Is my clinical experience sufficient? How can I improve?

[spade92]

Hospital Emergency Dept volunteer, ~1.5 years, ~300 hours (gave patients food, cleaned up beds, talked to patients)

Free Clinic volunteer, ~1 year, ~100 hours (triaging, took vitals)

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[Doug Underhill]

The median for matriculants is somewhere between 150 and 200 hours, I believe.

 

[spade92]

Did I do the right activities

 

[WedgeDawg]

Did I do the right activities

Did you?

 

[Lawpy]

Did I do the right activities

You need to provide a complete EC list for us to adequately assess you. So far, your clinical experience is fine, provided you have sufficient shadowing (roughly 50 hours).

 

[mimelim]

Hospital Emergency Dept volunteer, ~1.5 years, ~300 hours (gave patients food, cleaned up beds, talked to patients)

Free Clinic volunteer, ~1 year, ~100 hours (triaging, took vitals)

The objective of clinical experience is two fold. The number of hours performed and the exact activities done is completely irrelevant if the two objectives are met.

#1 Does the applicant know what they are getting into. The road to becoming a practicing physician is very long, hard and expensive. If you think that our daily lives is like what people see on TV, you shouldn't be applying to medical school. Spending time around physicians in the clinical setting, interacting with patients (smelling them) allows you to figure out for yourself if you really want to go into medicine. It also gives a little bit of credibility to you when you write in your personal statement, "I want to be a doctor." because you have experiences to draw on, rather than some theoretical understanding of what a physician does.

#2 Does the applicant demonstrate altruistic tendencies. Nobody is expecting applicants to be the next Mother Theresa. But, one of the largest rewards about a career in medicine is the ability to positively impact the lives and health of people. For many of us, it is one of the biggest perks of doing this job. Medicine is a people field. We think that students will be more successful if they are more willing to spend at least some of their free time helping others.


Clinical experiences are NOT about learning medicine. They are NOT about learning how to take care of patients. Nobody can really answer your questions about number of hours or the right activities because we don't have all the information, really only you do. How those activities impacted you are just as relevant as what the activities were themselves. How you convey those experiences on paper and in interviews is another component. We can tell you what the average person does and how it stacks up, but above a certain minimum hour numbers, the absolute hours means very little. Your activities sound in line with what most people do.

 

[NickNaylor]

The objective of clinical experience is two fold. The number of hours performed and the exact activities done is completely irrelevant if the two objectives are met.

#1 Does the applicant know what they are getting into. The road to becoming a practicing physician is very long, hard and expensive. If you think that our daily lives is like what people see on TV, you shouldn't be applying to medical school. Spending time around physicians in the clinical setting, interacting with patients (smelling them) allows you to figure out for yourself if you really want to go into medicine. It also gives a little bit of credibility to you when you write in your personal statement, "I want to be a doctor." because you have experiences to draw on, rather than some theoretical understanding of what a physician does.

#2 Does the applicant demonstrate altruistic tendencies. Nobody is expecting applicants to be the next Mother Theresa. But, one of the largest rewards about a career in medicine is the ability to positively impact the lives and health of people. For many of us, it is one of the biggest perks of doing this job. Medicine is a people field. We think that students will be more successful if they are more willing to spend at least some of their free time helping others.


Clinical experiences are NOT about learning medicine. They are NOT about learning how to take care of patients. Nobody can really answer your questions about number of hours or the right activities because we don't have all the information, really only you do. How those activities impacted you are just as relevant as what the activities were themselves. How you convey those experiences on paper and in interviews is another component. We can tell you what the average person does and how it stacks up, but above a certain minimum hour numbers, the absolute hours means very little. Your activities sound in line with what most people do.

I would add a #3 to say that you must be able to articulate #1 and #2 well. There are plenty of people that can state those things superficially but fall flat to any kind of probing about their interests, goals, etc.. IMO you must have gotten some clinical experience and engaged in some degree of reflection about those experiences to understand how medicine fits into your life and what you want to do. If it's clear that you've thought about "why medicine," then you will have no problem. However, there are plenty of people that I've interacted with that have tons of clinical experience and yet still seem clueless.

 

[Goro]

If I may follow up my learned colleague's comments, especially #2, these experiences also demonstrate to us that you really want to be around sick or injured people and their families for the next 40 years.

The objective of clinical experience is two fold. The number of hours performed and the exact activities done is completely irrelevant if the two objectives are met.

#1 Does the applicant know what they are getting into. The road to becoming a practicing physician is very long, hard and expensive. If you think that our daily lives is like what people see on TV, you shouldn't be applying to medical school. Spending time around physicians in the clinical setting, interacting with patients (smelling them) allows you to figure out for yourself if you really want to go into medicine. It also gives a little bit of credibility to you when you write in your personal statement, "I want to be a doctor." because you have experiences to draw on, rather than some theoretical understanding of what a physician does.

#2 Does the applicant demonstrate altruistic tendencies. Nobody is expecting applicants to be the next Mother Theresa. But, one of the largest rewards about a career in medicine is the ability to positively impact the lives and health of people. For many of us, it is one of the biggest perks of doing this job. Medicine is a people field. We think that students will be more successful if they are more willing to spend at least some of their free time helping others.


Clinical experiences are NOT about learning medicine. They are NOT about learning how to take care of patients. Nobody can really answer your questions about number of hours or the right activities because we don't have all the information, really only you do. How those activities impacted you are just as relevant as what the activities were themselves. How you convey those experiences on paper and in interviews is another component. We can tell you what the average person does and how it stacks up, but above a certain minimum hour numbers, the absolute hours means very little. Your activities sound in line with what most people do.

 

[ConfusedChemist]

Did I do the right activities

No.
wrong. all wrong.

 

[Hospitalized]

Clinical experiences are NOT about learning medicine. They are NOT about learning how to take care of patients.

How do you view scribing?

 

[mimelim]

How do you view scribing?

Job in the medical field. Positive, but people like to oversell it a lot. As far as seeing and reflecting on what a physician does every day, it is a step below shadowing. This surprises a lot of people, but the reality is, if you are focused on working (as you are paid to do), you really aren't free to think about what you need to, which is observing and reflecting on the experience. By the same token, a lot of people have very very positive experiences from scribing and I'd encourage anyone who has interest to try it out.

 

[Catalystik]

Is my clinical experience sufficient? How can I improve?

Hospital Emergency Dept volunteer, ~1.5 years, ~300 hours (gave patients food, cleaned up beds, talked to patients)

Free Clinic volunteer, ~1 year, ~100 hours (triaging, took vitals)

This looks promising for active clinical experience. Do you have some physician shadowing (passive clinical experience) too?

 

[moisne]

Sure...
My school threw out the number "500" but 400 should be pretty good too.

 

[auferstehen92]

Job in the medical field. Positive, but people like to oversell it a lot. As far as seeing and reflecting on what a physician does every day, it is a step below shadowing. This surprises a lot of people, but the reality is, if you are focused on working (as you are paid to do), you really aren't free to think about what you need to, which is observing and reflecting on the experience. By the same token, a lot of people have very very positive experiences from scribing and I'd encourage anyone who has interest to try it out.

Yeah....I vehemently disagree with this viewpoint. Scribing is of course useful, and it will help you get a better idea of what a doctor actually does on a day to day basis, but you are ultimately just a privileged observer, sheltered by the attendant doctors. You don't really contribute in any significant way to the care of the patient, you are not integrated into the work environment, and your responsibilities are basically non-existent. Rather, the whole experience is centered around optimizing your own experience (eg. gaining a few anecdotes for an interview, adding another bullet point to your resume). It's incredibly self-absorbed, and really, what can you learn in 4o hours of scribing that won't be easily learned in 2 during medical school?

Working in a medical environment on the other hand forces you to acknowledge your own ignorance. You don't get to hang on to the doctor's coat tails, flitting around from room to room as if you've earned some sort of respect just because you've taken rudimentary science courses. Rather, you get your hands dirty. You have to actually talk to the patients as equals; they'll tell you things (both good and bad) that they wouldn't in the presence of a doctor. You learn to respect nurses, phlebotomists, janitors, lab techs, etc. It is at once a belittling experience, and an incredibly transformative one. The delusion that as a pre-med student, you have some inherent quality or educational esteem, is completely dispelled, and you learn to appreciate the entire medical team. Not just the doctors.

 

[mimelim]

Yeah....I vehemently disagree with this viewpoint. Scribing is of course useful, and it will help you get a better idea of what a doctor actually does on a day to day basis, but you are ultimately just a privileged observer, sheltered by the attendant doctors. You don't really contribute in any significant way to the care of the patient, you are not integrated into the work environment, and your responsibilities are basically non-existent. Rather, the whole experience is centered around optimizing your own experience (eg. gaining a few anecdotes for an interview, adding another bullet point to your resume). It's incredibly self-absorbed, and really, what can you learn in 4o hours of scribing that won't be easily learned in 2 during medical school?

Working in a medical environment on the other hand forces you to acknowledge your own ignorance. You don't get to hang on to the doctor's coat tails, flitting around from room to room as if you've earned some sort of respect just because you've taken rudimentary science courses. Rather, you get your hands dirty. You have to actually talk to the patients as equals; they'll tell you things (both good and bad) that they wouldn't in the presence of a doctor. You learn to respect nurses, phlebotomists, janitors, lab techs, etc. It is at once a belittling experience, and an incredibly transformative one. The delusion that as a pre-med student, you have some inherent quality or educational esteem, is completely dispelled, and you learn to appreciate the entire medical team. Not just the doctors.

I don't think you read my post before you quoted it.

#1 Scribing is helpful for getting into medical school, which you agree with.
#2 Scribing is a job, which can get in the way of observership because you have responsibilities.
#3 Nobody is arguing that you are caring for patients as a scribe. You are being paid to make paperwork easier for physicians. Nobody disputes that.
#4 I never scribed, have only had limited interactions with scribes given that we don't use any at our hospital and I really only ran across them in medical school, but give me a break. It is a job that people do. They get experience, money and a bullet point on their resume. That is what most jobs are. I'm not exactly sure how that is "self-absorbed". Yes, people benefit from them doing it, that is why they are doing it.
#5 Nobody is arguing that scribing teaches you things that you learn in medical school.
#6 Your second paragraph, I'm not exactly sure what to make of. Mainly because, unlike the first one which sorta kinda has something to do with this thread has nothing to do with anything anyone is talking about.

I still have no idea why you quoted my post to say that you disagree with it given that you didn't say anything related to my post or any positions that are opposed to it. It looks like you are arguing with some imaginary poster and are losing, badly.

 

[auferstehen92]

Yes I should have written "shadowing" in place of "scribing". And I'll acknowledge that scribing is indeed a job with responsibilities.

Perhaps I misconstrued what you had written in your previous post, but I thought you might be valuing the experience of shadowing above that of actually working in the medical field. Of course, in a certain context, I suppose this could be true ("observing and reflecting on the experience"), but that's generally not the case. I was simply reacting to the attitude that people "oversell" the value of working in medicine. In fact, I think it's far more often the case that people oversell the value of shadowing.

And If you can't discern the relevance of a paragraph that stresses the positive aspects of working in a medical field, to a comment that begins with "Jobs in the medical field. Positive, but people like to oversell it a lot." I suggest that you work on your analytical skills. My reaction might have been a slightly misdirected, but to say you had "no idea" what I was talking about beggars belief.

 

[puglet]

Apologies in advance for inserting myself... @auferstehen92, with all due respect, I do think you misconstrued @mimelim's meaning. I don't think mimelim was saying that generally a job in the medical field was "positive, but people like to oversell it a lot."

My interpretation of what mimelim was saying (since the question he was answering was "how do you view scribing?") is that scribing specifically is a "job in the medical field" which is seen as "positive, but people like to oversell it a lot" and that "if you are focused on [scribing] (as you are paid to do), you really aren't free to think about what you need to, which is observing and reflecting on the experience." Mimelim did not say anything about people overselling working in the medical field in a general sense and I did not get the impression that s/he values shadowing over having a job in the medical field (with the exception of scribing).

 

[auferstehen92]

Yes you're correct, I definitely misread that...and I definitely overreacted so my apologies to @mimelim