Internships & Residency

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Yeah I can definitely seeing it as being tough. However, I know a few unboarded zoo vets who have tons of publications from the zoos they're at now. I guess they sort of got grandfathered in if that makes sense. They entered the scene before being boarded was becoming more and more of an expectation for the bigger zoos. They could easily sit for boards at this point, but I know one said she knows she'd need to study for it (not that I assumed it'd be easy or anything, but it goes to show you that 20 years of experience won't guarantee test performance, lol).
i've heard study for that exam is absolutely brutal (though i suppose they all probably are) and that theres a pretty decent fail rate the first time :-/

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i've heard study for that exam is absolutely brutal (though i suppose they all probably are) and that theres a pretty decent fail rate the first time :-/
And the second....

It's a pretty scary thought. To have gone through 4-5 years of preparing and to not pass. I'm sure all boards are like that, though
 
All of my friends who want to do zoo have done at least two internships, usually one large, one small. My internmate from last year did food animal last year and is doing a zoo internship this year. And all of the zoo vets I worked with when I had a job at a zoo were boarded...and that was when I was back in undergrad. I don't think it is "shifting" that way...it's been that way.

I feel like a lot of these zoo / attraction facility type of jobs are part-time now, too. I mean, I know the MN Zoo has a full-time vet. But I think our other 'major' (it's not that big, but it's more kid-friendly) zoo - Como Zoo - doesn't have a full-time vet (at least, I'm pretty sure). We have places like the Mall of America aquarium ... no full-time vet.
 
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i've heard study for that exam is absolutely brutal (though i suppose they all probably are) and that theres a pretty decent fail rate the first time :-/

And the second....

It's a pretty scary thought. To have gone through 4-5 years of preparing and to not pass. I'm sure all boards are like that, though

Yeeeep. Zoo, path, and lab animal are the worst offenders. Our first time pass rate is about 40-45% (and you "only" need to get above a 60% in each of 4 sections to pass).

Fail? Too bad, you need to wait a whole extra year and hope you can make ends meet or get a job that doesn't require boards until then. I know some people that took several years *after* residency to fully pass.

That exam was the most brutal thing I have ever done. It was two years ago and I actually still have nightmares about it sometimes.
 
Yeeeep. Zoo, path, and lab animal are the worst offenders. Our first time pass rate is about 40-45% (and you "only" need to get above a 60% in each of 4 sections to pass).

Fail? Too bad, you need to wait a whole extra year and hope you can make ends meet or get a job that doesn't require boards until then. I know some people that took several years *after* residency to fully pass.

That exam was the most brutal thing I have ever done. It was two years ago and I actually still have nightmares about it sometimes.
You did path, correct? In general, you just have to study for several years to prepare?
 
You did path, correct? In general, you just have to study for several years to prepare?

Yep. You generally spend your first year just holding your head above water in terms of the residency itself. During second year you start getting things organized (the amount of material is massive), and in third year is when the hardcore studying really begins.

There are 4 parts that cover 3 days: Gross Pathology, Microscopic Pathology, Veterinary Pathology, and General Pathology. Gross is where they will show you images of lesions (any species, any disease, any organ - all you get told is "tissue from a dog/cat/monkey/pig/whatever") and you have to be able to diagnose it on sight and answer any follow-up questions they have - you get about 60 sec per image. Microscopic is a set of 20 slides and you have 13min per slide to fully describe all the findings and answer followup qs - so about 4.5 hours of frantic writing. Vet Path is multiple choice and covers all sorts of pathogenesis related questions (from small animal, large animal, clinical path, and then you can choose either zoo or lab animal for the last section) as well as textbooks and ~3 years of the most recent literature in the field from a variety of journals. Gen Path is the one everyone hates the most, it is cellular biology, biochemistry, physiology, etc.

They have recently altered the exam format slightly so that Gen Path is taken at the end of first year as opposed to everything at the end - sort of a qualifying exam in a way. It makes a lot of sense that way to me since it is less specific than the other parts of the exam and covers more foundational stuff.

AND I NEVER HAVE TO TAKE THAT **** AGAIN. :vomit::vomit::vomit: Thank God. It was traumatizing as hell. I don't think I ever cried so much over the course of 3 days as I did then.
 
Yep. You generally spend your first year just holding your head above water in terms of the residency itself. During second year you start getting things organized (the amount of material is massive), and in third year is when the hardcore studying really begins.

There are 4 parts that cover 3 days: Gross Pathology, Microscopic Pathology, Veterinary Pathology, and General Pathology. Gross is where they will show you images of lesions (any species, any disease, any organ - all you get told is "tissue from a dog/cat/monkey/pig/whatever") and you have to be able to diagnose it on sight and answer any follow-up questions they have - you get about 60 sec per image. Microscopic is a set of 20 slides and you have 13min per slide to fully describe all the findings and answer followup qs - so about 4.5 hours of frantic writing. Vet Path is multiple choice and covers all sorts of pathogenesis related questions (from small animal, large animal, clinical path, and then you can choose either zoo or lab animal for the last section) as well as textbooks and ~3 years of the most recent literature in the field from a variety of journals. Gen Path is the one everyone hates the most, it is cellular biology, biochemistry, physiology, etc.

They have recently altered the exam format slightly so that Gen Path is taken at the end of first year as opposed to everything at the end - sort of a qualifying exam in a way. It makes a lot of sense that way to me since it is less specific than the other parts of the exam and covers more foundational stuff.

AND I NEVER HAVE TO TAKE THAT **** AGAIN. :vomit::vomit::vomit: Thank God. It was traumatizing as hell. I don't think I ever cried so much over the course of 3 days as I did then.
But it feels good now, right?








....right?
 
But it feels good now, right?








....right?


anigif_enhanced-9628-1436852841-2.gif
 
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Yep. You generally spend your first year just holding your head above water in terms of the residency itself. During second year you start getting things organized (the amount of material is massive), and in third year is when the hardcore studying really begins.

There are 4 parts that cover 3 days: Gross Pathology, Microscopic Pathology, Veterinary Pathology, and General Pathology. Gross is where they will show you images of lesions (any species, any disease, any organ - all you get told is "tissue from a dog/cat/monkey/pig/whatever") and you have to be able to diagnose it on sight and answer any follow-up questions they have - you get about 60 sec per image. Microscopic is a set of 20 slides and you have 13min per slide to fully describe all the findings and answer followup qs - so about 4.5 hours of frantic writing. Vet Path is multiple choice and covers all sorts of pathogenesis related questions (from small animal, large animal, clinical path, and then you can choose either zoo or lab animal for the last section) as well as textbooks and ~3 years of the most recent literature in the field from a variety of journals. Gen Path is the one everyone hates the most, it is cellular biology, biochemistry, physiology, etc.

They have recently altered the exam format slightly so that Gen Path is taken at the end of first year as opposed to everything at the end - sort of a qualifying exam in a way. It makes a lot of sense that way to me since it is less specific than the other parts of the exam and covers more foundational stuff.

AND I NEVER HAVE TO TAKE THAT **** AGAIN. :vomit::vomit::vomit: Thank God. It was traumatizing as hell. I don't think I ever cried so much over the course of 3 days as I did then.
Well. I feel like a massive baby for complaining about surgery boards... Also, I take back anything I said in the last two weeks about how much I ended up loving pathology and how I could totally see myself pursuing a residency in it.
 
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Funny partially related story: I was doing a lab animal fellowship this summer and one of the vets took her boards (she had just finished her residency and got hired on). She told us that she made flash cards for pretty much everything and packed them in her carry on to take to sit the exams. At the airport, they scanned her bag, and then forced her into a back room for a security check because they just saw stacks and stacks of papers that looked suspicious (like cash or something). They even started flipping through the note cards checking for who knows what.

After she passed she vowed to burn them.

I am not looking forward to boards in 5+ years...
 
Funny partially related story: I was doing a lab animal fellowship this summer and one of the vets took her boards (she had just finished her residency and got hired on). She told us that she made flash cards for pretty much everything and packed them in her carry on to take to sit the exams. At the airport, they scanned her bag, and then forced her into a back room for a security check because they just saw stacks and stacks of papers that looked suspicious (like cash or something). They even started flipping through the note cards checking for who knows what.

After she passed she vowed to burn them.

I am not looking forward to boards in 5+ years...
Traveling vets really do have the best airport security stories. One I worked with was traveling somewhere (can't remember) to do something (great story, I know). She packed some ridiculous surgical tool that clearly wouldn't make it past security, and it certainly didn't. Needless to say, she didn't make her flight that day.
 
Traveling vets really do have the best airport security stories. One I worked with was traveling somewhere (can't remember) to do something (great story, I know). She packed some ridiculous surgical tool that clearly wouldn't make it past security, and it certainly didn't. Needless to say, she didn't make her flight that day.
A classmate of mine had to travel with horse feces over the last year for a research project on the carriage horses. Funny.
 
A classmate of mine had to travel with horse feces over the last year for a research project on the carriage horses. Funny.
If it wasn't checked, I hope it was packaged very well!
 
Hi Everyone,

I'm looking for a bit of advice regarding internships and residencies. I'm aware that the most important things are your class rank/GPA and your LORs (maybe more so).

I've just received my class ranking and it would appear that I'm incredibly average. This isn't a bad thing, being considered average in a program with such intelligent people could never be considered a bad thing. I guess what I'm trying to say is I've never been average, I've always been the top of my class (like most vet students), so this news is incredibly humbling. Which is good in the long run I suppose... It just doesn't feel great now. I digress.

I will be starting second year in September and I know that I want to do an internship/residency (just not sure what area). I know it's early to be worrying about such things but I can't help it. As it stands right now my top choices for internship programs are: Cornell, Ohio State, OVC, UC Davis (residency), and AVC. This is mostly based on location, places I'm willing live, and what I've heard about the programs so far.

I'm currently ranked in the top 45% of my class, with an 86 (3.9 GPA according to the official conversion chart) average for my first year. I'm just wondering if it would still be possible for me to get an internship/residency at some of the schools I listed? I have two more years of classes to increase my class rank, but I'm not to sure whether I could bring it up high enough to be considered for my top choices. I'm just a little worried my dreams of specializing aren't going to happen.

Thanks for reading
 
First of all, you only have one year under your belt. You have lots of time. Your GPA is stellar and likely the only reason your rank *seems* average is because everyone else's GPA is high as well. This is where all of the other factors come into play for specializing.

Instead of focusing soley on grades and rank, you should start networking - externships, meeting specialists, and building a strong foundation for good references. Letters of rec and knowing the right people are arguably just as important as your stats in many specialties.

You are also narrowing your choices down FAR too early, especially since you are not even sure what area you cant to go into. I ended up doing residency in a place I *never* thought I would ever end up or what to live, and it was by far the best decision I have ever made and I would do it again in a heartbeat.
 
I agree with WTF 100%. I got a small animal rotating internship with a GPA of 3.2 and ranked at 53% in my class. My GPA after first year was below a 3. While grades are important, networking is just as much so. I don't know if I would have gotten my internship if I hadn't met the director on several occasions, done an externship at the clinic, etc. Maybe I wasn't at the most prestigious program, but I did an internship, my reviews during the internship were above average, and I start my residency in about 10 days. Work on doing as good as you can in classes and start networking.


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Thank you both for your advice! I appreciate it. I know it's really soon for me to be worrying about these thing, but thinking about having to apply and "compete" again gives me anxiety. Especially considering, I felt relatively safe once I was admitted to vet school.

So I think and I plan and I worry about my future lol

I will definitely look into doing some externships and networking at the programs I'm interested in. Those are just the ones I'm interested in now. I've been with my boyfriend for over 5 years now and we'll probably be getting engaged/married at some point before vet school is over. These locations (with the exception of UCD) allow me to have a reasonable commute to visit him since he won't be able to work in the states.

I have no delusions of grandeur when it comes to the salary I'll have as an intern and resident. I know I wouldn't be able to support two people and pay off my student loans making that kind of money. So that's a major factor in my choices thus far. Nor would I ask him to uproot his life and career for a 1 year internship, especially considering the 30% match rate for residencies.
 
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Thank you both for your advice! I appreciate it. I know it's really soon for me to be worrying about these thing, but thinking about having to apply and "compete" again gives me anxiety. Especially considering, I felt relatively safe once I was admitted to vet school.

So I think and I plan and I worry about my future lol

I will definitely look into doing some externships and networking at the programs I'm interested in. Those are just the ones I'm interested in now. I've been with my boyfriend for over 5 years now and we'll probably be getting engaged/married at some point before vet school is over. These locations (with the exception of UCD) allow me to have a reasonable commute to visit him since he won't be able to work in the states.

I have no delusions of grandeur when it comes to the salary I'll have as an intern and resident. I know I wouldn't be able to support two people and pay off my student loans making that kind of money. So that's a major factor in my choices thus far. Nor would I ask him to uproot his life and career for a 1 year internship, especially considering the 30% match rate for residencies.

Man, I WISH my residency had a 30% acceptance rate :laugh: Ours is around 5%, 10% at absolute best.

(and just to drive home the point, I was in the bottom third of my class in terms of grades and rank, but had TONS of experience/externships/electives, relevant in-school work experience, stellar letters of rec, the works - that's what got me the spot, grades be damned.)
 
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Man, I WISH my residency had a 30% acceptance rate :laugh: Ours is around 5%, 10% at absolute best.

(and just to drive home the point, I was in the bottom third of my class in terms of grades and rank, but had TONS of experience/externships/electives, relevant in-school work experience, stellar letters of rec, the works - that's what got me the spot, grades be damned.)

Oo that's encouraging. May I ask what field of vet med your residency is in?
 
I don't think I want to do a residency (financial reasons and such), but I decided that I wanted to do an internship late in the game. Applied to a bunch of places and ended up matching with my top program, which was a place I threw into the mix last minute and knew very little about but loved when I interviewed. I was literally in the bottom 10% of my class and wasn't a bad student by any means (started around a 2.5 in first year and pulled it up to a 3.3 ). So the other aspects of your application (the interview, out of class activities, externships, LORs) do make a difference. It may not be as well known, but I definitely think it's going to prepare me for what I want to do.
 
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Man, I WISH my residency had a 30% acceptance rate :laugh: Ours is around 5%, 10% at absolute best.

(and just to drive home the point, I was in the bottom third of my class in terms of grades and rank, but had TONS of experience/externships/electives, relevant in-school work experience, stellar letters of rec, the works - that's what got me the spot, grades be damned.)

I don't think I want to do a residency (financial reasons and such), but I decided that I wanted to do an internship late in the game. Applied to a bunch of places and ended up matching with my top program, which was a place I threw into the mix last minute and knew very little about but loved when I interviewed. I was literally in the bottom 10% of my class and wasn't a bad student by any means (started under 2.5 and worked up to a 3.3). So the other aspects of your application (the interview, out of class activities, externships, LORs) do make a difference. It may not be as well known, but I definitely think it's going to prepare me for what I want to do.

All of your experiences give me hope! Thank you for your encouraging words, I will definitely take that advice and continue doing a lot of extracurriculars and networking!
 
Oo that's encouraging. May I ask what field of vet med your residency is in?

Anatomic pathology. We're one of the most competitive specialties there is in terms of acceptance rate (not bragging, just fact), and there tends to be a huge focus on "outside-of-vet-school" experience and networking which is something a lot of people unfortunately eschew in favor of simple grades. My grades may have been mediocre, but I worked 1-2 path-related jobs during all three classroom years of vet school, spent every summer doing a path or research related externship, used my elective blocks doing rotations at other programs, etc. Of course, grades are important like everywhere else, but you have a perfect 4.0 but no pathology experience outside of classes? Yeah, no chance. Now, to be fair, I did get flat out rejected from 3 our of 4 programs, and I am sure it *was* because of those grades. But my other stuff pulled me through.

Think of it this way - LOTS of people are going to have great grades. What makes you different? What will make the internship/residency coordinators remember you? How have you gone the extra mile and proved that you are competent *outside* of the classroom?
 
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