Internship interviews

[affectiveH3art]

Since I am more likely than not going to apply for internship next year, I am curious about the process. For those who have interviewed possible candidates: what were the major red flags that put candidates in the reject pile? What were major slip ups that you saw on CVs or on essays? Anything that was totally odd, absurd, or just careless?

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[AcronymAllergy]

In general, the same types of things that could be red flags in grad school interviews--an interpersonal presentation that comes across as defensive, arrogant, resistant to feedback, generally unprofessional, or dismissive; stark lack of fit between career goals/interests and the site's training opportunities and focus; blatant unenthusiasm; and misrepresentation of prior experiences (e.g., counting reports as integrated when they were not).

 

[futureapppsy2]

misrepresentation of prior experiences (e.g., counting reports as integrated when they were not).

How would sites ferret this out, just out of curiosity?

 

[WisNeuro]

How would sites ferret this out, just out of curiosity?

Like when someone lists that they have like 80 integrated reports, and lists 80 MMSE's and BDI's, but only like 5 WAIS'

 

[BuckeyeLove]

As pejorative as it may sound, Don't be a narcissistic, cluster b mess. If you're bragging about who you know and how well published you are to other applicants, just be wise that you are probably being heard elsewhere. And as I've said before, and it could just have been site specific, but there seemed to be an inherent gender bias. Dude's clothing was hardly ever brought up. This was not the case for the applicants that were women.

 

[WisNeuro]

As pejorative as it may sound, Don't be a narcissistic, cluster b mess. If you're bragging about who you know and how well published you are to other applicants, just be wise that you are probably being heard elsewhere. And as I've said before, and it could just have been site specific, but there seemed to be an inherent gender bias. Dude's clothing was hardly ever brought up. This was not the case for the applicants that were women.

I'd agree with the clothing thing, with a caveat though. The male applicants by and large only wear suits when I've done interviews, as where female applicants usually have a wider range of dress to choose from. More opportunities to rub someone the wrong way. I always tell my advisees, male and female, go with conservative and somewhat boring in your style.

 

[463951]

Since I am more likely than not going to apply for internship next year, I am curious about the process. For those who have interviewed possible candidates: what were the major red flags that put candidates in the reject pile? What were major slip ups that you saw on CVs or on essays? Anything that was totally odd, absurd, or just careless?

Gaps are always questioned on CVs. For the essays, you would be surprised at how many people reveal way too much about themselves in the autobiographical essay. Huge errors in reports are obviously not good (e.g., a person submits a report written on an adult, but it says WISC-4 all over the place). One reason a candidate would end up in the reject pile – the person is local and is not a good fit for the site at all, it's obvious that they will not (or can not) relocate. I have never seen any HORRIBLE letters of recommendation (e.g., I do not recommend this student under any circumstances), but I have seen some letters that were very brief and unenthusiastic – it's pretty obvious that the letter writer either: a) doesn't know the student very well, or b) does not have a very good opinion of the student but agreed to do the letter anyway. Make sure you ask your letter writers if they are comfortable writing you a strong letter of recommendation.

As pejorative as it may sound, Don't be a narcissistic, cluster b mess. If you're bragging about who you know and how well published you are to other applicants, just be wise that you are probably being heard elsewhere. And as I've said before, and it could just have been site specific, but there seemed to be an inherent gender bias. Dude's clothing was hardly ever brought up. This was not the case for the applicants that were women.

What sort of remarks have you heard about women's clothing? Clothing that is too revealing?

I have only participated on the other end of this process a couple of times, but I definitely saw a gender bias. I heard some remarks about the women applicants that were very catty. Like, "did you see her shoes, she has no fashion sense whatsoever," "she just seems too vanilla," or "she didn't say anything specific to make me think so, but she strikes me as the type that would not be open to feedback." Things like this weren't said about the men (or I just did not hear it). With the men that were ranked lower, there was a pretty clear cut reason (e.g., he doesn't have enough experience with adults, he did not seem enthusiastic about any of the rotations because he asked no questions). However, my experience is limited, so take this with a grain of salt.

 

[WisNeuro]

I have never seen any HORRIBLE letters of recommendation (e.g., I do not recommend this student under any circumstances), but I have seen some letters that are very brief and unenthusiastic –

What sort of remarks have you heard about women's clothing? Clothing that is too revealing?

I have only participated on the other end of this process a couple of times, but I definitely saw a gender bias. I heard some remarks about the women applicants that were very catty. Like, "did you see her shoes, she has no fashion sense whatsoever," "she just seems too vanilla," or "she didn't say anything specific to make me think so, but she strikes me as the type that would not be open to feedback." Things like this weren't said about the men (or I just did not hear it). With the men that were ranked lower, there was a pretty clear cut reason (e.g., he doesn't have enough experience with adults, he did not seem enthusiastic about any of the rotations because he asked no questions). However, my experience is limited, so take this with a grain of salt.

I saw a LOR once that said the student was "in the top 50% of students I have supervised." We thought that was hilarious. As to the cattiness issue regarding dress, I would say that there is a gender bias, but that it is usually by female faculty against female applicants. I can honestly say that I have never heard one of my male counterparts remarking about shoes or color choice of blouse when discussing interview applicants.

 

[463951]

I saw a LOR once that said the student was "in the top 50% of students I have supervised." We thought that was hilarious. As to the cattiness issue regarding dress, I would say that there is a gender bias, but that it is usually by female faculty against female applicants. I can honestly say that I have never heard one of my male counterparts remarking about shoes or color choice of blouse when discussing interview applicants.

Wow, that's pretty bad!

Same. I have never heard a male faculty member make a single remark (positive or negative) about anybody's clothes.

 

[WisNeuro]

Wow, that's pretty bad!

Agree. I have never heard a male faculty member make a single remark (positive or negative) about anybody's clothes.

'

Yeah, I can't even think of anytime I've remembered anyone's style of dress in internship interviews. I think the only thing that would stand out to me is if someone dressed way too casual (jeans) or was inappropriately/too revealingly dressed for a professional work environment. Everything else is mostly irrelevant.

 

[hamsterpants]

As some of this convo has now turned to appropriate internship attire, can anyone recommend a place for women to buy suits (either offline or online)? Of course, budget is a big factor but I wouldn't want to buy something that was poorly made and like to get a decent amount of wear out of an item. I'm short so sometimes I have a hard time buying things "off the rack". I know this has been discussed in previous years but was wondering if anyone has had any good finds recently. Thanks!

 

[ariagirlno1]

As some of this convo has now turned to appropriate internship attire, can anyone recommend a place for women to buy suits (either offline or online)? Of course, budget is a big factor but I wouldn't want to buy something that was poorly made and like to get a decent amount of wear out of an item. I'm short so sometimes I have a hard time buying things "off the rack". I know this has been discussed in previous years but was wondering if anyone has had any good finds recently. Thanks!

I've had good luck with Ann Taylor petites. I bought a suit for grad school interviews in 2011 and have worn it quite a bit since then. Going to get a new one from there for internship interviews in a month or so!

 

[cara susanna]

As some of this convo has now turned to appropriate internship attire, can anyone recommend a place for women to buy suits (either offline or online)? Of course, budget is a big factor but I wouldn't want to buy something that was poorly made and like to get a decent amount of wear out of an item. I'm short so sometimes I have a hard time buying things "off the rack". I know this has been discussed in previous years but was wondering if anyone has had any good finds recently. Thanks!

I got mine from the J Crew outlet. Had to get the pants hemmed though.

 

[ClinicalABA]

I'd agree with the clothing thing, with a caveat though. The male applicants by and large only wear suits when I've done interviews, as where female applicants usually have a wider range of dress to choose from. More opportunities to rub someone the wrong way. I always tell my advisees, male and female, go with conservative and somewhat boring in your style.

For a field that is supposedly science based, we seem to ignore the research related to interview bias when making decisions that effect ourselves. So much of the data obtained from interviews is irrelevant to how the candidate will perform. Thing is, by the time candidates get to the interview phase, there is a pretty good chance that they will do ok with the position- with no need for the interview. As a result, selection committees who put a lot of stake in interviews are going to be inadvertently reinforced for doing so. This is despite the fact that 100% of the interns who don't work out well we're chosen after being vetted in an interview.

Answering questions after flying cross country, sleeping in a strange place, eating differently, wearing uncomfortable clothing, and hanging out with a dozen others in a conference room is not a skill in any way related to being an intern. As a field, we still act as if it is.

 

[WisNeuro]

For a field that is supposedly science based, we seem to ignore the research related to interview bias when making decisions that effect ourselves. So much of the data obtained from interviews is irrelevant to how the candidate will perform. Thing is, by the time candidates get to the interview phase, there is a pretty good chance that they will do ok with the position- with no need for the interview. As a result, selection committees who put a lot of stake in interviews are going to be inadvertently reinforced for doing so. This is despite the fact that 100% of the interns who don't work out well we're chosen after being vetted in an interview.

Answering questions after flying cross country, sleeping in a strange place, eating differently, wearing uncomfortable clothing, and hanging out with a dozen others in a conference room is not a skill in any way related to being an intern. As a field, we still act as if it is.

Wholeheartedly agree. I've pretty much made up my mind after reading the application. The only thing the interview does is sink people with decent apps who happen to also have a raging cluster b profile.

 

[cara susanna]

For a field that is supposedly science based, we seem to ignore the research related to interview bias when making decisions that effect ourselves. So much of the data obtained from interviews is irrelevant to how the candidate will perform. Thing is, by the time candidates get to the interview phase, there is a pretty good chance that they will do ok with the position- with no need for the interview. As a result, selection committees who put a lot of stake in interviews are going to be inadvertently reinforced for doing so. This is despite the fact that 100% of the interns who don't work out well we're chosen after being vetted in an interview.

Answering questions after flying cross country, sleeping in a strange place, eating differently, wearing uncomfortable clothing, and hanging out with a dozen others in a conference room is not a skill in any way related to being an intern. As a field, we still act as if it is.

That's why a lot of sites do an open house instead.

 

[WisNeuro]

From a student's perspective though, I think the interviews made a HUGE difference in how I ranked my sites. There were a few sites that were great on paper, but after interviewing, it was clear that they were not a great fit.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

From a student's perspective though, I think the interviews made a HUGE difference in how I ranked my sites. There were a few sites that were great on paper, but after interviewing, it was clear that they were not a great fit.

Ditto for me, both @ internship and postdoc. For that reason alone, as an applicant, I'd want to keep interviews/open houses going.

 

[ClinicalABA]

From a student's perspective though, I think the interviews made a HUGE difference in how I ranked my sites. There were a few sites that were great on paper, but after interviewing, it was clear that they were not a great fit.

Definitely see the value there- as far as relates to candidates getting objective information about the program that may not be accurately/completely conveyed in the programs printed materials- things like physical plant issues, what the geographical location has to offer, etc. Remember, though, the "open house/interview days" are not typical- what you see going on is not always representative of what does/will go on. By the time you get an interview, the internship has likely decided that they want you and will want to impress you on internship day (though I did have one interview at a VA with "poor self-esteem" where they basically said "we know you don't really want to come here and we're just a back-up, so there's not much use in getting too detailed with our interview questions").

Also, as an applicant you should be aware of the potential biases you may have in making a decision about a program based on info obtained during an interview.

 

[ClinicalABA]

Wholeheartedly agree. I've pretty much made up my mind after reading the application. The only thing the interview does is sink people with decent apps who happen to also have a raging cluster b profile.

Anecdotally speaking, I'd have to say that I've encounter way more "Cluster B" types that did not show it in the interview day but went on to be rather difficult interns/employees/students (I can recall ~ 6 or so), than candidates who showed it in an interview (~1-2 that I can recall). That's one of the problems with non-systematic reviews of data kept in our heads- we ignore base rates and don't always remember or properly attribute our failures. I'm always amazed at people's ability to identify future problematic employees during interviews, but am shocked by how this ability only manifests itself in hindsight

 

[futureapppsy2]

That's why a lot of sites do an open house instead.

Some "open houses" are still evaluative, though.

 

[ClinicalABA]

Since I am more likely than not going to apply for internship next year, I am curious about the process. For those who have interviewed possible candidates: what were the major red flags that put candidates in the reject pile? What were major slip ups that you saw on CVs or on essays? Anything that was totally odd, absurd, or just careless?

Sorry for the earlier derail!

I was a faculty in an internship program where we tended to get a lot of applicants from a few different schools. They all tended to have the same faculty letters of reference, and often the letters were pretty similar and very positive. We did notice a pattern with some faculty where they would make subtle distinctions, like "she is in the top 5% of students I've ever worked with" while another candidate would be "in the top 10%."

Candidates with no experience with the different potential rotations were also a red flag (hopefully obviously!). Also, candidates who only had experience with one type of rotation (we did a full year major/minor placement model) were tricky, as it would invariably involve some heated discussions/bartering among the faculty ("he'd be great for my program, could you please consider him for a minor in your program, even though he has no experience with or interest in what you guys do over there")

We would also not consider students from the online/hybrid programs (Argosy's, etc.). There was also a bias in favor of Ph.D.s (Clinical and School Psych) over Psy.D.s (particularly those from professional schools with no dissertation requirement) and Counseling programs.

I was always surprised about the discussions regarding what people wore to the interview and how it might relate to their ability to do their job. It was and is my position that it's pretty easy to change the way an intern dresses (e.g. by simply describing to them the expectation for appropriate dress before they start), and those types of things have little relationship to the ability to perform the job. I spent at least 3-hours during my interview day at the internship I would eventually go to (and later work at as a faculty) with my fly unzipped! When my wife picked me up at then end of the day, she immediately noticed when I got into the car. I hadn't used the bathroom since lunchtime, and had several meetings in the afternoon.

 

[futureapppsy2]

We would also not consider students from the online/hybrid programs (Argosy's, etc.). There was also a bias in favor of Ph.D.s (Clinical and School Psych) over Psy.D.s (particularly those from professional schools with no dissertation requirement) and Counseling programs.

Argosy isn't online or hybrid. It's a sketchy FSPS chain, but it isn't online. Also, why the bias against Counseling Psych PhDs, just out of curiosity?

 

[ClinicalABA]

Argosy isn't online or hybrid. It's a sketchy FSPS chain, but it isn't online. Also, why the bias against Counseling Psych PhDs, just out of curiosity?

Thanks for the correction on the Argosy thing- I must've been thinking of the Cappellas of the world and just lumped in Argosy.

The bias wasn't necessarily against counseling programs per se, but more in favor of clinical and school Ph.D.s, which seemed to be more more relevantly trained. We actually didn't get a lot of applicants from counseling programs, so much of the bias could've been related to them just being different than what we were used to seeing in a successful candidate, as well as not being from one of our consistent "feeder" programs/mentors, who's students seemed to perform well at our sites.

 

[smalltownpsych]

I was always surprised about the discussions regarding what people wore to the interview and how it might relate to their ability to do their job. It was and is my position that it's pretty easy to change the way an intern dresses (e.g. by simply describing to them the expectation for appropriate dress before they start), and those types of things have little relationship to the ability to perform the job. I spent at least 3-hours during my interview day at the internship I would eventually go to (and later work at as a faculty) with my fly unzipped! When my wife picked me up at then end of the day, she immediately noticed when I got into the car. I hadn't used the bathroom since lunchtime, and had several meetings in the afternoon.

I wonder if anyone noticed. It is funny how we can agonize over some of the details of this process and then get the job even when we commit a major faux pax. My wife is always good at spotting those things for me too. The whole lettuce in the teeth is another good one.

 

[Sendtrees]

I am a woman, and it wouldn't have occurred to me not to wear a suit. In the world of internship interviewing, nobody would fault you for being "overdressed" for a site. Just do it. Since interviews occur in winter, I definitely thought a pants/boots combo was safer (ie more conservative) and easier (not having to carry around a pair of dress shoes while I slog around in winter boots and then awkwardly switch in the foyer, hoping nobody notices...). But the bottom line--wear a suit. Mine was gray with a lavender pinstripe that appeared like a dream, exactly how I wanted it, out of my mother's closet.

 

[cara susanna]

I am a woman, and it wouldn't have occurred to me not to wear a suit. In the world of internship interviewing, nobody would fault you for being "overdressed" for a site. Just do it. Since interviews occur in winter, I definitely thought a pants/boots combo was safer (ie more conservative) and easier (not having to carry around a pair of dress shoes while I slog around in winter boots and then awkwardly switch in the foyer, hoping nobody notices...). But the bottom line--wear a suit. Mine was gray with a lavender pinstripe that appeared like a dream, exactly how I wanted it, out of my mother's closet.

Unless a site specifically says to wear business casual.

 

[bmedclinic]

I mentioned this in another thread some years ago... wanted to add it in, even though the conversation has turned somewhat.
I still recall interviews for my doctoral program some years ago. 2 people still stick out to me. One girl, who was in a DSW program, trying to get into our clinical program. She wore what (male and females, both, and both faculty and students) referred to as "hooker boots." I dont know that I'd call them that per se, but the name/ opinion by others was pejorative enough she was ruled out, literally for her attire on the spot.

Then there was the one guy (this was when I was interviewing to get in, not a already in the program) who didn't wear a suit. I think he wore a sweater and a tie? It still looked nice. Anyways, he showed up, saw all the guys wearing suits, and said "oh s***" when he got into the applicant room. I think, more than anything, his confidence sunk him (not knowing other factors, of course).

On internship applications, I dont recall any outliers. But I was sick the entire time, so I probably was too drugged up to remember. Seems like everyone at all my interviews (male and female) just wore suits.

 

[PhDToBe]

As some of this convo has now turned to appropriate internship attire, can anyone recommend a place for women to buy suits (either offline or online)? Of course, budget is a big factor but I wouldn't want to buy something that was poorly made and like to get a decent amount of wear out of an item. I'm short so sometimes I have a hard time buying things "off the rack". I know this has been discussed in previous years but was wondering if anyone has had any good finds recently. Thanks!

I got a suit at Kohl's several years ago...cheap but good enough.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Unless a site specifically says to wear business casual.

Personally, even in this situation, I might still wear a suit. Especially if I was traveling for multiple interviews and was already going to back it anyway. Then again, as a male, my "business casual" is usually a shirt and tie anyway, so might as well just add a jacket.

In general, I've never seen/heard of "overdressing" being an issue on interviews.