In light of all these finance threads poping up, what are YOUR plans to handle the debt?

[Maybe.a.dentist]

It seems like right now we are seeing more threads about the financial situations that we are all about to experience than I have noticed in years past. It sounds like a lot of people realize just how big a struggle this will be yet I don't see much actually being discussed as to how to handle this. Surely someone here has some business/financial background and can provide reasonable advice. So please, if you have plans share them here, we're all in this together. Personally, I'm strongly considering the military, I was doing the math and while I'm no accountant I figure my only state school with cost me over $400,000 which is scary to say the least. Don't be afraid to share the numbers, figures, and cost of your plans so we can help each other determine the likelihood of the success of your plans. I expect this thread to compare and contrast options such as the military, public service, associateships, and buying practices shortly/immediately after school.

Also, this isn't intended to be a thread to scare people away from dentistry, but rather to serve as a springboard of ideas to help out a community of likeminded individuals going through similar circumstances.

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[Domonu]

This isn't the traditional path, but I'm planning on going to my state school, specializing into oral path, and then working for a state school (hopefully my own) as a member of the faculty. By my estimation, I'll need about a $291,000 loan for tuition and living expenses for all four years of dental school. I'm going to finance my loans into the REPAYE/PAYE/IBR (haven't figured out which is best) (https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/understand/plans/income-driven) program and then since I plan on working for a state school, I'll be able to utilize the PSLF (https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/public-service) program.

I really love oral pathology and want to teach, so this makes the most sense to me. In theory, I'll be paying 10% of my discretionary income for 10 years (120 payments per month) and then the rest of the debt is forgiven. Since I expect a lower salary due to the nature of academic work, I think this is my best option. Unfortunately this all gets derailed if any of these programs get cut, but this is the best option I've come up with.

 

[super frank]

Apply to places where you can commute and live with family/SO's.

 

[Carbohydrates]

Cry

 

[Maybe.a.dentist]

This isn't the traditional path, but I'm planning on going to my state school, specializing into oral path, and then working for a state school (hopefully my own) as a member of the faculty. By my estimation, I'll need about a $291,000 loan for tuition and living expenses for all four years of dental school. I'm going to finance my loans into the REPAYE/PAYE/IBR (haven't figured out which is best) (https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/understand/plans/income-driven) program and then since I plan on working for a state school, I'll be able to utilize the PSLF (https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/public-service) program.

I really love oral pathology and want to teach, so this makes the most sense to me. In theory, I'll be paying 10% of my discretionary income for 10 years (120 payments per month) and then the rest of the debt is forgiven. Since I expect a lower salary due to the nature of academic work, I think this is my best option. Unfortunately this all gets derailed if any of these programs get cut, but this is the best option I've come up with.

A plan like this can be solid. Also, I don't know if you're aware (or if your state even does this) but you can look up state salaries by name if they are above $50,000. I did this with my state dental school, the guy running the program is killing it financially, of course it took him a while to reach that point.

 

[super frank]

This isn't the traditional path, but I'm planning on going to my state school, specializing into oral path, and then working for a state school (hopefully my own) as a member of the faculty. By my estimation, I'll need about a $291,000 loan for tuition and living expenses for all four years of dental school. I'm going to finance my loans into the REPAYE/PAYE/IBR (haven't figured out which is best) (https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/understand/plans/income-driven) program and then since I plan on working for a state school, I'll be able to utilize the PSLF (https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/public-service) program.

I really love oral pathology and want to teach, so this makes the most sense to me. In theory, I'll be paying 10% of my discretionary income for 10 years (120 payments per month) and then the rest of the debt is forgiven. Since I expect a lower salary due to the nature of academic work, I think this is my best option. Unfortunately this all gets derailed if any of these programs get cut, but this is the best option I've come up with.

And then you get hit with a tax bomb?

 

[Maybe.a.dentist]

And then you get hit with a tax bomb?

I would think the tax bomb could be handled. I haven't run the specific numbers for their case, but if you earn $150,000 assuming you get taxed 32 percent (though this will vary by state but I feel its alright for an approximation) you will be left with $102,000 per year. If you only pay 10% of that to loan repayment you are still left with $91,000, which is enough to afford a comfortable life and still put plenty away in savings for the tax bomb at the end of they payment plan. Of course there are other things to consider (like retirement funding) but there's likely to be pay raises and there could be a second income from a spouse.

 

[Incis0r]

And then you get hit with a tax bomb?

PSLF doesn't have a tax bomb. You make 10 years of qualifying payments (under a plan like IBR/PAYE), and then (and only then) you are able to apply for forgiveness. Note: You are NOT in the program until you make 10 years of qualifying payments. So if the program is wiped out after you made 8 yrs of IBR/PAYE payments hoping to get PSLF in 2 more years, you're out of luck.

IBR/PAYE by itself (longer terms) does carry a tax bomb, but you don't need to work for a nonprofit to take advantage of IBR/PAYE. To get PSLF, you DO need to work for a nonprofit.

Forgiveness is not guaranteed, nobody has gotten their loans forgiven through this program yet (due to the 10 year requirement). Furthermore, the financial aid officer at a dental school interview that I went to cautioned us that there will likely be a cap instituted on the amount forgiven (i.e. only $50,000 of your $600,000 debt will be forgiven). This is due to public perception that doctors making lots of money are getting hundreds of thousands forgiven at the taxpayer's expense.

 

[super frank]

Thanks for clearing that up!

 

[Incis0r]

^

 

[distressstudent]

I would think the tax bomb could be handled. I haven't run the specific numbers for their case, but if you earn $150,000 assuming you get taxed 32 percent (though this will vary by state but I feel its alright for an approximation) you will be left with $102,000 per year. If you only pay 10% of that to loan repayment you are still left with $91,000, which is enough to afford a comfortable life and still put plenty away in savings for the tax bomb at the end of they payment plan. Of course there are other things to consider (like retirement funding) but there's likely to be pay raises and there could be a second income from a spouse.

Here's a guy that breaks the math to that plan.
Still getting a pretty raw deal IMO. But at least it's a plan.

 

[NavyDDS1990]

Navy all the way

 

[Vault_Tec]

I'm going to make the minimum payments, refinance at around 29 years, and die with the rest.

Edit: this is probably not feasible

 

[Incis0r]

I'm going to make the minimum payments, refinance at around 29 years, and die with the rest.

What a GOD! Great idea.

 

[super frank]

I've never really seen this discussed... Can't people refinance after graduation? I know you will lose the perks of federal loans (IBR, etc etc) which is RISKY, but you can potentially end up with a lower interest rate. I'm talking about consolidators like Sofi, Earnest, DRB, etc... Any thoughts on this for the more experienced?

 

[ptiskyq127]

Make enough to pay it off in a reasonable time.

Seriously.

One of the advantages of this profession is that your salary is (for the most part) in your hands - many people forget this and blame the market or the location, etc. While these are valid concerns, if you are truly passionate about this field, and are willing to put in the work to build a successful practice, then the debt you incur will really not be that bad.

The doom and gloom approach a lot of people have is toxic and, quite frankly, is indicative of the level of confidence they have in their future earning ability.

 

[cacazor]

Make enough to pay it off in a reasonable time.

Seriously.

One of the advantages of this profession is that your salary is (for the most part) in your hands - many people forget this and blame the market or the location, etc. While these are valid concerns, if you are truly passionate about this field, and are willing to put in the work to build a successful practice, then the debt you incur will really not be that bad.

The doom and gloom approach a lot of people have is toxic and, quite frankly, is indicative of the level of confidence they have in their future earning ability.

You're right. Instead of discussing how to realistically handle your student loan debt, we should just yolo it.

Plans are only for losers who can't print money

 

[ptiskyq127]

You're right. Instead of discussing how to realistically handle your student loan debt, we should just yolo it.

Plans are only for losers who can't print money

I'm not saying planning is for losers or is unnecessary. Far from it. I spent several years in finance, I understand the risks and negative factors associated with a large amount of debt.

My beef is with the entirely negative, impending doom attitude that prevails in 9/10 of the threads discussing it.

Be smart about what you spend, consider it in your decision on where you go, but don't let it haunt your thoughts about this path or weigh you down - after all, the debt is inevitable. You can, however, control your attitude about it.

 

[Incis0r]

the debt is inevitable.

Wrong.

 

[Screwtape]

I'm going to get a job, and then pay it off.

 

[Jordan95]

My plan is simple.

Absolutely ANNIHILATE it the second I start earning a solid income. I'm talking throwing 75% of my income at debt solely. Post tax at around $100k a year. $70k to debt for 3-4 years = driving a corolla and eating rice and beans! Don't give AF.


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[Incis0r]

My plan is simple.

Absolutely ANNIHILATE it the second I start earning a solid income. I'm talking throwing 75% of my income at debt solely. Post tax at around $100k a year. $70k to debt for 3-4 years = driving a corolla and eating rice and beans! Don't give AF.


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I like this. Simple and easy to follow.
If you can get some loan repayment, then you'll kill the debt even faster!

Are you going to a state school?

 

[Jordan95]

I like this. Simple and easy to follow.
If you can get some loan repayment, then you'll kill the debt even faster!

Are you going to a state school?

I still have two more years of college, and to be frank I'm not 100% sold on going into Dentistry.

Either way debt is debt.

 

[Panis et Circenses]

If you guys go talk to dentists... It's not as easy as you think. Making more than 120,000 to 150,000 is pretty hard when you are just starting out. You guys also have to realize your income is taxed. 120k salary doesn't mean 120k you can put into paying off a loan. I talked to a dentist who graduated from UoP in 2005, I believe, and he's still in a lot of debt. He started his own practice right outside of graduation as well.. So he's been in private practice that long..

 

[Jordan95]

If you guys go talk to dentists... It's not as easy as you think. Making more than 120,000 to 150,000 is pretty hard when you are just starting out. You guys also have to realize your income is taxed. 120k salary doesn't mean 120k you can put into paying off a loan. I talked to a dentist who graduated from UoP in 2005, I believe, and he's still in a lot of debt. He started his own practice right outside of graduation as well.. So he's been in private practice that long..

You're right, but if I can figure out a way to guarantee myself over $90K (post tax) out of school, I know I can make it work.

However, just like you wouldn't ask your CFP for oral health advice, you shouldn't ask your Dentist for financial advice. Talking to practicing Dentists about real world salaries is different than comparing how they're tackling their debt load to how you should be tackling your debt load.

I'm not taking any financial advice from the 50 year old dentist who's driving a Porsche and complaining about still being in debt.

 

[Incis0r]

You're right, but if I can figure out a way to guarantee myself over $90K (post tax) out of school, I know I can make it work.

Consider it guaranteed:

• $550/day is a reasonable minimum for general dentists just starting out.
• Working 5 days/week, you will earn $550/day * 240 days/yr= $132,000/yr minimum.
• Working 6 days/week, (one full-time job & one part-time job), you will earn $550/day * 276 days = $158,400/yr minimum.

If you live in a state like WA which has no state income tax,

• You will have $95K post-tax (federal income & FICA) working 5 days/week.
• You will have$114K post-tax (federal income & FICA) working 6 days/week.

WA has a lot of CHCs with high need for general dentists...many are right in or near Seattle itself. This carries additional tax-free loan repayment opportunity. You can commute by ferry from a more affordable location if you want to minimize cost of living.

 

[Panis et Circenses]

You're right, but if I can figure out a way to guarantee myself over $90K (post tax) out of school, I know I can make it work.

However, just like you wouldn't ask your CFP for oral health advice, you shouldn't ask your Dentist for financial advice. Talking to practicing Dentists about real world salaries is different than comparing how they're tackling their debt load to how you should be tackling your debt load.

I'm not taking any financial advice from the 50 year old dentist who's driving a Porsche and complaining about still being in debt.

I agree. Sometimes we just tend to think we are the exception to the rule, when we can actually tend to be more like everyone else than we realize. But if you live very cheaply, and work hard, sure you can pay off loans relatively fast. If you get more than 500k of debt, it wont be easy, but you get the idea.

 

[Jordan95]

I agree. Sometimes we just tend to think we are the exception to the rule, when we can actually tend to be more like everyone else than we realize. But if you live very cheaply, and work hard, sure you can pay off loans relatively fast. If you get more than 500k of debt, it wont be easy, but you get the idea.

I think anyone who spends that amount of money on any sort of education is an idiot.

If you're going into Dentistry, it's for the money, period. Spending half a million dollars to get there is the definition of an oxymoron.

 

[osker246]

I think anyone who spends that amount of money on any sort of education is an idiot.

If you're going into Dentistry, it's for the money, period. Spending half a million dollars to get there is the definition of an oxymoron.

Or they are doing it for a job that they can enjoy and are passionate about. Believe it or not, not all dentist do it for the money alone.

 

[Soleus715]

:troll:

 

[Jordan95]

:troll:

How dare you!

 

[BluntForceTrauma]

My plan is simple.

Absolutely ANNIHILATE it the second I start earning a solid income. I'm talking throwing 75% of my income at debt solely. Post tax at around $100k a year. $70k to debt for 3-4 years = driving a corolla and eating rice and beans! Don't give AF.


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100% my plan, and I'm thankful my wife is on board as well.
We don't know what it's like to be rich or even moderately well off so heck, living like a pauper for a few more years won't be too hard.

And anything I drive that is newer than my current '02 Civic will be a godsend. Don't need no beamer.

 

[oralcare123]

I think anyone who spends that amount of money on any sort of education is an idiot.

If you're going into Dentistry, it's for the money, period. Spending half a million dollars to get there is the definition of an oxymoron.

Some people have money and don't care how much this education costs

 

[Mascota]

Or they are doing it for a job that they can enjoy and are passionate about. Believe it or not, not all dentist do it for the money alone.

"I'm going into dentistry because I enjoy it and I'm passionate about it" - Every pre-dent that has never practiced dentistry a day in their life.

 

[Polkadotfan]

Pre-dent: Getting rid of most of my bills now (cars and any credit cards paid off).
Really started budgeting 2 months ago. It's been amazingly helpful at seeing where I waste money!
Saving for a cushion when it comes to moving/starting so I'm not racking up more debt before I even start...

Dent: Without car bills and assuming my husband only goes to school I know we will be comfortable while not taking the full amount allotted to living expenses. (He needs to work though seriously lol) Hopefully pay the interest on my student loans while I'm in school (it's something!)

Post School: Live like I did in school. DH will hopefully have a better job with a degree. Cars are already paid off, used to living on little and adhering to a strict budget so in all honesty it shouldn't be that bad - but I'm pretty disciplined.

 

[acesofseven]

I'm going to make the minimum payments, refinance at around 29 years, and die with the rest.

Edit: this is probably not feasible

Pretty sure loans would then be the responsibility of your spouse if they're not dead before you. (Children too perhaps? Not too sure because I'm financially inept)

 

[Jordan95]

Pretty sure loans would then be the responsibility of your spouse if they're not dead before you. (Children too perhaps? Not too sure because I'm financially inept)

Not sure why I'm up. But it depends on if the loans are subsidized but the government or not.

Private loans are passed on to family.

 

[fogorvostan]

Brother is retiring in 5-10 years and I will be inheriting his practices.

 

[BluntForceTrauma]

Pretty sure loans would then be the responsibility of your spouse if they're not dead before you. (Children too perhaps? Not too sure because I'm financially inept)

Actually no. A mortgage yes, but not loans. Had an endo discuss this very scenario with me and it was his justification for why he paid off his mortgage first and then his loans.

 

[Endeross]

Pretty sure loans would then be the responsibility of your spouse if they're not dead before you. (Children too perhaps? Not too sure because I'm financially inept)

As stated above this isnt true. I was a student loan debt collector for a little while, if a person dies, sending in a copy of the certified death certificate was enough for our collections agency to mark them as unrecoverable and discharged. It's one of the only ways to get rid of your student loans without paying them as they are not bankruptable and stick with YOU, not your spouse (unless they co-signed which only occurs with some parents and should never occur on student loans imo as they're given like candy to anyone regardless). The other way is to work as a teacher and have them paid off by the government for working 10 years as such through loan forgiveness. Alternatively, take out a mortgage and pay off your loans with it also (compile them essentially) then default on the house mortgage and bankrupt it, but if you do that intentionally it's fraud and brings its own issues when caught. I only heard of this happening 2x while I was debt collecting because fraud can land you in jail.

 

[Advance]

I think anyone who spends that amount of money on any sort of education is an idiot.

If you're going into Dentistry, it's for the money, period. Spending half a million dollars to get there is the definition of an oxymoron.

Unfortunately this kind of debt is becoming the norm and is unavoidable for some students wanting to pursue dentistry.

 

[Faux]

I think anyone who spends that amount of money on any sort of education is an idiot.

If you're going into Dentistry, it's for the money, period. Spending half a million dollars to get there is the definition of an oxymoron.

Not necessarily. I'm really enjoying what we're doing in school now, as a second year student. Money was one of the benefits, obviously. But all the other reasons why I got into this, are still very valid, if not more so since I'm actually doing it now.

Money was always a reason, but never number one.

 

[Incis0r]

Not necessarily. I'm really enjoying what we're doing in school now, as a second year student. Money was one of the benefits, obviously. But all the other reasons why I got into this, are still very valid, if not more so since I'm actually doing it now.

Money was always a reason, but never number one.

Beautifully said, sir.

 

[Jordan95]

Not necessarily. I'm really enjoying what we're doing in school now, as a second year student. Money was one of the benefits, obviously. But all the other reasons why I got into this, are still very valid, if not more so since I'm actually doing it now.

Money was always a reason, but never number one.

Forthrightly, I think I would enjoy Dental school too; it seems like a fun, and analytical learning experience where you have the pleasure of meeting a bunch of like minded people with similar interests. However, I'm going to expand on what I said before and add that; people going into any career are largely doing it for the money - this is no secret. Opting for a higher paying career is the norm in our society, and it's perfectly ethical to want and have more (not politicizing here,) and is certainly attainable by anyone who has the drive to get there. I just think a lot of people are blinded by the fact that dentists earn so much, and see debt as the only intangible in the way of them and there future earning potential so they just "take it" regardless.

With that said, I don't think money is the ONLY reason people peruse dentistry, I think it's THE reason people peruse dentistry.

 

[Alpha Centauri]

I always assumed I would work as an associate for a bit to get on my feet, finally get a paycheck after 8 years of schooling, and start paying my loans down before I open up a practice. Is that a bad idea?

 

[Incis0r]

Is that a bad idea?

Not at all. There is no one-size-fits-all approach.

@fogorvostan wrote that she is inheriting her brother's practices and will be using that established infrastructure to sort out her loans. @Domonu is looking into PSLF.
@Jordan95 is going to go ham on his loans the moment he gets a job.

As long as the numbers work out and you're confident in your plan, then that's all that matters.

 

[Mascota]

Forthrightly, I think I would enjoy Dental school too; it seems like a fun, and analytical learning experience where you have the pleasure of meeting a bunch of like minded people with similar interests. However, I'm going to expand on what I said before and add that; people going into any career are largely doing it for the money - this is no secret. Opting for a higher paying career is the norm in our society, and it's perfectly ethical to want and have more (not politicizing here,) and is certainly attainable by anyone who has the drive to get there. I just think a lot of people are blinded by the fact that dentists earn so much, and see debt as the only intangible in the way of them and there future earning potential so they just "take it" regardless.

With that said, I don't think money is the ONLY reason people peruse dentistry, I think it's THE reason people peruse dentistry.

Nailed it.

 

[fogorvostan]

Not at all. There is no one-size-fits-all approach.

@fogorvostan wrote that she is inheriting her brother's practices and will be using that established infrastructure to sort out her loans. @Domonu is looking into PSLF.
@Jordan95 is going to go ham on his loans the moment he gets a job.

As long as the numbers work out and you're confident in your plan, then that's all that matters.

And for me, that's the only reason I'm not pursuing anything like NHSC or HPSP. I'm going to be immediately moving to work alongside him when I graduate. In my case, it makes more sense to just take the debt instead of trading off my first four years out school.

If it wasn't for him, I'd definitely be applying to NHSC. One of the people in my class actually got awarded both NHSC and Air Force HPSP. She chose Air Force and part of me is super jealous haha

 

[Likkriue]

Live like a pauper, AKA peasant. I'll live on 1K a month if I can and throw everything at the debt. Once thats done, I'll transition to a better lifestyle WITHOUT debt eating at my back.

 

[Jordan95]

I always assumed I would work as an associate for a bit to get on my feet, finally get a paycheck after 8 years of schooling, and start paying my loans down before I open up a practice. Is that a bad idea?

I think this is the majorities plan.

To me, this is actually one of the negatives of dentistry. I'm not looking forward to scrambling around trying to start a business after eight years of post high school formal education, along with a mountain of debt to climb. If I wanted to start a business I would have skipped college and started selling stuff on Amazon at 17.

*Edit - I want to emphasize, I'm not trying to deter anyone from entering the field, do what you please, please! I'm simply trying to express some introspection that I feel is often overlooked by a large portion of students whom are pursuing a career that often entails copious amounts of debt.