Is it really that bad?

[URMD]

As an applicant this year, I'm starting to wonder whether my take on medicine is more starry eyed than realistic.

Why? because even though I've done a lot of shadowing and clinical volunteering in a wide variety of medical practices (and loved everything I did) it seems I see so many posts on here about why medicine sucks.

1. student loans ever growing (600k in debt by my time)
2. Lack of sleep
3. Unable to practice the way you wanted to practice medicine when you finish training
4. Compensation sucks
5. Medical school sucks and then residency sucks more

I've experienced a lot of medicine and if i am accepted this cycle I will go, but am I missing some horrible aspect of medicine that I haven't given thought to?
I've tried to educate myself as much as possible on this, because I don't like to be blind sided.

Are there people here who actually enjoy their job/training? Is the general consensus of the average physician that medical school is not worth it?

What am I missing here?

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[Mountaineer12]

I had a similar starry eyed view of med school before starting. At least you're smart and recognize it before school starts. I can only speak to the first two years of med school and I'm sure I have a whole world of suckage out there waiting for me in the next few years, but I'm not sure it's worth it. I think it's the never ending routine. You get up, learn a ton of stuff (way more than a person should have to learn in one day, by the way), have to deal with crap like PBL and TBL, then you go to bed and do if all over again. I get so tired from it all and I sleep 7-8 hours a night. It's just really draining. I love the people I've met in school and I've been interested in a couple of things, but I'm not sure I'd do it again. I'm leaning towards doing pathology because of the life-sucking entity that is residency (plus I'm at least mildly interested in path). I just can't imagine still feeling this way or worse for at least 5 more years. That's probably not at all what you wanted to hear, but you should know that there are people in my class who just love med school so hopefully you'll be one of them.

 

[Jabbed]

The reality of what practicing medicine is lies somewhere in between your starry eyed naivete and the nihilistic tirades that you see on these boards. Just remember that people need a place a bitch and whine about stuff, and anonymous internet boards are an obvious venue for that.

 

[Psai]

As an applicant this year, I'm starting to wonder whether my take on medicine is more starry eyed than realistic.

Why? because even though I've done a lot of shadowing and clinical volunteering in a wide variety of medical practices (and loved everything I did) it seems I see so many posts on here about why medicine sucks.

1. student loans ever growing (600k in debt by my time)
2. Lack of sleep
3. Unable to practice the way you wanted to practice medicine when you finish training
4. Compensation sucks
5. Medical school sucks and then residency sucks more

I've experienced a lot of medicine and if i am accepted this cycle I will go, but am I missing some horrible aspect of medicine that I haven't given thought to?
I've tried to educate myself as much as possible on this, because I don't like to be blind sided.

Are there people here who actually enjoy their job/training? Is the general consensus of the average physician that medical school is not worth it?

What am I missing here?

What you're missing is that when you get to choose how you practice, medicine is awesome. Unfortunately, there are a ton of middlemen who want to steal your money and force you to practice the way they want you to. They will spend your money on stupid things. At one of the hospitals I'm at, they're renovating a floor that they just renovated (wtf?). You will have other people who are not doctors telling you that they can do your job "just as good or even better" than you. You will spend just as much time writing stupid notes that no one reads just to get paid by insurance companies and ward off lawyers as you do actually talking to your patients.

 

[URMD]

But with the ACA and the general shift away from private practice into salaried work for bigger hospitals and medical centers, is it still possible for physicians to practice the way they want to in those conditions? Would that possibility still be there once I am done with my training in 8-10 years?

 

[Pacna]

But with the ACA and the general shift away from private practice into salaried work for bigger hospitals and medical centers, is it still possible for physicians to practice the way they want to in those conditions? Would that possibility still be there once I am done with my training in 8-10 years?

You can have it in any color you want!

 

[SpinalFusion]

Having kids is hard too. Some parts you love, some parts you don't love, and some parts you hate. Sometimes you just got to get some of it off your chest on an anonymous internet forum to complete strangers.

As for me, I wouldn't trade my little chili beans for anything.

 

[URMD]

Having kids is hard too. Some parts you love, some parts you don't love, and some parts you hate. Sometimes you just got to get some of it off your chest on an anonymous internet forum to complete strangers.

As for me, I wouldn't trade my little chili beans for anything.

Well of course with any career/job there are things you like and don't like...but you say that in general you would't trade it in for anything that is reassuring for me to hear.

EDIT: I just noted your status is pre-medical, so you're not in medical school yet? I was really hoping to hear more from people already working in the field

I guess I just have to realize the 'grumpiest speak loudest' bias that u get on any internet forum, SDN included

 

[SpinalFusion]

Well of course with any career/job there are things you like and don't like...but you say that in general you would't trade it in for anything that is reassuring for me to hear.

EDIT: I just noted your status is pre-medical, so you're not in medical school yet? I was really hoping to hear more from people already working in the field

I guess I just have to realize the 'grumpiest speak loudest' bias that u get on any internet forum, SDN included

Appreciated, but just to be perfectly clear. If you take a close look at my status you will clearly see Pre-Medical. I've just taken a different road than most.
Biggest lesson though, is don't ever feel like you are "Locked" into anything. It's your life, and you have to live it. Make the choices that you can live with for the rest of your life. That is the secret to no regrets.

oh ya, that and accepting...

 

[Pacna]

Well of course with any career/job there are things you like and don't like...but you say that in general you would't trade it in for anything that is reassuring for me to hear.

EDIT: I just noted your status is pre-medical, so you're not in medical school yet? I was really hoping to hear more from people already working in the field

I guess I just have to realize the 'grumpiest speak loudest' bias that u get on any internet forum, SDN included

He/She was comparing having kids with working in medicine, and I think that's a fine comparison. There's a lot that sucks. There's a lot that those who choose another route would kill for. Is it enough for you? Nobody can say but you.

 

[URMD]

He/She was comparing having kids with working in medicine, and I think that's a fine comparison. There's a lot that sucks. There's a lot that those who choose another route would kill for. Is it enough for you? Nobody can say but you.

Well as in my OP, if it was up to me I'd say I would love medicine. I was just worried that my love and interest comes from a naive point of view as a pre-med not actually working in the field and that maybe I needed to further educate myself in making this decision

 

[MrGrrrMonster]

Here's my take:

1. I am unsure of how large the loans will be by the time you finish school, so I can't help with this question.
2. Save for my surgery clerkship and overnight calls on some other services, I always managed to get 7,8, even 9 hours of sleep sometimes (10 pm-7am in years 1-2..etc.)
3. I think you will find that there are plenty of ways/opportunities to practice medicine the way you want to. Yes there are hoops that must be jumped through in regards to pre-auth's and the like, but I find there are many physicians practicing medicine in their own "flavor" if you will.
4. Compensation is still pretty darn good in my book (depending on what you do, will most likely make over 100K in all fields, starting jobs in heme/onc (in the community setting) start at 300K...)
5. I guess it is just a matter of opinion, but I didn't really think medical school sucked/sucks. The first 2 years can be dry at times, and yes there will be stress, but I feel that often it is made to sound worse than it is. And I can't speak on residency as I haven't started yet, but I would say you work very hard, but (hopefully) it is doing what you love.

Hope this helps some.

 

[charmiedermie]

As an applicant this year, I'm starting to wonder whether my take on medicine is more starry eyed than realistic.

Why? because even though I've done a lot of shadowing and clinical volunteering in a wide variety of medical practices (and loved everything I did) it seems I see so many posts on here about why medicine sucks.

1. student loans ever growing (600k in debt by my time)
2. Lack of sleep
3. Unable to practice the way you wanted to practice medicine when you finish training
4. Compensation sucks
5. Medical school sucks and then residency sucks more

I've experienced a lot of medicine and if i am accepted this cycle I will go, but am I missing some horrible aspect of medicine that I haven't given thought to?
I've tried to educate myself as much as possible on this, because I don't like to be blind sided.

Are there people here who actually enjoy their job/training? Is the general consensus of the average physician that medical school is not worth it?

What am I missing here?

You're on the Allo forum so a lot of answers will be slanted one way, but i think you've got some of the bases covered. I think what u need to decide is whether the negatives of medicine are deal breakers for u, only some of which u have listed. There also many factors such as the specialty that the person was able to match into, the person's age, where they are in their life that affect whether that person feels it is worth it. There is a lot of delayed gratification in medicine that is hard for people to understand.

Whatever u do, please don't feel that u have to go just bc u got an acceptance. I think @operaman and @NickNaylor may be able to give good advice since they are also nearing the end of their med school journey also.

 

[charmiedermie]

But with the ACA and the general shift away from private practice into salaried work for bigger hospitals and medical centers, is it still possible for physicians to practice the way they want to in those conditions? Would that possibility still be there once I am done with my training in 8-10 years?

If you work for hospitals and medical centers you give up some level of autonomy. You can't just practice how u want.

 

[xeryus]

I'm starting in the fall like you; however, I'm a few years out from undergrad (sorry I know you want to hear from people who have already gone through it, but hear me out). Like you, I had serious reservations about going to medical school (the length of training, debt, etc etc). I took time off after graduating without ever applying to medical school, and I didn't know if I would go back. But I have to say, after working for 3 years in the "real world" I couldn't be happier or more grateful to be able to go back to school. I know every second of it won't be sunshine and rainbows, but at least I feel confident that I explored other possibilities and know that I'm getting into the right field for me. IMO a lot of other jobs suck and I can't see myself enjoying any of the jobs that most of my college buddies are doing. If you feel unsure, maybe you should take a year working in another field you're interested in and go from there.

 

[Frazier]

As an applicant this year, I'm starting to wonder whether my take on medicine is more starry eyed than realistic.

Why? because even though I've done a lot of shadowing and clinical volunteering in a wide variety of medical practices (and loved everything I did) it seems I see so many posts on here about why medicine sucks.

1. student loans ever growing (600k in debt by my time)
2. Lack of sleep
3. Unable to practice the way you wanted to practice medicine when you finish training
4. Compensation sucks
5. Medical school sucks and then residency sucks more

I've experienced a lot of medicine and if i am accepted this cycle I will go, but am I missing some horrible aspect of medicine that I haven't given thought to?
I've tried to educate myself as much as possible on this, because I don't like to be blind sided.

Are there people here who actually enjoy their job/training? Is the general consensus of the average physician that medical school is not worth it?

What am I missing here?

Yeah, shadowing is better than nothing...but it is far from the whole story.

Another possible issue for some is that if you are dead-set on any particular specialty coming in -- and if that specialty is competitive -- there is a chance you might not ever make it into that field. Which I imagine would suck in a "Well, now what? Who am I?" sort of way.

Then there is the whole "losing out on your 20's thing" although, I'm not 100% behind that ideal [as your aren't a prisoner in solitary -- you can still have a life if you choose].

Another issue is that you have a higher risk than the average joe of being sued. From what I hear if/when this happens, you tend to see medicine/patients in a whole new light (not in a good way).

Then there is the whole stress of just doing medicine in and of itself -- witnessing horrible things, giving terrible news, etc.

There seems to be a growing segment of the population that has zero respect for physicians. You need to only read comments on any online news article/youtube video to come across some infuriating statements.

If you end up getting 'med student syndrome' that sucks a lot too while experiencing it.

That said, as someone about a month away from finishing MS2, I believe I would choose to go this route again if I could go back in time. Although, I would likely choose to do some shadowing in both dentistry and podiatry to learn more about those fields...can't comment on them besides what I see on SDN, they sound like okay alternative professions to medicine.

 

[e30ftw]

No. The path to becoming a physician isn't bad at all. It's an excellent opportunity.

Take out the least loans possible for medical school and match into a well-paying specialty that interests you.

I had far more free time in med school than in college. College probably gets the nod for being more fun, but thats just because of the stage of life you're in.. typically in med school you don't have to work so as long as you do well in school the rest of your time is free. Learning to study takes some effort, but if you're generally adept you'll do fine. I studied, got good boards scores and spent a lot of time at the beach, going out, chilling at home, etc. It's frustrating because you're not making money/contributing and taking out loans to live is a terrible feeling, but overall it really isn't that bad. fwiw I lived on $10k a year but still managed to enjoy myself.

Residency is way better than med school. It is the time when you learn how to do your job. Residency justs sucks because at the beginning you're pretty inept so there are many challenges you must overcome in learning to be competent.

I did EM and in July am starting a job where I definitely feel well compensated.

Med school is better than many, many alternatives.

I still can't think of another option in college that would've been better.

 

[BurghStudent]

It's no doubt that med school sucks. I think a lot of people are cut out for the intellectual vigor of medical school. But only a subset of those can take the physical demands. When you're finally in practice, add to that administrative bs, bureaucracy, and a system of healthcare where all of a sudden, everyone has the platform to question your every judgment.

Ask yourself what you want out of life.

Me, I still want this career. I need the stimulation. Anything else would be too boring, too low stakes.

 

[NickNaylor]

But with the ACA and the general shift away from private practice into salaried work for bigger hospitals and medical centers, is it still possible for physicians to practice the way they want to in those conditions? Would that possibility still be there once I am done with my training in 8-10 years?

If anything working for employers makes it less likely that you will have the autonomy to practice as past physicians did. Medicine is little more than a business at this point, and physicians are little more than highly trained workers.

 

[Ol'Lady]

If anything working for employers makes it less likely that you will have the autonomy to practice as past physicians did. Medicine is little more than a business at this point, and physicians are little more than highly trained workers.

but does working for an employer alleviate the malpractice burden?

 

[armoman92]

1. student loans ever growing (600k in debt by my time)
2. Lack of sleep
3. Unable to practice the way you wanted to practice medicine when you finish training
4. Compensation sucks
5. Medical school sucks and then residency sucks more

I'll add one to your list.

6. Constantly dealing with people who b!tch about stuff.
(sounds insensitive, but as you get desentizied, the effect adds up.)

 

[NickNaylor]

but does working for an employer alleviate the malpractice burden?

Usually malpractice is covered, but that comes at a price.

 

[Ol'Lady]

but does working for an employer alleviate the malpractice burden?

also, i don't know about every specialty, but autonomy appears to be a relative term.

i'm a med tech and work with pathologists that are employed by the company. compared to the hospitals, our company has way better technology as far as the testing goes-so the docs at our company can feel free to dig deeper into a case, and they way billing is set up, the docs at the company are not as limited as the ones at the hospital.
i think there are independent offices that send their stuff to us, but alot of times they seem to end up referring the more difficult (and thus interesting) cases back to our docs who have the resources and experience. i suppose they are "highly trained workers" but they're trained to recognize weird, specific, and interesting abnormalities. if that's what they wanted to do as a profession, then i would think they are being autonomous in that sense...

 

[Straw Hat]

My take...

Medicine is a job just like anything else. You provide a service and no matter how much you feel it's a calling or how much joy you get out of it, as soon as you have demands and responsibilities you owe to other people it becomes a lot less fun and appealing. No one wants to be told what to do, how to do it, etc. But that's life for the majority of people who have to work. What you have to realize is that the majority of people in all other fields have it just the same as you. The grass just always seems greener. Especially if you've never worked another job before. Did I make the right choice? That businessman/engineer/etc over there seems much happier. Who knows. You have to find a happy middle ground and be content that any job is going to have parts that suck and parts that are rewarding. I think the biggest factors in how happy you are in medicine is

1. You can't be going into it solely for money and you have to enjoy what you're doing / find your niche in medicine
2. How much debt you are in going into residency. Having that much money hanging over ones head and having to delay gratification till after residency or even years after would be quite stressful imo and seems like a major factor in burn out / depression / job satisfaction / etc.

 

[NickNaylor]

also, i don't know about every specialty, but autonomy appears to be a relative term.

i'm a med tech and work with pathologists that are employed by the company. compared to the hospitals, our company has way better technology as far as the testing goes-so the docs at our company can feel free to dig deeper into a case, and they way billing is set up, the docs at the company are not as limited as the ones at the hospital.
i think there are independent offices that send their stuff to us, but alot of times they seem to end up referring the more difficult (and thus interesting) cases back to our docs who have the resources and experience. i suppose they are "highly trained workers" but they're trained to recognize weird, specific, and interesting abnormalities. if that's what they wanted to do as a profession, then i would think they are being autonomous in that sense...

This is very different than what you might see with, say, a PCP.

 

[Ol'Lady]

This is very different than what you might see with, say, a PCP.

agreed.

 

[URMD]

Here's my take:

1. I am unsure of how large the loans will be by the time you finish school, so I can't help with this question.
2. Save for my surgery clerkship and overnight calls on some other services, I always managed to get 7,8, even 9 hours of sleep sometimes (10 pm-7am in years 1-2..etc.)
3. I think you will find that there are plenty of ways/opportunities to practice medicine the way you want to. Yes there are hoops that must be jumped through in regards to pre-auth's and the like, but I find there are many physicians practicing medicine in their own "flavor" if you will.
4. Compensation is still pretty darn good in my book (depending on what you do, will most likely make over 100K in all fields, starting jobs in heme/onc (in the community setting) start at 300K...)
5. I guess it is just a matter of opinion, but I didn't really think medical school sucked/sucks. The first 2 years can be dry at times, and yes there will be stress, but I feel that often it is made to sound worse than it is. And I can't speak on residency as I haven't started yet, but I would say you work very hard, but (hopefully) it is doing what you love.

Hope this helps some.

I'll add one to your list.

6. Constantly dealing with people who b!tch about stuff.
(sounds insensitive, but as you get desentizied, the effect adds up.)

So then it looks like I can cross lack of sleep off the list, as long as im smart with my time in general I will be able to get my sleep hours most of the time. Thats good to hear as I love my sleep. I understand this varies by specialty. But at least in medical school this won't be a problem

Ill add no. 6 to the list

and ill add high sueing liability to the list as well.

So far what I see is that in general medicine can be horrible or it can be good - there isn't some blaring truth I am missing in my assesment, I just have to find my niche that I am comfortable working in and be happy there

It's not so bad after all - thanks guys!

 

[armoman92]

Ill add no. 6 to the list

and ill add high sueing liability to the list as well.

Everyone is look for a free paycheck nowadays. When you drive in Manhattan, you'd be amazed how many people are willing to
test if you'll run over them.

 

[URMD]

Sorry, why did this get moved to pre-med? I put it in medical because I wanted to hear opinions from those already in the medical field and it seems like they follow threads in the medical section more. Is it stratified so that pre-meds can only post in pre-med? I would like this to be in medical please

 

[armoman92]

Sorry, why did this get moved to pre-med? I put it in medical because I wanted to hear opinions from those already in the medical field and it seems like they follow threads in the medical section more. Is it stratified so that pre-meds can only post in pre-med? I would like this to be in medical please

I think it's because this topic has been raised on the Medical forum countless times.

They got sick of it, and decided to let us pre-meds philosophize away.

 

[bc65]

1. student loans ever growing (600k in debt by my time)

This won't be such a big deal. You'll pay them off in due time, but it should enter your calculations when you look at your anticipated career earnings.

2. Lack of sleep

This is a big problem in med school, worse in residency, and a problem in practice, also, although this will vary with specialty and practice situation. It's not as bad as it was when I did my residency. 80 hours a week is the maximum now, but it was my short week when I was a resident. My long week was 145 hours +. I survived, but I wouldn't recommend it.

3. Unable to practice the way you wanted to practice medicine when you finish training

Life is always like that. Compromises are always made, for various reasons. I didn't find this to be a big problem.

4. Compensation sucks

Hard to say. Physicians have the highest average compensation of any profession, but per hour, not so much when you take med school and residency into account.

5. Medical school sucks and then residency sucks more

True, and I haven't made up my mind about being an attending.

Would I do it again? I really don't know. You only get to live life one way, and if I had done something else I might have complained about that and wished that I could be a doctor instead.

The main thing that you have going for you is that you're thinking aobut it, so you are prepared for difficulties. You are already NOT starry-eyed.