International vs American Veterinary Schools - Discrimination?

[veridianbunny]

With all the great news of acceptances flooding about, it is no wonder why many are so very proud of themselves for achieving their, in some cases, life-long dreams.

But is there something to be said about an international vet student over an American student? Are the American schools harder to get into (is it because of more localized competition?), or is there some legitimate reason American vet students tend to look down upon those accepted into an international school (do they at all)?

I am writing this post because of some of my extended family's response to my acceptance into an international vet school. While I am waiting to hear from several US schools (and praying to be accepted), my family treats the international school as if it is not even a legitimate option, with little to no excitement. No matter how much I explain the AVMA accreditation and the prestige of the university (or even my overall excitement over being accepted my first application cycle), all my family sees is that it is not my IS school, let alone one in the USA.

So I ask in the forums: is there some sort of discrimination between veterinary schools out there? Should I feel like I am second rate because I was rejected by one school (and possibly more to come) in the states, and that international schools have lower standards? Does anyone else question themselves like I have been?


ps - these forums are a Godsend and addiction to pre-vetters

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[bovinus]

Disclaimer: I'm not sure what educational degrees your parents hold or how familiar they are with the system, but I am going to assume that you are better informed with regard to ins and outs of veterinary school and the application process.

In hopes of not sounding too preachy...most, if not all, of us want the approval of our parents/family. It is, however, important to remember that they are people, first, and our parents, second. Does that make sense? We have a tendency to put, maybe too much, stock into what they say and believe. It is quite common for us to think that they know what is best for us, or even know us better than we know ourselves.

Although I believe most parents have the best of intentions, they are people and sometimes act selfishly whether they are aware of this or not. It is quite possible that they are not excited about your acceptances abroad because they would like to keep you closer to home. Perhaps they are very concerned about finances during these economic times and are excited only about your in-state school for that reason. Their reasons for not being excited may have a lot more to do with them and their insecurities rather than you.

No matter how hard you try, you may not get the approval from your parents/family that you are looking for, so be assured that you will get the support you are looking for from the SDN community! I want to let you know that international schools are very well respected, and certainly have my respect. Also, when you come back into the labor force in the US (if you don't choose to stay abroad), you may have a leg-up over graduates that have attended US schools because you have had a more unique and interesting set of experiences that you can share and draw upon.

Remember that life is multi-dimensional. Although you are going to veterinary school, other aspects of your life will move forward as well. Getting an international experience is hugely valuable in developing other aspects of yourself - independence, worldliness, etc.

I guess what I'm trying to say, is that I am sure your parents love you and have the best of intentions, but they do not necessarily always know what is best for you, and sometimes you have to move forward without their blessing. Be proud of yourself for not being afraid to go abroad to follow your dreams! You will get an awesome education in more ways than one if you decide to go to school internationally.

If you can't already tell, I have had to wrastle with the opinions of my family on occasion, as well.

I hope that helps...

To be the devil’s advocate, it is important to think about your finances and how much debt you are comfortable incurring…

 

[justinpaws]

I'm 99.9999% sure that my family's going to be the same way (I really want to go to Edinburgh, I don't even think I'm going to apply anywhere else, except for Glasgow haha). They are all about "big name" schools...if they haven't heard of someone's university, they basically assume that it's an inferior school that produces extremely inferior students.

To be honest with your question, there are always some people (including vets) who think international schools are inferior. I know a vet who keeps criticizing the UK schools and saying to me, "Aren't those schools REALLY BAD?" And that the Caribbean schools are also "really bad" because "No one there ever studies, they just go to the beach all day." I am always pretty annoyed when I hear that. But I'll tell you this now, I work in a very expensive hospital with top equipment and top doctors, and we do have an excellent vet who spent half her education at a Caribbean school and the other half at a US one (she liked the international experience far better). So it doesn't seem to have hindered her chances, and more importantly, her abilities, as a vet.

Mostly I agree with Bovinus - going international, whether it's a brief study-abroad program or a full degree education, has been what my friends have called "the best thing they've ever done with their life." They say it really does change your perspective on things and opens you up. Plus, once you're at school and having the time of your life, your parents won't be around to nag at you about having picked what they consider to be an inferior school. And once you become a vet...well, then it really won't matter.

 

[California1]

I agree with justinpaws and bovinus

I believe you can get a unique set of experiences by going international. Not just in your veterinary education but in your LIFE education! Go out and see the world!

 

[veridianbunny]

I agree with everyone on the facts that international studies are a great prespective building, chance-of-a-lifetime, and expensive option. Thanks for some mighty helpful insight.

I might have come off a little differently than I originally meant to in my OP, my parents are great supporters of mine and are proud of me no matter where I choose to go. It is, however, extended family and outside friends that are the skeptics - still hurts though.

justinpaws - I have also heard vets and prospective students alike "dis" Caribbean schools. One of the vet students I have worked with at a hospital loves the Caribbean school she attends but has extensive and expensive entrance/aptitude tests to allow her to work in the US -- big turn off for any prospective vet student, no?

bovinus - I definitely agree that cost is a very important thing for a student to consider, regardless of future occupation. Which is why I hope my IS school hurries their butts up and send out information.

Thanks a bunch folks, I do feel like no matter where you are accepted you should be proud - after all veterinary school is a very competitive and tough to prepare for no matter where you go.

 

[shortnsweet]

Also, as a plug for the international schools...i'm sure you have done your research...but even just talking to the people who go to the UK schools, you can see that they will be GREAT doctors. They have a sound education under their belt, and even some experiences that state schools just don't have. They are dedicated and passionate, and overall , great people.

I have also received criticism from extended family, but you just have to point out to them that..1) these schools are accredited for a reason 2) you are going to have a FANTASTIC abroad experience and 3) you are just as likely to be successful there as you would be here. 95% of graduates at these schools pass their state exams the first try...that means something. And to boot, you will be licensed in all of Europe, the UK, and the US!!!

 

[david594]

justinpaws - I have also heard vets and prospective students alike "dis" Caribbean schools. One of the vet students I have worked with at a hospital loves the Caribbean school she attends but has extensive and expensive entrance/aptitude tests to allow her to work in the US -- big turn off for any prospective vet student, no?

Caribbean schools are not AVMA accredited. That is why people "dis" them. This is why their graduates have to take the big expensive test.

 

[CombatVeteranVeterinarian]

Also, as a plug for the international schools...i'm sure you have done your research...but even just talking to the people who go to the UK schools, you can see that they will be GREAT doctors. They have a sound education under their belt, and even some experiences that state schools just don't have. They are dedicated and passionate, and overall , great people.

I have also received criticism from extended family, but you just have to point out to them that..1) these schools are accredited for a reason 2) you are going to have a FANTASTIC abroad experience and 3) you are just as likely to be successful there as you would be here. 95% of graduates at these schools pass their state exams the first try...that means something. And to boot, you will be licensed in all of Europe, the UK, and the US!!!

Schools in England are AVMA accredited?

 

[DVMDream]

Schools in England are AVMA accredited?

Yes, many of the schools in the UK and England are AVMA accredited.

 

[Innerspeaker]

Caribbean schools are not AVMA accredited. That is why people "dis" them. This is why their graduates have to take the big expensive test.

I thought Ross and SGU were accredited.

 

[DVMDream]

I thought Ross and SGU were accredited.

They are. That post was made 6 years ago, when they were not accredited.

 

[KCgophervet]

I thought Ross and SGU were accredited.

They are. See @Nalikti 's post above about the aged-ness of this thread

 

[DVMDream]

They are. See @Nalikti 's post above about the aged-ness of this thread

I win!

 

[KCgophervet]

I win!

Seconds too late! Just my luck

 

[CombatVeteranVeterinarian]

Thanks guys! Didn't realize this post was 6 years ago!

 

[Innerspeaker]

My BAD! LOL

 

[CombatVeteranVeterinarian]

So by graduating from any accredited university you are awarded either a DVM or a VMD, is that correct?

 

[DVMDream]

So by graduating from any accredited university you are awarded either a DVM or a VMD, is that correct?

No.

The UK schools award a BVM&S or "Bachelor of Veterinary Medicine and Surgery" and you are also given the MRCVS "Member of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons". It is the exact same equivalent of a DVM/VMD, just different letters.

 

[StartingoverVet]

No.

The UK schools award a BVM&S or "Bachelor of Veterinary Medicine and Surgery" and you are also given the MRCVS "Member of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons". It is the exact same equivalent of a DVM/VMD, just different letters.

If Penn had a UK branch it would award an M&SVB

 

[LetItSnow]

So by graduating from any accredited university you are awarded either a DVM or a VMD, is that correct?

You shouldn't really think of the degree and accreditation as being related (necessarily). Any university can grant a degree (DVM, VMD, BVS, BVSc, BVMS, BVM, ....). Accreditation status as far as the U.S. goes is related to satisfying requirements to sit for National and State boards, as well as opening up access to federal student loans, by demonstrating that the curriculum meets certain standards. There are all sorts of schools around the world awarding veterinary degrees, though.

So, all accredited universities will award you a professional veterinary degree, but not all professional veterinary degrees come from accredited universities. Have fun parsing that.

 

[LetItSnow]

No.

The UK schools award a BVM&S or "Bachelor of Veterinary Medicine and Surgery" and you are also given the MRCVS "Member of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons". It is the exact same equivalent of a DVM/VMD, just different letters.

They also give a BVSc, right? I thought we had a resident from UK at UMN that was a BVSc, but maybe she had some other degree.

 

[DVMDream]

They also give a BVSc, right? I thought we had a resident from UK at UMN that was a BVSc, but maybe she had some other degree.

Now that you mention that, I do know a resident from a UK school with a BVSc, I'm not exactly sure where that is coming from.

 

[503372]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bachelor_of_Veterinary_Science

...because they all like to be different.

 

[CombatVeteranVeterinarian]

Thanks guys! I appreciate it!

 

[shortnsweet]

Now that you mention that, I do know a resident from a UK school with a BVSc, I'm not exactly sure where that is coming from.

It depends on the school you go to.
RVC is BVetMed
Glasgow is BVMS
Dick vet is BVM&S
etc.....

 

[sdf22]

Hi guys! I am having a lot of trouble deciding between PennVet and the University of Edinburgh for veterinary school. Does anyone have any pro/cons list of each school? I really need help making the decision. On some level Edinburgh is attractive to me because it is a new exciting place as I am from the suburbs of PA, but Penn has so much prestige and I just feel like the program offers plenty of opportunity for students. Any help comparing the two programs would be much appreciated!

 

[KCgophervet]

Hi guys! I am having a lot of trouble deciding between PennVet and the University of Edinburgh for veterinary school. Does anyone have any pro/cons list of each school? I really need help making the decision. On some level Edinburgh is attractive to me because it is a new exciting place as I am from the suburbs of PA, but Penn has so much prestige and I just feel like the program offers plenty of opportunity for students. Any help comparing the two programs would be much appreciated!

The bolded is not a good reason. All vet schools have "prestige" associated with them in their geographic location. Not so much elsewhere. Like, if my parents had to choose between a Penn vet and a UMN vet they'd probably say who the hell cares and just go to whichever. If I had to pick I'd probably go to the UMN grad cuz I may know them or at least have common experiences.

Also check the Factors for Vet Schools (or whatever it's called) thread pinned at the top of the Pre-vet forum and do a search in there. Should be helpful.

Finally, cost should be your deciding factor unless the price tags are incredibly similar. (don't forget to include travel budget, flights over the pond aren't the cheapest thing)

 

[LetItSnow]

Agreed. I hear "prestige" and I roll my eyes. You know who Penn has prestige with? People who went to UPenn. Same as every other school.

Cornell and UCD probably have actual prestige (though frankly I don't think it is deserved). A few schools I won't name have notoriety (equally undeserved). The rest of us are all in one big pile. Prestige is a dumb factor for choosing a vet school.

 

[Doktor Timo]

Bear in mind, if you go to Penn you'll probably be surrounded by Philadelphia sports fans. A fate worse than death.

 

[wheelin2vetmed]

I read the title a lot differently.

RVC will discriminate and pull your application if you have certain physical/mental disabilities, they're stuck in the stone age.

Have zero respect for that ****ing institution.