Is A less expensive institution the way to go?

[pasofinab]

So I have seen many current and future pharmacy students stress the COST for a Pharm. D.
Should we make our decision to attend based on the cost of the school? From previous post many argue that the PROGRAM we attend really doesnt matter, unless we want to complete a RESIDENCY. Please share you opinion.

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[rxtech2012]

So I have seen many current and future pharmacy students stress the COST for a Pharm. D.
Should we make our decision to attend based on the cost of the school? From previous post many argue that the PROGRAM we attend really doesnt matter, unless we want to complete a RESIDENCY. Please share you opinion.

Honesty, if the schools you're comparing are decent established programs, why pay 40k a year in tuition when you can pay, let's say 16 or 17k per year for tuition? You graduate with the same degree and most likely same job and pay but now the person who attended the lesser of the two owes ~96k less in loans when it comes to tuition. Just something to think about...

 

[rxtech2012]

So I have seen many current and future pharmacy students stress the COST for a Pharm. D.
Should we make our decision to attend based on the cost of the school? From previous post many argue that the PROGRAM we attend really doesnt matter, unless we want to complete a RESIDENCY. Please share you opinion.

Oh and not only the difference in principal loan amounts but you also need to consider the interest that accrues and obviously the higher loan amount will accrue more interest

 

[Sugoi Travis]

Rather than bringing in the idea of going to the cheapest place possible, I'd rather think of it as going to an institution where you will make the most of your 3/4 years in pharmacy school (disregarding residency). I feel that what you make of it is more important than where you go. You obviously will have more options at an already-established/prestigious school, but if you're just going through the motions then you're kinda screwed if you want to land yourself a job offer before leaving pharmacy school.

 

[delacr69]

Ok here's My Dilemma

Roseman University - 3yr program/MBA (wanna start a business someday), no living expenses(hometown)

VS

University of Washington - 4yrs but way better program, school, and location. I can see myself living in the area compared to in Las Vegas.

If cost was not an issue, I would choose UW in a heartbeat because it is my dream school.
Unfortunately, the tuition is at 43k a year compared to 48k a yr, but with an extra year and living expenses. So most likely 100-130k more.

 

[rxtech2012]

Ok here's My Dilemma

Roseman University - 3yr program/MBA (wanna start a business someday), no living expenses(hometown)

VS

University of Washington - 4yrs but way better program, school, and location. I can see myself living in the area compared to in Las Vegas.

If cost was not an issue, I would choose UW in a heartbeat because it is my dream school.
Unfortunately, the tuition is at 43k a year compared to 48k a yr, but with an extra year and living expenses. So most likely 100-130k more.

Dang 43k a year only for tuition?! That's crazy expensive! My schools out of state tuition is only around 25k a year

 

[PharmtoCS]

It's actually cheaper for me to go to an out-of-state private school than to go to one of the in-state public schools, which are all located in cities with very high cost of living.

 

[BMBiology]

Besides tuition, you need to also consider the location. You are more likely to land a job where your pharmacy school is located.

Second, you don't need an MBA to own a pharmacy. The most successful pharmacists I know never went to business school. They learn by working, not by reading some business books.

 

[delacr69]

Besides tuition, you need to also consider the location. You are more likely to land a job where your pharmacy school is located.

Second, you don't need an MBA to own a pharmacy. The most successful pharmacists I know never went to business school. They learn by working, not by reading some business books.

Saw some of your other posts concerning loans. By your calculations I would be in about 300k deep compared to probably 160k. With the way the market for pharmacy is and leading towards, do you think going to UW would be worth it? The biggest things attracting me, are getting out of vegas and getting a life experience in a City that I could see myself spending the rest of my life in. (I've lived with my parents my whole life) As well as UW being a 10x better program than Rosemans

The MBA, wouldn't necessarily have to be for pharmacy related, but rather compliment my background in entrepreneurship.

Just really split on my decision.

 

[PharmtoCS]

Saw some of your other posts concerning loans. By your calculations I would be in about 300k deep compared to probably 160k. With the way the market for pharmacy is and leading towards, do you think going to UW would be worth it? The biggest things attracting me, are getting out of vegas and getting a life experience in a City that I could see myself spending the rest of my life in. (I've lived with my parents my whole life) As well as UW being a 10x better program than Rosemans

The MBA, wouldn't necessarily have to be for pharmacy related, but rather compliment my background in entrepreneurship.

Just really split on my decision.

UW has a good reputation, but some students have reported that the faculty there seem more interested in their own research than helping out students. Also, the job market in the Seattle metro area appears to be saturated. I'm not sure how it is in Las Vegas. In my opinion, the grass may not be as green as you think on the other side, especially if you're going to be taking out twice the amount of loans to go to UW.

 

[BMBiology]

Saw some of your other posts concerning loans. By your calculations I would be in about 300k deep compared to probably 160k.

Most likely you will owe more than 300 k + 6.8-7.9% if you go to UW. You will never be able to pay this back because:

(1) 95% of pharmacists make between 100-130 k a year before tax, working full time; (2) there's not much room for growth; (3) new grads are having a hard time getting 40 hours a week.

Financially speaking, I would not go to pharmacy school unless my total loans is < 150 k (including interest accrued during pharmacy school) when I graduate.

 

[BMBiology]

If you live in a state like California where there is income tax, you will only take home about 60% of your salary. So if your salary is 120 k a year, you will take home 72 k a year.

I am being conservative and punched in 300 k + 6.8% interest under the standard 10 year repayment = almost $3500 a month so $42 k a year

http://www.finaid.org/calculators/scripts/loanpayments.cgi

42 k/72 k = almost 60% of your take home income will go toward your loans. You will have just 30 k a year to spend on living cost (house, food, clothes), car, gas, going out, etc. 30 k is not too bad when you are living like a college student but when you have a family, mortgage, 30 k is nothing.

 

[rxtech2012]

Most likely you will owe more than 300 k + 6.8-7.9% if you go to UW. You will never be able to pay this back because:

(1) 95% of pharmacists make between 100-130 k a year before tax, working full time; (2) there's not much room for growth; (3) new grads are having a hard time getting 40 hours a week.

Financially speaking, I would not go to pharmacy school unless my total loans is < 150 k (including interest accrued during pharmacy school) when I graduate.

How about ~158k (total undergrad plus pharmacy)?

 

[BMBiology]

Anything close to 150 k is acceptable but a lot of people tend to underestimate how much they will owe.

They don't consider fees like origination fee. For grad plus, it is 4% origination fee so if you borrow 20 k during your first year, you will pay $800 in fee + 7.9% interest. The $800 becomes $1050 when you graduate from pharmacy school. If you are on the 10 year plan, you will pay more than $1500 over 10 years so almost 2x the amount you borrowed ($800). You will even pay more interest if you are on income-based repayment (IBR) since the loan is repaid over 20-25 years.

Don't just look at tuition. There are usually other fees as well (e.g., parking, health insurance, school fees, licensing fees, club fees, cost of going to conferences, etc).

Most students borrow more than they actually need because they have worked "so hard" and deserve to reward themselves like going to vegas, going out to eat after finals, etc.

It really adds up.

 

[rxtech2012]

Anything close to 150 k is acceptable but a lot of people tend to underestimate how much they will owe.

They don't consider fees like origination fee. For grad plus, it is 4% origination fee so if you borrow 20 k during your first year, you will pay $800 in fee + 7.9% interest. The $800 becomes $1050 when you graduate from pharmacy school. If you are on the 10 year plan, you will pay more than $1500 over 10 years so almost 2x the amount you borrowed ($800). You will even pay more interest if you are on income-based repayment (IBR) since the loan is repaid over 20-25 years.

Don't just look at tuition. There are usually other fees as well (e.g., parking, health insurance, school fees, licensing fees, club fees, cost of going to conferences, etc).

Most students borrow more than they actually need because they have worked "so hard" and deserve to reward themselves like going to vegas, going out to eat after finals, etc.

It really adds up.

You bring up great points.

 

[Sugoi Travis]

Most students borrow more than they actually need because they have worked "so hard" and deserve to reward themselves like going to vegas, going out to eat after finals, etc.

It really adds up.

I'm not surprised, considering student loan debt in the US is hovering around $1 trillion. Whatever happened to paying off your loans ASAP so that interest doesn't bite you in the ass in the future?

 

[alanamhb]

you're kinda screwed if you want to land yourself a job offer before leaving pharmacy school

 

[Skrumpy]

I'm not surprised, considering student loan debt in the US is hovering around $1 trillion. Whatever happened to paying off your loans ASAP so that interest doesn't bite you in the ass in the future?

Interest rates on school loans are typically some of the lowest you can get. Therefore it makes sense to pay those back last, especially if you are getting other loans right out of school (car, home, etc). Those types of loans are dependent on your credit score and you may end up with an interest rate 2-3 times what you have on your school loans. As BMB suggests, the best thing to do is to know what you are getting yourself into. Take a look at what you are going to end up owing out of school and how much you will be paying the bank back over the years. Many tend not to think about those costs, and the fact that after you pay off your home loan you could have purchased 3-4 more homes for the same price. As some say ignorance is bliss.. but TBH I think the true bliss would be knowing that you are debt free ASAP. With the link above you can calculate the exact month you should have everything paid off. If you are diligent in your plan you may be surprised at how quickly you can pay off your loans and be debt free.

 

[MatCauthon]

Interest rates on school loans are typically some of the lowest you can get. Therefore it makes sense to pay those back last, especially if you are getting other loans right out of school (car, home, etc). Those types of loans are dependent on your credit score and you may end up with an interest rate 2-3 times what you have on your school loans. As BMB suggests, the best thing to do is to know what you are getting yourself into. Take a look at what you are going to end up owing out of school and how much you will be paying the bank back over the years. Many tend not to think about those costs, and the fact that after you pay off your home loan you could have purchased 3-4 more homes for the same price. As some say ignorance is bliss.. but TBH I think the true bliss would be knowing that you are debt free ASAP. With the link above you can calculate the exact month you should have everything paid off. If you are diligent in your plan you may be surprised at how quickly you can pay off your loans and be debt free.

How is 6.8% one of the cheapest loans you can get? That doesn't make any sense at all. Mortgage rates are dirt-cheap right now. In fact, I know of a few older students that re-financed their homes to pay off their expensive student loan debt. Students are royally screwed. Just a few years ago I locked all my loans in at 3%. That was cheap. 6.8% interest that is not subsidized during pharmacy schools is a bad deal for everyone. The person making this post should take the least expensive school and the free living expenses every time unless they want to really struggle when they graduate.

Some of these Pharmacy schools in California with 50K tuition are preposterous when one adds in accruing interest, cost of living, and a stagnating job market.

 

[Sugoi Travis]

How is 6.8% one of the cheapest loans you can get? That doesn't make any sense at all. Mortgage rates are dirt-cheap right now. In fact, I know of a few older students that re-financed their homes to pay off their expensive student loan debt. Students are royally screwed. Just a few years ago I locked all my loans in at 3%. That was cheap. 6.8% interest that is not subsidized during pharmacy schools is a bad deal for everyone. The person making this post should take the least expensive school and the free living expenses every time unless they want to really struggle when they graduate.

Some of these Pharmacy schools in California with 50K tuition are preposterous when one adds in accruing interest, cost of living, and a stagnating job market.

I think he's referring to "school loans" as loans dispersed by the school you're attending, not the federal loans. I could very well be wrong though; I've never taken a loan out for undergrad and pharmacy school will be the first time I'll be taking some form of loan out.

 

[BMBiology]

Actually 6.8% and 7.9% are Stafford and Grad Plus Loan which are both federal student loans. They are not cheap compared to mortgage rate (3.4% for 30 year mortgage) or car loan (1.9%) if you have good credit.

 

[Skrumpy]

Actually 6.8% and 7.9% are Stafford and Grad Plus Loan which are both federal student loans. They are not cheap compared to mortgage rate (3.4% for 30 year mortgage) or car loan (1.9%) if you have good credit.

LOL... 1.9%? Maybe as some sort of introductory rate with a stellar rating. Average car loans for new cars are ~5% and ~9% for used. For poor credit (low 700's) you will be lucky to see less than 11-12% and that would be if you could even secure a loan in the first place. Likewise with a mortgage. Like I said these are dependent on credit rating whereas as long as you aren't in default on other federal loans you can't be denied for them.

 

[rxtech2012]

I think he's referring to "school loans" as loans dispersed by the school you're attending, not the federal loans. I could very well be wrong though; I've never taken a loan out for undergrad and pharmacy school will be the first time I'll be taking some form of loan out.

Loans that are dispersed by the school come from federal govt in most scenarios. I believe a few years back the govt got more involved and removed private banks from being the middleman of guaranteeing federal loans, so they eliminated the FFEL program. Now it's called Direct federal loans, hence the direct means directly from dept of education, which are then dispersed to the school and subsequently the student. Now, schools do have emergency tuition loans which still charge interest and must be paid in full in a fairly short timeline(2-3 months) so it gives the student to secure aid from either the govt or private lender.

 

[BMBiology]

LOL... 1.9%? Maybe as some sort of introductory rate with a stellar rating. Average car loans for new cars are ~5% and ~9% for used. For poor credit (low 700's) you will be lucky to see less than 11-12% and that would be if you could even secure a loan in the first place. Likewise with a mortgage. Like I said these are dependent on credit rating whereas as long as you aren't in default on other federal loans you can't be denied for them.

Many people including myself got 1.9% interest for a new car.

If the interest rate they are giving you is 9% then maybe your credit history shows you shouldn't be buying a nice car or perhaps you should buy a car that you can actually afford.

Using money from your student loan (which is accruing interest) to buy a car that you can't afford (which is also accruing interest) is the dumbest thing ever.

 

[Skrumpy]

Many people including myself got 1.9% interest for a new car.

If the interest rate they are giving you is 9% then maybe your credit history shows you shouldn't be buying a nice car or perhaps you should buy a car that you can actually afford.

Using money from your student loan (which is accruing interest) to buy a car that you can't afford (which is also accruing interest) is the dumbest thing ever.

Many people also get free Lamborghini's from their father on their 16th birthday (ever see My Super Sweet 16?) that doesn't mean it's the norm. I'm glad you finally gravitated back over to some personal jabs there I was starting to think you lost a bit of your fight. As far as my personal experience with cars, I've never purchased one unless I had the cash to pay for it out right. Thus you could say I've only ever had a 0% interest rate (wish I could say the same about my home, but that will be paid off in due time). Many fresh grads also have no credit which, as I'm sure you know, is different from bad credit yet is often treated the same. I will agree with you on the last point. However, people prioritize things differently so who are we to judge? If someone is fine with racking up mountains of debt, more power to them. As long as they can still wake up in the morning and face each day without wanting to cut themselves, I'm not going to chastise them for living life the way they want.

 

[BMBiology]

I wasn't referring to you.

Living the life they want to live off other taxpayers' money?

 

[owlegrad]

I wasn't referring to you.

Living the life they want to live off other taxpayers' money?

Holy logic leap batman! How much do student loans cost taxpayer's exactly?

 

[BMBiology]

Just because it is currently not costing taxpayers any money doesn't mean it won't in the near future and people are not abusing it.

Isn't the delinquency rate 33% now?

 

[Skrumpy]

If the interest rate they are giving you is 9% then maybe your credit history shows you shouldn't be buying a nice car or perhaps you should buy a car that you can actually afford.

I wasn't referring to you.

Just busting your chops!

Just because it is currently not costing taxpayers any money doesn't mean it won't in the near future and people are not abusing it.

Isn't the delinquency rate 33% now?

http://www.cnbc.com/id/48148304

Some good info there, albeit slightly outdated. Personally I believe there is a fundamental problem with how the system is currently setup. The cost of education is way to damn high, hell our parents could have graduated with a 4 year degree from Yale for 1/2 the price of 1 semester of what you will pay nowadays at a public institution (yes seriously). The cost of education has skyrocketed well beyond cost of living, and while the returns on education have also increased they have not (on average) risen to match the current educational costs. Also there is an overemphasis on college education (just heard an NPR speaker saying it's pretty much a necessity in today's job market unless you want to flip burgers). Student loan debt is the next big bubble (like the housing market) and it will be interesting to see what will happen in the coming years. As usual the typical American tactic is always reactive rather than proactive.

 

[BMBiology]

You = people on this forum

You are being way too sensitive

 

[Skrumpy]

You = people on this forum

You are being way too sensitive

I agree, they definitely are.

 

[owlegrad]

Get a room!

 

[Pharmdmba1978]

Does cost matter??? YES, YES, YES, YES... Go to the least expensive accredited institution that you can!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[metrarx]

LOL... 1.9%? Maybe as some sort of introductory rate with a stellar rating. Average car loans for new cars are ~5% and ~9% for used. For poor credit (low 700's) you will be lucky to see less than 11-12% and that would be if you could even secure a loan in the first place. Likewise with a mortgage. Like I said these are dependent on credit rating whereas as long as you aren't in default on other federal loans you can't be denied for them.

Oh really?

I financed my car at 3.25%. 8 months later I refinanced it at 1.49% (PenFed). Now they have 0.75% for used cars. I have very good credit but they were offering these loans to people with average credit as well...

 

[Skrumpy]

Oh really?

I financed my car at 3.25%. 8 months later I refinanced it at 1.49% (PenFed). Now they have 0.75% for used cars. I have very good credit but they were offering these loans to people with average credit as well...

See #25