Interview and Dinner the night before

[LoveMedicine100]

Will it look bad if I do not attend the dinner the night before of the interview?? What if you have a feedinng tube/ J tube, and you cant eat. Should you still go??

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[Fenster]

Maybe, but why would you want to miss the best chance you have at gathering information about the program?

 

[SmallBird]

I don't think it looks bad - I didn't attend any of the dinners for my interviews because my travel arrangements didn't allow for this, and I still feel the process went well for the most part.

 

[psychattending]

Will it look bad if I do not attend the dinner the night before of the interview??

Theoretically, the program should be judging you on what they think your potential is and not on whether you like them or not. That said, if it is because you can't get a flight in on time, then I suspect that there will be not down-side. However, if you missed dinner so that you can visit a friend, then I could see the emotional response from the program (e.g. "the person is not really interested in us but is just seeing a friend") coloring their perception of you.

As a advisor, I would ask my student, if the purpose of the interview is for the student to find the best place for training, why would the student not go to dinner if he/she has the possibility since it should allow the student to obtain more information about the program.

 

[Bartelby]

It will be fine at most places, not everyone can make these dinners. It does not factor into the decision at my program unless the person shows up to dinner and does something inappropriate (although residents can send in special mention about applicants that stood out in positive ways as well). If you are in town though you should go, you can get a ton of useful information about the program and the people in it in a really short amount of time with that much face time with current residents.

 

[LoveMedicine100]

..

 

[m1345]

I would do everything you can to go. Rumor has it that some programs specifically ask and strongly consider what the residents thought of the applicants at the dinner; however, I think that this is the exception rather than the rule and, as mentioned above, it would be worse to go and make a bad impression than not at all. Regardless, I think that they are extremely important in helping an applicant make a decision on how to rank a program. My rank list would have looked quite different if I hadn't attended the dinners! You can get a really good sense of how happy people are at the program, how cohesive the resident body is (are they having fun together? do they even know eachother?), and just a general feel for the type of people that come to the program (much more than at the hospital when everyone is in work-mode).

 

[vistaril]

Will it look bad if I do not attend the dinner the night before of the interview??

Most people here already know how I feel about interview dinners, but I'll just say this- I wouldn't put too much stock in your perception of how the residents interacted with each other and spoke of the program at a forced dinner.

 

[Leo Aquarius]

Also keep in mind the selection bias. Residents at dinners volunteer to be there and thus want to take you guys out. I have yet to meet a resident who volunteered to take out applicants just to bash the program as they wipe the corner of their mouth in front of a filet mignon entree.

 

[notdeadyet]

I agree with the comments about selection bias amongs the residents who volunteer for these residency dinners.

I will say this,though: residents have a vested interest in ensuring that people who come to their residency really want to be there. You may have some PDs who care about board scores and pedigrees, but most residents couldn't give a $hit about any of that. Most of us want to know:

• Can I count on you?
• Will you still be fun to be around after a 16 hour shift?
• Will I learn anything from you?

While I think it's very awkward and difficult to ask pointed questions during the interview day, I think you can do it over a beer or chow at a residency dinner. And while you won't be meeting the dissatisfied burnouts, I think most folks who show up will be fairly candid about what to expect at the program. I have. It's in my best interest that people rank my program appropriately.

 

[LoveMedicine100]

What if you have a J tube/ feeding tube and you cannot eat at a restaurant. Should you still go??

 

[Firewood]

What if you have a J tube/ feeding tube and you cannot eat at a restaurant. Should you still go??

The dinner is not about the food, it's about interacting with and learning from the current residents. If you can't eat for whatever reason, then a polite excuse should suffice.

 

[LoveMedicine100]

The dinner is not about the food, it's about interacting with and learning from the current residents. If you can't eat for whatever reason, then a polite excuse should suffice.

Thanks!!! I will definately go then

 

[Jorje286]

I agree with the comments about selection bias amongs the residents who volunteer for these residency dinners.

I will say this,though: residents have a vested interest in ensuring that people who come to their residency really want to be there. You may have some PDs who care about board scores and pedigrees, but most residents couldn't give a $hit about any of that. Most of us want to know:

• 
  [*]Can I count on you?
  [*]Will you still be fun to be around after a 16 hour shift?
  [*]Will I learn anything from you?

While I think it's very awkward and difficult to ask pointed questions during the interview day, I think you can do it over a beer or chow at a residency dinner. And while you won't be meeting the dissatisfied burnouts, I think most folks who show up will be fairly candid about what to expect at the program. I have. It's in my best interest that people rank my program appropriately.

And honestly these have very little to do with how good a psychiatrist you are/can be.

 

[splik]

And honestly these have very little to do with how good a psychiatrist you are/can be.

well neither does psychiatry residency! good psychiatrists exist in spite of their training, not because of it.

 

[notdeadyet]

And honestly these have very little to do with how good a psychiatrist you are/can be.

I think residents are screening for the applicant's suitable fit to the program. Is a PGY-2 really qualified to judge how good a psychiatrist an applicant will be? That's why we have the interview day and the committee to read those tea leaves.

 

[notdeadyet]

well neither does psychiatry residency! good psychiatrists exist in spite of their training, not because of it.

Not all training programs are malignant. Anyone who gets through a psychiatry residency program and is worse off for it went to a very sorry program or has grandiose delusions.

 

[splik]

well i just remember the advise i was given by a psychiatrist and friend before i started residency "Luckily training is short and you'll have your whole career to unlearn your training". I think there is probably something to that that has nothing to do with malignancy (which my program is not) or grandiosity (which i probably have a bit of). i think the point was not a criticism of what was explicitly taught, but the problems of psychiatry's hidden curriculum and the socialization of psychiatrists.

anyway, i agree with you - much more important than the lofty task of sorting out who will be a great psychiatrist, is whether you can actually work with other people, be relied on etc. if it's a choice between an egomaniacal narcissistic applicant who has shades of brilliance and could become a leader in the field, or an affable, dependable and humble applicant who would be a "good enough" psychiatrist, the "good enough" applicant wins every time. and if you can have the best of both worlds then that trumps everything.

 

[m1345]

Also keep in mind the selection bias. Residents at dinners volunteer to be there and thus want to take you guys out. I have yet to meet a resident who volunteered to take out applicants just to bash the program as they wipe the corner of their mouth in front of a filet mignon entree.

Agreed. Everyone at all the dinners I went to was curtious and spoke highly of their program; however, there were very different vibes at each of the dinners. There is a huge difference between having dinner with some perfectly nice people (who I'm forcing conversation with) and having dinner with people who I really click with, I'm laughing with, and feel like I'd really enjoy being around for 4 years.

I also agree that people at the dinners as well as during the interview seemed to answer questions honestly...no one wants to have highly qualified but miserable residents at their program.

Again though, I didn't go to the dinners to learn facts about the program. I went to get a gut feel about the program.

 

[Yousarrian]

I have some dinners coming up. I am going to try to go to them but not if it means I just rushing from the airport. Flitting from city to city for interviews I realized really wears me out.

 

[eastcoastdr]

What if you have a J tube/ feeding tube and you cannot eat at a restaurant. Should you still go??

Every program that has invited me to dinner has also requested that we tell them if we have any food restrictions (allergies, vegetarian, etc). If you have another reason why you cannot eat, I am sure everyone will understand.

I have really enjoyed the dinners before. It's a nice chance to meet everyone and ask questions. Plus, the free food doesn't hurt...

 

[peppy]

For a situation like a J tube, I would just tell them something along the lines of, "I am on a special diet and won't be able to eat at the dinner [or however you want to explain it - it's up to you how much detail you feel comfortable giving about why], but would still like to meet with the residents and learn about the program." That way you seem interested and can still benefit from getting to know the residents.

At my current program, nobody would notice or care if an applicant declined the dinner. However, I did interview at one program where they seemed to resent that I was unable to make it to the cocktail reception they had the night before even though I had a very good reason for not being able to go. I think how they react will depend on the personality styles in the program.