is getting accepted as impossible as people make it out to be

[Goro]

Jeeze, more competition on my side of the Missouri River!!

Those numbers will go up by 100%/50% next year with WSU opening

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[BluMist]

Yeah, SWStL-COM was my dream school, but now...

Jeeze, more competition on my side of the Missouri River!!

 

[njtrimed]

As someone who is currently in the cycle, yes, it's really bad and it's only going to get worse.

As another poster mentioned, demographics are very important. An applicant from Michigan and California each have very different experiences.
I have many friends with above average GPAs/MCATs that are getting pre-interview rejections from NYMC, Texas Tech, etc. It's honestly, a crap shoot. Go to the Harvard page here and you will see people with LizzyMs of 68,69,70 getting interview invites who are subsequently being rejected from their state schools. It's a crapshoot. More schools, I predict, will begin using the Casper system of testing ethics in order to add more level to the strainer and be even more selective of students.

Even for DO schools, the older schools have processes that are becoming just as competitive. Some schools are already very vocal and public about not interviewing anyone with a sub 30 MCAT irregardless of GPA (TouroNY, AZCOM, TouroCA etc.). PCOM and CCOM receive more applicants than most MD schools. I mentioned this in another thread but, I predict, in the next 5 years, most of the older DO schools will have "closed doors" at Christmas, where most of the class will be filled by January. Currently, if you are a competitive applicant, applying in December isn't considered late. The concept of DOs becoming a "backup option" won't exist in ~5 years, if not sooner, unless you want to go to the Virginias or Carolinas.

Finally, let's not forget to mention the MCAT, the new MCAT. It's become a killer test that's 7 hours long. The requirements have now included psychology, sociology, biochemistry, genetics, and physiology. This will squeeze out sooo many non-trads and older students, unfortunately, that would add soo much perspective and diversity to medical school classes. If you are an ESL student, like me, prepare for the worst, because this test has become almost insurmountable.

I'm sorry to pick on you, Henry, but I've seen your comments on a few school-specific threads and from what I'm gathering, you are pretty late to the game in applying DO, and you aren't even sure why you're doing so. As @Gandyy and a few others have mentioned, DO is getting more competitive. Numbers are a huge component for med school admissions, but so are both timing and interest. The 3.7/31 MD and 3.4/27 DO thing may be averages, but I don't believe you can apply to either after October and still expect success even with a 4.0/40.

Gone are the days that you can start adding schools later in the game. It's too competitive, and there are tons of amazing applicants who have compelling reasons to attend that local state school, or that specific DO program. Maybe this is colored by my own personal perspective, but the only "safety" schools these days are those that just opened and have to prove to competitive applicants that they WILL have a job when they graduate. There are too many students like me, who don't have the luxury of being excited about just getting into med school; we don't have a safety net and need to know that we're going to be employed as soon as we earn that MD/DO. At my most recent DO school interview, one of the students leading the tour graduated with honors from an Ivy League undergraduate program. Click on any of your state school threads and find that the 3.7/520+ (37+) applicant was waitlisted last week.

Call me naive, but these days, you have to prove that you are not only academically capable of succeeding on boards and graduating, but that you truly want to treat patients, and are a great fit for that program. Schools want to hear why you think you belong there. I'm back on SDN years after I first pursued medicine, and this is not a scientific study, but it seemed like your average 3.7/33 applicant had lots of options, whereas these days the options are more limited and it's all about fit. Correct me if I'm misguided.

 

[Hospitalized]

Those numbers will go up by 100%/50% next year with WSU opening

WSU med reports that they will admit 40 students next year. UW admitted 228 last year from the WWAMI region. That's about a 15% increase in in-state admissions, actually quite significant given that some of UW's in-state seats are required to be from Wyoming, Alaska, Montana, and Idaho.

 

[Slave to the Game]

I'm sorry to pick on you, Henry, but I've seen your comments on a few school-specific threads and from what I'm gathering, you are pretty late to the game in applying DO, and you aren't even sure why you're doing so. As @Gandyy and a few others have mentioned, DO is getting more competitive. Numbers are a huge component for med school admissions, but so are both timing and interest. The 3.7/31 MD and 3.4/27 DO thing may be averages, but I don't believe you can apply to either after October and still expect success even with a 4.0/40.

Gone are the days that you can start adding schools later in the game. It's too competitive, and there are tons of amazing applicants who have compelling reasons to attend that local state school, or that specific DO program. Maybe this is colored by my own personal perspective, but the only "safety" schools these days are those that just opened and have to prove to competitive applicants that they WILL have a job when they graduate. There are too many students like me, who don't have the luxury of being excited about just getting into med school; we don't have a safety net and need to know that we're going to be employed as soon as we earn that MD/DO. At my most recent DO school interview, one of the students leading the tour graduated with honors from an Ivy League undergraduate program. Click on any of your state school threads and find that the 3.7/520+ (37+) applicant was waitlisted last week.

Call me naive, but these days, you have to prove that you are not only academically capable of succeeding on boards and graduating, but that you truly want to treat patients, and are a great fit for that program. Schools want to hear why you think you belong there. I'm back on SDN years after I first pursued medicine, and this is not a scientific study, but it seemed like your average 3.7/33 applicant had lots of options, whereas these days the options are more limited and it's all about fit. Correct me if I'm misguided.

Isn't there a Sept-November completion thread that contradicts your assumption entirely?

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

While I'm sure there are people complete then getting IIs it is definitely the exception not the rule. The early bird gets the worm 1000%

 

[Gandyy]

Far more than just MCAT goes into this. You need MCAT *and* everything else...the MCAT just ends up being the bottleneck because it's less common to get the ideal MCAT score than everything else. MCAT alone won't carry you, though.

Well yea... thats kind of what I was implying. Thats why I said "80 percent". It probably isnt exactly 80 percent but is def the hardest "checklist" item on the long chart.

I said "limiting reagent" too implying that the MCAT is in fact the bottleneck. We are saying the same thing. I just didnt explicitly say "everything else" in that post. Later I did in another post though.

 

[Cotterpin]

Isn't there a Sept-November completion thread that contradicts your assumption entirely?

Most of those people were complete in September. September is "normal" completion speed (not "normal" by SDN's skewed standards). I was complete in September and I have 2 II's, but I'm still waiting to hear anything at all from ten schools. It remains to be seen whether that's a good or bad thing.

 

[Mad Jack]

Allopathic: Its pretty damn hard especially with the rise of applicants. Honestly though I am a strong believer that the MCAT is the "limiting reactant" for the entire reaction to go to completion. Much much bigger crapshoot than Osteopathic Schools. Way more applicants, and the "low tier" MD schools all have MCAT scores/GPA matriculant averages at the same or slightly higher level as "top tier" DO schools. Edit: Also other people on here may not want to admit to it but your MCAT literally comprises about 80 percent of determining whether or not you have a shot between Harvard, or some random "low tier" MD. If you arent good at standardized testing, then dont expect too much from an allopathic cycle.

Osteopathic: These schools tend to be more forgiving so its not as hard, but its not super easy either. Still, they are much more forgiving of mistakes you might have made for your application. Still, you probably arent going to get into a DO school with a 3.0 and 25 MCAT. You also probably wont get in without some substantial form of clinical experience either. Its still not easy, but considerably easier to get in than an allopathic school. This is also probably due more to insanely large class sizes (270+) than "lax admissions standards".

270+ class sizes? I don't know of many that are over 150.

 

[njtrimed]

Isn't there a Sept-November completion thread that contradicts your assumption entirely?

Of course there are people who are not complete until the deadline that get into med school. That doesn't mean it's advisable, and doesn't contradict my assumption at all. An application that is complete in June/July is going to have a much better chance than the same application much later in the cycle.

 

[futuremdforme]

Honestly not really that hard. The GPA isn't that hard to make, the pre-reqs are actually lower level sciences so you don't even have to do a hard major. Volunteering isn't hard, it's to see if you like it and to show that you are willing to give up your time for others. MCAT is hard for a lot of people but the stats required for US MD/DO schools are entirely reasonable.

I would say it is hard in the sense that it is hard to exercise for 45 min, 6 days a week (regardless of intensity) vs hard in the sense of running a 4 min mile. It's the consistency and grit that test you, rather than the intellectual challenge of any one aspect.

 

[Gandyy]

270+ class sizes? I don't know of many that are over 150.

Huh? There are so many with high class sizes. AZCOM has 254. KCU has 270. WVSOM is a little over 200. Kirksville is a little less than 200. CCOM class size is a little over 200.

Those are some of the ones I looked up just now. 270+ for an average is probably an exaggeration, but its not far off either. Most MD schools have class sizes in the low 100's, not around the 200 range. Which was my original point since I was making a comparison between allopathic and osteopathic.

 

[GrapesofRath]

I believe it. I got into almost an argument with a relative in Calif about this. She was annoyed when I said that an OOS serious premed high school senior shouldn't go to a Calif undergrad. In my view, there's little to no benefit. Any "tie" to that state that is created by going to undergrad there is negligible. Instead, if a student insists on going OOS, then at least pick a school where creating a "tie" to the state means something, and the state isn't over-run with too many premeds and too few seats.

Is that 14.7% number accurate? If so, when more than half of the successful applicants have to find seats OOS, that's a serious problem.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321466/data/factstable5.pdf

Yeah the 14.7% is accurate. I would agree if your sole goal is to try and get into an MD school as a High schooler(and for most honestly it shouldn't be) then yeah staying in CA and going to those grade deflated UC's and having no worthwhile state of residence isn't the move.

The best thing you could do in that case if you really want to play the odds in your favor is go to a school in a state where it's relatively easy to establish resident status(Idk which ones but I've heard Louisiana is one of them). Go to undergrad there, particularly if it isn't all that competitive of a school, then play the odds inyour favor. West Virginia would be a great state to do this in if they have leinient standards for establishing residency status. Alabama, Kentucky and South Carolina woud also be great states to try and pull this off in if someone is that hell bent on going to an MD school out of high school.

And btw there are many states where the majority of people who get in have to leave the state for med school. That's not CA's biggest problem.

 

[Glazedonutlove]

Honestly not really that hard. The GPA isn't that hard to make, the pre-reqs are actually lower level sciences so you don't even have to do a hard major. Volunteering isn't hard, it's to see if you like it and to show that you are willing to give up your time for others. MCAT is hard for a lot of people but the stats required for US MD/DO schools are entirely reasonable.

I would say it is hard in the sense that it is hard to exercise for 45 min, 6 days a week (regardless of intensity) vs hard in the sense of running a 4 min mile. It's the consistency and grit that test you, rather than the intellectual challenge of any one aspect.

I agree with this completely--put in the work and you will see results

 

[Lawpy]

Honestly not really that hard. The GPA isn't that hard to make, the pre-reqs are actually lower level sciences so you don't even have to do a hard major. Volunteering isn't hard, it's to see if you like it and to show that you are willing to give up your time for others. MCAT is hard for a lot of people but the stats required for US MD/DO schools are entirely reasonable.

I would say it is hard in the sense that it is hard to exercise for 45 min, 6 days a week (regardless of intensity) vs hard in the sense of running a 4 min mile. It's the consistency and grit that test you, rather than the intellectual challenge of any one aspect.

I agree with this completely--put in the work and you will see results

So... SDN exaggerates and makes things seem a lot worse than usual. Who knew?

 

[Glazedonutlove]

So... SDN exaggerates and makes things seem a lot worse than usual. Who knew?

People say it's a crapshoot and I agree for top 10 schools it may be, but I can't see a solid application not resulting in an acceptance somewhere

 

[aztlannation]

It's definitely not impossible. As long as you know what a decent applicant looks like early on you should be fine

• don't slack off in school and get good grades, no need for a 4.0
• take the MCAT seriously and try to get a descent score, no need to get a 38
• get involved with programs/clubs and take on leadership roles if you can
• if you can find a research lab it wouldn't hurt, no need to stress about getting published
• find something you are passionate for and stick to it, consistency is good
• learning Spanish would be very useful
• don't murder anyone, i.e. don't do stupid ****
• be able to have a simple conversation with someone and not be completely awkward

Edit: Of course, this is not the only way to get into medical school.

 

[Gandyy]

It's definitely not impossible. As long as you know what a descent applicant looks like early on you should be fine

• don't slack off in school and get good grades, no need for a 4.0
• take the MCAT seriously and try to get a descent score, no need to get a 38
• get involved with programs/clubs and take on leadership roles if you can
• if you can find a research lab it wouldn't hurt, no need to stress about getting published
• find something you are passionate for and stick to it, consistency is good
• learning Spanish would be very useful
• don't murder anyone, i.e. don't do stupid ****
• be able to have a simple conversation with someone and not be completely awkward

Edit: Of course, this is not the only way to get into medical school.

Many of you are implying that just by taking the MCAT seriously, and exhausting every resource, that everyone should be able to make a 31+ on the MCAT.

I'm here to tell you guys that is not true at all. The med school admissions process is a giant struggle for those having trouble with the MCAT.

 

[Giovanotto]

I would say it is hard in the sense that it is hard to exercise for 45 min, 6 days a week (regardless of intensity) vs hard in the sense of running a 4 min mile. It's the consistency and grit that test you, rather than the intellectual challenge of any one aspect.

The MCAT was my intellectual challenge.

 

[Fedekz]

270+ class sizes? I don't know of many that are over 150.

Huh? There are so many with high class sizes. AZCOM has 254. KCU has 270. WVSOM is a little over 200. Kirksville is a little less than 200. CCOM class size is a little over 200.

Those are some of the ones I looked up just now. 270+ for an average is probably an exaggeration, but its not far off either. Most MD schools have class sizes in the low 100's, not around the 200 range. Which was my original point since I was making a comparison between allopathic and osteopathic.

The UWSOM class of 270 is misleading. Only 100 or 120 of those students are at the Seattle UW campus. Another 35 are in Boise, ID, 40 or 60 in Spokane, WA, some at the University of Alaska, Montana State University, Wyoming etc. So the 270 students are spread out over 5 states. Seattle has the largest class size, which isn't that big ... 120?

It used to be that after the first year all the students came back to Seattle for M2. They recently changed that, so M1 and M2 are at the foundational sites.

In the 3rd and 4th year students are required to travel around for their rotations. If you did M1 and M2 in Seattle, you can't do all your M3 and M4 years in Seattle. You have to spend X months in a different area. With something like 240 clinical sites across the 5 states, the students are very spread out.

 

[aztlannation]

Many of you are implying that just by taking the MCAT seriously, and exhausting every resource, that everyone should be able to make a 31+ on the MCAT.

I'm here to tell you guys that is not true at all. The med school admissions process is a giant struggle for those having trouble with the MCAT.

I agree with you 100% -- the MCAT can definitely be the single thing to keep you from medical school. However, someone with a lower than average MCAT, albeit not terrible, can still have a good shot at medical school. Especially if they have some of the other experiences I mentioned. If allopathic schools don't work than osteopathic schools are great too.

If you are constantly scoring lower than a 20 on the MCAT and you're truly exhausting every possible resource to prepare you for the MCAT then that's a shame for that individual because it will keep them out of medical school

 

[Gandyy]

I agree with you 100% -- the MCAT can definitely be the single thing to keep you from medical school. However, someone with a lower than average MCAT, albeit not terrible, can still have a good shot at medical school. Especially if they have some of the other experiences I mentioned. If allopathic schools don't work than osteopathic schools are great too.

If you are constantly scoring lower than a 20 on the MCAT and you're truly exhausting every possible resource to prepare you for the MCAT then that's a shame for that individual because it will keep them out of medical school

Yes, and this is my major gripe with the med school admission process. Everything else that is "required" of you is not difficult granted you are a personable, normal person who can be likable during an interview.

 

[Glazedonutlove]

right but it is the only standardized thing on your application

 

[Gandyy]

right but it is the only standardized thing on your application

But the most emphasis is placed on it. It decides if you apply to lowest tier DO school or Harvard.

There is not another single thing on a medical school application that has that much impact on an application.

 

[Glazedonutlove]

But the most emphasis is placed on it. It decides if you apply to lowest tier DO school or Harvard.

There is not another single thing on a medical school application that has that much impact on an application.

yeah and it makes sense, as it is the only standardized aspect

 

[GrapesofRath]

But the most emphasis is placed on it. It decides if you apply to lowest tier DO school or Harvard.

There is not another single thing on a medical school application that has that much impact on an application.

I mean honestly I'd argue if anything the MCAT isn't given enough weight in med school admission purposes. It's the only standardized thing there is to compare applicants. GPA is too variable on school, major, professor etc. EC's have even more variables. The fact GPA and MCAT are given about equal weight and how many other variables there are besides them shows how hollistic this process is. In other countries and systems, what is standardized carries far far more weight. A 30 requires beating out 74 percent of pre-meds. A 29 68 percent of pre-meds. A 28, 62 percent of pre-meds. Many many people with strong GPAs get in with those scores every single year. When you can get into MD schools with MCAT scores that indicate 1/3 of the testing population is beating you out, there are many that would call that somewhat leinant if anything. Not only that, you have the option of re-taking the MCAT. There's no re-taking a Step 1 in med school.

 

[Cotterpin]

I am honestly surprised that so many people find the MCAT so hard. Maybe I should just thank my lucky stars that I'm good at standardized tests.

 

[Gandyy]

I mean honestly I'd argue if anything the MCAT isn't given enough weight in med school admission purposes. It's the only standardized thing there is to compare applicants. GPA is too variable on school, major, professor etc. EC's have even more variables. The fact GPA and MCAT are given about equal weight and how many other variables there are besides them shows how hollistic this process is. In other countries and systems, what is standardized carries far far more weight. A 30 requires beating out 74 percent of pre-meds. A 29 68 percent of pre-meds. A 28, 62 percent of pre-meds. Many many people with strong GPAs get in with those scores every single year. When you can get into MD schools with MCAT scores that indicate 1/3 of the testing population is beating you out, there are many that would call that somewhat leinant if anything. Not only that, you have the option of re-taking the MCAT. There's no re-taking a Step 1 in med school.

Your percentiles are a little off for each score by the way. A 30 is a 78 percentile, 29 is a 73, 28 is a 67 and so forth.

If an even higher weight were placed on the MCAT, I would not be surprised if people would totally drop the ball on the GPA their junior year and let it drop hard in order to study for the MCAT more than all of their classes for that entire semester. Do you think thats something that should happen?

 

[SOMBound13]

https://www.aamc.org/download/321466/data/factstable5.pdf

Yeah the 14.7% is accurate. I would agree if your sole goal is to try and get into an MD school as a High schooler(and for most honestly it shouldn't be) then yeah staying in CA and going to those grade deflated UC's and having no worthwhile state of residence isn't the move.

The best thing you could do in that case if you really want to play the odds in your favor is go to a school in a state where it's relatively easy to establish resident status(Idk which ones but I've heard Louisiana is one of them). Go to undergrad there, particularly if it isn't all that competitive of a school, then play the odds inyour favor. West Virginia would be a great state to do this in if they have leinient standards for establishing residency status. Alabama, Kentucky and South Carolina woud also be great states to try and pull this off in if someone is that hell bent on going to an MD school out of high school.

And btw there are many states where the majority of people who get in have to leave the state for med school. That's not CA's biggest problem.

I agree.

If you're from a state where strong stats med school applicants don't have a good chance at an instate acceptance, the high school student who is determined to go to med school should consider attending undergrad in a state tbat has med schools that respect "ties to the state." A few of my OOS undergrad premed classmates had no trouble getting accepted to USA SOM......as long as their stats were good.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Your percentiles are a little off for each score by the way. A 30 is a 78 percentile, 29 is a 73, 28 is a 67 and so forth.

If an even higher weight were placed on the MCAT, I would not be surprised if people would totally drop the ball on the GPA their junior year and let it drop hard in order to study for the MCAT more than all of their classes for that entire semester. Do you think thats something that should happen?

No the percentiles are right it is a range. 30 is 74th-78th percentile. 29 is 69th-73rd percentile. 74th is enough for a 30. Just like a 76th is also a 30.

Nobody is just going to drop the ball like you propose. And even if they do the MCAT is one of those tests which has pretty diminishing returns on preparation after a certain point.

 

[7331poas]

40% of all applicants to MD schools enter a school the next fall. Thats pretty good numbers...

 

[Glazedonutlove]

I am honestly surprised that so many people find the MCAT so hard. Maybe I should just thank my lucky stars that I'm good at standardized tests.

we are so happy for you

 

[Gandyy]

No the percentiles are right it is a range. 30 is 74th-78th percentile. 29 is 69th-73rd percentile. 74th is enough for a 30. Just like a 76th is also a 30.

Nobody is just going to drop the ball like you propose. And even if they do the MCAT is one of those tests which has pretty diminishing returns on preparation after a certain point.

Oh my bad. Nvm then. The rest is your opinion. You have a different opinion than I do about the MCAT.

 

[Cotterpin]

we are so happy for you

No, I just mean . . . it's not impossibly difficult to do okay on the MCAT.

 

[IlDestriero]

If you are not capable of doing well on the MCAT, that may mean that you struggle in school and may have trouble graduating and/or passing the USMLE steps. The MCAT is a standardized exam that assesses your ability to learn and recall large amounts of diverse information that was studied a year or more ago, though maybe recently reviewed. That's like practicing medicine, you learn something important years before and can recall it, maybe review it again, and apply it to the current situation. That's one of the reasons that "you don't know what you don't know" applies to mid levels. They never learned many things at all, thus can't recall and apply that info to uncommon situations.
Remember that many who take the MCAT have little chance of getting in, there is self selection to be sure, but the dreamers exist, and that exam seals their fate. Not everyone can do what they want, and that's probably for the best.

 

[IlDestriero]

Lizzy or Goro or one of the ad com members famously commented that around 1/2 of their applicants had no business applying at all. Zero chance of acceptance.
So a 40% acceptance rate is probably actually pretty good if a significant amount of applicants are wasting their time.

 

[El-Rami]

Lizzy or Goro or one of the ad com members famously commented that around 1/2 of their applicants had no business applying at all. Zero chance of acceptance.
So a 40% acceptance rate is probably actually pretty good if a significant amount of applicants are wasting their time.

This isn't exactly medical school admissions, but I have always been told when writing grants proposals for research, a good portion of proposal writers fail to get the grant because they did not follow instructions. It isn't just because it is competitive, per se. I imagine this is relevant to everything in life where you have to submit paperwork in order to receive something, including medical school admissions. Maybe many people feel more comfortable stating that they did not get in due to extreme competition rather than admit they might have made mistakes that disqualified them in the first place.

 

[steelersfan1243]

I am honestly surprised that so many people find the MCAT so hard. Maybe I should just thank my lucky stars that I'm good at standardized tests.

we are so happy for you

SDN is just a bunch of people who love creating drama

 

[Glazedonutlove]

SDN is just a bunch of people who love creating drama

most of us wouldn't be here otherwise

 

[Gandyy]

If you are not capable of doing well on the MCAT, that may mean that you struggle in school and may have trouble graduating and/or passing the USMLE steps. The MCAT is a standardized exam that assesses your ability to learn and recall large amounts of diverse information that was studied a year or more ago, though maybe recently reviewed. That's like practicing medicine, you learn something important years before and can recall it, maybe review it again, and apply it to the current situation. That's one of the reasons that "you don't know what you don't know" applies to mid levels. They never learned many things at all, thus can't recall and apply that info to uncommon situations.
Remember that many who take the MCAT have little chance of getting in, there is self selection to be sure, but the dreamers exist, and that exam seals their fate. Not everyone can do what they want, and that's probably for the best.

I have heard from multiple credible sources on here including a few faculty members/adcoms that after a 27+ on the MCAT, those students do well or at least pass every Step Exam on the first attempt.

According to allopathic standards a 27 is what many would consider pretty bad.

I agree with your statements on mid level providers.

 

[Lancer]

I have heard from multiple credible sources on here including a few faculty members/adcoms that after a 27+ on the MCAT, those students do well or at least pass every Step Exam on the first attempt.

According to allopathic standards a 27 is what many would consider pretty bad.

I agree with your statements on mid level providers.

Yes, I recall something similar, that after 27 board pass rates are similar. But higher MCAT tends to correlate with higher STEP 1 scores well beyond a score of 27.

 

[Gandyy]

Yes, I recall something similar, that after 27 board pass rates are similar. But higher MCAT tends to correlate with higher STEP 1 scores well beyond a score of 27.

Thats true, but then thats always going to be the case. Someone who makes a 34 on the MCAT is probably just "smarter" than someone who makes a 28 and would most likely do better than the 28 mcat taker on just about any test though given equivalent knowledge bases.

 

[Lawpy]

Many of you are implying that just by taking the MCAT seriously, and exhausting every resource, that everyone should be able to make a 31+ on the MCAT.

I'm here to tell you guys that is not true at all. The med school admissions process is a giant struggle for those having trouble with the MCAT.

I fail to understand your concerns. @Goro @Dral and everyone else assert that medical career emphasizes standardized tests. So MCAT being the main standardized filter to screen out the poor students is actually a good thing since the good students that are admitted can do well in the USMLEs/board/shelf/certification exams.

 

[Gandyy]

I fail to understand your concerns. @Goro @Dral and everyone else assert that medical career emphasizes standardized tests. So MCAT being the main standardized filter to screen out the poor students is actually a good thing since the good students that are admitted can do well in the USMLEs/board/shelf/certification exams.

I understand that. I am explaining something else entirely. I grow tired of discussing this topic to be honest. I'm going to bow out here.

 

[SOMBound13]

The UWSOM class of 270 is misleading. Only 100 or 120 of those students are at the Seattle UW campus. Another 35 are in Boise, ID, 40 or 60 in Spokane, WA, some at the University of Alaska, Montana State University, Wyoming etc. So the 270 students are spread out over 5 states. Seattle has the largest class size, which isn't that big ... 120?

So, UW is essentially running "little SOMs" in these other states? Or am I misunderstanding?

 

[SOMBound13]

I am honestly surprised that so many people find the MCAT so hard. Maybe I should just thank my lucky stars that I'm good at standardized tests.

The MCAT, at least the old one, isn't like typical standardized tests. I'm guessing that new MCAT isn't like typical ones either.

 

[Cotterpin]

The MCAT, at least the old one, isn't like typical standardized tests. I'm guessing that new MCAT isn't like typical ones either.

I only took the new MCAT, so I don't know what the old one was like. Sure, it's not "typical" but it's not so different that it's impossible.

 

[XxThaDoggxX]

I only took the new MCAT, so I don't know what the old one was like. Sure, it's not "typical" but it's not so different that it's impossible.

Certainly wasn't made easy by the lack of prep provided.

 

[Cotterpin]

Certainly wasn't made easy by the lack of prep provided.

For me, the main thing was getting used to doing the questions at that speed and for that length of time. You really only need to do a handful of practice tests as long as you're doing them in "testing conditions." It's like training for distance running where you have to watch your pacing. The rest of it was not that hard, imo.

 

[Krupke]

I have heard from multiple credible sources on here including a few faculty members/adcoms that after a 27+ on the MCAT, those students do well or at least pass every Step Exam on the first attempt.

According to allopathic standards a 27 is what many would consider pretty bad.

I agree with your statements on mid level providers.

I know you bowed out, but a passing Step 1 score is 192. A 190 is the 4th percentile. I think you could understand how a student who will "at least pass" wouldn't be a school's ideal choice.

In many countries, people in the 60th percentile on med school entrance exams would have no chance. Here, plenty of 27s and 28s get to go to MD schools