Interventional Neurorads vs. Neurosurgery

[0Element0]

Hey all,

I am going to be an MS1 at the university of michigan ann arbor this fall and would like some advice. I am and have been very interested in neurobiology and wanted to know the similarities and differences between neurosurgery and interventional neuroradiology. ive done some light reading on the two (haha wikipedia etc) but wanted to know specifically the boundaries between the two specialties and whether there is or could be a significant meshing between the two (both the diagnostic/interventional aspect of INR and the hands on work of NSGY intrigue me)

Also, besides the obvious fact that a high board score etc are needed to match anywhere...does UMich specifically have a strong reputation or tendency to match students well into either/both of these specialties?

Last question, sorry yall, when should i be looking to get into some field-specific research? MS1, post-MS1 summer, etc..? Thanks for the help, i know i must come of as a real newb...its cuz i am : )

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[naegleria brain]

Hey all,

I am going to be an MS1 at the university of michigan ann arbor this fall and would like some advice. I am and have been very interested in neurobiology and wanted to know the similarities and differences between neurosurgery and interventional neuroradiology. ive done some light reading on the two (haha wikipedia etc) but wanted to know specifically the boundaries between the two specialties and whether there is or could be a significant meshing between the two (both the diagnostic/interventional aspect of INR and the hands on work of NSGY intrigue me)

Also, besides the obvious fact that a high board score etc are needed to match anywhere...does UMich specifically have a strong reputation or tendency to match students well into either/both of these specialties?

Last question, sorry yall, when should i be looking to get into some field-specific research? MS1, post-MS1 summer, etc..? Thanks for the help, i know i must come of as a real newb...its cuz i am : )

1. too many aspects. for one, >50% of nsg involves the spine.
2. go to uncleharvey.com and check out the match list. see where the people from Mich went, and who is going to Mich's residency
3. many start post-MS1 summer. others wait till 3rd year. i say once you get in the rhythm, do research concurrent with studies. it means giving up social nights, post exams, weekends for research, but could be well worth it if you are serious about either field.

 

[kenneth.c.liu]

both "specialties" take care of the same types of problems: strokes, aneurysms, AVMs, compression fractures of the spine, etc. however, neurosurgeons have a broader scope of practice: peripheral nerve, brain tumors, trauma, spine instrumentation, epilepsy, pain, functional, etc. the types of problems that is covered under interventional neuroradiology typically falls within the neurosurgical subspecialty of cerebrovascular. the two are quickly becoming the same: interventional neuroradiology and cerebrovascular neurosurgery. INR tends to fix problems via endovascular routes (minimally invasive) while surgeons fix problems via an "open" approach. there are surgeons who are trained in both (but not the other way around).

another "difference" is how you get there. you can get there via the neurosurgery route: 7 years of neurosurgery residency with 2 years of fellowship, or via the radiology route: 5 years of radiology residency with 2 years of fellowship, with maybe another year or so for neuroradiology.

as such, there are radiologists who do this kind of stuff and there are surgeons who do this kind of stuff. radiologists are handicapped when it comes to patient care, simply because there is none of it during their residency. for surgeons, it's the opposite: critical care is a big part of what we do. patients with aneurysms and strokes and AVMs are some of the sickest people in the hospital. more and more surgeons are training as neurointerventionalists. i believe that these physicians are the best equipped to handle this patient population.

hope this helps.

 

[FutureNeuroStud]

both "specialties" take care of the same types of problems: strokes, aneurysms, AVMs, compression fractures of the spine, etc. however, neurosurgeons have a broader scope of practice: peripheral nerve, brain tumors, trauma, spine instrumentation, epilepsy, pain, functional, etc. the types of problems that is covered under interventional neuroradiology typically falls within the neurosurgical subspecialty of cerebrovascular. the two are quickly becoming the same: interventional neuroradiology and cerebrovascular neurosurgery. INR tends to fix problems via endovascular routes (minimally invasive) while surgeons fix problems via an "open" approach. there are surgeons who are trained in both (but not the other way around).

another "difference" is how you get there. you can get there via the neurosurgery route: 7 years of neurosurgery residency with 2 years of fellowship, or via the radiology route: 5 years of radiology residency with 2 years of fellowship, with maybe another year or so for neuroradiology.

as such, there are radiologists who do this kind of stuff and there are surgeons who do this kind of stuff. radiologists are handicapped when it comes to patient care, simply because there is none of it during their residency. for surgeons, it's the opposite: critical care is a big part of what we do. patients with aneurysms and strokes and AVMs are some of the sickest people in the hospital. more and more surgeons are training as neurointerventionalists. i believe that these physicians are the best equipped to handle this patient population.

hope this helps.

My dad's a interventionalist and one of the surgeons I work with did a 1-yr fellowship in neurointerventional at Memphis. The big difference is that neurointerventionalists are physicians, whereas NSG's who do neurointerventional work are surgeons. Essentially, that translates to a difference in the work you do besides NI. The surgeon does bread-and-butter NSG while my dad does bread-and-butter radiology. Some NSG programs are absorbing NI as part of their endovascular curriculum. Some NSG programs allow a year during residency for fellowship/research, which could potentially be used to do some NI stuff. When deciding for yourself, it really depends on what you enjoy doing. Do you like studying scans to figure out what's wrong with a patient in concert with neurologists and NSGs and, eventually, doing something about it? Or do you like treating patients with neurological conditions and being able to provide a definitive fix while occasionally being able to provide a minimally-invasive alternative to clipping an aneurysm?

 

[BrainDoc22]

Subarachnoid Hemorrhages are controlled by neurosurgery thus if there is a neurosurgeon that does endovascular they will get that patient in most cases. A neurosugeon has the distinct advantage of surgical anatomy and the know how to care for these patients. A non-neurosurgeon needs a neurosurgeon to back them in case things go bad, which happens more than you might think.

A neurosurgeon that does endovascular is a hot comodity and the sky is the limit.

And by the way, the last time I looked Neurosurgeons are physicians too.