Its overwhelming and they were not prepared for it or they could not adjust. I think most vet students get depressed from time to time but its nothing new to a student who has gone through the 4 years of college.
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You speak with true expertise!
 
CarpeDiem89 said:
I honestly think that going 4 years instead of 3 for a traditional student helps them to be more prepared for vet school.

And on the Australian topic- Kids in Australia do not just pop right into vet school correct? They still have to do the classes like chem, orgo, biochem, physics etc. And people who are accepted into the program out of high school have the top testing scores in the country. They are all super smart. I know that if I lived in Australia I would be rejected from the vet program because I would not be considered smart enough.

So you have super smart Australians mixed with Americans with degrees (who have probably taken more classes to prepare them). I would guess that the ratio for gpas etc would be mixed because they are all on the same level. I think thats how it works but feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
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Actually, we do pop straight out of highschool and in to vet school. I am one of those kids. We take a few extra classes in vet school (such as nutrition and micro, that i dont think all US vet schools do), but the biggest difference is that our high schooling standards are much higher than that in the US. Yeah, you do have to be "super smart" - but you also need to be "super smart" to make it into vet school in the US - the difference is that the kids that got in straight out of high school did the "hard yards" sooner. I am intelligent - but certainly not the smartest person I know - I just worked super, super hard in highschool to get into vet school. And I'm sure there are many americans just like me, smart, but not that smart, working their butts off in college to get into vet school in the US. I dont think its fair to say that the Australian students in my class are smarter than the US students - not at all!!! I just think its a good example of how much undergrad work you actually DONT nessercerrily need. Therefore I dont think that an extra year is going to make that much of a difference - especially since it saves a lot of people a lot of money.

libster06 said:
That's relative... this has been the hardest, most trying year of my life and by far the most difficult things I've ever and probably will ever face. I have made it through the year, and things have definitely gotten easier to manage, but not without a lot of blood, sweat and tears and serious questioning of why I decided to go into this. But it is important to remember that you can do it, and they wouldn't have picked you if you weren't capable of handling the experience.
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This is what I meant. I didn't mean for a second that vet school is not super hard. I mean, honestly, I am freaking out right now... I have never felt so stupid in my life and I once showed up drunk to my boyfriends house crying, because "I dont study enough and so I'm going to be a bad vet..." Clinical path is kicking my ass but at the same time sometimes you need a bit of perspective - you really wouldnt get in if you werent good enough to do it.

CarpeDiem89 said:
I think that people who are depressed in vet school are depressed because its super hard. Its overwhelming and they were not prepared for it or they could not adjust. I think most vet students get depressed from time to time but its nothing new to a student who has gone through the 4 years of college.
Taking upper division courses are an important part to prepare you for school.

People who decided to peruse other interests... now that was completely avoidable. The way our system is set up you need hundreds of hours of shadowing. Most people know what they are getting into and what the vet profession is about. Thats why vets advocate shadowing in several different areas as well.

With family illness- I know many schools will let you re-do that year if you have a good reason such as this. In many cases it should not deter you from not getting a DVM.

So all of these things you have some control over. And if its out of your control they will let you redo the year in many schools.
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Sorry, I should have clarified. The majority of people who have left my year are now in the year below me - only about 2 have left vet all together. And I think you would find its the same with US schools. There is a very, very low rate of ACTUAL drop out from all vet schools, and I feel this gives more weight to the arguement that its coincidence. People who struggle, for whatever reason, tend to come back and do it over again. People who leave all together, tend to have had something huge and life-changing happen to them.

Re: depression - I'm going to go out on a limb and say that almost every vet student will suffer some form or strength of depression at some point in their degree. I personally feel it matters not whether they have 3 years of college or 4. Not only that, but depression is a hugely multimodal disease which very rarely has one cause. People get homesick, relationships break down, there are financial difficulties, other normal life stuff PLUS you are dealing with a huge overwhelming degree - the best prevention for depression is a good support network, eating well, exercising regularly, and a firm grasp on the bigger picture. I wish more vet schools would do more to help their students with depression. And honestly, the workload is new to everyone.
 
sunshinevet said:
This is what I meant. I didn't mean for a second that vet school is not super hard. I mean, honestly, I am freaking out right now... I have never felt so stupid in my life and I once showed up drunk to my boyfriends house crying, because "I dont study enough and so I'm going to be a bad vet..." Clinical path is kicking my ass but at the same time sometimes you need a bit of perspective - you really wouldnt get in if you werent good enough to do it.
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I wrote on SDN somewhere back in the middle of the year how difficult it was for me and everyone pretty much made me feel like I was the only person having THIS much trouble with it... even some people in my class just seem to breeze through it. That was probably the worst feeling, to not feel like anyone else had the same difficulty and adjustment trouble as me. But they told us several times the bit about "picking us all individually after much consideration and if we couldn't do it we wouldn't be here" and that definitely helped me to press on. And the way I see it, it can only get easier.
 
sunshinevet said:
Actually, we do pop straight out of highschool and in to vet school. I am one of those kids. We take a few extra classes in vet school (such as nutrition and micro, that i dont think all US vet schools do), but the biggest difference is that our high schooling standards are much higher than that in the US. Yeah, you do have to be "super smart" - but you also need to be "super smart" to make it into vet school in the US - the difference is that the kids that got in straight out of high school did the "hard yards" sooner. I am intelligent - but certainly not the smartest person I know - I just worked super, super hard in highschool to get into vet school. And I'm sure there are many americans just like me, smart, but not that smart, working their butts off in college to get into vet school in the US. I dont think its fair to say that the Australian students in my class are smarter than the US students - not at all!!! I just think its a good example of how much undergrad work you actually DONT nessercerrily need. Therefore I dont think that an extra year is going to make that much of a difference - especially since it saves a lot of people a lot of money.
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You are right. The high school standards in Australia are very different. As you said your standards are higher. So maybe in Australia you do not need that extra year- because you get more prep in high school.

And believe me Americans are all about saving money. We do not get those interest free loans like you guys get over there. And like I said before, most people have bachelors. So if it was useless then why do the majority of people have them?

And you do not need to be "super smart" to get into vet school in the US. All you need to be is hard working and dedicated. I have struggled through high school and college. My testing scores are so below average it is not even funny. I would not even be considered for a program in Australia.

The educational programs in Australia and the United States are so different I feel like its kinda hard to compare them. You can't say that just because something works over with that system that it will work the exact same in a different system with the majority of students.
 
libster06 said:
I wrote on SDN somewhere back in the middle of the year how difficult it was for me and everyone pretty much made me feel like I was the only person having THIS much trouble with it... even some people in my class just seem to breeze through it. That was probably the worst feeling, to not feel like anyone else had the same difficulty and adjustment trouble as me. But they told us several times the bit about "picking us all individually after much consideration and if we couldn't do it we wouldn't be here" and that definitely helped me to press on. And the way I see it, it can only get easier.
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That sucks :( I have a fantastically supportive class, we're all really tight-knit and if you're having problems, there is always someone to talk to. This semester is the only one ive had a lot of trouble with - theres just one class im struggling to get my head around and we're fast coming to finals... :( But we have some fantastic lecturers - one (our pharmacology lecturer) regularly reminds us that we are a fantastic, talented bunch of people that he likes very much, and that passing this class is not as important as being happy, and our main unit learning objective is to (and im serious here) "maintain physical, emotional, and mental health". Fantastic guy, I wish more lecturers were like him!
 
CarpeDiem89 said:
And you do not need to be "super smart" to get into vet school in the US. All you need to be is hard working and dedicated.
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The same applies to vet school here, and everywhere. Its not like I took one standardised test and got in. Instead I worked my ***** off for the final 3 years in highschool to try and get competative marks.
 
sunshinevet said:
That sucks :( I have a fantastically supportive class, we're all really tight-knit and if you're having problems, there is always someone to talk to.
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Oh don't get me wrong my class is amazing and I wouldn't be where I am with my sanity in tact without them. I have made some of the best friends I could have ever wanted and we are all in it together. I definitely go to them for commiserating and we laugh and cry together.
 
sunshinevet said:
The same applies to vet school here, and everywhere. Its not like I took one standardised test and got in. Instead I worked my ***** off for the final 3 years in highschool to try and get competative marks.
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So you did better then me in high school that is all I am saying. Two different ways of getting into vet school. But also two different systems.

I did not get good marks in high school. I have never been able to raise my testing score even with tutoring. My marks in college are very average (and thats with me putting my whole effort into school). It is my experience that sets me apart from the competition not grades at all. I can honestly say I am one of those people who is not "super smart".

But in Australia you have to be top of your class correct? You have to have wonderful testing score?

This is what you said" Yeah, you do have to be "super smart" - but you also need to be "super smart" to make it into vet school in the US"

I have neither class rank or testing scores. I just would not get in if I lived in Australia but it is different in the US. I do not even know why you want to compare the two systems because they are so different.
 
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That was probably the worst feeling, to not feel like anyone else had the same difficulty and adjustment trouble as me. But they told us several times the bit about "picking us all individually after much consideration and if we couldn't do it we wouldn't be here" and that definitely helped me to press on. And the way I see it, it can only get easier.
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Well if it's any consolation I thought last semester was ridiculously hard. Had several moments where I was trying to think of what I'd do when I failed out. Thankfully, I don't need to do that. Yet. :p
Eventually just settled on the "we'll cross that bridge when we come to it" mentality and figured thinking about it now was just wasting time I could use to study.
 
OP: I know a few vets who do not have their bachelor's. They told me when I decided to go for it that they didn't feel like it held them back any after getting their DVM.

Also, talk to your advisor about if you have to go to that vet school to get your undergrad. I know my undergrad would let you get it (assuming you had the gen reqs for your BS done) no matter which vet school you attending. Although we didn't have a vet school (I went to Penn State for undergrad, and am in K-State now.)

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions about what it's like being in first year without a BS. Its the route I took and I'm glad I did. Good Luck!
 
If I didn't get a scholarship for undergrad and I knew I wanted to be a vet before starting it, I probably would have tried to finish all the prereqs in 3 years.

It's probably just a bit of arrogance on my part, but I do feel that completing some 400-level "hard science" (won't name names so as to not offend the "communications" and "american studies" majors. Oops!) courses does give you a taste of the @$$-kicking you'll experience your first year.
 
RadRadTerp said:
It's probably just a bit of arrogance on my part, but I do feel that completing some 400-level "hard science" (won't name names so as to not offend the "communications" and "american studies" majors. Oops!) courses does give you a taste of the @$$-kicking you'll experience your first year.
Click to expand...

Guilty (of being a soft major)!

This is interesting to me, because virtually every student I've talked to says that the material is not really all that difficult itself; it's the volume that makes it hard. It sounds to me like you're saying otherwise? Am I in trouble because I only took the pre-reqs that were required and didn't spend my time taking a bajillion advanced science classes? On the other hand, I didn't really think the pre-reqs were "hard"; it was more just a time puzzle to balance family, a full-time job, and classes.

(I didn't do a soft major to avoid science, though. I did it first and it wasn't until afterwards that I decided to go to vet school. So I blasted through the pre-reqs as fast as the school would let me.)
 
LetItSnow said:
Guilty (of being a soft major)!

This is interesting to me, because virtually every student I've talked to says that the material is not really all that difficult itself; it's the volume that makes it hard. It sounds to me like you're saying otherwise? Am I in trouble because I only took the pre-reqs that were required and didn't spend my time taking a bajillion advanced science classes? On the other hand, I didn't really think the pre-reqs were "hard"; it was more just a time puzzle to balance family, a full-time job, and classes.

(I didn't do a soft major to avoid science, though. I did it first and it wasn't until afterwards that I decided to go to vet school. So I blasted through the pre-reqs as fast as the school would let me.)
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To be fair, volume is the main issue. However, having come from a biochem/molecular bio background, I found Physio & Medical Biochem very straight forward whereas people who weren't fans of biochem in undergrad tended to find it more challenging. On the other hand, because I never had any large animal courses from animal science departments as an undergrad, an easy 1 credit class like Large Animal Husbandry in our first year was a cinch for Animal Science people, but I barely got a B in it first semester.
 
This is interesting to me, because virtually every student I've talked to says that the material is not really all that difficult itself; it's the volume that makes it hard.
Click to expand...
Volume is definitely the issue. Our third physiology test encompassed acid-base balance, our entire reproduction unit, epigenetics, and the cell cycle. None of that by itself is hard, but all of it put together was a bit of a beast, and any one of those units would have been a single test in undergrad. Our virology portion of microbiology was just stupid. We had to know the most insignificant ****, such as virus sizes and envelope shapes. Even our public health class had a ton of **** on it (and some of that was, in and of itself, ridiculous) and it's a 1 hour class.
 
From my experience the people who had the hardest time in vet school were the older/non traditional students. Several had marriages fall apart, some were already single parents starting over and some were starting families. As a 21 year old, yes vet school was challenging but fortunately that was the only thing I had to deal with. I am very happy that I got in early and have not needed an undergrad degree. If I ever do need one-I can go back and finish up.
BTW, Only one person in my class failed out and he ended up joining the class below me and did eventually graduate.

HopefulAg-who is teaching virology these days? Sounds like things haven't changed from when I took the class almost 15 years ago.
 
RadRadTerp said:
To be fair, volume is the main issue. However, having come from a biochem/molecular bio background, I found Physio & Medical Biochem very straight forward whereas people who weren't fans of biochem in undergrad tended to find it more challenging.
Click to expand...

Yep. To be honest, having the background that I have in the sciences has made life much easier for me first year. There's very little this year so far that I'm seeing for the very first time ever (some of the nutrition stuff, some of the more in depth physio, the ruminant physio/biochem, and half of the parasitology) so I haven't really had to drive myself insane with studying and I'm doing pretty well.

And I'm an older non-trad too. ;)
 
For me, it was certainly the volume that was a problem, and as a non-trad there were other stressors (living away from my husband, job lay offs, loss of my income, etc) but I don't think they were any worse than the 21 year olds in my class that had an SO pass away or that ended up battling cancer or even the ones that lost 2-5 year relationships.)

Some major challenges as a non-trad is the stuff I learned 10 years ago aren't necessarily accurate now. IE things have changed, names have changed, some things were disproved, etc. I have now learned to ask professors 'is that a relatively recent change?' to make the connections in my head (very true with names of microbes, etc.) Also, I'm now know that a lot of what I'm learning will be things that change by the time I practice and/or will be things I look up, which means I'm not nearly as motivated to commit them to memory as I was when I hadn't had a career and realized how much stuff I look up that I once 'knew.'

As for the OP, one reason to have your BA/BS is that it can be used against you in hiring decisions, particulary if you go for government or corporate jobs. Especially if there are other factors that might go against you (disability, accomodations, gender, race, ethnicity, etc.) IE someone that is doing the hiring can justify lack of a BA/BS as a reason to cover an alternative motive. Generally best not to leave the oppurtunity open if it is easy to close (then again, you might decide you'd never be willing to work in a system where that is a possibility.)
 
Thanks guys! I'm glad you understood what I was trying to ask, most of my advisors didn't. :oops:
I've decided to apply this year regardless of if I finish the pre-reqs to earn my b.s. if I'm accepted. If I'm in, I'm in for good. If I don't get in, I'll just finish my degree!
 
I'm getting in without a degree. I'm close to finishing, but not quite there (I need another semester). I'm using a couple odd courses from my DVM to finish my BSc. My undergrad was good about it once they figured out what I wanted to do. I'll graduate from my undergrad in May 2012 with my BSc in Biology, and with my DVM in 2015. I was so damn close to getting my BSc that for the sake of a bit of paperwork, I couldn't justify not getting it since it won't cost me anything.
 
I know this goes back a few posts, but I honestly think if vet schools had such a strong correlation between people who fail out and people who got it with one three years undergrad, they would have edited the system by now to prevent that from happening.

Also, if it comes down to it I know some schools (I only know about SC contract schools basically so this is by no means meant to imply that all do it--I don't know) will allow you to defer a year if you think it will be an issue in the future. Basically, you get in your junior year, take senior classes without the hassle of applications, take more classes, then matriculate the following year.
 
krrobin said:
I honestly think if vet schools had such a strong correlation between people who fail out and people who got it with one three years undergrad, they would have edited the system by now to prevent that from happening.
Click to expand...

Er, some schools have made that change and now require a Bachelors where they hadn't before (UC Davis comes to mind).
 
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