Is It Always About the Money?

[FML38]

I live in an area where suboxone is only used by doctors basically to get money off of the desperation of addicts which is what drug dealers do. However I will say that buprenorphine is the answer for my personal issue with addiction to opiates. With me there are other contributing factors that should be considered in my treatment as well as others in my same situation. First I was diagnosed with ADHD at 5 years of age but never treated because this was a time when medicating a child was really frowned upon. Put it this way...I have ADHD so severely that I now have spastic colon because I can't even sit on the toilet long enough to have a complete bowel movement. I have also had to have bladder retraining over the same issue. I became an addict of opiates during the late 80's and early 90's between the ages of 13 yrs old and 19 yrs old when I had over 10 surgeries over a serious issue and was prescribed pain meds the whole time. But not once during this time was I informed of the risk of it doing this to my life. I was not taught to "just say no" to a prescription given to me by a doctor. Addiction is a sneaky shady demon. By the time you realize it's presence it's already got you. But yet stigma has conformed society's views on this issue and I have been treated as of no value because I am a "junkie" Your perception of something comes from your knowledge. When you don't educate your knowledge but continue to push your perception it creates stigma. To me this is true ignorance. I pushed my addiction to the limit and exhausted ALL my resources so I wasn't able to pay a doctor the money they want in my area to treat me. Honestly it isnt logical to me how doctors think you can pay them what they are asking for this treatment. Doctors know more than anybody the parts of the brain thats damaged by substance abuse and how it affects the behaviors of addicts in the pursuit of the stimulation of the recieve/reward factor going on in their brain. We are driven by this beyond our control and will end up broke as hell with no resources at all. Honestly everybody I know that pays a suboxone doctor what they charge has to sell half of what they get on the street to be able to pay their doctor bill. Let's be real here. I was making it barely by getting what suboxone I could when I could. I wasnt living but I was existing. Then I had a doctor agree to take my insurance (of course tenncare) and put me on four medicines...Suboxone, adderral, gabepetnin and klonipin. I know people think thats a big mistake with these meds cause I am an addict but I had always had restless leg before they even came out with diagnosing it. Gabepentin is the only medicine thats ever stopped it. The adderral didnt speed me up. It made the world slow down long enough so I could focus on a problem long enough to solve it. I was finally solving things!! I was actually forgetting to take my suboxone until my nose would drip and my body started aching. I had never liked benzos before. But due to methadone use for 5 years since I had detoxed from that I had always had this shaking like issue. It was only taking 0.5 mig a day of the klonipin to make that stop. I almost got to live a year like this and was developing some self confidence thinking for the first time in my life I was gonna get to be the mother my kids deserved. Then BAM! At a dr's appt I am told that they decided to not take my insurance anymore. Now they $150 for their suboxone treatment. And now they can also no longer treat all my issues but they have primary care services that can. It's in the same office and will probably be the same doctor that prescribes my suboxone. But the appts have to be on different days. It costs $150 also. That's $300 I can't get. When I finally got them to answer the phone (cause they never do) I asked what was I suppose to do. She said "well you never had problems getting the money on the street...do what you gotta do" Thats the exact behaviors I am trying to avoid!! When I finally got them to answer the phone (cause they never do) I asked what was I suppose to do. She said "well you never had problems getting the money on the street...do what you gotta do" Thats the exact behaviors I am trying to avoid!! My medicine is running out so I am now scared too death. I finally got a hold of them yesterday. I asked to speak to the office manager. They put me on hold for 10 seconds then someone picked the phone up and hung up on me. I know what I am facing. I don't think I can mentally and physically take anymore. I am exhausted. I just watched a man die while on a surveillance cam in a jail cell where he was incarcerated over a traffic ticket. The only reason we are seeing this is cause someone released it to the public. If it wasn’t for this fact we would have never known this happened and this mans death would have been told as a total different story. He loses 50lbs in 16 days. The last few days not one person comes in to check on him. He ends up completely naked laying on the concrete floor going in and out of seizures while you can visually see his chest cavity going in and out very deep as he fights for his last breathes while going into cardiac arrest and then finally he dies. The comments of how this was perceived by people was so disgusting that I feel it has affected me for life. 90% of the 347 comments were people saying this mans life was of no value because he was a junkie. This guy was an addict and he was going through methadone withdrawals that took his life due to lack of medical care. CONVICTED CHILD MURDERERS ON DEATH ROW GET TO DIE MORE HUMANELY THAN THIS!!! This happened due to stigma. Your perception of things comes from your knowledge. When you don't educate your knowledge but still continue to push your perception it creates stigma. I don't care to come out now about my story cause my life's screwed. My image in this kinda society is not one I care to participate in anymore. I just keep looking at my son asleep beside me. He thinks I am great right now and everything is ok. It takes my breath away to know that next week I will not be able to take care of him cause I will be so sick. This has nothing to do with getting high!! I havent been high in over 15 years. What is so bad about just wanting to stop shaking , hurting and pooping all over your self. Why can't I have 8 mg of buprenorphine everyday for the rest of my life? I am not abusing it. I will be under a doctors care. Why can't I have the medicine thats keeps me from being sick from my disease just like people on thyroid medicine for their disease? What's the difference? I can't help that other people are shooting buprenorphrine into their veins or that it is still sold on the streets. Some people are also injecting vodka into their veins. I am not doing any of these things. I refused to consider myself "still dirty" or "still dependent" just because I am on a medicine that keeps my disease from making me sick. Why aren't diabetics considered addicts because they depend are their insulin? I am sick of a society thats been conformed by stigma. I will never never trust a doctor again. If I had never met a doctor this would have never happened in the first place. No thank you. I will just go tie myself to a fence post. Soak myself in gasoline. Then catch myself on fire. That would be less painfull than this.

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[FML38]

I am a christian. I was saved as a little girl. I have always really got it too.. About what Jesus did for me on that cross. Thru this journey of addiction I have always knew the only reason I wasn't dead yet was because God had His hand on me. I have always had a really close personal relationship with Him. Even within the walls of a jail cell I have went on my knees everyday. But people just assumed I wasn't cause I was an addict. Well you all know how people like to use your past against you. No matter what I did everything has always been all my fault. This past two months theres been changes in me that I can't even explain. I always went thru conviction over my sins. But this was like God was trying to tell me something big. I felt so heavy. Well I started just really noticing how the hypocrites were around me. How fake they are even to each other. I have a strong sense of loyalty about me. But its like I just started noticing the immorality in everyone else. It was starting to hit me that maybe it hasn't always been just me. I started asking others what salvation meant to them. It was like they thought they were going to heaven cause they had that worked out like a math problem. I didnt see signs of any real conviction. Well you know how everyone has always brought our mistakes up to us. I got to thinking. Thats made us face our mistakes and own them. Some of the other people that society places on pedastels that go play church every sunday are always praised and built up by others. It's like some of them have been become in denial of their ownself. Also up until this time I had always knew addiction was a disease but I had been led to believe that God would take this from me. But that always left me feeling like I wasnt giving it all up to Him but I really felt like I was. I would pray so hard for Him to take this from me that I have thrown up before. I was stuck on this. Also others made me feel like as long as I was taking suboxone everyday I was still choosing willing to sin. As I started reading scripture and began to study so hard. It was like God was just letting stuff fall into my lap. First of all once you ask God to forgive you in all humbleness that sin is GONE. NEVER TO BE BROUGHT UP AGAIN. He is not keeping them in His back pocket where they are "adding up" against you. But after you sin two things can happen. One is conviction of the Holy Ghost and one is condemnation of the devil. The Holy Spirit wants to convict you which brings you to God in repentance asking for forgiveness. Once you do that the Holy Spirit wants to uplift you and strengthen you bringing you closer to God and further from that sin. The devil will come at you with shame and guilt trying to do the exact opposite. SO AFTER YOU HAVE ASKED FOR FORGIVENESS FROM GOD IN ALL HUMBLENESS YOU ARE FORGIVEN AND ITS GONE.After that point if its brought up to you again its from the devil don't listen to it. Also after I really understood the process of what addiction does to the brain and what parts are really damaged that affect your reasoning and decision making....when people would tell me to rely on my "faith" it left me thinking something was still within me to heal myself actually cause I have been begging God to take this from me the whole time. Which I know He can. God can come in and do anything He wants to anytime He wants. He is God. I have seen Him come into a situation and heal people in an instant. But that doesn't mean thats what He is going to do or is doing with me. And also people's beliefs and what their faith is varies so much now. Plus how is this any different from telling someone with any other disease to just rely on their faith alone to heal them? Which at no time am I saying God can't cause He can but that's His decision. As much as man wants to take from God but yet when it comes to a disease about something they can't quite concept they wanna throw the responsibility back at Him?!?!? Although when it comes to the twelve steps I do believe an important part of healing is realizing God is in control but you do have to give Him control. And it's not in just a "higher being". It has to be God almighty. But also know that 6+3=9 but so does 5+4. The plan He has for you might be different then the plan He has for me. Even in the end if we get the same solution. So I now believe it's unethical to tell someone with a disease to rely on their faith alone to heal them. Also with suboxone I know personally cause I have had true life experience with all opiates besides heroin. By the time you get to my point in the game of addiction it's not about getting high anymore. I havent been high in 15 years. Well except for a few weeks I have lost with xanax at few times yearsssssss ago lol. Even my mother can attest to the fact that the drive for more and more is not in me with suboxone. It just keeps me from being sick. I don't know about how it is if you abuse it or shoot it into your veins. But like I said kids are shooting vodka into their veins to get now. But I am not. I also have seen really young people getting high off of suboxone. If suboxone gets you high then you aint got no business into this advancement of treatment. You must be still on darvocet. I graduated from that and got on roxys over 15 years ago. Plus if you are that early in addiction theres more of chance for you to reproduce endorphins again. Someone just needs to get you some handcuffs and just lock your butt down somewhere for about 8 to 10 days and save you right now from this road of agony. I wish someone had done that to me when I was still that early into it. Believe me the older you get the harder the withdrawals are on you. Wait until you can look back and see 20 years of your life you wasted to this disease. There isnt anything about this "cool". But I just wanted you all to know that this is where I am coming from and that God is what lead me here. Maybe momma was right after all. They'll be boot leggers in heaven and preachers in hell. Doctors take the hippocratic oath before God. It's sad cause each time it is revised more ethnics are took out of it. I also have read the consumers review on how the drug laws came about all the way back from the begining of the nineteenth century before the supreme court. I cried and broke down reading it. The testimonies on our behalfs as addicts by world recognized mental health professionals that were more or less ignored was devastating to me. I really feel a tho I am the one let down here. This is America where we are on the fast track to communism. I have carried the blame for this long enough. I now hold you all responsible. I am in fact being denied medical treatment and this is neglect. Believe me I am as humble as they come and it took a lot of soul searching before I got the guts to say it like that. This time I am the one disappointed in all of you. I wish there was a way my story reached all the future medical profession. I know I am facing immense suffering. I have been in shock since put in this position. I havent slept in a solid week. I didnt even realize until yesterday that I literally had forgot about eating and hadn't had one bite of food in three days. I am terrified in fear. I have accepted no one is gonna help me. Mark my word. The day will come when bestiality will be accepted, legal and considered normal. You will be able to marry your DOG but yet addicts will be crucified.

 

[dynx]

I have carried the blame for this long enough. I now hold you all responsible..

Great. let me know how that works out for you.

 

[FML38]

I am not sure where you are coming from with that but I already know where assumptions can lead

It's actually working in my favor for once. I am use to taking accountability for all the wrong. Feelings of guilt can be real road blocks for addicts.

I am always left with the burden of thinking everything was always my fault. Which a lot of the times it was lol. But that was more so from my behaviors during when my brain was sicker. I have came a long way since then. This time I know someone else within this particular practice is responsible. It's just that there are four doctors. But since I last posted here I have thought it could be the office staff and the doctors may not be aware of how their staff are handling things. Because I know the lady that said what I quoted she said to me knew exactly what she was implying. But of course I knew she wasn't a doctor. Idk. This could go so many ways at this point. I am sorry if it came across like I was coming at all doctors. I wasn't thinking anyone would reply to this. I just was hurt, scared and felt so betrayed. I just thought this would give doctors in training a situation to think about. But no one will even answer the phone there. It literally took me calling 30 times a day for 5 or 6 days each of the two times I got someone to answer. The first time the woman said "well you never had any problem coming up with the money when you were getting it on the street so you'll figure it out". Then the lasttime all I did was ask to speak to the office manager and I was put on hold by a guy for like 10 seconds and then someone literally picked up the phone and hung up on me. I can't get to the office cause they are 1 hour and 1/2 from me and I have to arrange for transportation. All I know is that I was on medicines for the first time in my life that I remember were working for me from all positive aspects of my well being. So I am taking this as an attack I guess on the only chance I honestly ever felt I have been given in life. So doctors really do need to make sure they know what their whole staff is carrying out as far as the well being of their patients. Because the doctors are also risking a lot here too. I can't get inside the office to speak with anyone about anything physically. Ughhh! Could someone please tell me lets say "hypothetically" speaking how a doctor would want their patient to handle this from the perspective of it being the office staff at fault? Or if it's between a miss communication between 4 different doctors in an office?

It seems as if most of the system and society are such appeasers. They all will feed you to the crocodiles so it doesn't eat them last. Such a pack mentality.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I just know I'm going to regret this...

I see 2 different things you seem upset about. First, paying for care. Look, I'm really sorry how things have turned out for you. I truly mean that, addiction is a terrible thing. But, you can't expect us to work for free. Nor can I fault another physician for dropping what I assume is Tennessee Medicaid. As a rule, it pays poorly and is a terrible bureaucratic hassle. Second, office staff. Clinics that do addiction medicine usually have to be pretty stern about things. As I'm sure you're well aware, mean addicts are supremely adept manipulators. We are not good at differentiating between people who are truly asking for a one-time exception/help versus those doing it without needing to. Its a classic case of a few bad apples ruining it for everyone.

 

[FML38]

Don't regret it please. I appreciate your investment. I feel you are coming from a place of sincerity and you are honestly trying to approach it from your position and looking into my point of view. I repsect that. I am no threat. First ughh you are not getting me. I just wish I could show you the fight I put up for this disease in others. I am driven to kill this monster so bad. I have made it a point to become an advocate to world about this issue. The risk of this needs to be invested into the future generation starting with children. People need to be aware of the genetics of everyone related to their children. My children are not allowed opiates period because I have really educated myself about the genetic predisposition they are in. Even through having their tonsils removed and wisdom teeth removed. I had to even fight about insuring this because people thought I was being cruel. But I'll lay down my life to keep that from happening. I'd rather them suffer a little pain now them a whole lifetime of it. Because of the position of the my own consequences I had put myself in at the time in my life when I met their father this now has me in a difficult spot because he was the biggest drug dealer in the part of the state. That was way back then. But my children are still mine and with me. They are my driving force behind this. Can you imagine being stuck in a nightmare and you can't get out of it. You know this is not a real part of you. You were raised better (keep in mind I never made a choice to do what represented a risk to me at the time I was taking prescription meds) But you can't make yourself wake up. You end up "dancing with the devil". You wake up years later and you have children from that dance. Idk how to explain it. I will tell you this much. There is a no contact order put on their father. But when you have children with someone there's also an entire family that comes with the other parent. I wish you knew how I was raised. I just see so many risks to my kids all the time that I have to intervene for. I can say this tho. I have never put a needle in my body and I have never snorted or took opiates in any other way but by mouth. I had recognized at the time that that was introduced in my addiction that I already had a huge problem. I didnt need to contribute to it. I'll be honest tho. I have tried pot three different times. It made me paranoid and horny at the sametime time. I felt like I needed to hurry up and have sex cause God was coming to get me haha. It was a weird feeling. I didnt enjoy that predicament. I have never done heroin. As far as mean addicts being supremely adept manipulators. I never felt mean. I have never had intent of malice or spiteful behavior. I have seen mean addicts tho. They are ruthless. But I think that combination is coming from their true character a little bit. I may be wrong. But supreme manipulator YES! That was me. I was already raised to be strong and determined for good intentions. I was born with a very strong will. Plus I am very intelligent. Thats not a good combination when mixed with addiction. I totally get what you are saying there. I fight against that everyday with other addicts. The denial is outrageous. I was lucky there tho. I was always the person that had to learn EVERYTHING the hard way. I was the ideal cocktail of the addict that chases that dragon to their death. I feel it had to be the prayers of my mother that made it possible for me to be alive today. Look I have give up on anybody helping me. I am just baring my soul right now and it feels good. I am not in denial here about anything. I am not manipulating anybody at all. I don't know how much more vulnerability I could possibly show to make anybody get it. Intelligence and ADHD are also issues you face a lot of stigma with. Most people relate intelligence with success. Thats not usually the case at all. It's been more of a curse for me. You may relate and already know this I am sure. But as you prolly know...intelligent people are the least likely to find happiness. They are more prone to psychosis, depression and suicide. ADHD is so over diagnosed that a lot of people don't recognize it even as a condition or issue. I even went as far as opening up about how it's affected my bowel movements. Structure and consistency are vital for a productive life. I don't have the ability to maintain that on my own even. I could go on and on with the issues I have with it. I have explained my situation and all the contributing factors. I know what this means for me and everything I have managed to do in the last year. I know what this means for my kids. How people can't tell that I get it...Idk..I have contacted everybody important that should care but they didnt care. They just end up insulting my intelligence by coming back with a plan they probably already had in place to respond to me cause they have stereotyped me. I get responses saying..."We are not the ones you need to be talking to blah blah blah but if you feel you life is in danger or you get suicidal call 911" I mean really??? lol Thats basically saying "We will not help you but if you go into cardiac arrest be sure to ask someone else" And who calls 911 before they commit suicide??? Lets be real here. I don't know where this is going to take me. I begin crying out for help a week ago. But I wasn't expecting help here. I was just thinking I was putting some power in the next generation. If I was still active in my addiction I would already be high now and pursuing my next buzz. I wouldn't be doing the things I am right now. Right now I am just pursuing the my fight for my right at the first chance of life I was given for awhile. This was the one time I had a right to it. where you are coming from is so far from where I am. I get what you are saying and I understand your points. I am not asking anyone to treat me for free. I called 6 different suboxone prescribing doctors and at every single one it was going to be $500 a month for just the doctor bill. Yes I have "government insurance" It doesnt pay for adderrall. That's $75 a month. It doesn't pay for Suboxone or any other buprenorphine meds except Bunavail as of October 1st anymore. I have no lies to tell at this point. Bunavail is not working for anyone that I know that was truly getting somewhere with suboxone. The equivalency isnt right at all. Look at Bunavails sales before they made the deal with Tenncare. It may be working for the purpose in people too early in addiction to be seeking this kinda treatment tho. People that are just trying to kick hydrocodone don't need buprenorphine because they still have a shot at abstinence. I refuse to support that situation.

I know what you are also saying about the approach that you have to sometimes use with addicts. I don't know how at this point that no one can't see that I am aware of things. I am going to attempt to show you how much I am aware of this by showing something from a personal group of mine that I am doing to help people and how I approach that issue. I realize this is for nothing of gain. It feels good tho to be so open. At least I know my story will be somewhere cause I am giving you my absolute truth. I am not throwing out names. But there is stuff I know that I am not saying and I am not going to cause there's no way to put it on one person and know you are right. Representing the truth means more to me then that. Once you ever lose EVERYBODY'S trust all on your own fault it's so hard to get back. There's no way you could realize the capacity that holds unless you have been there.

" Nor can I fault another physician for dropping what I assume is Tennessee Medicaid. As a rule, it pays poorly and is a terrible bureaucratic hassle."

^^your words..I am not using them against you cause I feel you mean well...I am just using them to show you what I mean

I wasn't asking you to fault a doctor. How would I manage that here in random forums on the internet with people that I wouldn't even know. I realize some may be doctors but I am well aware of the protection that probably set up behind you lol. Yes this doctor dropped Tenncare. But this is about so much more than that. I do know that at the same appt. that I was told that he did drop it was at an evening appt were the office was crowded cause people from another "sister" clinic were there trying to talk to them cause they weren't able to get treatment at this other clinic that morning because it was shut down by the FDA for some reason. I never heard the reason. I didnt ask cause that just sounds scary. I don't even know what "sister" clinic means. I don't want to be a part of whatever that is. That just flags trouble for me in my mind. You learn to do that protecting your recovery. I am not trying to go at a doctor here! You are representing an honest person with good intent. Keep in mind this office is also getting cash from patients that have no insurance at all too. They may be going thru what I am and have been paying $500 a month for it! I just don't know how much cause the lasttime I was in the office to talk to anyone I wasn't concerned about this at that time. But reguaurdless I was just thinking that a doctor was aware of the meds he or she had started people on and they should be aware of the consequences that patient would be in to just stop having any access to them at all. Honest people don't think about things like this from the outside of a situation because they don't recognize such betrayal that this would feel like because they have a conscience. You don't see other doctors offices in any other area of profession with patients being put in situations like this. I was put in this situation all in a months time and now I can't even get a hold of them!!! You may not know that I am honest and have my ****ing life back and know what this represents to me BUT THEY DO. Would an honest person take that from someone over just the hassle of insurance and just shut them off completely??? And the way an office staff handles a "mean addict" is not the way I was handled. The response I got wasnt coming from that position. Plus the office staff knew me and knew I wasn't that anyway.


I just wanna show you a little bit of myself. You may never even come back for this reply. Idk. But I do appreciate your attention. I got more words outta you then anybody else lol. but it has actually crossed my mind that I don't need to put no more info out there that leads to me cause someone somewhere may relate it to me somehow from this situation and hire a hit man cause I am running my mouth. You are right as far as how mean people can get when drugs and money are involved. It's just it's not always just the addict. And I am not that kinda addict anymore. That was actually my main point.

 

[DrMason]

Dear FML38.

Before I became a full-time Stone Mason, I also did some Suboxone. I worked at a private clinic where we only did cash, no insurance. In my state Medicaid is an absolute joke and the compliance issues, both for us and the patient made it very hard. Also, a starting Suboxone Doctor can only have 30 patients the first year and max 100 after that.

My patients all had well-paying jobs and paid us $500 a month for Suboxone and all other primary care. We also did hormone optimization and the " back door approach" with GABA/Glutamine receptors. This practice was (is) doing cutting edge business and professional practice. In addition to that the FDA could always show up and you better have good notes. Sometimes addicts diverted the drugs, but it really did not happen much in our practice. Drug diversion and Suboxone is a huge problem in general and especially the Subutex ( for pregnancy), which can be injected. If someone get caught with diverted Suboxone/Subutex, every film has a number on it that can be directly traced back to prescriber.


The thing with Suboxone is that it really IS A WONDER DRUG. People hold all kind of jobs with being on Suboxone, often scrutinized by all kind of " agencies". It is "The Plastic Surgery of addiction Medicine". Sophisticated, totally changes people AND fast, with few adverse effects. It also is popular for the reason that it doesn't drop your hormones as Methadone does. Did you go from Methadone to Suboxone I assume? Did you have much problems tapering the dose before starting Buprenorphine?

All my point here is that Suboxone is vastly superior to Methadone in all ways. It requires more highly skilled and complex care and it enhances functionality and productivity of everyone, while Methadone does the opposite. The government want us all to work for free, while taking all the lability. That is not happening and this attitude was the single reason for me starting to carry and chip rocks all day. I work less and make about the same. This is what happens after all the hate towards physicians in media and popular culture makes it less desirable.

MD:
*A general political will to pay them less!
*Gruelling work hours and if you take call, bye bye to family life, IMHO.
*micro-managed by everyone from the MA/CNA to the CEO.
*More and more red tape.
*the common attitude that we only care about money.

Stone Mason:

* Much harder to tax and regulate the same ways.
*You work as much as you want and there really is little minimum.
*The only micro-management is my wife telling me to clean my boots as I come home.
*We have one office girl that takes care of everything.
*People come b word of mouth and they are happy for us when we say we did good last year.

Suboxone, however, is miracle medicine and once the government takes drug addiction seriously, this will eradicate this problem with regards to opiates.