Increasing Clout of Psychology Degrees

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Yes, having a master's degree is such a low bar :p. actually, I agree with the idea that mid-level education is highly variable. It IS being addressed via multiple levels through current legislation and commercial insurance requirements. Such as Tricare requiring LPCs to graduate from an accredited program etc. I believe this is also a problem with education as a whole (degree inflation) I directly see this as a mid-level. if you'd like more ideas on how to effectively advocate for higher standards in mid-level education, I can give you some pointers :)

But!!!! I said all that to basically say as a mid-level we deal with some of the same issues of accreditation, quality, perception of the public that PhD levels do. Because part of the problem is how mental health is viewed as a whole. Not just how crappy your mid-levels are lol. We have the same problem with low-ball salaries etc.

Remember most of your midlevels aren't even technically part of the field of psychology. CACREP, COMAFTE, and ASWB oversee the majority of "your" midlevels. As psychology PhDs you are really going to have to make solid arguments on how separate professions (though they overlap in scope) are bringing down your practice and profession.

As a last bomb to throw out there as I leave, insurance companies are the real evil. As someone who worked in the industry, this really is a source of the problem.
I definitely didn't want to disrespect you or any of the other regular posters here who are going through accredited programs. Some of the best therapists that I have worked with in the past have MAs or MSWs. I was referring to the others that I have worked with who had online degrees and supervised hours of experience that were completely bogus. In other words, yes we have quality control issues in psychology, but in the states where I have been licensed, being a licensed psychologist is still a significant accomplishment and it means something to other professionals and the public.

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Are you talking about sites specifically in schools or sites that take school psych students?

I'm talking about sites specifically in schools. A decent number of non-school based sites accept school psych students, however I'm interested in school-based sites. I think it's a real problem that school psych doesn't place much emphasis on getting more school-based sites to get APA accredited and thus, set a standard for quality internships. :/
 
I definitely didn't want to disrespect you or any of the other regular posters here who are going through accredited programs. Some of the best therapists that I have worked with in the past have MAs or MSWs. I was referring to the others that I have worked with who had online degrees and supervised hours of experience that were completely bogus. In other words, yes we have quality control issues in psychology, but in the states where I have been licensed, being a licensed psychologist is still a significant accomplishment and it means something to other professionals and the public.

Oh I know you didn't mean me! I am far too valuable to this board for you to mean me! *big grin* I was just originally kinda puzzled at the OPs original suggestion. It seems to me that he did indirectly suggest that psych mid-levels were bringing down the profession by suggesting that all non-research psychology MA's be cut out. Or that's at least how I would interpret the suggestion to do away with all counseling psych master's degrees. And then for smalltown to suggest how LOW the bar is for most midlevels. I don't think your statement is true stastically speaking haha. Only half the states don't require some type of school accreditation for licensure, so I'd totally be happy if Smalltown changed his statement to say, "Do you know how low the bar is for 50% of the midlevels?" That's probably not even correct because all MSW programs are accredited. (I hope you know I'm being a total goofball here.)

I couldn't find exact numbers, but CACREP accreditation is required for licensure in over half the states. But if (super if) I remember where Smalltown is, it's not required in your state, or mine for that matter, and that's part of the reason why I opted for an MSW. BUT don't forget Capella is CACREP accredited and available in all 50 states!!!!!
 
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Where is this frustration coming from? I know how you feel, because at my hospital, I constantly have doctors belittling the psychology field. Yet, I've learned to ignore them, let them parade on their high horse.

BACKGROUND
My Associates degree is in Fine Arts (drawing).

My Undergrad degree says Philosophy and I must explain why. After transferring my General Education credits to my university , I decided to be a Philosophy/Psychology double major. Spring Semester of my Junior year I failed a biology class by 2 points. This class was a requirement for my Psychology major. As a result my excellent guidance counselor pulled some strings and converted me to a Philosophy major (going into my senior year). If you look at my transcript, all of my classes were in each field. As a result my Bachelors degree is in Philosophy.

Compared to the other majors at my undergrad university, the psychology department was the most popular major, yet the most archaic. The dual degree option wasn't available, the cool internships weren't available and all of the "weeding out classes" were required for psychology majors (because it's my universities most popular major since 1987). I was told by my guidance counselor that roughly 20% of the students that chose psychology as a major graduate with that degree.

The two main reasons were :
1. A psychology degree is worthless at any level beneath a PhD. Many parents, friends and family members alert the student to this reality. You can't make instant money with it (unlike education, engineering or a bachelors in social work).
2. My former biology professor fails 56% of her class every semester since she started the department in 1956. Granted her class is always 300-458 students. Therefore, my previous university is very aware of her horrible reputation. Yet she maintains her job because she's the department head/ founder.

My Masters degree is in clinical counseling. The interview board was surprised that a philosophy degree/ Art degree holder would be interested in counseling, but once they reviewed my transcript (they understood why). Therefore my accreditation was in CACREP for my Masters in Counseling. I also got a chance to start using Art Therapy :)

Now I'm in a Social Psychology PhD program. It isn't my first choice, I wanted Clinical Psychology. All of my current electives are within the clinical psychology branch. Even the lab I'm a part of is in the clinical psychology branch (my cohorts call me Judas every change they get, because I'm not staying loyal to the social psychology family). Even my advisor isn't to happy with me being in a lab that's outside her jurisdiction. Luckily the state I live in doesn't differentiate the Psychology specialties (when I'm done, my business cards will say Psychologist, not Social Psychologist).

BACK TO THE TOPIC
I gave you this background so that you can see where I'm coming from.

At the hospital where I conduct my internships, many of the doctors talk down to me when they find out I'm their doing Art Therapy and/ or I'm a Psychology student. They don't see it as a real science. The doctors that know me well and are supportive of me, openly tell me that even with a PhD , most hospitals have no need for psychologists. He tells me this because I'm very open about wanting to work at my internship site after I graduate (in what seems like 10,000 years). I see 15-31 patients per day, many of them the Psychiatrists off-load on me. Yet they still don't see the value of psychology. I have many compliments on discharge survey's about my Art Therapy or traditional "talk" therapy and yet many doctors still don't see the value. As a result I hang around the LCSW's and nurses at the hospital because they are more down to earth.

I understand why you want the profession to gain more respect in the eyes of the public. The APA has no motivation to increase the marketability of the field. Psychology is considered an Allied Health field, but, the APA isn't lobbying hard to make it a law in all 50 states. The insurance companies rape us every change they get when it comes to billing for our services (again, the APA does nothing about this). We fight amongst ourselves all the time, because clinical psychology graduates/students know that they get the larger piece of the pie (when compared to the other branches). In my own cohort my dissertation focuses on counseling within the African American community. It is seen as clinical psychology more than social psychology (I will admit it's an attempt to merge both). My social psychology advisers, and others within the branch, wish I did something more social psychological (like the effect of positive thinking). In order to get the data for this, I have to be within the clinical psychology lab, yet my own social psychology cohorts forget the "social" aspect of what they are doing.

Their is a lot of in-fighting amongst ourselves in the real world. It shouldn't be like this, because it makes us look more divided. I've had plenty of patients that have a negative perception of psychologists. They assume all of us "hold hands and sing around a camp fire". Yet for a Psychiatrists, they feel that they will get better treatment. Our PxP movement might help increase our usefulness within the medical field.

I'm so sorry for writing such a long post. I've only had 3 hours of sleep and I only have $20 to my name (and I'm hungry).
 
I would consider changing the wording above. Insurance companies "rape" no one. No one forces anyone to take insurance. Managed care is a business model of health care services. You may not agree with that model, but it certainly doesn’t mean they are proverbialing "raping" anyone.

I am also a bit confused by your logic here. You lament the devaluation of psychological services by the healthcare/medical hierarchy, but then admit you make no attempt to engage them (e.g., " I have many compliments on discharge survey's about my Art Therapy or traditional "talk" therapy and yet many doctors still don't see the value. I hang around the LCSW's and nurses at the hospital because they are more down to earth."). You make no allies by sitting in your cillo cavorting only with those who hold the same opinions as you do.
 
Educating the public using the Internet, and TV might work in increasing the respect. Many TV shows and YouTube channels about the life of medical students and law students have this effect. People that casually watch theses shows (Dr.Phil for example), are being entertained and educated about that profession.
 
Where is this frustration coming from? I know how you feel, because at my hospital, I constantly have doctors belittling the psychology field. Yet, I've learned to ignore them, let them parade on their high horse.

At the hospital where I conduct my internships, many of the doctors talk down to me when they find out I'm their doing Art Therapy and/ or I'm a Psychology student. They don't see it as a real science. The doctors that know me well and are supportive of me, openly tell me that even with a PhD , most hospitals have no need for psychologists. He tells me this because I'm very open about wanting to work at my internship site after I graduate (in what seems like 10,000 years). I see 15-31 patients per day, many of them the Psychiatrists off-load on me. Yet they still don't see the value of psychology. I have many compliments on discharge survey's about my Art Therapy or traditional "talk" therapy and yet many doctors still don't see the value. As a result I hang around the LCSW's and nurses at the hospital because they are more down to earth.
I'm so sorry for writing such a long post. I've only had 3 hours of sleep and I only have $20 to my name (and I'm hungry).
I work at a hospital and the doctors here respect the science and practice of psychology. I have had conversations with them where I explain the neuroscience that underlies "talk therapy". That helps. I also produce results. When patients change, the doctors see that.

I also have mixed feelings about art therapy myself and that might be some of the resistance that you run into. Many of my patients use different forms of expression and I encourage that including music, painting, drawing, poetry, writing even dance. I just worry when too much emphasis is placed on any one tool.
 
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I work at a hospital and the doctors here respect the science and practice of psychology. I have had conversations with them where I explain the neuroscience that underlies "talk therapy". That helps. I also produce results. When patients change, the doctors see that.

I also have mixed feelings about art therapy myself and that might be some of the resistance that you run into. Many of my patients use different forms of expression and I encourage that including music, painting, drawing, poetry, writing even dance. I just worry when too much emphasis is placed on any one tool.
I do the talk therapy as well. Some of my geriatric patients (and children), enjoy the Art Therapy (especially women). It is shocking how many elderly patients have grand-children.

The pediatric doctors and the doctors that specialize in tumors (I forgot their name, I think it's oncologist), make up the bulk of my requests for Art Therapy. If I'm not on the pediatric or cancer center, I am on the neurology floor (with psychiatrists, LCSW's and neurologists). I only offer it to a patient that doesn't want to talk or a patient that's had the "run around" (as one patient stated), I offer something different.
 
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