Is medical school the right path for my career goals?

[DualDocDreamer]

Hello SDNers,
For those of you that know me, you know that the decision to pursue medical school has been one of the most difficult decisions I have faced in my life. With the application season rapidly approaching, I am starting to seriously stress out over whether I am going to apply this cycle, or if I should wait to feel more confident with my decision. My issue is that I want to pursue both research and clinical medicine, but at this point my primary interest is research. I am especially interested in stem cell therapy and optogenetic therapy research, particularly for neuro regenerative and functional therapies to treat SCI. However, I think that for much of the research in these fields I would be better served by obtaining a PhD. That being said, I have several reasons for wanting to pursue an MD or DO degree instead. For one, the job market for PhD's is absolutely horrid. I hate to think that I could pursue a rigorous degree for 6-10 years, only to come out of the program and make $9/hr teaching night classes at Bible Belt college in BFE middle America. Or that I won't be able to secure funding for my research interests and have to bounce around the country (or world) every couple years to do an endless string of post doc positions. While money and job security are very big issues to me, the MAJOR reason I want to pursue clinical medicine is the human aspect. I truly feel a strong desire for my work to make a positive difference in the lives of others. While this could be achieved indirectly in research, it would be a guaranteed benefit of practicing medicine. My biggest fear is that I choose the PhD, and spend my life miserable and regretting not becoming a physician. So I guess my question is this: Is it worth the time and financial investment to go through medical training, if I know that I want research to be a major part of my career? Also, is the type of research I described above feasible with an MD or DO degree? I'm sorry for the long post, but I am incredibly lost and any input is GREATLY appreciated!

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[Mt Kilimanjaro]

MD/phD?

 

[Darkbloom]

Sounds like MD/PhD program might suit your needs. You do about 80% research and 20% clinical.

 

[Boolean]

MD/phD?

Sounds like MD/PhD program might suit your needs. You do about 80% research and 20% clinical.

This.

 

[DualDocDreamer]

Hello SDNers,
For those of you that know me, you know that the decision to pursue medical school has been one of the most difficult decisions I have faced in my life. With the application season rapidly approaching, I am starting to seriously stress out over whether I am going to apply this cycle, or if I should wait to feel more confident with my decision. My issue is that I want to pursue both research and clinical medicine, but at this point my primary interest is research. I am especially interested in stem cell therapy and optogenetic therapy research, particularly for neuro regenerative and functional therapies to treat SCI. However, I think that for much of the research in these fields I would be better served by obtaining a PhD. That being said, I have several reasons for wanting to pursue an MD or DO degree instead. For one, the job market for PhD's is absolutely horrid. I hate to think that I could pursue a rigorous degree for 6-10 years, only to come out of the program and make $9/hr teaching night classes at Bible Belt college in BFE middle America. Or that I won't be able to secure funding for my research interests and have to bounce around the country (or world) every couple years to do an endless string of post doc positions. While money and job security are very big issues to me, the MAJOR reason I want to pursue clinical medicine is the human aspect. I truly feel a strong desire for my work to make a positive difference in the lives of others. While this could be achieved indirectly in research, it would be a guaranteed benefit of practicing medicine. My biggest fear is that I choose the PhD, and spend my life miserable and regretting not becoming a physician. So I guess my question is this: Is it worth the time and financial investment to go through medical training, if I know that I want research to be a major part of my career? Also, is the type of research I described above feasible with an MD or DO degree? I'm sorry for the long post, but I am incredibly lost and any input is GREATLY appreciated!

A couple more bits of info...I know that what I described matches Md/PhD programs, but I don't think I am competitive enough for these (32 MCAT, plus a terrible sophomore year that is a black mark on my app-I think I can get past this for a MD or DO programs as I had a 3.98 over 120+ credits following this year, and a 3.98 sGPA). Also, my biggest fear of pursuing medicine is the time commitment, rather than debt. I know I can plug through school and residency training, as long as I can resume a somewhat normal work-life balance upon completion of residency. I really don't have a desire to be uber rich, just enough to get out of debt and live comfortably so I am willing to sacrifice the huge salary for a bit more personal time. Sorry again for all the bouncing around in my thoughts, but this is literally what has been going on in my brain for 3+ years

 

[DualDocDreamer]

This.

MD/phD?

Sounds like MD/PhD program might suit your needs. You do about 80% research and 20% clinical.

This would be ideal (see my name haha), but I only have ~4 months of legit research experience and only got a 32 on my MCAT. I don't think I would be very competitive for those programs, unfortunately.

 

[DualDocDreamer]

I would love to hear from others in the same struggle..any advice from current med students and docs that have chosen to pursue research in addition to their clinical careers would be especially helpful!

 

[Mr Roboto]

I don't think you're required to have a PhD to do research...?

 

[terp720]

This would be ideal (see my name haha), but I only have ~4 months of legit research experience and only got a 32 on my MCAT. I don't think I would be very competitive for those programs, unfortunately.

I don't really know much about applying to PhD programs, but if you don't think you're competitive enough for an MD/PhD, is it realistic to expect that you're going to get into PhD programs? Again, i don't really know the requirements..

But anyway, working in an academic hospital, I work with plenty of physicians on research projects who don't have PhDs, it's possible. But access to research would really depend on where you end up practicing IMO

 

[Laurenxxxx]

You don't need a PhD to do clinical research. I know of some doctors who have done incredible research and only have an MD.

If that isn't convincing, don't apply this year. If you aren't 100% sure what you want to do, you shouldn't apply yet. There is nothing wrong with taking time off. You could work in a research lab for a couple of years then decide. I met an MD/PhD student who took three years off before starting school and she said it was the best decision she could have made. Because, like you, she wasn't sure what she wanted to do.

 

[DualDocDreamer]

I don't think you're required to have a PhD to do research...?

Yeah, I know you can do research with either a PhD or MD, but generally the type of research done is different, with PhDs doing more bench research and MDs doing clinical research. I guess what I want to do would fall more in the translational realm...

You don't need a PhD to do clinical research. I know of some doctors who have done incredible research and only have an MD.

If that isn't convincing, don't apply this year. If you aren't 100% sure what you want to do, you shouldn't apply yet. There is nothing wrong with taking time off. You could work in a research lab for a couple of years then decide. I met an MD/PhD student who took three years off before starting school and she said it was the best decision she could have made. Because, like you, she wasn't sure what she wanted to do.

Working in a research lab and doing more clinical volunteering/shadowing was my goal for my current gap year, but I have to work FT to pay my bills and eat, and so far have been unable to find employment in any labs (which is crazy considering my degree with honors and lab/research experience, but this just speaks to my point about the awful research job market...). Plus, since I am 27 I am really starting to feel the pressure to get the ball rolling on my career, so I'm really not wanting to delay my decision any more than I have to. Thanks for the input though! . It is very comforting to know I'm not the only one who has been in this indecisive rut.

 

[woltej1]

It depends what role you exactly want to play in research. If you want to be a lead researcher or do your own projects, you are literally a sales person and you're selling yourself to get funding. I've talked to a few people in research who opted to be more of a support role in research which a masters would suffice for because it wasn't in their personality to go around trying to sell themselves, they were more interested in the work.

 

[nellbot2000]

Yeah, I know you can do research with either a PhD or MD, but generally the type of research done is different, with PhDs doing more bench research and MDs doing clinical research. I guess what I want to do would fall more in the translational realm...

All of the MDs I work with in my lab only do translational research. Also, if you are interested in MD/PhD but are afraid you won't get in with your stats, many schools allow MSTP applicants to "apply" to the regular MD program if you get turned down for MSTP. The MSTP decisions are made fairly early on in the application season. I know people who originally applied MD/PhD, didn't get in, then interviewed for regular MD, and got in. If you are still hesitant, apply to schools that offer research tracks for the MD students.

 

[DualDocDreamer]

All of the MDs I work with in my lab only do translational research. Also, if you are interested in MD/PhD but are afraid you won't get in with your stats, many schools allow MSTP applicants to "apply" to the regular MD program if you get turned down for MSTP. The MSTP decisions are made fairly early on in the application season. I know people who originally applied MD/PhD, didn't get in, then interviewed for regular MD, and got in. If you are still hesitant, apply to schools that offer research tracks for the MD students.

That is great advice! Thank you!

 

[masaraksh]

This would be ideal (see my name haha), but I only have ~4 months of legit research experience and only got a 32 on my MCAT. I don't think I would be very competitive for those programs, unfortunately.

First - Yes, a 32 MCAT would likely be very much on the low end for those programs. I mean, from what I understand you need to really be ripping through the PS/BS sections completely and doing 10+ in VR.
Second - 4 months of research is very little. Are you really sure you really like research? Did you just have a nice 4mo internship with some fun experiments? Do you know all the other cr*p that goes with research? Like grant writing, administrative things, etc...


Finally, my supervisor (an MD from a top research powerhouse) admitted that if you want to go 'the academic route' or be competitive for 'the competitive specialties' then DO would limit you. She said that MD/PhD would be a SIGNIFICANT advantage however, especially since it will give you much more ability to secure funding and grants.

 

[DualDocDreamer]

First - Yes, a 32 MCAT would likely be very much on the low end for those programs. I mean, from what I understand you need to really be ripping through the PS/BS sections completely and doing 10+ in VR.
Second - 4 months of research is very little. Are you really sure you really like research? Did you just have a nice 4mo internship with some fun experiments? Do you know all the other cr*p that goes with research? Like grant writing, administrative things, etc...


Finally, my supervisor (an MD from a top research powerhouse) admitted that if you want to go 'the academic route' or be competitive for 'the competitive specialties' then DO would limit you. She said that MD/PhD would be a SIGNIFICANT advantage however, especially since it will give you much more ability to secure funding and grants.

Yeah, the MCAT score was a great disappointment for me. I took 6 AAMC practice exams and scored 5 36's and a 37, so you can imagine the shock and disappointment I felt upon seeing my score. I don't know if it was just stress/nerves, or if the test version I got simply happened to touch on my more weak spots, but either way it is what it is. I would consider retaking to apply MD/PhD, but with my age and limited research experience I'm afraid it might be pointless anyway, and could in fact hinder me if for some reason I scored lower. As far as my research experience, my 4 month internship was one of the worst periods of my life haha. I worked under a monster of a Post doc, who liked to tell me how inadequate and ignorant I was anytime I didn't know a concept that was FAR beyond my education level. He also liked to tell me how ridiculous it was that "my" government made him do post doc work when he was such a superior mind compared to all his colleagues...real enjoyable work environment...anyway I began working with a different post doc and things were much better and I enjoyed the experience. The only problem is I wasn't really interested in the lab (I was working in a synthetic chem group at a nano med research institute, but my interests are more geared towards biomed applications. The reason I took the opportunity was that I went to a small lib arts school and research opportunities were few and far between, so when I was finally able to get an internship I jumped at the opportunity. Anyway, it was a very intense position where I was researching primary lit, planning and executing syntheses, purifying compounds and analyzing them as well. Basically, I did most of the bench work and my post doc would test my product with whatever we were exploring at the time. That being said, I did find that I enjoy the process of research. More importantly, I have very specific applications I want to pursue, and they are literally on my mind 24/7. I think they will likely be clinically feasible, and I can't stand the thought of just letting what could be a major therapy just drift away without knowing...that is why I feel the need to incorporate research into my career. Are there aspects I won't like such as grant writing and administrative duties? Of course! I'm sure I won't enjoy many of the gross things I'll see as a physician, or the admin work I'll do as one, but I wouldn't let that keep me from pursuing medicine. All jobs come with things you don't like to do...

 

[DualDocDreamer]

Bump

 

[gumdrops]

Hello SDNers,
For those of you that know me, you know that the decision to pursue medical school has been one of the most difficult decisions I have faced in my life. With the application season rapidly approaching, I am starting to seriously stress out over whether I am going to apply this cycle, or if I should wait to feel more confident with my decision. My issue is that I want to pursue both research and clinical medicine, but at this point my primary interest is research. I am especially interested in stem cell therapy and optogenetic therapy research, particularly for neuro regenerative and functional therapies to treat SCI. However, I think that for much of the research in these fields I would be better served by obtaining a PhD. That being said, I have several reasons for wanting to pursue an MD or DO degree instead. For one, the job market for PhD's is absolutely horrid. I hate to think that I could pursue a rigorous degree for 6-10 years, only to come out of the program and make $9/hr teaching night classes at Bible Belt college in BFE middle America. Or that I won't be able to secure funding for my research interests and have to bounce around the country (or world) every couple years to do an endless string of post doc positions. While money and job security are very big issues to me, the MAJOR reason I want to pursue clinical medicine is the human aspect. I truly feel a strong desire for my work to make a positive difference in the lives of others. While this could be achieved indirectly in research, it would be a guaranteed benefit of practicing medicine. My biggest fear is that I choose the PhD, and spend my life miserable and regretting not becoming a physician. So I guess my question is this: Is it worth the time and financial investment to go through medical training, if I know that I want research to be a major part of my career? Also, is the type of research I described above feasible with an MD or DO degree? I'm sorry for the long post, but I am incredibly lost and any input is GREATLY appreciated!

Hey, your stats are amazing for MD programs and I'm sure you'd get in. Surprised that nobody on this thread has brought this up before but several medical schools welcome medical students with open arms into their Ph.D programs. In fact, almost every MD I've spoken to has mentioned that acceptance rates for MD's into Ph.D programs between their second and third years of medical school are pretty close to 100%. The only caveat is that you don't get your MD tuition paid for like you would in an MSTP program. Just a thought if research and clinic are your goals!

 

[snowflakes]

Also there are some MD programs (T20s, especially Pitt's PSTP or Cleveland Clinic's CCLCM) that are more research focused, which are admittedly more competitive, but probably less competitive than MD-PhD. You can also look into less competitive med schools in cities with strong research programs in the same city. For example--SLU and WashU, or UChicago and all the other med schools there, or Columbia/Cornell and all the NYC schools, or Case Western and Cleveland Clinic, or UT-Houston and Baylor, etc. Lots of schools will also let you do a 5th research year, where you take a year off and can go pretty much anywhere, including NIH to do research. This might be a good middle-path for you--not as intense as an MD-PhD, but will also give you more research experience and qualifications down the road. Also, later down the road, there are research intensive residencies and fellowships where you can do 1-2 years of protected research if it's something you're interested in. So, you definitely will have lots of opportunities to incorporate research into your career as an MD. However, you said you only have 4 months research work. That's not really that much time to know if research is really something you want to as a significant part of your career, or just something you have a passing interest in--just my opinion, though.

 

[Phillyborn]

There is also the option to do a research fellowship after residency. As others have pointed out, you can still do a significant amount of research as an MD alone. My research is also in SCI (my lab does optogenetics with stem cells among other things), and I am doing a my residency is PM&R right now with plans to do a post graduate research fellowship (http://www.physiatry.org/?page=programs_RMSTP). Most people that go this route eventually do 20-40% clinical time seeing patient and the rest of their time is devoted to research. These sorts of career development programs are beneficial because with your clinical background, you get the chance to work on your hard science/lab knowledge while also developing your grant writing skills. PM me if you want more information.

 

[DualDocDreamer]

Wow! Thank you all for the helpful insights and information. I really appreciate everyone taking the time to offer different options for me to consider!

There is also the option to do a research fellowship after residency. As others have pointed out, you can still do a significant amount of research as an MD alone. My research is also in SCI (my lab does optogenetics with stem cells among other things), and I am doing a my residency is PM&R right now with plans to do a post graduate research fellowship (http://www.physiatry.org/?page=programs_RMSTP). Most people that go this route eventually do 20-40% clinical time seeing patient and the rest of their time is devoted to research. These sorts of career development programs are beneficial because with your clinical background, you get the chance to work on your hard science/lab knowledge while also developing your grant writing skills. PM me if you want more information.

This may be the single most important info I have ever received on this forum. Sometime the internet can be a truly vital tool.