Is it worth it?

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meezus

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So I have made a post on here once about my situation in great detail, but now I am sure of what I want to do and I just don't want to commit if I do not have a decent chance. So I'll re-describe my predicament right now but without as much (probably useless) detail.

I am almost 23 years old. I graduated 10 months ago with a bachelor's degree in psychology. Didn't know what I wanted when I graduated, worked for 2 months in a sales position, hated it, quit and decided to take time to really think about and discover my interests while taking over my family's business while my father got sick. Now, after looking back at my courses and brushing up on some research, I have decided that I am very interested in neuroscience. I was afraid to pursue it in college because I had already attained a bad academic record and I was just taking those courses because I was very interested in them.

Here's the bad (if not terrible): My GPA was pretty terrible, a 2.65. And my transcript track record is quite embarrassing, every quarter aside from my last 2 quarters before graduation I had achieved less than a 3.0, in fact they were in between the 2.45 and 2.8 range on average, but did go as low as 1.04 one quarter (this was due to anxiety/psychological issues that prevented me from going to class). Not to mention I dropped out of a bio 101 class, two precalculus classes, and liberal arts class. Other than that, my grades for most classes were between a B and C-. My aforementioned last two classes before graduation, I received a 3.83 GPA and a 3.7 GPA, respectively.

I know I didn't try hard and grades were not a priority. I was under the impression that I just needed to get that piece of paper known as a diploma and go out and take any job that would hire me. My work ethic throughout school was terrible and I was 17 when I went to college, so my reason for going to school was honestly to leave my parents house so I can move somewhere, meet people, and party. I have accepted and come to terms with that. Now I probably sound like every other kid in a situation similar to mine, but I have CHANGED. I have separated myself from those influences that dragged me down and my work ethic has matured. My heart is in medicine and in particular, neuroscience. I am ready to sign up for classes to start my path at taking premed courses to get my postbacc. My question is, if I register for these classes and get straight A's in my courses, while volunteering and trying to take on some ECs, do I have a shot at fulfilling my dream? Or is med school and becoming a neurologist out of the question? I need to move on with my life and get on the road to a career, and I'm in this predicament because this field is what fascinates me.

Also, would I need to do a complete post bacc? Or should I take all of the medical school prereqs at the community college (which I have none done in my first degree, so it would be a good way to start and maintain a high sGPA?) and then prep/take the MCAT then apply?

I had heard from my last post about this topic people telling me that med school is one of those doors I could have closed and locked on my self through my behaviors and habits in my first undergraduate degree. I really don't want to come to terms with that, but I guess I have to if it is true. Can someone help me out? Is getting an MD degree REALLY impossible and unattainable if you messed up in your first bachelor's degree? Should I try to find another passion and attain it? I am for sure going back to school regardless, there are simply no jobs in my field where I live, let alone anything that would hire me without some experience. The entry level jobs for people like me right now are BS sales and cold calling positions.

Please help (constructively :) )

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Hi there. Completely new to this forum, browsing around. Congrats, you get to be my first reply. So take that with a grain of salt as well, my advice might not be much to you vs. others that may reply here. I'm just going to give you my heart-felt opinion and (hopefully) provide you with some motivation.

Reading your post, I don't think you are completely doomed. Others on here may disagree with me, but if this forum has provided me anything, it's HOPE.

I'm 26, and starting my first full time semester at a local community college, hoping to obtain my Associates, and onto a bachelors, and then Naturopathic medical school... So no, I won't be taking an MCAT, and my application process is completely different then many, many other students on here. I just wanted to give a touch of background information.

The things that drew me to reply to your post: you quote, "I am for sure going back to school regardless, there are simply no jobs in my field where I live, let alone anything that would hire me without some experience." So DO THAT first. Go back to school, the rest can come and go, fall into and out of place, etc while you go along. I come from that sales, cold calling, call center dead world as well!!! Why do you think I quit and started waitressing at two different jobs to have the means and schedule to go to school for the first time since High School??

I would like you to answer, why exactly are you screaming Neurosciences?? Did something specific happen in your life that gave you this epiphany? If you are questioning this path, perhaps it's a good idea to back to the beginning; to when this path was REVEALED to you, and find out exactly what invoked that passion. It might help you answer a few of these own questions and/or fears.

If you TRULY are afraid and believe you won't make it, you won't. Period. I'm not being extremely hopeful in such an unrealistic way to say that all Medical Students made it on rainbow farts. What I am saying is if you do not try you will never know. True? Worst case scenario, you get denied application when it's time for Med School, and you find another medical based career that doesn't involve calling all your neighbors trying to sell some stupid gimmick on the phone. Or perhaps just going back to school again might help you find another calling.

I guess I'll stop ranting for now, maybe some other replies might come your way. Feel free to respond to anything I have typed up, or even send me a personal message. I have a feeling I'll be on these boards from now on quite often.

Cheers,
Kate
 
I am actually honored to be your first reply! Means it was probably compelling or interesting enough for you to at least take the time to hear me out :)

I'll respond to a couple of your observations and hopefully clear a little bit of it up. I am going back to school either way, at this point it is a matter of for what. If it is simply not feasible to get into an American medical school even with a straight A record while taking these prereqs or completing a post-bacc and extracurriculars, it's just not worth it.

While I do believe you can do anything you set your mind to, med schools obviously have set a standard of what they are looking for. The chances of me getting in are what I needed to know with this future plan I have. But even with the post-bacc and doing great, I am already at a disadvantage because of my transcript, the schools will be uncontrollably biased just because of that. I guess the reason I am "afraid" is that I may have locked the door of getting into a med school due to my performance during my first degree, even though I plan on busting my a** like never before if enrolling in school. I guess I'm afraid that even with doing spectacular at the community college, the damage that I had done during my first 4.5 years is beyond repair. I'm not afraid of failing or getting a 3.3 while taking the prereqs at the community college because I am now too motivated to let that happen.

The reason I am screaming neurosciences is because it was the one part in my curriculum as a psychology major that absolutely fascinated me. In fact I am not questioning it at all, I know this is what I want. I honestly wish I had majored in behavioral neuroscience, but by the time I discovered my passion for it, I had already declared my major (which was how I was able to take those upper level neuroscience classes). I'd love to send a private message and further discuss this; I need all the input I can get!
 
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I'm half way through reading your post and I have read the word afraid 3 times. (just a note)
I again, may be the completely wrong person to add to this, but I don't think you have NOT A CHANCE in the world just because of your previous degree and what you consider to be a failure. You have the degree, that's awesome. And especially if you kick ass with going back to school, you can use this as part of your story/application process of how you failed due to weaknesses, grew and learned from said mistake, and have now blossomed into the amazing person that stands before the interviewer at "XYZ" Med school because you saw the error of your ways. (That's just me trying to point out some awesome obviousness out of a crap situation, that is in the PAST now mind you.)

Can I as kindly and (non-rudely) as possible ask you how long it has now been that you KNOW this is what you want as you have described in your last paragraph?

Again, I'm still new here, and finding this forum a wealth of knowledge. But one thing I've learned to dismiss just a tad from these pages already, is that many people here are extremely hard on themselves, and I understand that there are a plethora of things I have no clue about yet being a beginning non-traditional pre-med, but it seems that there have been plenty of success stories with low GPAs. Have you found those sticky posts and forum threads yet?? I've been reading them for the last two hours.
 
Hey, the third "afraid" was actually a "not afraid", so that one is ruled out lol.

I have known that this has been my interest since I took my first neuropsychology class, particularly with brain scans, disorders and drugs. I'm curious as to why you keep asking that?

Again, me being afraid is not necessarily the issue. I just need to know if it is feasible. Because if it isn't a physically attainable reality for me, then I understand I would have to let that go and possibly find something else to have a career in. I have come to terms with that. I don't think I am too hard on myself, I actually have faith in myself that I could get 4.0s in my prereqs. Because if there is a chance that I could get in, I am 100% willing to take it. But the application process for med school is a numbers game in the grand scheme of things. I am a realist, I understand and accept that medical school and the application process is very rigorous and there is a standard that the admissions staff look for. Again, I am mainly worried that I screwed up too much in my past degree in order to make that up (which I have been told in my previous posts by certain people. All opinions are taken into account).

But thank you, it helps to hear from someone that I still do have a chance at this because it's hard to make people believe (admissions are the people that truly matter lol) that I have matured and am ready to take this on. I'm no longer that 19 year old kid who wants to chase skirts and do keg stands. I am actively trying to make for the best and most personally satisfying career that I can make for myself.
 
I do really think you have a shot. From what I have read on here so far, and what I know of, GPA is not everything. As I have learned and will agree, get your butt in some vollunteer and Extra Carricular activities stat, make sure that you keep a 4.0 when you do head back to school, make sure that Neuroscience is the true passion that is enough to keep you motivated through all of this (that's why I keep asking) because expecially with you now joining us as a "Non-traditional" student, you have to climb even further and work even harder, and in the end as you said, you can actively try. Check out those posts I listed and let's be friends. Hah.

Oh, and I take offense to you inferring that chasing skirt has anything to do with bad grades, gosh darnit. My boyfriend (also a full time student with me at the community college) swears that you get better grades when you're lacking the desire to "chase a skirt". So keep chasing those skirts, it might help with the 4.0. ;) ;) ;)
 
Oh, and I take offense to you inferring that chasing skirt has anything to do with bad grades, gosh darnit. My boyfriend (also a full time student with me at the community college) swears that you get better grades when you're lacking the desire to "chase a skirt". So keep chasing those skirts, it might help with the 4.0. ;) ;) ;)
I'm going to loudly disagree with this. I think this is terrible advice. OP absolutely should drop the stupid frat boy cr@p and get his act together.

OP- check out the http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/below-3-0-gpa-support-group-thread.1015398/ and use the search function to dig up more on low gpa, DIY post-baccs and SMPs, especially anything DrMidlife has to say on the subject. It is possible to do what you want to do, but it will be a long hard slog over several years of 4.0 academic effort.
A 2.65 shows you're not prepared (or possibly capable) of getting through med school. If you want to show an adcom that you are capable of getting through med school, you would need a minimum of 2 years of very hard, full out, undergrad level science course work with absolutely nothing below an A-, preferably 4.0.

You're never going to get that gpa up to standard competitive levels. What you can do is show that you've matured through essentially redoing your past failures. Reinvention is valued at some places, but you have to, ya know, actually reinvent yourself. Skirt chasing will not help that.
 
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Lol. If you can see, I never agreed with that statement. In fact, I said I am no longer that 19 year old kid who was chasing skirts.

Please do not take this as disrespect because I do appreciate your response, but it seems like you may have only taken a very brief glance at my post. I think that it is statements like this that discourage me, when I am being reiterated things that I have already addressed and know I need to change. I already know this is going to be an uphill battle unlike any other as far as academics goes. I already know that a 2.65 is no where near good enough, but the whole point of this is that I've changed. Those grades do not reflect me as a student because I wasn't one. I was more of a party promoter (lol). It was on my parents' dime and I was too immature to realize the importance of school and I had to face the academic consequences. It seems like you're telling me what I have addressed previously in my original post. I am obviously looking to show admissions that I have changed and I am completely capable of rocking medical school and I believe I have found one, by taking these classes, acing them, and devoting my life to ECs and MCAT preparations. I finally know that medicine is where my heart is.

I have looked at the under 3.0 thread and honestly, it's great to see that some people are working through their battles and struggles, but I'm more concerned about my specific situation so I created my own post because for me to actually pursue this and give the next several years of my life to this, I am looking for more personal and direct advice instead of having one person respond to a post in a thread of hundreds of concerned nontraditional students. Or I'm just an attention *****.

All I'm asking is if it can be done with my track record. Even by getting 4.0s in all my courses, is that good enough? Or do I save the time, not risk the post bacc work and try to find another passion?

Also, I want to know whether I should attend the community college and take all the premed courses and MCAT, work on my ECs then apply, or if I should actually get another degree or something like in bio or chem.

If someone can give a somewhat specific time line of how long this might take, I would really appreciate that!
 
Just want to make it known that the comment about keeping up with the chasing skirt was more of a joke, not to be taken as 100% serious advice. More along the lines of don't lose yourself.

*Edit to add: I think the response you got was short and simple and I don't think it was meant for them to discourage you. I think you took it the wrong way, just as you took my comment about chasing skirt the wrong way. I think the bottom line is yes, it is a possibility. That's the shortest, simplest answer you can get from your original question, right?

*Edit again to add once more (and then I promise I'll shut up). I want to know what the heck is wrong with community college, EVER? You pay less for the same classes often, and for the most part, you can transfer your credits DIRECTLY to any local university if you want to pursue further. I would say just be very careful in your class choices, and yes, you would only succeed if you made sure of keeping a 4.0 from NOW ON no matter what. Hopefully you get some more advice elsewhere on here.
 
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All I'm asking is if it can be done with my track record. Even by getting 4.0s in all my courses, is that good enough? Or do I save the time, not risk the post bacc work and try to find another passion?

Also, I want to know whether I should attend the community college and take all the premed courses and MCAT, work on my ECs then apply, or if I should actually get another degree or something like in bio or chem.

If someone can give a somewhat specific time line of how long this might take, I would really appreciate that!

The question OP is asking is if it is attainable in his situation?

The answer is Yes. I understand that you have seen the underdog threads here and will be direct with your question. With your current GPA, it will definitely be a great undertaking. There are two routes you can go.
1) If you are adamant about getting an MD, then you will need to get your GPA up to a least a 3.0 (both cumulative and science). Then you will need to take a special master program (SMP). This will show medical schools you are capable of medical school level work.
2) If you are fine with DO school, then you will need to get your GPA as high as your can, at least a 3.0. The great thing about DO schools are the grade replacement policy. So whatever courses you did bad in, will be replaced with your most recent coursework. So if you had an F in economics and you retook that course and got an A, then only the A will count (if this were MD then the grade will be averaged).

The route that will be the fastest is the DO route. I could see this taking you 2 years to achieve a GPA enough for the DO schools to look at you. If this were MD, it could take you several years longer, even with a good MCAT. So in your situation, it is possible, however be open to the fact you will need to be okay with ANY medical school in the US.

My suggestion to you is
1) Make sure you are seeing a school psychologist about you anxiety issues. I say this because I too had to deal with anxiety issues (I was diagnosed with clinically high levels of anxiety) and seeing a psychologist helped me find balance with my studying.
2) See a learning specialist about how to study. No, this is not a tutor it is completely different. A learning specialist looks at how you study and helps you figure out methods to retain, understand, and apply information. They help you with study techniques and how to tackle tests.
3) Try to get a track record with 3.5-4.0 GPA. You want to be consistently getting this GPA range every semester, nothing less.
4) Try to volunteer in a hospital and shadow a physician. See if medicine is for you.

The low GPA success stories show that it is possible even in your situation to go to medical school, however the road is long and you need to excel with consistency. Good luck!
 
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IslandStyle808, that is very encouraging and a response spot on to what I was looking for. I appreciate you directing your response specifically to my situation. In fact, after a few emails I have meeting with the advisor at my community college on Friday to talk about what my course of action could be to pursue this. I have a buddy who works at Harborview Medical Center here in Seattle and I will be speaking with him to see if he can help me with volunteer work there.

Also if you don't mind, I'd love to chat about that learning specialist and a couple other q's.

Kate, thank you for your advice and time as well, I found it very encouraging in a constructive criticism type of way and that's what I need!
 
IslandStyle808, that is very encouraging and a response spot on to what I was looking for. I appreciate you directing your response specifically to my situation. In fact, after a few emails I have meeting with the advisor at my community college on Friday to talk about what my course of action could be to pursue this. I have a buddy who works at Harborview Medical Center here in Seattle and I will be speaking with him to see if he can help me with volunteer work there.

Also if you don't mind, I'd love to chat about that learning specialist and a couple other q's.

Kate, thank you for your advice and time as well, I found it very encouraging in a constructive criticism type of way and that's what I need!

I suggest getting in touch with your local MD or DO school and try to talk with an admission faculty member. They are very helpful people also. I even have faculty members looking at my personal statement.

If you have any other questions, just let me know.
 
Lol. If you can see, I never agreed with that statement. In fact, I said I am no longer that 19 year old kid who was chasing skirts.

Please do not take this as disrespect because I do appreciate your response, but it seems like you may have only taken a very brief glance at my post. I think that it is statements like this that discourage me, when I am being reiterated things that I have already addressed and know I need to change. I already know this is going to be an uphill battle unlike any other as far as academics goes. I already know that a 2.65 is no where near good enough, but the whole point of this is that I've changed. Those grades do not reflect me as a student because I wasn't one. I was more of a party promoter (lol). It was on my parents' dime and I was too immature to realize the importance of school and I had to face the academic consequences. It seems like you're telling me what I have addressed previously in my original post. I am obviously looking to show admissions that I have changed and I am completely capable of rocking medical school and I believe I have found one, by taking these classes, acing them, and devoting my life to ECs and MCAT preparations. I finally know that medicine is where my heart is.

I have looked at the under 3.0 thread and honestly, it's great to see that some people are working through their battles and struggles, but I'm more concerned about my specific situation so I created my own post because for me to actually pursue this and give the next several years of my life to this, I am looking for more personal and direct advice instead of having one person respond to a post in a thread of hundreds of concerned nontraditional students. Or I'm just an attention *****.

All I'm asking is if it can be done with my track record. Even by getting 4.0s in all my courses, is that good enough? Or do I save the time, not risk the post bacc work and try to find another passion?

Also, I want to know whether I should attend the community college and take all the premed courses and MCAT, work on my ECs then apply, or if I should actually get another degree or something like in bio or chem.

If someone can give a somewhat specific time line of how long this might take, I would really appreciate that!
I actually did read through your first post. It didn't take me long because I've read almost the exact same thing at least once a month since I joined SDN. I pointed out the sub-3.0 gpa thread so that you can go read the details of how all those other people have actually done it instead of it getting retyped here for the thousandth time. All your questions can be answered there, or in the success thread, by people who have done it. If I have to spell out every detail for you than I begin to doubt that you have the initiative or determination to do what needs to be done here. Due diligence and all...

And the bit about reinventing yourself... you have nothing to show for it that you've mentioned here, so why should I believe you? You say you've turned it around (in 10 months no less), but here you are asking if you should sign up for post-bacc classes. I see no evidence. Right now those grades you've got absolutely do reflect you as a student, and will continue to until you have others to put up next to them. You can't just talk the talk.
Because I can guess pretty well what's going through your head right now, no, this is not me being a b!tch. This is the tough love talk. If you can't convince a random stranger on the internet with a bare bones rendition of your reinvention, how on earth do you expect to convince an adcom? Hmm?
 
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I actually did read through your first post. It didn't take me long because I've read almost the exact same thing at least once a month since I joined SDN. I pointed out the sub-3.0 gpa thread so that you can go read the details of how all those other people have actually done it instead of it getting retyped here for the thousandth time. All your questions can be answered there, or in the success thread, by people who have done it. If I have to spell out every detail for you than I begin to doubt that you have the initiative or determination to do what needs to be done here. Due diligence and all...

And the bit about reinventing yourself... you have nothing to show for it that you've mentioned here, so why should I believe you? You say you've turned it around (in 10 months no less), but here you are asking if you should sign up for post-bacc classes. I see no evidence. Right now those grades you've got absolutely do reflect you as a student, and will continue to until you have others to put up next to them. You can't just talk the talk.
Because I can guess pretty well what's going through your head right now, no, this is not me being a b!tch. This is the tough love talk. If you can't convince a random stranger on the internet with a bare bones rendition of your reinvention, how on earth do you expect to convince an adcom? Hmm?

Lol. Of course I haven't done anything to show for it yet and you're right, it's only been 10 months. But I can tell you that my mentality about school, success and where I want to take my future career, has changed. Going back to you're point that I simply "haven't done anything", That is what I am planning on doing with this classes and start to take up ECs. There's got to be a starting point to everything, and this is it.

I'm not asking if I should take post bacc classes because regardless, I will be going back to school. Its just a matter of me following me dream or finding something else. Maybe you're confused. I'm asking if it is ultimately worth it and if I do achieve 4.0s all around, or whether it's just not actually possible within the scope of admissions regardless if I'm an honors student in post bacc.

And yes, sorry that I wanted to create a specific post with regard to my situation. If it bothered you that much that I'm asking the questions for "the thousandth time", you certainly didn't have to take the time to write a response, let alone read beyond the point you felt this was a broken record. And this isn't me being a b*tch either. But when someone says they don't believe I have the initiative or determination, I take that as an insult and will be firing back. For me to say that I am willing to put 10 years if physically possible within the realm of medical school to achieve my dream, that sounds like a tad bit of determination. I know I haven't DONE it yet but I am working towards it. This is the whole point of me taking extra classes and doing ECs. And quite frankly, your opinion that I don't have the determination is pretty offensive. I'm sensing where your coming from, and with all due respect, I don't think I would like any more of your advice. Thank you.
 
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OP, yes, you have "a shot," but it's going to be a multi-year effort for you to rehab your GPA into something semi-respectable, especially if you're not willing to consider DO schools. I suggest the following:

1) Sign up for one class next semester, and make it your business to make an A. That's your goal: one A in one class. Once you do that, you can look into taking two classes the next semester, and so on, until you build up to a full load. But remember, making straight As (or as close to it as possible) is more important than finishing the post bac quickly. So don't take on more than you can handle.

2) Do not sign up for CC colleges. You are a guy or gal with something to prove. Therefore, you should make it your business to take classes at the most rigorous four year university you can reasonably attend, not at a CC. The engineering major with a 3.8 GPA who needs to take bio I and II, sure, it's fine for him to take a couple of CC classes. But that's not you.

3) Definitely start shadowing/volunteering if you haven't already. You're better off doing a little over a longer period of time (years) than cramming it all in over a couple of days, or, even worse, going on a "medical mission," which is basically a glorified vacation for you and will not win you much respect in the eyes of adcoms.

4) Don't be so defensive. Keep in mind that people who have been where you are now and have gotten to where you hope to be some day are volunteering their time to reassure you that you are not somehow less redeemable than every other sub-3.0 GPA candidate who posts here asking the exact same question you just did. And for the price you're paying for our advice, even if you don't like it, try to at least appreciate it and learn something from it.

Hope this helps, and best of luck to you.
 
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I'm asking if it is ultimately worth it
Nobody can answer this but you. For anything.
or whether it's just not actually possible within the scope of admissions regardless if I'm an honors student in post bacc.
We already answered this several times over ("look- here's all the other people who did it")
And yes, sorry that I wanted to create a specific post with regard to my situation. If it bothered you that much that I'm asking the questions for "the thousandth time", you certainly didn't have to take the time to write a response, let alone read beyond the point you felt this was a broken record.
No I didn't have to, but I did. Because when I was in your shoes, what helped me was a dose of reality, so here I am trying to help you with some reality.
And this isn't me being a b*tch either. But when someone says they don't believe I have the initiative or determination, I take that as an insult and will be firing back. For me to say that I am willing to put 10 years if physically possible within the realm of medical school to achieve my dream, that sounds like a tad bit of determination. I know I haven't DONE it yet but I am working towards it. This is the whole point of me taking extra classes and doing ECs. And quite frankly, your opinion that I don't have the determination is pretty offensive.
I never said you didn't, I said "I begin to doubt" and "I see no evidence". But you're going to read that as you will.
And to me, you saying the bolded ^ doesn't sound like determination to me, it sounds like starry eyed optimism. Because you haven't put 10 years into anything before. In fact you only put 2 months into a job you didn't enjoy. If you go down this road, there will be years of doing things that you won't enjoy. How are you going to stick it out then? Because you can't "fire back" at a perceived insult when it's coming from your attending.
I'm sensing where your coming from, and with all due respect, I don't think I would like any more of your advice. Thank you.
No, I don't think you are. I'm coming from the place you hope to be in a few years from now.
I got by BA at 21 with a 2.67 gpa, had no idea what career I wanted and went off to do stuff. A few years into a job I enjoyed, I started thinking about being a doc and asking questions. Then my mom got sick and I left that job to take care of her for almost a year. Made the decision to go for MD, then went and worked a job I hated for 2 years to save the money to do a postbacc. Now I'm broke, but I've got 2 years of all As and a solid MCAT to prop up next to that 1st gpa that show I am capable, as well as clinical, research and volunteering experience, and I'm applying this year. And I'm still in classes, in case I don't get accepted this cycle, so that I'll have a 3rd year of course work and an extra degree to show if I need to reapply.

And yes, it's free internet advice that you requested. You're free to take it or leave it. But here's a life tip- when you ask for advice, it often won't be the thing you want to hear. Doesn't mean it's not valuable.
I won't be one to hold your hand and say all your dreams will come true. I don't have time for that kind of BS. You asked if it's possible. It is, but only with hard work and massive amounts of suckage along the way. So when somebody says something you don't want to hear, the better alternative to saying "nuh-uh!" is to go out and prove them wrong.
 
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