Menu Icon Search
Close Search

About the ads

Is Medical School "Worth It" for Nontrads?

Discussion in 'Nontraditional Students' started by 8744, 06.07.08.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. 8744

    8744 Guest

    Joined:
    12.07.01
    Messages:
    9,324
    Status:
    Non-Student

    SDN Members don't see this ad. (About Ads)
    In all seriousness, you should give it up. I know you think you want to be a doctor but I assure you that this mother****er is not worth the time and emotional capital you are investing in it. I know this now and I would never, ever, do it again if I had known nine years ago what I know now. Sure, it can be a good job and it has it's rewarding moments but the frustrations, overwork, and annoyances of residency are, I repeat, not worth the effort.

    Oh man. Just my personal opinion but if I wasn't a physician, this mother****er would so not be worth it and if I hadn't been accepted to medical school, in no way would I have considered any other medical career. When I hear phrases like "fulfill your dream of patient care" I cringe, although I know what you mean.

    As far as medicine goes, if you're not a physician, it's just a job. Hell, being a physician is mostly just a job and, as I have said, not really worth all of the emotional capital people invest in it. Is this clear? What I mean is that people go through seven to ten years of training in this mother****er for two reasons, one being the pay and the other being the "intangibles." No intangibles and I'd rather be an engineer, a priest, a lawyer, a plumber, an electrician, a college professor, a Naval Officer, or any one of many other respectable career, especially if the pay is going to blow.

    I used to think that but, vis-a-vis medicine anyway, looking back if I had been rejected or thrown my application in the trash like I should have done I would have gotten over it. Medicine is a great job and I generally like it well enough but, and I will say this one last time as a caution to all of you older non-traditional applicants, it is not worth the emotional capital.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 04.26.09
  2. Orthodoc40

    Orthodoc40

    Joined:
    10.21.05
    Messages:
    3,045
    Location:
    Between Michigan & Massachusetts
    Status:
    Medical Student
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    When (how far along in training) did you decide this? Was there something specific or was it cumulative? These thoughts come up and a lot of people push them aside thinking "it will (has to!) get better!" and for some it just doesn't really...
     
  3. 8744

    8744 Guest

    Joined:
    12.07.01
    Messages:
    9,324
    Status:
    Non-Student
    The first week of third year.
     
  4. Shinken

    Shinken Family Medicine

    Joined:
    07.01.03
    Messages:
    1,338
    Location:
    Cleveland, OH
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    SDN 10+ Year Member
    For every opinion, there's an opposite opinion just as valid.

    For the record, I'm a nontraditional student, former engineer (with a BS and MS) who left the career and a six-figure income (counting my wife's salary in addition to my own) after almost 10 years of engineering to become a physician. It was well worth it and I would do it again in a sinus heart beat, and even in an ectopic heart beat!

    I'm having an absolute blast, and I'm so glad I went to medical school it's almost bordering on the ridiculous.
     
  5. futureboy

    futureboy

    Joined:
    01.28.07
    Messages:
    761
    Location:
    Ohio
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    I see your point. However, as an attorney who has practiced 15 years in litigation, I can tell you law is no walk in the park (not that you suggested it was). Yes, some attorneys make mad money, but most of us do 60-70 hour weeks with high stress dealing with obnoxious opposing counsel, multiple and conflicting court hearings/deadlines, unreasonable clients, and arbitrary judges. All of this for pay in the mid/upper 5 figures to low $100s. Not bad, but not great either.

    Every career has its good and bad points, and we all need to decide whether the positives outweigh the negatives enough to go down a particular career path. I'm in the process of deciding whether to pursue medicine, something I started 12 years ago but abandoned after being offered a law job. Panda Bear might say "no way" and Shinken might say "go for it," but in the end, it's a decision we need to make for ourselves.
     
  6. Sainttpk

    Sainttpk Senior Member

    Joined:
    05.10.04
    Messages:
    164
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    Hehe its been awhile since I been here, but why has Panda changed his name?

    By the way this is good advice from Panda. I know alot of the tunnel vision pre meds here think medicine is like "house", or "scrubs" but the reality is that its just a job like anything else! After awhile the nostaliga and presitge wear off.

    I enjoy reading Panda's post because he does not drink the kool-aid!
     
  7. Newmanium

    Newmanium

    Joined:
    04.02.07
    Messages:
    61
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    His new after-tax, biweekly pay? I don't know, maybe it's the number of souls he hopes to crush, or the days left till he can retire. Or the number of children he hopes to father.

    I'm kind of curious too.
     
  8. Trismegistus4

    Trismegistus4 Survivor

    Joined:
    07.22.03
    Messages:
    1,279
    Location:
    Location: Location
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Physician SDN 10+ Year Member
    I'd go much further than that. I can't speak for The Poster Formerly Known as Panda Bear, MD, and I don't know exactly what he meant by "emotional capital," but for me that phrase triggers much more than the idea of the nostalgia and prestige wearing off. I'm 32 years old, a mere 2nd year medical student, and I would echo the sentiment that for an older nontraditional applicant it's not worth it. As a result of not studying enough for a variety of personal reasons, I'm on the verge of possibly finding out I'm going to have to repeat 2nd year if I want to continue with this. And despite $100k in debt and the humiliation of having failed at becoming a doctor, not continuing with this is very tempting.

    When you're a pre-med, everyone tells you, "make sure you know what you're really getting into," meaning you should find out what it's like to actually be a doctor. No one tells you to make sure you know what it's like to be a medical student. What no amount of shadowing, volunteering, or Atul-Gawande-book-reading will convey to you is just how it feels to be TOTALLY immersed in the world of medicine, with more obligations than you have time in the day for and no time for any of your other interests. You can't appreciate until you get there just how much work this is.

    What are some interests you've been wanting to pursue lately? Learning to play the guitar? Growing a vegetable garden? Skiing? Reading all of Charles Dickens' novels? You're going to have to put all of that on hold for the next 10 years, while you study biomedical science all day. And if biomedical science is not what is truly interesting to you, no matter your aptitude for learning it, that is not going to feel like a worthwhile tradeoff. It doesn't matter that you could make $300k a year someday. It's not worth the 10 years of your life.

    When I was a premed and people told me this, I smiled and nodded, thinking inwardly, "I don't care; none of that matters to me. All I really want to do is get married and have a family, so I'm willing to give up all that other stuff so long as I can meet a nice girl, get married, and hole up with my wife until I come out the other end of the tunnel as a doctor." I thought being able to say I was going to be a doctor would make women like me. It hasn't. So here I am in medical school, required to spend all day every day studying topics that don't really interest me, with no time for pursuing my real passions (which would actually make me attractive to women), with dozens of classmates to make me feel inferior since they really DO like this stuff and ENJOY spending all day every day studying it and showing off their knowledge of it.

    A truism that gets tossed around a lot on SDN, and which someone also told me in person when I was a premed, is "if there's anything else you can see yourself doing, do that instead. Only do medicine if it's your true passion." I shrugged off that advice at the time, knowing that medicine wasn't my real passion, but figuring I didn't have any other passions, so since I had to do SOMETHING, it might as well be medicine. I can't tell you how wrong that was.

    So, although I posted in this thread last year, my advice to mommy2three is even more negative than it was then. You clearly do have other interests, and you have a pretty good life. In a way it's a blessing that you've found it so hard to get into medical school, because it's dissuading you from making what is probably a huge mistake. Seriously, do not under any circumstances go to medical school.
     
  9. miranda23

    miranda23

    Joined:
    10.31.06
    Messages:
    6
    Trismegistus4, Shinken

    I'm fascinated by both of your posts. Shinken, why is it an absolute blast? What year and kind of residency are you in and how old were you when you started? What is it about medicine that you couldn't find in your previous career.

    Trismegistus4, how are your expectations different from what the reality of medicals school and a career in medicine is? Would you be happy if you were a doctor and do you just hate the process of getting to the MD and then residency?

    Finally, for both of you, why do you think such a disparity exists among opinions--i.e., some people absolutely love it, even later in life, while others find it to be a mistake?

    Finally, Panda Bear, if youre still out there or 8744, now that you are near the end of your residency and have a contract have your feelings changed at all? Do you think it was the stress of 3rd/4th year and residency that turned you off to medicine?

    Thanks for your thoughts,
    miranda
     
    Last edited: 03.17.09
  10. Sainttpk

    Sainttpk Senior Member

    Joined:
    05.10.04
    Messages:
    164
    SDN 7+ Year Member

    I think alot of non trads will be suprised, not just non trads, but trads as well how brutual medicine is. :laugh:

    I wish Panda was here today to read this thread.
     
  11. Trismegistus4

    Trismegistus4 Survivor

    Joined:
    07.22.03
    Messages:
    1,279
    Location:
    Location: Location
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Physician SDN 10+ Year Member
    miranda, you might not get a response out of Shinken since he last posted to this thread 9 months ago, but I'll do my best.

    These are good questions. They're hard to answer because being in the thick of medical school is so different from being a pre-med, and it's hard to make yourself think like your self of 4 years ago.

    I think medical school has actually matched my expectations pretty well. I had read SDN a lot, and had heard the most commonly cited high and low points about medical school. By and large, medical school has matched the impression I had. There haven't really been any big surprises. (Except, perhaps, the degree to which they push liberalism on us, but whether that will bother you depends on your philosphical views.) What hasn't matched my expectations is how I would feel about all of it, how much I would feel like buckling down and working really hard. Why that is is hard to explain.

    I had kind of thought I'd enjoy it in a masochistic sort of way. I prepared for the MCAT entirely by independent study, and did well. So I thought I'd do OK in my school's curriculum, which relies heavily on independent study, is strictly pass/fail, and has infrequent exams. The problem is that, at the beginning of a block, with the exam 12 weeks away, it was just just too tempting to spend my afternoon playing video games or surfing the internet. Getting to the point where the exam was just around the corner would put the fear of God in me, and I'd spend the last couple of weeks of the block trying to catch up, which usually proved unsatisfactory as you may predict.

    If I was sufficiently motivated to study and get A's in my post-bacc program, and study independently to do well on the MCAT, why did I revert to being such a procrastinator in medical school? Well, I could cite several reasons. One could point out that when I was a pre-med, everything I was doing was geared toward the concrete, relatively short-term goal of getting into medical school, and once I did that, my subconscious mind said "mission accomplished!" I felt like I had hit the World Series-winning grand-slam home run and could sit on the bench for the rest of the game basking in my heroism, when in reality all I'd done is make the team as a rookie at the beginning of the season. I just wasn't mentally prepared to keep working hard.

    Also, something I've just recently learned about myself and begun to correct is that I've tended to place way too much emphasis on seeking validation from women. This might seem off-topic, but it's been a very significant factor in my life. As I mentioned, I thought being able to truthfully state that I was going to be a doctor would make women like me. When it didn't, that only made me frustrated and resentful, thus making me even less attractive to women, resulting in even more despair over being a failure with women, resulting in even more frustration and resentment... It might sound ridiculous, but I can't tell you how many times during the past 2 years I sat down to crack open a textbook, found myself unable to concentrate after about 30 seconds of reading, and muttered to myself "if only girls' eyes would light up every time I entered a room like I thought they would, I'd be able to blaze through this stuff and learn it like the back of my hand in no time."

    I think it's sloppy thinking when people give lists of reasons without being able to unify them, though, so whenever I'm analyzing something I like to give one definitive reason. And in this case, while the above two factors are relevant, I'd have to say the biggest reason is just that I was unprepared for how it would feel to have more work than one can possibly do. Everyone says medical school is like trying to drink from a fire hose, and it's easy to think "oh, I know it will be hard, but I'll just do the best I can and not worry about it," but you don't have a feel for how hard it really is until you get there. When I did my post-bacc, I took bio, physics, and organic chemistry all at the same time, and while that's considered a hard workload, I had time to to EVERYTHING I thought I was supposed to. I could read every assigned chapter in the biology textbook, make flashcards and go over them enough to remember every bolded term, type up my lecture notes, read every assigned chapter in the organic chemistry textbook, do all the assigned exercises, make flashcards and go over them enough to remember every reaction, do all the assigned physics problems and learn how to use every formula. I felt I was fully prepared for the tests and had learned everything I was supposed to.

    In medical school, however, it's literally impossible to do that. Our first day of year 1, the first lecturer of the day said, "right now is the last moment of your life when you'll be caught up." That has been proven true in more ways than I could appreciate at the time. Imagine it's your first day of class. At my school we only have class in the mornings, so we get out at noon and theoretically have the entire afternoon and evening to study. So you have some lunch and sit down with your books. You start the first assigned reading for that day--20 pages of, say, a genetics textbook. The material is dense and dry and unfamiliar to you, and you soon realize that if you want to understand it it takes several minutes to read one page. You also realize that even if you understand it now, you're never going to retain it for the test that's 12 weeks away unless you reinforce it by some other means, say, making flashcards. But if you made a flashcard for every bolded term in the reading, it would probably take you an hour or two, and that's just for one of several assigned readings for one day! Meanwhile, you've got 2 or 3 other, similarly dense assigned readings for that day, plus you're scheduled to start gross anatomy tomorrow and are supposed to read a lab guide and/or a few dozen pages of your anatomy text. Also, your physical diagnosis course starts this week, so you're supposed to read a chapter of your physical diagnosis textbook and memorize all the little steps of taking the HPI because you'll be expected to do it on a standardize patient. That session, by the way, will take up one of your evenings later that week, which then won't be available for study time. So you've got that hanging over your head--and tomorrow, you're going to get a handful of new assigned readings, which, similarly, there is no way to realistically complete.

    You've heard that medical school is like drinking from a fire hose, so you figure you'll just sort out the important points from the unimportant details. But how are you supposed to do that? Maybe at some schools, where they give you prepared lecture notes and a syllabus, those can provide some clue, but we don't get them at my school. Just reading the text, you have no idea what's important and what can be disregarded. Yet you know that to learn everything would be impossible. Furthermore, when you have your PBL sessions, or they send you into the hospital for some early clinical experience, many of your classmates talk and answer questions as though they really know their stuff, as though they somehow were able to distill the important points from the readings and ignore the irrelevant details. (I've never really sought advice on this from my classmates, which was probably a huge mistake, but to this day I have no idea how they did it.) And you know that every day is going to be like this, 5 days a week for the next 12 weeks, at the end of which you'll have to take a test on everything you're supposed to learn.

    I hope you can see that for me, anyway, it was easy to quickly fall into despair and think "what's the point in trying? I can't do all this, I don't even know where to start" and just start surfing the internet or playing a computer game.

    That's my best explanation of why I've been so unhappy and haven't learned as much as I should have. I think I wouldn't have been so miserable if I had done this straight out of college; I've often thought of the fact that right now I could be 2 years into private practice as an anesthesiologist making $300k a year, either married with a family or with spare time to pursue my other interests. From where I am now, knowing that I won't be there until I'm 40, I think I would have been happier financing the pursuit of my other interests by some other means, one that didn't require such a colossal committment.

    I think the reason for the disparity of opinions is just that some people are truly interested in it and some aren't. Everyone's interests are different. Some people are math and science geeks, some people are creative arts geeks. The people who are truly happy in medicine are those who are just innately, really interested in biomedical science, for whom that's their true passion. My true passion is writing, and anything that detracts from my ability to spend time writing I tend to view as a chore. When I think about practicing medicine full-time for the rest of my life I recall the apocryphal Thoreau quotation, "Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still in them." I imagine myself in the midst of a busy day, trying to explain some patient's diagnosis to him, with this nagging thought in the back of my mind about having a novel at the top of the New York Times bestseller list, and living a life filled with regret.
     
  12. Sainttpk

    Sainttpk Senior Member

    Joined:
    05.10.04
    Messages:
    164
    SDN 7+ Year Member

    This is an excellent post thanks for sharing that. I think alot of people end up in medical school somehow thinking this will validate themselves to others. To their suprise it does not. I think it is no suprise alot of people who become doctors end up depressed. I know this is a huge generalization. But I think its good for people on SDN to see posts like this.

    Primairly because I find that a lot of non trads and trads somehow think that becoming a doctor is going to validate their lives. Maybe its respect, maybe its money, maybe its getting a spouse. The lesson is that you have to be happy with who you are. Don't give up your family and the things you love just because you think medicine is your cure.

    So many senior posters on here have said it once, and it will be said again. The nostalgia of being a physician or any other kind of professional wears off after awhile. Sure it sounds cool, but in reality it is just another job. Don't be so fooled to think your life is going to become magically better. In fact it may become worse!
     
  13. miranda23

    miranda23

    Joined:
    10.31.06
    Messages:
    6
    Trismegistus4,
    Thanks for the reply; it is really helpful in that it makes me question why I exactly I want medicine at this age. I see interesting work, job security,money, but I wonder if there aren't other ways to get that. I've seen other friends of mine go through similar phases in med. school. They just pushed through somehow. While they were ambivalent, they later came back to loving medicine. You'll probably be the same (hopefully). Hope you feel better.
     
  14. unsung

    unsung

    Joined:
    03.12.07
    Messages:
    1,356
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    SDN 7+ Year Member

    Med school is a means to an end. Altho' I may not care about the details of the Krebs cycle or truly enjoy molecular bio, I DO know I will care about my patients and I will enjoy using science to figure out the etiology of various pathologies. In short, I can see myself being good at and enjoying work as a doctor. (Not insignificantly, it will also finance my artistic endeavors. Like you, I have a penchant for writing, amongst other things. They'd be a lot harder to finance if I were flipping burgers or even working some mid-tier desk job, for instance) Getting there is all about jumping through hoops. I know we all know this, having done the work necessary to even apply to medical school. Anyway, what motivates me to jump through those hoops is not my love for biochemistry... it's the vision at the end of a life I want to lead.

    So since we're all accustomed to the interminable hoop-jumping, what's up with the jaded accounts of med school that come up now & then? I tend to think the trouble comes when some people cruise through their undergrad or their pre-reqs getting very high marks with a decent amount of work. The problem with much of the "typical" pre-med experience is, I think, many shelter themselves from failure (taking only the required courses or not taking anything harder than they have to) and in so doing become inured to a certain improbably low rate of failure. People get used to acing everything in sight with a minimum of exertion. (Of course, there's that small percentage of geniuses who DO take hardest tracks and most difficult courses and STILL manage to reach that high level of performance... but whatever :rolleyes:) It helped that I wasn't yet pre-med during undergrad, I think. I wouldn't have taken half the courses I took "for fun" or as a challenge had I been neurotically worried about my grades.. my GPA probably would've been higher without those courses sure, but I think I'd have an entirely different attitude right now.

    Anyway, the relevant part of what I'm trying to say is, from your account, it seems like you tend to attribute failures you encounter to certain IMMUTABLE qualities within yourself; including something quite positive within yourself- your interest in the arts. Rather than say, "I'm not doing well because I haven't figured out new study strategies which will work for med school" (something external that can be readily remedied), it seems like you're saying "I'm just not cut out for med school because my personality and interests aren't right for it." (something innate and unchangeable). The latter understandably generates anxiety and fear. What's the use in studying if you're inherently not cut out for med school? And panic generates more failure, which feeds into the panic. This quickly degenerates into "learned helplessness"-- where you COULD ask your classmates how they knew the salient points to study, but for whatever reason, refrain from even asking, from even trying. "What's the use of asking?"

    Anyway, I'm sure I'm just pointing out the obvious... guess it's the counselor in me :laugh: But if you haven't already, I'd definitely recommend seeking out a counselor. There's plenty of free counseling around, if you look for it. Try one of those anonymous crisis phone lines if you don't want to speak to a person face to face. The bit about wanting external affirmation from women, etc., really sounds like it's a significant personal problem for you that is now spilling over into your professional/academic life. A counselor could definitely help you work through some of that. And like another poster said, learning how to be happy with who you are is something separate from being or becoming a doctor. If you're depressed, definitely there's resources out there for you. It's always dangerous when you get to the point where you see things you could do to TRY to improve your lot (like asking your classmates for insight), but you don't do it and don't even want to try. I can't imagine how disheartening it must be to reach that point.
     
  15. dragonfly99

    dragonfly99

    Joined:
    05.15.08
    Messages:
    5,083
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    SDN 5+ Year Member
    trismegistus
    that was an important post.
    You are obviously articulate and I'm sorry you hate med school. For what it's worth, there are quite a few people who don't like med school, or at least don't like the preclinical years. I think you might find if you talked to some classmates that they at times have felt dumb on rounds (like you mentioned) and like everyone else knows all the answers, etc. Also, everyone has felt like they, "can't study any more" and gets frustrated with that. You are right, it can be very hard to figure out the critical/important stuff among the endless reams of stuff to read. I didn't enjoy 1st/2nd years of med school very much either...but I did like learning about biomedical topics, and I knew I'd like taking care of patients, so that made it bearable.

    I do think you should talk to a professional about this...if too worried about going to someone at your school, could get an outside counselor or something. Nobody can tell you to continue with med school vs. not, but objective advice can be helpful. You also might need evaluation for depression...guys express depression in different ways than women and it can be hard to recognize.

    Even if you decide not to pursue clinical medicine, there are things like consulting that you could do. I just saw an ad this week recruting PhD or MD's for consideration for consulting jobs. Also, some folks who are not as science/math oriented like fields like psychiatry, which gives you more free time and relies more on your verbal skills, etc. vs. straight science. There are also other fields like pathology and physical med/rehab or preventive medicine that really have a lot better hours than some other specialties, and will leave you time to devote to things other than medicine.
     
  16. QofQuimica

    QofQuimica Seriously, dude, I think you're overreacting.... Administrator SDN Senior Moderator Lifetime Donor

    Joined:
    10.12.04
    Messages:
    17,709
    Location:
    Florida
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Physician PhD Faculty SDN 10+ Year Member
    Your hypothesis, while interesting and possibly even true in part, is based on a faulty assumption, namely that what makes medical school difficult is merely that the classes are harder compared to college classes. The courseload, while heavy, is *not* the hardest thing about medical school. Nearly every med student manages to pass their preclinical courses; they wouldn't be in med school if the adcom didn't think they could get through the program.

    Medical school is harder than college in every single dimension that comprises human existence: academically yes, but also fiscally, physically, emotionally, spiritually, psychologically, and socially. I think that many people simply don't comprehend as premeds the extent to which medical training will take over your life, and it takes your life over for a long, long time. Tri is feeling the pain as a second year, which is a very stressful time for many people, especially as boards are coming up. Third year is even worse in terms of losing nearly all control over your time, along with being forced to navigate a constantly shifting environment. There is simply no college course that can prepare you for most of what you will experience in medical school. Even if there were, no one will die or get hurt if you fail a college class, whereas failing to do the right thing on the wards could lead to someone getting hurt or dying. (I'm mainly talking about residents here, but even med students run risks such as sticking themselves with contaminated needles or botching a procedure being performed under supervision.)
     
  17. NTF

    NTF PGY-2 Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    07.01.08
    Messages:
    1,822
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Physician SDN 5+ Year Member
    Alot of sobering (but much appreciated) posts on this thread. Given that my brain has slowly been atrophying since I took the MCAT a year ago, I hope I'll be able to hack it. But it's good to get a dose of reality so I won't be blind-sided (or as blind-sided anyway).

    Thanks for all the great posts, folks.
     
  18. later2pharm

    later2pharm

    Joined:
    04.01.09
    Messages:
    60
    Status:
    Pre-Pharmacy
    yes. ty for passing the wisdom around and reinforcing some of my own reflections.
     
  19. flip26

    flip26

    Joined:
    12.20.07
    Messages:
    4,796
    Status:
    Medical Student
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    Bingo!

    When he describes sitting down with a book and 30 seconds later his mind wanders, I immediately thought of depression.
     
  20. drizzt3117

    drizzt3117 chick magnet

    Joined:
    10.29.06
    Messages:
    14,696
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    or add
     
  21. Pembleton

    Pembleton Senior Member

    Joined:
    06.30.02
    Messages:
    722
    SDN 10+ Year Member
    Or boredom.
     
  22. Trismegistus4

    Trismegistus4 Survivor

    Joined:
    07.22.03
    Messages:
    1,279
    Location:
    Location: Location
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Physician SDN 10+ Year Member
    I don't visit this forum much and didn't know my post had generated more discussion in this thread. I never meant to make the thread about me! :)

    I'm doing much better since successfully making it through the end of second year. Of course, I'm still dreading my surgery and OB/Gyn rotations, but the fastest way out from this point on is through the other end. Whether it's a "chill" specialty like psych or PM&R, or a job in industry as someone mentioned, there is a sane life awaiting me somewhere down the road.

    I didn't post to gain sympathy, but to warn people. I post things like my previous post upthread in the hopes of reaching people who are in the shoes I was in a few years ago, embarking on the pre-med path thinking that going to medical school would make everything in life peachy. LOTS of people will tell you that medicine can be great if you enjoy it, but it's simply too long and hard a road if you're in it for the peripheral benefits (whether those be, in the words of the Dr. Cox from Scrubs quote that some people have in their sigs, money, power, or chicks. ;)) When I was starting out on this road, I saw that statement made on SDN many, many times, but I shrugged it off. Things will be different in my case, I told myself. I came up with all kinds of excuses as to why such advice didn't apply to me, why my situation was different. But I'm here to tell you those excuses were wrong.

    This paragraph from QofQuimica is very important:

    That's the #1 thing I'd encourage anyone thinking of going to medical school to think about. Are you OK with giving up control of your life for all those years, especially keeping in mind that you don't know what it feels like because you're not there yet? Are you OK with the rewards (money, power, chicks) not coming until you've spent 7-10 years (med school + residency) perpetually under the gun? Especially if you're a nontrad and those years won't be over until you're 40? If the answer is yes, then fine, go into medicine and you will be content. If not, you'll eventually make it through, but it will be really rough and you'll probably feel like it wasn't worth it.
     
  23. dragonfly99

    dragonfly99

    Joined:
    05.15.08
    Messages:
    5,083
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    SDN 5+ Year Member
    good posts by tri and Q.
    I agree 100%.
    The loss of control over basic aspects of your life (like when you get to eat, sleep, urinate) is major and there will be long blocks of time where you'll have no control over when you come and go at work, who you work with, or what you do all day.
     
  24. QofQuimica

    QofQuimica Seriously, dude, I think you're overreacting.... Administrator SDN Senior Moderator Lifetime Donor

    Joined:
    10.12.04
    Messages:
    17,709
    Location:
    Florida
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Physician PhD Faculty SDN 10+ Year Member
    I think the secret here is to ask for forgiveness and not permission. My advisor is kind of touchy-feely at times, but she is rather astute. Earlier this year, she pointed out to me that medicine is not a profession that promotes what she calls self-care, and that it's up to me to care for myself. I thought that over for a while and decided she's right. So I started taking off for a few minutes during rounds to use the bathroom when I needed to, and I've shown up a little late for call a few times because I wanted to grab some dinner first. Amazingly, the workings of the hospital did not grind to a halt. In fact, no one has ever called me out on it, at least so far. Sleep deprivation is not something I've figured out a workaround for, unfortunately. :hungover:

    tri, I know this thread has taken a totally different turn, but I think the forum users are finding your comments to be very helpful. What do you think about me splitting your posts and the others on the same topic into their own thread about whether med school is "worth it" for nontrads? Then we can add it to the sticky as a reference, and it won't hijack the OP's thread. If other people have thoughts about this idea, feel free to comment also.
     
  25. Trismegistus4

    Trismegistus4 Survivor

    Joined:
    07.22.03
    Messages:
    1,279
    Location:
    Location: Location
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Physician SDN 10+ Year Member
    Sounds like a plan. I've thought before that there should be such a thread, and I'd be happy to contribute to it further.
     
  26. DrMidlife

    DrMidlife has an opinion Gold Donor

    Joined:
    10.30.06
    Messages:
    6,351
    Status:
    Medical Student
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: :) :) :) :)
     
  27. Pemberley

    Pemberley Senior Member

    Joined:
    07.30.05
    Messages:
    1,079
    Location:
    Texas
    Status:
    Medical Student
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    Trismegistus -- I'm sorry you're stuck in this spot -- but the selfish part of me is reassured to know that somebody else is in my spot. I am 31 and (once again, due to personal complications) will be repeating part of 2nd year.

    Like Trismegistus, I expected coming in exactly the workload I found. Maybe I underestimated the degree to which it's demoralizing. If I'm studying, I should be mowing the lawn. If I'm mowing the lawn, I should be studying. If I'm doing my reserve duty, I should be housecleaning or studying. I must pay attention to my husband (our marriage is more important than any career) but feel guilty when I do. And even guiltier when I don't!! The time that I have to spend studying to be a good doctor is bad enough, but the time that I spend jumping through pre-clinical hoops that are NOT necessary or important in the long term is infuriating. That feeling of accomplishment is going to be a very, very, very long time coming.

    ***

    In the end, I'm still looking forward to a clinical career and will stay in medical school (although I have very seriously considered other options).

    HOWEVER (and here's where I get back to the original poster), if I had children already, I would not be considering even for a single moment staying where I am. Whoever brought up "emotional capital" ought to be commended. One doesn't have to be a devotee of stay-at-home-parenthood to think that parents (of either gender) pay a horrible price to stay on this merry-go-round.

    Occasionally I have to make a conscious decision to remember that, with the best husband on the planet, I would indeed still be luckier than the rest of my classmates even if I failed out tomorrow. That I could ever lose sight of that fact even for a second says something about medical school (and, yes, about me... I'm working on it :oops: ). To the mom who started this thread: not getting admitted to medical school may have just saved you and your family a lot of heartache, debt, anxiety, and self-doubt.
     
  28. QofQuimica

    QofQuimica Seriously, dude, I think you're overreacting.... Administrator SDN Senior Moderator Lifetime Donor

    Joined:
    10.12.04
    Messages:
    17,709
    Location:
    Florida
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Physician PhD Faculty SDN 10+ Year Member
    Done.

    For those who want to contribute to the original thread, which was posted by mommy2three to ask if she should give up trying to get into medical school after several unsuccessful attempts to raise her grades, you can find her thread here. Please reserve that thread for giving advice specifically to the OP, and post comments on the general topic of whether nontrads should go to med school here in this thread.

    Also, if you're finding this thread useful, here is another one on a similar topic. I'm going to leave them separate so they don't don't get too long and unwieldy. Plus, it gets confusing when too many posts from different threads are merged. :p

    And now back to our previous programming....
     
  29. NonTradMed

    NonTradMed Perpetual Student

    Joined:
    01.06.04
    Messages:
    2,308
    Location:
    Somewhere in the middle of nowhere.
    Status:
    Medical Student
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    I knew when I decided to enter medical school that it wasn't an "old person's" game. My parents always taught me that school was ideally done before spouse, kids and mortgage. That's why I could understand some nontrad's caution about med school. For people like Panda Bear who already have a family and successful career, the price of midcareer change may be very, very high. But for some of us who have no families, and have only begun our journey into a career that we did not enjoy anyways, I think med school was a wonderful decision. I'm not saying I enjoy med school, but I hated my old job and kept on regretting that I didn't apply to med school. This wasn't regret that came and went. I think it kind of gnawed at me, and I had no good reason to tell myself that I would be better off not doing med school.

    It was also not a huge economic cost for me to do med school. I had a well paying job but there was guarantee that I would climb up to management and get my own IT group. I had no mortgage or no dependents. And there was no personal loss when I moved back home to do so. I left good friends at my old work place, but made new ones in school. And there was no spouse who had to relocate with me. I simply moved back home and lived with my parents.

    In the end, if one has to tell nontrads whether to go for it or not, I can't say there's a good answer. From an economic standpoint, I would say don't do it if you have an established career and family to care. From an career standpoint, I'd say don't do it if you have started late in the game (35+yo). But from an emotional standpoint, I can't offer any advice. I've seen some people who truly love what they do so for them, it really is better that they ended up doing medicine despite whatever cost they had to endure. But then there are people who treat it as a job, and would be just as happy playing in the mud (met a gasdoc who wished he was a construction worker!).

    I guess the only advice I can really offer is, for nontrads, doing medicine has a higher price (generally) than for the 22yo college graduate. So seriously think about it ask questions until you are certain this is what you want to do. There's no guarantee of happiness no matter what you do.
     
    Last edited: 04.26.09
  30. pianola

    pianola MS2

    Joined:
    05.23.08
    Messages:
    6,086
    Location:
    Florida
    Status:
    Medical Student
    SDN 5+ Year Member
    Thanks for sharing your experience, Tris and others. Keep us updated if you can.

    I'm pulling for you cause I see a bit of myself in your description.
     
  31. Anthony Hartsoc

    Anthony Hartsoc Gelecular Molometry

    Joined:
    10.04.07
    Messages:
    97
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    there have been alot of great posts here...maybe even cathartic in some cases...interesting read...i look forward to more...good luck to those hating life right now...
     
  32. nontrdgsbuiucmd

    nontrdgsbuiucmd

    Joined:
    03.28.08
    Messages:
    1,006
    Location:
    my own little world
    Status:
    Medical Student
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    thx for thoughts.. as a 35+ yr old starting soon, I hope to know a lot more in 4 years about this than I do now.

    But for now.. My kids are both older than 5 and had us both around, except during rare business travel, every day by 6:30 or so for every year. Can practicing physicians have provided that normalcy that is crucial for young children? Why is it better to go through training first and then have children? I'd think the most hazardous/difficult path would be to have an infant in MS2.

    I've had good things and bad things happen at work; in this economy it would be very realistic to end up as an unemployed, former middle manager with a mid-6 figure income in my 50s. Will that happen to physicians at that age?

    As a finance person, I've researched that the economics work out neutral to favorable, going from a mid-level white collar position to train to be a specialist and practicing for 20 yrs or so after completing medical training. This assumes I would not become a CFO if I remained on the corp. track, however, and that I'll be accepted at a competitive residency.

    I don't hate my job and have learned a great deal from every position that I've held; am looking at the MD as a better way to do more to make a positive impact for someone every day, rather than make a positive impact on the business bottom line. I don't think I'll save the world, and enjoy making the difference in areas within my control. Can physicians have this impact to a greater extent than a technical business professional with primarily intra-company dealings?

    Despite Panda's experience, prior to beginning this path I researched heavily the divorce rates of physicians and accept the risk, which is similar to the divorce rate of society in general and any other career that I could locate stats on. After speaking with many physicians about this, the keys seem to be communication and focus on the couple. Will see how this comes out, but after many years of marriage, I'm optimistic.
     
  33. travelbug73

    travelbug73 Member

    Joined:
    10.31.03
    Messages:
    160
    SDN 10+ Year Member
    Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and experiences.

    I have debated going to medical school for ever now and this is as good a time as it will ever be. I have no illusions about the rigors of medical training or the practice of medicine and I always tend to imagine the worst. And I do not have the idealism that I used to have when I was younger. We discuss pros and cons every day, we have discussed worst case scenarios and we have put exit strategies in place should those scenarios arise. We also did potential earnings with current profession vis-a-vis medical school debt and future earnings as a practicing physician. If things go as planned, we might still be able to retire at a decent age inspite of medical school.

    My biggest fear: what if do not like any specialty reasonably enough to pursue it for the rest of my life? I do not know if this is normal or not, but that is what it is. I have considered not going just for this reason. But I will never know if I have not tried. We might end up paying a very high price (hopefully only monetarily) if that is indeed the case, but we are willing to give it a shot.

    At this point I think it is worth it, only time will tell if it truly is (or not).
     
  34. Law2Doc

    Law2Doc 5K+ Member Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    12.20.04
    Messages:
    28,065
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Physician SDN 10+ Year Member
    I kind of disagree. I think you appreciate med school a lot more if you aren't looking at it as just another year of school. It's almost better to come back to this kind of intense education once you already have a "real life" perspective. The problem with the younger folks is that they don't have that perspective, and so they sometimes feel more abused when they are scutted out, or take it too much to heart when they get verbally berated, or take some of the more emotional issues a bit harder. If you've been around the block a bit, these things don't hit home as much, IMHO. The only real issue is not getting a paycheck at a later stage of life. Most people in their 30s have expenses a 22 year old doesn't. And that's a hard thing to give up for a decade -- particularly a later decade. But if you can stomach working really hard, and being really poor for something you really want to do, I think it's a fine path.
     
  35. NonTradMed

    NonTradMed Perpetual Student

    Joined:
    01.06.04
    Messages:
    2,308
    Location:
    Somewhere in the middle of nowhere.
    Status:
    Medical Student
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    I don't know if your questions were directed at me, but since you quoted me, I'll give you my two (worthless) cents. :)

    Training is inflexible. First two years, if you are lucky enough to be one of the smarties that can blow exams and still pass, then it possible to do well and have kids. But it is very hard to find several hours to study when you have young children. Clinical years is very difficult to juggle families. You lose control of your schedule, and it changes every rotation. And there's the cost of raising kids on loans. Ugh. Residency will have you working crazy hours but at least you can call for days off etc. But the best time to have kids is when you have maximal control of your schedule and you can earn an income.

    I think that's possibly one of the perks of medicine. Doctors tend to be valuable as they age and gain experience. My parents work in corporate, as did I, and once you hit a certain age, you can be laid off for being too expensive. And if you are laid off at that age for whatever reason, it is hard to find another job that pays just as well. Most doctors work for themselves, and are protected against that sort of corporate downsizing. More importantly, doctors are valued for the experience they bring. Medicine is an art and there are so many things you just can't learn from a book or CME. One of things I look forward to in a medical career is the ability to increase my value and efficiency as I age. :)

    I think it depends on the type of physician. But here's what one resident told me: "Given any year, half of your patients will be too sick for you to do anything, the other half have standard diseases that a monkey could treat, but for the 5 people that you treat out of the year, you have the ability to save their lives or make a substantial impact on their quality of life. And that's what makes medicine worth it". Words to live by, perhaps?

    I'm not sure what you were disagreeing about in my post. I just said from a career and financial standpoint, nontrads have more to lose. We tend to have families and mortgages and promising careers. So nontrads should be careful when selecting a medical career. I also mentioned that no one can answer whether we would enjoy the career emotionally because there are many mitigating factors.

    Or are you referring to the fact I do not enjoy med school? I don't think it has anything to do with me being nontrad. I'm just the type who likes to watch TV, go to fine restaurants and enjoy a nice glass of wine. None of which I can indulge in very much as a med student. :D

    I agree that some 22 year old trad student struggle more because they have never been in the real world and they get crushed by criticisms and the repetitive work environment. It's hard to take criticisms, but the work world did prepare for for that. :p
     
  36. vin5cent0

    vin5cent0

    Joined:
    01.14.08
    Messages:
    759
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    SDN 5+ Year Member
    Sounds like Trismegistus4 is so miserable because he chose a career that requires such absolute dedication for the wrong reasons.

    I see a repeating pattern in his posts - no women are impressed by me going to med school. Grow up, man! I'm only 20, and even I know you do NOT want the sort of women who wants a guy based solely on going to medical school.

    If you're going to medical school because you desire respect and admiration from others, just stop. Stop right there. You'll be just as miserable as this guy is. Seems so obvious to me, yet apparently it isn't to some.

    Oh, and Trismegistus4, you're meeting some weird women if they aren't actually impressed by you being a med student. I'm by no means a great looking, witty, funny guy, but I've had quite a few girls this year interested in me solely because I was pre-med. Anyone can be pre-med!

    I will say it again, though. If some woman wants you just because you're a medical student, be forewarned. That's not someone you want to settle down with.
     
  37. ThinkTooMuch

    ThinkTooMuch

    Joined:
    04.19.09
    Messages:
    339
    Status:
    Pre-Health (Field Undecided)

    do you think it is a good enough reason to go to med school because you simply have a fascniaton with the human body and want to know what makes it tick? In other words, you want to be an expert on the subject of the human body?
     
  38. Law2Doc

    Law2Doc 5K+ Member Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    12.20.04
    Messages:
    28,065
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Physician SDN 10+ Year Member
    I think it needs to be more than a fascination of the human body. If that was all, then become an anatomist (ie a scientist) and skip the residency, overnight call, etc. Medicine is a service industry. You work with patients, more than study them. I'd say you'd want to do a lot of shadowing, and if this kind of service business interests you, only then should you pursue further. You have to be into the practice of medicine, not just the science of medicine for this path to make sense. If you are wrapped up in the fascination of what makes things happen, a science route rather than a service route is a smarter move. That's my two cents.
     
  39. ThinkTooMuch

    ThinkTooMuch

    Joined:
    04.19.09
    Messages:
    339
    Status:
    Pre-Health (Field Undecided)
    thank you. i actually work in the service industry right now but its completely non health. i do enjoy the helping people with their problems part, i have to say. but yes i need to start shadowing real physicians before I can be sure. but then i think, and this is imo of course, that 90% of people who go to med school right after college do not spend 1/10th the time reflecting on why they are going to med school. and the ones that do say why that i have talked to almost always say "good money", "respect", "what else" or some combination of. im 26 btw.
     
  40. flip26

    flip26

    Joined:
    12.20.07
    Messages:
    4,796
    Status:
    Medical Student
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    This is absolutely correct.
     
  41. atomi

    atomi Member

    Joined:
    02.06.05
    Messages:
    1,226
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    -
     
    Last edited: 12.29.09
  42. atomi

    atomi Member

    Joined:
    02.06.05
    Messages:
    1,226
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    nt
     
    Last edited: 04.28.09
  43. atomi

    atomi Member

    Joined:
    02.06.05
    Messages:
    1,226
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    -
     
    Last edited: 12.29.09
  44. pianola

    pianola MS2

    Joined:
    05.23.08
    Messages:
    6,086
    Location:
    Florida
    Status:
    Medical Student
    SDN 5+ Year Member
    Because only women marry doctors for the prestige, money, etc. :rolleyes:
     
  45. Law2Doc

    Law2Doc 5K+ Member Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    12.20.04
    Messages:
    28,065
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Physician SDN 10+ Year Member
    There are pathology paths that don't require going through medical school which probably make more sense though. All I'm saying is that if you are into the science and not the service, then medical school is going to be dreadful for you. This is a path that trains clinicians first and foremost. There are paths that are perhaps less patient oriented once you get through, but I think you have to at least have some interest in the service aspects of medicine to suffer through to that point.
     
  46. QofQuimica

    QofQuimica Seriously, dude, I think you're overreacting.... Administrator SDN Senior Moderator Lifetime Donor

    Joined:
    10.12.04
    Messages:
    17,709
    Location:
    Florida
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Physician PhD Faculty SDN 10+ Year Member
    Anatomists are academic PhDs who mainly teach; some also do research. There may be some overlap between the kind of research that tissue- and organ-level anatomists versus pathologists do, especially if the pathologist is a PhD. But an anatomist will probably be the person teaching your freshman anatomy course in med school, not a pathologist. Pathologists tend to have a more clinically-oriented job even though they technically aren't seeing patients. For example, they may analyze fresh-frozen tissue samples during surgeries, or stage a patient's cancer to help with prognosis and treatment decisions.

    I am not sure where so many people have gotten this idea that most PhDs wish they could be MDs. Maybe it's just because everyone on this forum is trying to get into med school, so it's an issue of generalizing based on a sample that is highly biased? At any rate, it may be true in some cases, but generally, the kind of people who would be attracted to an esoteric field like anatomy (and probably even the pathology PhD route) are not typically the kind of people who would want to be physicians of any type. I don't think it's very likely that most anatomists wish they could be pathologists. If they did, they could have very easily gotten a PhD in path instead of in anatomy. Also, considering that some med schools combine anatomy and path into one department, it would not be unusual for anatomists to already be subsumed within their institution's path department.
     
  47. Trismegistus4

    Trismegistus4 Survivor

    Joined:
    07.22.03
    Messages:
    1,279
    Location:
    Location: Location
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Physician SDN 10+ Year Member
    That's probably true, if your heart is really in it. But, for everyone out there reading this, it's important to keep in mind that it's not going to be a walk in the park just because you don't have a family yet. It's still way too much work for someone who isn't passionate about it. People who come to it with the "what else am I going to do?" attitude (which isn't a great way to go through life anyway, but that's another story) are going to be unhappy whether they have dependents or not.

    Again, for all you out there standing in the shoes I was in 5-6 years ago, the key is something you really want to do. That's not a minor little stipulation, it's what the whole thing comes down to. Don't gloss over that if you're hoping that the intangibles, or the money, power, and chicks, will somehow make it all worthwhile even though you'd rather be sailing. Medicine is not for people who'd rather be sailing.

    I've said before that I got into this for the wrong reasons. I'm not making excuses or trying to justify myself. I'm simply reporting on my situation for the benefit of others like me who may be considering medicine.

    This is as good a time as any to relate a few more unique details about my story. I'm a conservative Christian, which means my focus has always been on getting married rather than just getting laid in the short term. Furthermore, until recently I held the view that conservative Christian women were really focused on getting married, having children, and being housewives, and that they really looked up to and were attracted to guys who pursued prestigious careers like medicine which conjure up the image of a good provider. I continued holding to this view much longer than I should have given the accumulation in my own life of much evidence to the contrary. Before I started medical school, I told myself that the reason I wasn't meeting these girls was that even though I was in a conservative church, I was in the liberal, blue-state Northeast, so even the "conservative" girls there weren't old fashioned anymore. I had hoped that in moving to start medical school in the Midwest, I would find these old-fashioned girls I'd been looking for. That didn't happen, and I had exhausted the last possible outlet, forcing me to finally admit that my ideas about women and relations between the sexes were wrong.

    Guys like me--conservative Christians hoping to attract a wife by taking on the image of a good provider and doing something prestigious--may be a narrow niche, but if there are any such guys out there reading this, I want them to know that it's not going to work. There's a lot of truth in atomi's post. Women aren't the pragmatists you think they are, nor are they perfect, innocent angels. Here's the key point: women, even born-again evangelical Christian ones, aren't going to want to be with you unless they're attracted to you, and what makes women attracted isn't your money or your job, it's your personality and how you come across in social situations. Are you a fun, interesting, exciting guy? Are you self-confident? Do you always have interesting things to talk about? Can you put people at ease in social situations and make them feel comfortable? Do you come across as a leader among your friends? Do you have a good sense of humor? Do you add value to social interactions rather than taking value? Do your body language and level of eye contact project nervousness, or confidence? Do you come across as needy or dependent, or do you come across as though you always have lots of options in life? Are you somber, morose, melancholy, phlegmatic, or are you positive and upbeat but in a calm & collected way that says that nothing's a big deal? That's what women are attracted to.

    Before I discovered the seduction community last winter, I knew this in my heart of hearts but didn't want to hear it, because to me it meant that only cool guys could attract girls, and I was a nerd, not a cool guy, so I was going to have to rely on some process of external posturing like going to medical school. What I know now that I didn't know then is that it's possible to become a cool guy. If you're looking to attract women, that's what you should focus on. Going to medical school is irrelevant, and as much as it pains me to say it from my current position in life, may actually hinder you, because it leaves you with insufficient time to work on your social skills and social life.
     
    Last edited: 04.28.09
  48. Law2Doc

    Law2Doc 5K+ Member Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    12.20.04
    Messages:
    28,065
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Physician SDN 10+ Year Member
    Strongly agree with this.
     
  49. punkiedad

    punkiedad punkie's dad

    Joined:
    02.16.08
    Messages:
    357
    Location:
    NW PA
    Status:
    Medical Student
    SDN 2+ Year Member

    wow.........this thread has some passion in it.

    I am 38 with two kids and a mortgage. I'll skip all the details, but based on what most are saying here I should not be starting school and if I do, I will wind up divorced........hmmmm. Well I guess I will weigh in with a couple of real world nuggets:

    **spent 15 years in corporate america. Was on a real nice fast track (money, promotions, etc...) did very well, but worked a ton and wound up divorced. huge failure on my part. Although it was not med school, it was me totally immersed in my career, without regard to my wife. Heck, it almost happened again. Luckily, experience said I needed to change. My career choice did not. I chose to manage things differnetly. Now what suffers is sleep and me time. A healthy family life is easil worth it.

    **joined the national guard to helkp with the financial details. I thought everyone I knew would think I was crazy, but this is not the case. So, I can now serve my country, along with school and family.

    Again, I won't go through all the details, but I can sum it up like this. IMHO, I think it is about EXPECTATIONS.........I expect to have zero me time (TV, friends, etc...) and no more than 5 hours sleep a night, with variables like tests, etc....even putting more stress on this. My wife, whom I supported in undergrad is ready as well. We know there will be tough times, but the difference is, she is not looking for big money and this really cool med student life........I think we have realistic expectations.

    I know there are no guarantees but I still think it sa lot about expectations.

    One final note, how are people like this Markoff guy able to suceed in medschool while living a seperate life as a murderer? Sounds like he had a lot of free time. I know that was an off the wall one, but I had to ask it. It seems like he should have no time for all the things he was (allegedly) doing.
     
  50. pianola

    pianola MS2

    Joined:
    05.23.08
    Messages:
    6,086
    Location:
    Florida
    Status:
    Medical Student
    SDN 5+ Year Member
    Well, to be fair, if you are a conservative Christian, you just limited your dating pool by a LOT out there (med school or no med school). And I imagine there are relatively few conservative Christian women in med school (assuming they are desiring to become homemakers, as you assert). Generally the ppl I know who have decided to go to medical school are among the more liberal, career-oriented.

    But there are plenty of us nerd-loving women out there. Plenty of us who aren't out there to look for a "good time" but ARE looking for a friend and a partner who will help us through the hard times -- and in turn we will be reliable sources of support. Yeah, a good personality helps get the conversation flowing, for sure. But if you add on the specification "conservative Christian" I mean you pretty much lost a number of otherwise eligible women.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

// Share //

Style: SDN Universal