Incentive to give deliberately misleading advice on the forum

[verify]

I posted a true incident about me getting into a near fight at a gas station and many people called me a troll and called my story unbelievable.

That got me thinking.

There is a saying in Montana that people who lie are the ones who constantly see liars in others.

If people find my true story to be made up, maybe they are making up stuff to post on the forum and deliberately giving wrong advice to posters.

Come to think of it, there are strong incentives to give deliberately misleading advice on an admissions forum.

- If you exaggerate the difficulty of getting into med school, you turn away potential applicants and diminish competition for your seat

- If you exaggerate the MCAT required for University of MD Medical College, fewer people will apply to that college and you stand a better chance of getting in

- If you give wrong advice about courses, people will take the wrong kind of courses and you stand a better chance of being accepted

- If you suggest someone in the MCAT range < X focus on osteopathic schools, that would mean lesser competition for MD programs

I can think of many reasons why posters on a forum like this should lie, which diminishes my confidence in the advice we should be taking from this forum.

Curious to know what others think of this.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[transfec]

I posted a true incident about me getting into a near fight at a gas station and many people called me a troll and called my story unbelievable.

That got me thinking.

There is a saying in Montana that people who lie are the ones who constantly see liars in others.

If people find my true story to be made up, maybe they are making up stuff to post on the forum and deliberately giving wrong advice to posters.

Come to think of it, there are strong incentives to give deliberately misleading advice on an admissions forum.

- If you exaggerate the difficulty of getting into med school, you turn away potential applicants and diminish competition for your seat

- If you exaggerate the MCAT required for University of MD Medical College, fewer people will apply to that college and you stand a better chance of getting in

- If you give wrong advice about courses, people will take the wrong kind of courses and you stand a better chance of being accepted

I can think of many reasons why posters on a forum like this should lie, which diminishes my confidence in the advice we should be taking from this forum.

Curious to know what others think of this.

Ridiculous lol

 

[Mithril]

If you deliberately give bad advice on this forum, you're a bad person and you should feel bad.

If you're so insecure about not getting in due to your own faults that you have to sabotage someone else's chances, then maybe you shouldn't be a doctor in the first place.

 

[boko]

i saw your story too and didnt find it to be a lie..what benefit would you have from lying..none...but people are just being immature and having nothing better to do with their time! so get a life to the people who made a joke out of your story!

 

[gettheleadout]

I posted a true incident about me getting into a near fight at a gas station and many people called me a troll and called my story unbelievable.

That got me thinking.

There is a saying in Montana that people who lie are the ones who constantly see liars in others.

If people find my true story to be made up, maybe they are making up stuff to post on the forum and deliberately giving wrong advice to posters.

Come to think of it, there are strong incentives to give deliberately misleading advice on an admissions forum.

- If you exaggerate the difficulty of getting into med school, you turn away potential applicants and diminish competition for your seat

- If you exaggerate the MCAT required for University of MD Medical College, fewer people will apply to that college and you stand a better chance of getting in

- If you give wrong advice about courses, people will take the wrong kind of courses and you stand a better chance of being accepted

- If you suggest someone in the MCAT range < X focus on osteopathic schools, that would mean lesser competition for MD programs

I can think of many reasons why posters on a forum like this should lie, which diminishes my confidence in the advice we should be taking from this forum.

Curious to know what others think of this.

I see what you did there!

If you post about the possibility of people giving misleading advice on SDN, fewer people will trust SDN and therefore will be less informed and competitive in applying, and that will help your own chances!

In reality, this possibility is void because A: people are not all jerks, B: informed people here call out the liars/trolls, and C: we have registered Advisors like LizzyM, Catalystik, and many other providing irrefutably legitimate advice.

/thread

 

[WingedOx]

yeah, posting false info on SDN is a waste of time. Instead, I go and change info on wikipedia the week before a test on that subject.

 

[Azrie]

There are bastards everywhere.. SDN included. Fact of life.
(And frankly, I do my own research after "learning" something on SDN, if the topic's important enough to me.)

But really, I don't see why I should expect the worst from others automatically? Sure, some people waste their time posting up lies in an attempt to gain pity/mislead others.. so what? I'm not going to waste time sobbing over someone's horrible day, or use info I gain here without double-checking. Let them waste their own time/effort. Simply laugh, and move on, yeah?

In other words.. Make your own judgments, take everything on here with a grain of salt, and remember that people are people.
Stupid happens. The universe laughs.

 

[NickNaylor]

OP is a troll.

 

[WingedOx]

and that incident took place in MT? I thought people driving fast was the whole incentive to go to Montana...

...though it probably explains why the highway thru the Gallatin Canyon is lined with crosses.

 

[verify]

we have registered Advisors like LizzyM, Catalystik, and many other providing irrefutably legitimate advice.

/thread

Does anyone know who they are in real life? Or do we just assume they are college administrators because they say so?

 

[verify]

OP is a troll.

Are you really really fat? Because most of the exercise you seem to get is from jumping to conclusions like I am a troll! I asked legitimate questions: is there an incentive for people to give deliberately misleading advice on the forum and if so, to what extent can we trust the advice we get on here? And, do we just naively assume LizzyM or Catalystik are college administrators or someone with admission decision making authority in real life just because they say so - without knowing their real identity?

 

[Kaustikos]

Does anyone know who they are in real life? Or do we just assume they are college administrators because they say so?

Yes, they're frauds, just like everyone else. I just choose to openly admit I am not an adcom and am instead a pre-med. Actually, this entire site is a fraud made by 4chan to prank neurotic pre-meds into coming here and occasionally aiding "To Catch a Predator" via pedobear references to lure the pedophiles.

 

[dbeast]

Are you really really fat? Because most of the exercise you seem to get is from jumping to conclusions like I am a troll! I asked legitimate questions: is there an incentive for people to give deliberately misleading advice on the forum and if so, to what extent can we trust the advice we get on here? And, do we just naively assume LizzyM or Catalystik are college administrators or someone with admission decision making authority in real life just because they say so - without knowing their real identity?

LizzyM and Catalystik = 8,000 posts each. All of them helpful. Shabam!

 

[mitchlucker]

Yeah, I don't know why people do that stuff, but OP you should bleach your skin so you can pass as a true mexican and get into med school URM, that woman b*tching at you was a blessing in disguise

 

[verify]

LizzyM and Catalystik = 8,000 posts each. All of them helpful. Shabam!

Maybe they are both persona of the administrator hosting this forum - with good intentions and a genuine desire to keep this forum useful. But maybe they are not college administrators as they claim?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Maybe they are both persona of the administrator hosting this forum - with good intentions and a genuine desire to keep this forum useful. But maybe they are not college administrators as they claim?

I think you have a little too much time on your hands. Consider taking up a hobby, something like underwater basket waiving or Easter egg hunting.

 

[loveoforganic]

It's possible. It's an anonymous forum. You just have to analyze info you read critically.

 

[Narmerguy]

Does anyone know who they are in real life? Or do we just assume they are college administrators because they say so?

I think there's a validation process before you can achieve the "advisor" icon or whatever.

Similarly, some people may indeed give misleading advice but so many others give legitimate advice that it's mostly a nonissue. Also, what's the motivation for giving misleading advice? It's rare that most of us will answer questions that will have a serious singular effect on someone's application such that they'll get rejected/accepted because of it. One little piece of misinformation just doesn't do enough to make it worth it.

Not to mention it's against the spirit of these sorts of forums.

 

[NickNaylor]

Are you really really fat? Because most of the exercise you seem to get is from jumping to conclusions like I am a troll! I asked legitimate questions: is there an incentive for people to give deliberately misleading advice on the forum and if so, to what extent can we trust the advice we get on here? And, do we just naively assume LizzyM or Catalystik are college administrators or someone with admission decision making authority in real life just because they say so - without knowing their real identity?

loljoke

 

[nicolemeooow]

Maybe they are both persona of the administrator hosting this forum - with good intentions and a genuine desire to keep this forum useful. But maybe they are not college administrators as they claim?

I can see they r trying to help people, but one of my friends could have lost 2+ interview invitations had he listened to their advice.

 

[Narmerguy]

I can see they r trying to help people, but one of my friends could have lost 2+ interview invitations had he listened to their advice.

Important to remember that perhaps they could have lost interviews at other schools (like theirs) by not following their advice.

 

[nicolemeooow]

Important to remember that perhaps they could have lost interviews at other schools (like theirs) by not following their advice.

Meh, maybe. I mean I respect their efforts. Just felt that too many people take advice from this site way too seriously.

 

[ILikeDrugs]

We all have access to real stats. Such as the GPA/MCAT scores vs % acceptance tables. Other things are obvious, such as the general amount of ECs that one must have and from where. Lies/exaggerations about what's needed would be quickly spotted by anyone that's been on here for a great amount of time. You can't really deceive people on here with posts without those posts coming under the scrutiny of SDN members.

But I do agree with what you said before, that those who lie a lot see everyone else as liars. My sister was like that, she was nuts and would constantly accuse others of plotting against her in the final years just before I moved out. It was only because she was a deceiving, lying, manipulative person herself. You'll also see this with insecure guys who constantly accuse their girlfriend's of cheating, when in actuality it's them who are the cheaters. It's the whole "If I blame them first, then they can't blame me." I doubt that's the case here. The reason why nobody believed you is probably because most pre-meds are too wimpy and scared to fight, so they can't see another pre-med, whom they assume is just like them, actually having the balls to defend themselves.

I can see they r trying to help people, but one of my friends could have lost 2+ interview invitations had he listened to their advice.

What was the advice that your friend received that could have prevented them from receiving interviews?

 

[rafflecopter]

par·a·noi·a

[par-uh-noi-uh]

–noun 1.Psychiatry. a mental disorder characterized by systematized delusions and the projection of personal conflicts, which are ascribed to the supposed hostility of others, sometimes progressing to disturbances of consciousness and aggressive acts believed to be performed in self-defense or as a mission.

2.baseless or excessive suspicion of the motives of others.

 

[LizzyM]

Yes, those of us with the "advisor" logo were vetted and verified before being granted that status. There is no incentive for me to lie.... I'm here because I felt badly for all the pre-meds who were lacking essential information about the process. At first I didn't identify myself at an adcom member and I got all kind of grief, "how do you know that? what makes you think that's true?" and so I admitted to being an adcom at an undisclosed location.

 

[nicolemeooow]

We all have access to real stats. Such as the GPA/MCAT scores vs % acceptance tables. Other things are obvious, such as the general amount of ECs that one must have and from where. Lies/exaggerations about what's needed would be quickly spotted by anyone that's been on here for a great amount of time. You can't really deceive people on here with posts without those posts coming under the scrutiny of SDN members.

But I do agree with what you said before, that those who lie a lot see everyone else as liars. My sister was like that, she was nuts and would constantly accuse others of plotting against her in the final years just before I moved out. It was only because she was a deceiving, lying, manipulative person herself. You'll also see this with insecure guys who constantly accuse their girlfriend's of cheating, when in actuality it's them who are the cheaters. It's the whole "If I blame them first, then they can't blame me." I doubt that's the case here. The reason why nobody believed you is probably because most pre-meds are too wimpy and scared to fight, so they can't see another pre-med, whom they assume is just like them, actually having the balls to defend themselves.


What was the advice that your friend received that could have prevented them from receiving interviews?

Not applying to schools that they think r "too good" for him.
But again, like I said I have no doubt that they have good intensions. Just felt like some ppl treat their advice as the bible (some of my other friends clearly do so).

 

[verify]

I suppose I am skeptical because I am on another forum dealing with farming issues that is super-supportive and encouraging. Many (certainly not all) people here seem insulting, wanting to run others down, calling legitimate posters trolls, and downright rude. Plus not many people seem to want to connect, make friends, give out their real email, give out their real pictures, give out links to their Facebook pages and other info, etc. That is what makes me suspect that information given out on this forum may have insidious purposes - like discouraging competition for instance.

 

[verify]

Maybe it is a case of self selection. I have heard that in hospitals, nurses and CNAs tend to be nice, those in nursing administration tend to be less nice, pediatricians tend to be nice while surgeons almost always tend to be rude. At schools, biology majors tend to be nice, engineering majors tend to be socially inept, business majors tend to be jerks.

So maybe this is the nature of the beast called "pre-med" students.

 

[docelh]

A high majority are a bunch of snarky jack-asses who post for their own self amusement. That's why I do it.... sometimes.

Mis-information plays a very small role in my motivation.

 

[verify]

A high majority are a bunch of snarky jack-asses who post for their own self amusement. That's why I do it.... sometimes.

Mis-information plays a very small role in my motivation.

Maybe deliberately feeding misinformation plays a very small role in YOUR motivation. But does it in most people? Look at our American media. They deliberately feed misinformation - for instance about how and where to invest money. Misinformation has strategic advantages and should not be overlooked on a forum like this.

 

[jvesco22]

A high majority are a bunch of snarky jack-asses who post for their own self amusement. That's why I do it.... sometimes.

Mis-information plays a very small role in my motivation.

+1

OP you had like what, 8 posts? And then decided to make some thread about you almost fighting in a gas station. Seriously? LOL

The fact that you post it in the pre-med discussion forum is just amusing, try the lounge...

Oh yeah and thanks for giving me an idea for my new signature, props!

OP is a troll

 

[rhesuspieces]

 

[BigRedBeta]

I posted a true incident about me getting into a near fight at a gas station and many people called me a troll and called my story unbelievable.

That got me thinking.

There is a saying in Montana that people who lie are the ones who constantly see liars in others.

If people find my true story to be made up, maybe they are making up stuff to post on the forum and deliberately giving wrong advice to posters.

Come to think of it, there are strong incentives to give deliberately misleading advice on an admissions forum.

- If you exaggerate the difficulty of getting into med school, you turn away potential applicants and diminish competition for your seat

- If you exaggerate the MCAT required for University of MD Medical College, fewer people will apply to that college and you stand a better chance of getting in

- If you give wrong advice about courses, people will take the wrong kind of courses and you stand a better chance of being accepted

- If you suggest someone in the MCAT range < X focus on osteopathic schools, that would mean lesser competition for MD programs

I can think of many reasons why posters on a forum like this should lie, which diminishes my confidence in the advice we should be taking from this forum.

Curious to know what others think of this.

I'm a resident, I've traveled the road already, and you don't represent any sort of competition to me. None of the incentives you've listed apply to me, there's no reason for me to embellish any of my posts...

 

[dbeast]

I posted a true incident about me getting into a near fight at a gas station and many people called me a troll and called my story unbelievable.

That got me thinking.

There is a saying in Montana that people who lie are the ones who constantly see liars in others.

If people find my true story to be made up, maybe they are making up stuff to post on the forum and deliberately giving wrong advice to posters.

Come to think of it, there are strong incentives to give deliberately misleading advice on an admissions forum.

- If you exaggerate the difficulty of getting into med school, you turn away potential applicants and diminish competition for your seat

- If you exaggerate the MCAT required for University of MD Medical College, fewer people will apply to that college and you stand a better chance of getting in

- If you give wrong advice about courses, people will take the wrong kind of courses and you stand a better chance of being accepted

- If you suggest someone in the MCAT range < X focus on osteopathic schools, that would mean lesser competition for MD programs

I can think of many reasons why posters on a forum like this should lie, which diminishes my confidence in the advice we should be taking from this forum.

Curious to know what others think of this.

You say liars are paranoid of other liars, then go on to call this site's advisors liars, which makes you a liar by your own definition, then you get mad when anyone questions your story. I think this violates some sort of positive feedback loop.

This thread is fuN!

 

[chman]

This forum can be rough, that's a fact. What you need to realize, however, OP, is that there ARE lots of trolls on here. If you stick around you will find that people, losers with lots of time on their hands, will make up all kinds of stuff to get attention on here. Posters that have been around for a while begin to get skeptical of any poster with a small number of posts that make a thread about something out of the ordinary or controversial.

On the flip side, I think that if people believe you are genuine, or after you have been around a little while, the advice on here is usually heart felt, and I have rarely, to never actually, seen regular posters give intentionally bad advice just to cause trouble. Frauds are found out around here fairly quickly, so you can pretty much rest easy that if someone with thousands of posts is claiming to be an advisor they either are, or give out advise so well that people assume they are.

 

[deleted307836]

You say liars are paranoid of other liars, then go on to call this site's advisors liars, which makes you a liar by your own definition, then you get mad when anyone questions your story. I think this violates some sort of positive feedback loop.

This thread is fuN!

I see what you did there!

If you post about the possibility of people giving misleading advice on SDN, fewer people will trust SDN and therefore will be less informed and competitive in applying, and that will help your own chances!

/thread

Ownage.

BTW, OP, if in doubt just do the opposite of what someone is advising you to do. Trust your gut, you know?

 

[verify]

I'm a resident, I've traveled the road already, and you don't represent any sort of competition to me. None of the incentives you've listed apply to me, there's no reason for me to embellish any of my posts...

Probably. But strictly speaking, even someone in your position would have an incentive to minimize the number of practicing doctors, wouldn't you? I am not saying you are like that.

 

[eli20]

Now you're just delusional...

 

[verify]

Now you're just delusional...

Maybe - but it is the culture of this forum that makes me that way. Meanness, insults, no one wants to connect or make friends, etc. Can you - or rather - should you trust advice given in such an environment?

 

[NickNaylor]

Protip: you should probably ignore anything I say.

 

[circulus vitios]

 

[chman]

 

[IlDestriero]

I gave you some reasonable advice about getting the F off of the farm and focusing on your own career and future before it's too late. By the time you get out of residency, I'll be close to retirement. Better to not listen to me, I'm afraid you might force me out of my job. By than I'll be a full professor, but the clinical instructors come in with their new fangled techniques and crazy ideas. Oh wait, I taught them to you. I'm good!
If you decide to be a pediatric subspecialist surgeon, you might actually bring me work.
Are you sure the big dude at the gas station didn't crack you in the head?

 

[verify]

Answer my question: Meanness, insults, no one wants to connect or make friends, etc. Can you - or rather - should you trust advice given in such an environment?

 

[docelh]

Answer my question: Meanness, insults, no one wants to connect or make friends, etc. Can you - or rather - should you trust advice given in such an environment?

Are you going to have a meltdown when you realize medicine isn't quite as noble and inspirational as you had hoped?

Get a grip, man.

 

[Avoidthetiger]

I suppose I am skeptical because I am on another forum dealing with farming issues that is super-supportive and encouraging. Many (certainly not all) people here seem insulting, wanting to run others down, calling legitimate posters trolls, and downright rude. Plus not many people seem to want to connect, make friends, give out their real email, give out their real pictures, give out links to their Facebook pages and other info, etc. That is what makes me suspect that information given out on this forum may have insidious purposes - like discouraging competition for instance.

I am facebook friends with several people on SDN. I only friend one that I connect with and find to be good company during this hectic application process -- all of them are applying this year too and we help/support each other. I don't know who you are and all I have seen you do is complain -- so sorry; I am not giving you my info. I have also given my email address to people who have helped me during this process. No one is unwilling to give out their information if you are actually seeking help and support. I haven't seen that in any of your posts yet.

Maybe it is a case of self selection. I have heard that in hospitals, nurses and CNAs tend to be nice, those in nursing administration tend to be less nice, pediatricians tend to be nice while surgeons almost always tend to be rude. At schools, biology majors tend to be nice, engineering majors tend to be socially inept, business majors tend to be jerks.

So maybe this is the nature of the beast called "pre-med" students.

This generalized comments makes me think "lol troll"

You original post about the woman was just inappropriate for a premed forum... which is why some assume troll. It might be genuine, but why share with us.

 

[chman]

 

[fizzgig]

oh nooo. all i got out of this thread is that i'm socially inept bc i are engineer

i hate being the last to find this stuff out.. on the internet of all places...

 

[UbuntuGM]

Answer my question: Meanness, insults, no one wants to connect or make friends, etc. Can you - or rather - should you trust advice given in such an environment?

No. There, satisfied? Get your advice somewhere less suspect, then. Let us know how that goes.

I don't understand how someone so seemingly articulate and with enough time to be pensive about the relative ambivalence of an internet forum could be dense enough to expect everything on this site to be gospel.

Trust your family and friends. Be skeptical of everything else.

 

[Frazier]

If people find my true story to be made up, maybe they are making up stuff to post on the forum and deliberately giving wrong advice to posters.

Come to think of it, there are strong incentives to give deliberately misleading advice on an admissions forum.

- If you exaggerate the difficulty of getting into med school, you turn away potential applicants and diminish competition for your seat

- If you exaggerate the MCAT required for University of MD Medical College, fewer people will apply to that college and you stand a better chance of getting in

- If you give wrong advice about courses, people will take the wrong kind of courses and you stand a better chance of being accepted

- If you suggest someone in the MCAT range < X focus on osteopathic schools, that would mean lesser competition for MD programs

In theory, this is quite true. But in reality, the scale of a poster's impact is very small in the overall scheme of one's "competition".

In other words, said misleading-poster is wasting his time. The only instance I could think that this could even slightly be effective is if it was applied to a very narrow school -- e.g. doesn't mississippi only accept instate students and receives only approx 700 apps? Perhaps if some elaborate troll made a longitudinal attack on Mississippi's rep (i.e. make fake premed accounts on mcat issues, make fake med student accounts for school quality issues, make fake adcomm accounts for prereq issues) they could sway a couple out of the 700 applicants out of applying -- but I doubt it.