Income

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

FALL06

Junior Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2005
Messages
64
Reaction score
0
I dropped a link on this thread that should clear all questions related to podiatric practice and earning potential. This was an excellent link that I found from the APMA and it's very comprehensive. I was a little shocked to see how low the earning potential was for first year associates (30-50K ouch) but it seems like things steadily pickup from there. As a senior podiatrists you may enjoy some of the highest earnings among medical specialists. I hope this helps...and I'd like to get your feedback. Scholl 2011 :)

http://www.apma.org/s_apma/doc.asp?CID=11&DID=19585

Members don't see this ad.
 
Very interesting! Good article. I wonder if the figures for physicians just out of residency were gross salary or net salary. What do you all thinK?
 
I dropped a link on this thread that should clear all questions related to podiatric practice and earning potential. This was an excellent link that I found from the APMA and it's very comprehensive. I was a little shocked to see how low the earning potential was for first year associates (30-50K ouch) but it seems like things steadily pickup from there. As a senior podiatrists you may enjoy some of the highest earnings among medical specialists. I hope this helps...and I'd like to get your feedback. Scholl 2011 :)

http://www.apma.org/s_apma/doc.asp?CID=11&DID=19585

First year associate pay is a bit complicated but realize that most of the time, it is a base salary. This is because the podiatrist is just starting out and has such a small patient base. Thus, they are a huge risk to the doctor/s in the practice. However, as they build their patient base over the first year, they are bonused accordingly. For instance, a graduating (from residency) pod I met while in Florida signed on with a private practice for a base of 60K. But when talking to him after in practice for a few months, he expected to make over 100K his first year because he was building a fairly quick patient base and would be compensated accordingly.

On the other hand, those that sign on with multi-specialty and ortho groups will generally receive a higher base salary (I've seen from 120-150) but bonus potential is usually lower.

The young members published a salary report that correlated training and salary which I believe to be greatly beneficial for those pods just coming out of residency. This report was discussed in another thread which can be found below.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/archive/index.php/t-268744.html
 
Members don't see this ad :)
First year associate pay is a bit complicated but realize that most of the time, it is a base salary. This is because the podiatrist is just starting out and has such a small patient base. Thus, they are a huge risk to the doctor/s in the practice. However, as they build their patient base over the first year, they are bonused accordingly. For instance, a graduating (from residency) pod I met while in Florida signed on with a private practice for a base of 60K. But when talking to him after in practice for a few months, he expected to make over 100K his first year because he was building a fairly quick patient base and would be compensated accordingly.

On the other hand, those that sign on with multi-specialty and ortho groups will generally receive a higher base salary (I've seen from 120-150) but bonus potential is usually lower.

The young members published a salary report that correlated training and salary which I believe to be greatly beneficial for those pods just coming out of residency. This report was discussed in another thread which can be found below.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/archive/index.php/t-268744.html

That is a very good point Jonwill. I was talking to a recent grad not too long ago and he started with a base salary of 50k. He made 150k his first year because he also collected a percentage of what he billed. Just something to also keep in mind.
 
This is an issue that is discussed over and over again. Back when I started to consider pod school I contacted various physicians throughout different communities and discussed podiatry in general and practice economics in that particular area as well as the job market. I would be willing to post my email conversation with the various pods I have had conversations with. I think it would be very helpful and shed some light on this subject. I am not sure what the forum rules are for this sort of thing. Jonwill or ilizarob is this o.k..I will withhold all personal info of course. Thanks.
 
This is an issue that is discussed over and over again. Back when I started to consider pod school I contacted various physicians throughout different communities and discussed podiatry in general and practice economics in that particular area as well as the job market. I would be willing to post my email conversation with the various pods I have had conversations with. I think it would be very helpful and shed some light on this subject. I am not sure what the forum rules are for this sort of thing. Jonwill or ilizarob is this o.k..I will withhold all personal info of course. Thanks.

I dont think anyone will get offended if you post it so I would say do it. It's more info for us.
 
Here is a question for all ya'll that are in school right now. From what you have heard, what types of practices do most pods go into. Are they starting up their own practice with their buddies, joining all ready established groupd (and if so, are they strictly pod groups or part of ortho groups) or are they working for hospitals or HMO types? Thanks in advance for responses.
 
Here is a question for all ya'll that are in school right now. From what you have heard, what types of practices do most pods go into. Are they starting up their own practice with their buddies, joining all ready established groupd (and if so, are they strictly pod groups or part of ortho groups) or are they working for hospitals or HMO types? Thanks in advance for responses.

Hey there, according to what i've heard from residents and my fourth year friends, its pretty rare to see a graduating pod start a new practice from scratch - the theme nowadays is to work in group practices or as an associate at someone else's practice. The group practices are both - podiatry and multi-specialty. Howevere, there is a decent percentage of docs joining orthopedic practices. I personally haven't heard of many, but I'm sure others have. In fact, one of our most respected members here who currently practices, dpmgrad can attest to this fact.
 
Here is a question for all ya'll that are in school right now. From what you have heard, what types of practices do most pods go into. Are they starting up their own practice with their buddies, joining all ready established groupd (and if so, are they strictly pod groups or part of ortho groups) or are they working for hospitals or HMO types? Thanks in advance for responses.

Multispecialty groups, ortho groups, established private practices.
 
I know of one that just finished residency 2006 july and opened his own practice from scratch.

He planned to join with other pods but he could not find a good enough deal so he opened his own.

He writes for "New Pod on the Block" one of the "Presents" email series.

I think the location that the pod goes into practice helps determine what they will do. If you are in a state that pods and orthos get along then working with the orthos will be easier to find than some other places.

If there are no pods around and not many other docs either than your own practice may be the only choice.

Kaiser hires pods pretty frequently so that is a pretty good deal - malpractice isurance and medical insurance plus some other sweet benifits.

It is hard to say what most do. It depends on what that person wants and what is available to them.
 
This is an issue that is discussed over and over again. Back when I started to consider pod school I contacted various physicians throughout different communities and discussed podiatry in general and practice economics in that particular area as well as the job market. I would be willing to post my email conversation with the various pods I have had conversations with. I think it would be very helpful and shed some light on this subject. I am not sure what the forum rules are for this sort of thing. Jonwill or ilizarob is this o.k..I will withhold all personal info of course. Thanks.

You can post anything you want as long as its not degrading toward anyone. The only person that may have an issue with that is the emailer and thats between you and him. I doubt they would be offended though.
 
O.k. here are some of the emails. I misplaced one of them that was a follow up to one of these emails. I will try to find it because it has some good info as well.


Thanks for your interest in this profession. We always need new (and improved) podiatrists in this marked, or in any profession. I would say the job market is still good in the St. Louis area, or in most other areas for that matter. It depends on how much of a business person you are. Competetition is mainly with other podiatrists, however, there is some competetition with orthopods as well. There are general market guidlines, which I've been told are generally one podiat rist per 20,000 people in a given market. I don't think St. Louis has passed that point yet, but you could do the numbers and check that out. Basically, there is plenty of work to go around.

I am from the Philadelphia area myself, and as I considered that area very saturated with podiatrists, and heavy HMO and malpractice issues in the area, I moved out here to an offer I received from an alumnus from the Temple school, which was then kno wn as PCPM. There seem to be the greatest concentration/saturation of podiatrists in areas where there are podiatry schools, especially in Chicago, New York, and Philadelphia, but I know several of my classmates are working in exactly those areas wh ich are the most saturated! So I doubt that St. Louis is a closed market.

I currently work for a podiatry group practice, and we have 7 offices and four podiatrists and have been growing every year and in fact are having trouble finding associates to hire to work here. Not a lot of people wa nt to relocate here, and not many in St. Louis are interested in podiatry, without a podiatry school here. I have never really felt like competetition, from other podiatrists or orthopods, has been or will be a problem in the foreseeable future.

At present, I work 5 days a week and every other Saturday morning, and have been in practice for 6 years as of last month. I cleared 6 figure salary after my second full year in practice, and am close to $200K this year, which will probably be a bout where I top out as far as salary compensation goes. There are other income opportunities as well, such as surgery centers, imaging centers, and other ventures that come along that can add, or subtract, from your income as a podiatrist.

I would say I average 5-6 surgery cases per week at present, but that is highly variable. There are rare occasions where I will go a week with no cases, and others that I may do 10 cases. I am satisfied with my current work load, but I cou ld be making more take-home money if I was working on my own instead of with a group. I'm still an associate at present. The advantage of group practice is I mainly go home and forget about work, while the partners take care of hiring/firing/t raining/marketing/rent/scheduling issues. I suppose it depends on your level of training and time available to manage those issues.

I do enjoy podiatry, but given my current work situation, I drive around a bit too much and would probably enjoy less running around even if it meant a little less money. What I like most is the variety of problems I can fix and the degree of challenge available, without too much call schedule. The schools will always hit you with sales pitches, but you have to decide what is right for you. If you wanted I would be more than happy to have you follow me at one of my offices for a day or half day to see what I do. I would highly recomm end you spend some time with several different podiatrists, perhaps some in groups and some solo, before making a decision.

Please let me know if I can be of any further help, and sorry I didn't get back to you sooner! Best of luck!
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Thank you for your interest in Podiatry. The American Podiatric Medical
Association publishes a monthly magazine which includes a classified
section. The section lists postions available. This is pretty much the
only method used by podiatrists to find work. The current issue has two
listings for Missouri. One is in St. Louis the other is ours. If you send
me your address I will send you the current issue. By writing to the St.
Louis address you might be able to make contact with a doctor in St. Louis.


As far as the job market in St. Louis is concerned there is an opening in
the APMA Journal about once every three years. This does not account for
positions which are filled by personal contact between attending physicians
and residents. That is how I achieved my first position. This does not
account for doctors who open their own offices.

If I won the lottery I would still work as a podiatrist. In California half
of the podiatrists can't wait to retire. This has more to do with who you
are and why you became a doctor. If it is about money you will never be
happy.

Orthopods are not much of a problem as they were in the past. Some parts of
the country orthopods and podiatrists work side by side comfortably. Some
parts like in New York their are turf battles. The average podiatrist with
10 years and board certification in surgery can make $ 135,000+ per year.
A good podiatrist will earn more than a general practicioner MD. But you
have to be a good surgeon. I average 4-5 surgeries a week. About 8 hours.
I am not typical. My average surgery time is 2 hours due to the complexity
of the type of cases I do. The national average is about 50 minutes and 4
cases a week.. Best regards, and good luck.
 
Thanks for your email. I was pleased to receive your request for
information and I'll be happy to answer your questions.

With regard to the job market there is really no central place for job
placement. That being said, there are always positions available. The
best way to find any job opportunities is introduce yourself to the
managing physicians in the area in which you wish to practice. Get
yourself good training and get licensed and the job offers will be
there. Compensation certainly is another issue and is dependent upon
training. A one year residency trained physician can expect to
$60,000.00 the first year, add $10,000.00 to $15,000.00 more for a
physician with a 2 or 3 year surgically trained resident + % bonuses
based on productivity.

I have been in practice since 1970 and love what I do and would do it
again in a heartbeat. I spend 2 full days in surgery and I'm on staff
of 10 valley hospitals. In fact I'm a principle in a recently opened
orthopedic hospital. I have also been the residency director of a local
hospital where we train 2nd year residents in advanced surgical
procedures. The orthopedic community is one of my largest referral
bases.

I would be happy the call and talk to you directly and will do so if
you email me your phone #. Also, if you are so inclined, you are more
than welcome to fly out and spend a day in surgery with. You'll see
procedures first hand
and be able to ask me any questions and expect to get direct answers.
You will also be able to ask our current residents any questions which
should be important to you as they are closer to you in age and have
just gone through what you are contemplating.
 
You have numerous questions, which basically show me your panicing over nothing. I am a surgically trained Podiatrist who has a solo practice in the deep south, I have been in practice for over 26 years and have done quite well for myself.... I am board certified in both surgery and pain management. If all you are concerned with is money there are a lot of easier ways to make a buck, but if you are not scared of work and like the concept of helping to make a difference in someones life Podiatry can be very rewarding. Now as to your questions. NO BODY offers $70 - $100 K to anybody the first year out I don't care what residency they have attended!!! That does not mean you can not make six figures, for most of us that hire recent grads we offer a fixed salary and when you paid for your salary, you can earn a percentage of the collected gross billing. Which if the kid has any ability can mean a very nice piece of money (if they are willing to hussle). I am now willing to give you a little practice management ( no charge ). If there is a candy store on one corner and a candy store on the opposite corner , it is stupid to open a candy store in the middle of the block, that sounds logical but why then does 80% of all graduates of podiatry school open a practice withing a 100 mile radius of the school. If you look at the demographics you will find the majority of doctors in the northeast ( including Penn) , Chicago, Ohio or Florida....most doctors are not good business men and to suceed it helps to understand business no matter what your product. Podiatry is what you make of it, and it can support you very well but it is not a, "bypass medical school and still collect $200 by passing go", it takes effort both to get through school, get through post graduate training and then first get into the business and create a living for yourself. NO BODY WILL HAND YOU MONEY just for graduating and finishing a residency. In the real world you have to work for a living!!!!!!!
 
I will try to post a few more later.

oncogene
 
You have numerous questions, which basically show me your panicing over nothing. I am a surgically trained Podiatrist who has a solo practice in the deep south, I have been in practice for over 26 years and have done quite well for myself.... I am board certified in both surgery and pain management. If all you are concerned with is money there are a lot of easier ways to make a buck, but if you are not scared of work and like the concept of helping to make a difference in someones life Podiatry can be very rewarding. Now as to your questions. NO BODY offers $70 - $100 K to anybody the first year out I don't care what residency they have attended!!! That does not mean you can not make six figures, for most of us that hire recent grads we offer a fixed salary and when you paid for your salary, you can earn a percentage of the collected gross billing. Which if the kid has any ability can mean a very nice piece of money (if they are willing to hussle). I am now willing to give you a little practice management ( no charge ). If there is a candy store on one corner and a candy store on the opposite corner , it is stupid to open a candy store in the middle of the block, that sounds logical but why then does 80% of all graduates of podiatry school open a practice withing a 100 mile radius of the school. If you look at the demographics you will find the majority of doctors in the northeast ( including Penn) , Chicago, Ohio or Florida....most doctors are not good business men and to suceed it helps to understand business no matter what your product. Podiatry is what you make of it, and it can support you very well but it is not a, "bypass medical school and still collect $200 by passing go", it takes effort both to get through school, get through post graduate training and then first get into the business and create a living for yourself. NO BODY WILL HAND YOU MONEY just for graduating and finishing a residency. In the real world you have to work for a living!!!!!!!

Oncogene, you have posted some great letters that would be a valuable resource for the Pre Podiatry students. I just wanted to quickly comment about the practice management advice that the Podiatrist gave you. He / She is correct about setting up shop near the Podiatry school. However, he / she also neglected to mention why some of the Podiatrists stay where they are now. One of the reason would be DPMs that have families and would be difficult for them to relocate the family into a new environement, where they know no one or don't have any family there. Another reason would be that each of us have specific preferences as to where we want to live. For example, I was born and rasied in the Northeast US. I can not imagine myself living or raising my family in the midwest. For me specifically, another major reason would be that I would not venture out too much away from the major metropolitan area due to racism or whatever prejudice factors. When I was externing in the midwest, I had a patient come to me and told me that she prefers not to be treated by a non Christian. Since I am neither Caucasian or African American, she assumed that I am a non Christian. I have a colleague of mine who is Indian and had moved down to Birmingham, Alabama for a great job offer. Due to the amount of racism that he dealt with down there, he quit his position in Alabama and moved back to California. So my point is that there are reasons why certain DPMs will set up shop in areas that are so called "saturated".
 
Thanks for the insight everyone...those emails from practicing doctors in various parts of the country offered some great information regarding the realities of our profession. I'm just as motivated as ever to start podiatry school and look forward to more interesting discussions on this forum. Thanks!
 
Many people say that most graduating pods go back to practice where they went to school. Im not sure this is really the case. It would seem that most would stay near their residency if anything. In a survey done by the APMA Young Members Association, it showed that only 5 percent of graduates practice in the same city as the school they attended, 13 percent in the same city as residency. Nearly 68 percent of pods who graduated within the last 5 years of this survey (done in 2005) practice over 100 miles from their school, 58 percent 100 miles of residency. Just a thought.
 
Many people say that most graduating pods go back to practice where they went to school. Im not sure this is really the case. It would seem that most would stay near their residency if anything. In a survey done by the APMA Young Members Association, it showed that only 5 percent of graduates practice in the same city as the school they attended, 13 percent in the same city as residency. Nearly 68 percent of pods who graduated within the last 5 years of this survey (done in 2005) practice over 100 miles from their school, 58 percent 100 miles of residency. Just a thought.

Ya, I would agree that most would stay closer to the regoin of residency than to their respective schools. It is well known that most pods obtain their positions through word of mouth associations with the different residency programs. I would see this as regoinal rather than local.
 
Great post, thanks for sharing those emails. It is really interesting to hear about different work situations and what their schedules are like.
 
Many people say that most graduating pods go back to practice where they went to school. Im not sure this is really the case. It would seem that most would stay near their residency if anything. In a survey done by the APMA Young Members Association, it showed that only 5 percent of graduates practice in the same city as the school they attended, 13 percent in the same city as residency. Nearly 68 percent of pods who graduated within the last 5 years of this survey (done in 2005) practice over 100 miles from their school, 58 percent 100 miles of residency. Just a thought.

I wonder how many practice in their hometown
 
I was just thinking about starting your own practice. I always thought that I would like to start my own practice, but I see now that it is much more common to join a group of some sort. Is it really hard to start your own practice? I guess it varies quite a bit on how long it takes to get up and running and making a decent living. Does anyone know of any stories of pods and how long it took for them to be making lets say on average how much you would make if you would have joined a group or other practice?
 
either way, its not a bad outlook.
 
This would probably be better placed in the physician forum. I think they even have a couple threads that talk about salary.
 
Top