Is Physician Assistant school a good investment rather than medical school?

[sjs101]

I am a freshman at Ohio State University and starting out I was pre-med but I am reconsidering. I'm not sure if the amount of time in school and debt accumulated is worth it anymore. Also i have chronic fatigue and get stressed easily so I'm not sure I can handle it. I want to have a balanced life and I'm not really interested in administrative work that doctors do and I have heard PAs often end up seeing more patients a day than doctors? Which is what I want to be doing. I have done a lot of research on both and one thing I have heard is PAs don't always feel they get the respect they deserve. When I tell people i want to be a PA they kind of act like I am lazy for not going the MD route. Are there PAs who regret not going to medical school?

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[Pacna]

Are there PAs who regret not going to medical school?

Of course there are. They are also physicians who regret not going to PA school.

Choose what you think is best for you. Don't let anybody else (especially the perfectionist crowd on SDN) tell you which career to choose.

I suggest that you spend a good amount of time shadowing. You'll get an idea what's best for you.

Good luck!

 

[deleted407021]

I second shadowing. You need to see both practitioners at work and explore their lives for a bit so you can determine which one you would rather be doing as a career. Best of luck!

 

[Chillywilly]

It's also about what you want out of your career. Both are financially secure jobs, although doctors do make more money (or even equal) compared to PAs. It's also about the status. Do you want to have the MD/DO status, where everyone calls your "DR" instead of "Mr?" Do you want to call the shots or do you want to take orders from someone else? These are the questions.

 

[sjs101]

Thanks for the responses! Also, I have heard its not true that you are told what to do often by a doctor, and that sometimes they don't even work on the same floor as you. I think the definition of a PA as working under the supervision of a doctor is offensive as if they are not capable of doing everything correctly. Research has shown patients are just as satisfied from be treated by PAs as physicians

 

[Makati2008]

I am a freshman at Ohio State University and starting out I was pre-med but I am reconsidering. I'm not sure if the amount of time in school and debt accumulated is worth it anymore. Also i have chronic fatigue and get stressed easily so I'm not sure I can handle it. I want to have a balanced life and I'm not really interested in administrative work that doctors do and I have heard PAs often end up seeing more patients a day than doctors? Which is what I want to be doing. I have done a lot of research on both and one thing I have heard is PAs don't always feel they get the respect they deserve. When I tell people i want to be a PA they kind of act like I am lazy for not going the MD route. Are there PAs who regret not going to medical school?

Knowing what I know now....I would advise you stay the course for medical school. I was a PA first that decided to go back and here is why:

1.)respect- until you deal with a physician refusing to take your patient because he wont talk to PAs then you have no clue what this means/ feels like but I can tell you it's frustrating. This is more common than you think. Would you want to deal with this at 50yo? Also the patients wanting to speak to the doctor instead of you.

2. ) better education- PAs hit a glass ceiling and their knowledge base hits it at some point in their career

3.) money- I was an anomaly(as are a few of my friends) and made greater to 160k/year. But my attendings at the job I left for this high paying job are making 200/Hour so you do the math on an average work year....

 

[Pacna]

Thanks for the responses! Also, I have heard its not true that you are told what to do often by a doctor, and that sometimes they don't even work on the same floor as you. I think the definition of a PA as working under the supervision of a doctor is offensive as if they are not capable of doing everything correctly. Research has shown patients are just as satisfied from be treated by PAs as physicians

Patient satisfaction is a sh*ttastic metric of quality of care.

Studies have also shown that if you give everyone antibiotics and IV pain medication that patient satisfaction goes up significantly.

Not that what you said isn't true; I just wanted to point this out.

 

[ruedjgtc]

I am a freshman at Ohio State University and starting out I was pre-med but I am reconsidering. I'm not sure if the amount of time in school and debt accumulated is worth it anymore. Also i have chronic fatigue and get stressed easily so I'm not sure I can handle it. I want to have a balanced life and I'm not really interested in administrative work that doctors do and I have heard PAs often end up seeing more patients a day than doctors? Which is what I want to be doing. I have done a lot of research on both and one thing I have heard is PAs don't always feel they get the respect they deserve. When I tell people i want to be a PA they kind of act like I am lazy for not going the MD route. Are there PAs who regret not going to medical school?

First off, let me say that you shouldn't feel ashamed. Lazy? Yeah right! There are a lot of comparable ways to help patients and/or your community. As a freshman, you may want to get some shadowing hours with both professions, maybe that would help you make up your mind. If that's not possible, try to get with your pre-health person at your school, they may be able to point you towards a good mentor.

However, I'm sure both PAs and physicians must deal with high levels of stress and administrative work (especially with reimbursements pretty much hinging on meticulous documentation with ACA). Concerning the respect thing, I think you can find any field that feels the same: PAs, docs, nurses, auxiliary staff. You'll always have a few bad apples that are just there to put you down. But, I think it' really be more of an internal question than anything else. And this brings up your last question, and that I can't answer -- but, I'm sure you'll find both sides.

Though, at this stage of your career perhaps it's better to address your anxiety issues, it's a common problem. Everyone just hides it, so people suffer silently thinking it's their fault. Try some free confidential counseling at your university, its part of your university fees FYI.

 

[Makati2008]

Also if you think that is offensive to have a Physician supervising you then medical school is your best bet. This is a MAJOR patient safety issue to me.

You need someone looking over the documentation and ddx of a PA(especially a new grad) due to having so many things that will be missed by someone that is new in the field of medicine as well as not being residency trained in his or her respective field.

 

[Wasted Energy]

The scope of practice laws vary by state for PA's as well, so maybe do some research on that in the state(s) you plan to practice in.

 

[Makati2008]

The scope of practice laws vary by state for PA's as well, so maybe do some research on that in the state(s) you plan to practice in.

Agreed. I see you mentioned OSU and I am here to tell you that Ohio can be a very bad state to practice.

 

[qwerty89]

I am a freshman at Ohio State University and starting out I was pre-med but I am reconsidering. I'm not sure if the amount of time in school and debt accumulated is worth it anymore. Also i have chronic fatigue and get stressed easily so I'm not sure I can handle it. I want to have a balanced life and I'm not really interested in administrative work that doctors do and I have heard PAs often end up seeing more patients a day than doctors? Which is what I want to be doing. I have done a lot of research on both and one thing I have heard is PAs don't always feel they get the respect they deserve. When I tell people i want to be a PA they kind of act like I am lazy for not going the MD route. Are there PAs who regret not going to medical school?

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...ool-a-worthwhile-investment-for-women/260051/

Tldr: The median woman in primary care would be better off financially as a PA. Why? Partly because they earn less per hr on average than men but mainly because they do not work enough hours to justify the large opportunity cost of becoming a physician. This does not apply outside of primary care or for men.

Here is the actual paper
http://www.anderson.ucla.edu/faculty/keith.chen/papers/GenderNPV_WorkingPaper.pdf

 

[sjs101]

I plan on moving out of state anyways if I were to go to pa school there are only a few in ohio and they aren't very good so that's not a problem

 

[Makati2008]

I plan on moving out of state anyways if I were to go to pa school there are only a few in ohio and they aren't very good so that's not a problem

You seem to be thinking this through very well. I can tell you it's a hard decision. I was 20 when I was accepted so I can relate to trying to figure it all out.

If you ever have any questions please let me know.

 

[mimelim]

There are major advantages of being a PA. Flexibility, less hours, less responsibility, shorter, less expensive training, (easier) ability to switch specialties, just to name a few. There are a lot of people, I dare say a significant fraction of my med school classmates who would have been happier if they went the PA route from the beginning.

On the other hand. In my experience (small and large academic centers and large community hospitals), NPs and PAs tend to function as perpetual residents. Yes, they get paid 4 times as much as we do (twice the salary and half the hours), but they function largely interchangeably with residents and never can take that next step and simply have their own practice.

 

[Mt Kilimanjaro]

In my experience (small and large academic centers and large community hospitals), NPs and PAs tend to function as perpetual residents.

I think this is the key point. That role is fine for some, intolerable for others.

The MD also opens up a lot of non-clinical possibilities that aren't there with a PA degree. If policy, research, consulting, etc interest you, the MD opens up a lot more doors down the road.

 

[Makati2008]

There are major advantages of being a PA. Flexibility, less hours, less responsibility, shorter, less expensive training, (easier) ability to switch specialties, just to name a few. There are a lot of people, I dare say a significant fraction of my med school classmates who would have been happier if they went the PA route from the beginning.

On the other hand. In my experience (small and large academic centers and large community hospitals), NPs and PAs tend to function as perpetual residents. Yes, they get paid 4 times as much as we do (twice the salary and half the hours), but they function largely interchangeably with residents and never can take that next step and simply have their own practice.

I agree with you on the great majority of what you said.

PA schools are going to lose the flexibility to keep switching as the CAQs become mainstream.

Also NP have independent practice in several states(disagree with this due to lack of training)

 

[BestDoctorEver]

PA FM..... Loan amount = 60-80k... salary 100k x 35 years = $3.5 mil ... You don't get to call the shots
MD/DO FM .... Loan amount = 250k .... salary 170k x 30 years = $5.1 mil .... You DO get to call the shots (I personally like this part).

I will choose the second one if I am less than 30 years old starting one of these programs... That is just me!

 

[TX515]

I am a freshman at Ohio State University and starting out I was pre-med but I am reconsidering. I'm not sure if the amount of time in school and debt accumulated is worth it anymore. Also i have chronic fatigue and get stressed easily so I'm not sure I can handle it. I want to have a balanced life and I'm not really interested in administrative work that doctors do and I have heard PAs often end up seeing more patients a day than doctors? Which is what I want to be doing. I have done a lot of research on both and one thing I have heard is PAs don't always feel they get the respect they deserve. When I tell people i want to be a PA they kind of act like I am lazy for not going the MD route. Are there PAs who regret not going to medical school?

I'm glad you are thinking about this huge step in your life and weighing pros/cons, something I did not do. Who cares what other people think of your career choice, so long as YOU are happy.

PA is an excellent career choice. You get paid, you have many career choices (derm, surgery, etc.), PAs are in demand (cheaper than MDs), shorter training, typically Mon-Friday, no call, no weekends...I mean c'mon, this is a great opportunity.

Having said that, I am glad I took the MD route, and I wouldn't want a PA caring for me. There is a big gap in knowledge between PAs and MDs. Of course the training is longer and residency can be grueling. MDs typically work longer hours and take more call. They make more money but unfortunately don't have the time to enjoy it. There are few lifestyle friendly career options for an MD regardless of what you hear.

I prefer MD because I care more about knowledge than the fast track to a career. I would be happy with PA as what a PA career can bring (stability, life outside of medicine) more so than the life of an MD surgeon (60-80 hrs week, q3-q4 call, etc.).

What are your priorities? Family, life outside of medicine, stability, high salary? PA is excellent choice (although as a PA, you will still have the stress of caring for someone; the training is a little less stressful as there is no residency).

For me personally, I found myself in a field I love that happens to afford me the lifestyle of a PA. It was very tough to get where I'm at, and I can't recommend that road to everyone, as everyone is different.

Bottom line is look at your priorities, and choose what is best for YOU. Feel free to PM me for further advice/questions!

 

[Makati2008]

I'm glad you are thinking about this huge step in your life and weighing pros/cons, something I did not do. Who cares what other people think of your career choice, so long as YOU are happy.

PA is an excellent career choice. You get paid, you have many career choices (derm, surgery, etc.), PAs are in demand (cheaper than MDs), shorter training, typically Mon-Friday, no call, no weekends...I mean c'mon, this is a great opportunity.

Having said that, I am glad I took the MD route, and I wouldn't want a PA caring for me. There is a big gap in knowledge between PAs and MDs. Of course the training is longer and residency can be grueling. MDs typically work longer hours and take more call. They make more money but unfortunately don't have the time to enjoy it. There are few lifestyle friendly career options for an MD regardless of what you hear.

I prefer MD because I care more about knowledge than the fast track to a career. I would be happy with PA as what a PA career can bring (stability, life outside of medicine) more so than the life of an MD surgeon (60-80 hrs week, q3-q4 call, etc.).

What are your priorities? Family, life outside of medicine, stability, high salary? PA is excellent choice (although as a PA, you will still have the stress of caring for someone; the training is a little less stressful as there is no residency).

For me personally, I found myself in a field I love that happens to afford me the lifestyle of a PA. It was very tough to get where I'm at, and I can't recommend that road to everyone, as everyone is different.

Bottom line is look at your priorities, and choose what is best for YOU. Feel free to PM me for further advice/questions!

Very good post just a few things
PAs do work weekends and do take call. This is becoming more and more typical over the years. Why bug a Physician when the Midlevel can answer the question or come admit the patient.....

Also your comment about not seeing a PA due to training should at least make the op wonder if he is picking the right path due to this being a somewhat common occurrence he will face when having to hear patients say I refuse to see a PA I want to see the Dr.

 

[mimelim]

PA FM..... Loan amount = 60-80k... salary 100k x 35 years = $3.5 mil ... You don't get to call the shots
MD/DO FM .... Loan amount = 250k .... salary 170k x 30 years = $5.1 mil .... You DO get to call the shots (I personally like this part).

I will choose the second one if I am less than 30 years old starting one of these programs... That is just me!

Money is a very poor motivator and your example is missing massive components to the financial calculation. First, you lose out on a tremendous amount of income because of time loss secondary to extra training. If it is 4 more years of training, that is 4 years of end of career earnings lost. Second, these are loans that have interest. 250k in loans is not the same as paying back 250k. If you are on an FM salary, you will be paying that back over a number of years. Be prepared to pay $100-200k in interest on that loan.

Also, realize that you will work far harder and longer hours to make that salary.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

Money is a very poor motivator and your example is missing massive components to the financial calculation. First, you lose out on a tremendous amount of income because of time loss secondary to extra training. If it is 4 more years of training, that is 4 years of end of career earnings lost. Second, these are loans that have interest. 250k in loans is not the same as paying back 250k. If you are on an FM salary, you will be paying that back over a number of years. Be prepared to pay $100-200k in interest on that loan.

Also, realize that you will work far harder and longer hours to make that salary.

So you think PA school is a better financial investment than med school... By the way, I was strictly answering OP's question. I never said that one should ONLY consider money when making these decisions... Money is a poor motivator! Seriously!

 

[TX515]

Very good post just a few things
PAs do work weekends and do take call. This is becoming more and more typical over the years. Why bug a Physician when the Midlevel can answer the question or come admit the patient.....

Also your comment about not seeing a PA due to training should at least make the op wonder if he is picking the right path due to this being a somewhat common occurrence he will face when having to hear patients say I refuse to see a PA I want to see the Dr.

Thanks, I stand corrected. Given the options and job market for PAs, I'd be hard pressed to take a job with more than minimum call and/or weekends. There are just too many options. Not so much with MD.

I don't think the OP should make a decision based on what other people think is best, such as someone not wanting to be treated by a PA. A PA will have a successful career, one that is salaried. So a patient doesn't want to be treated by a PA, big deal, let the PA go take a coffee break or nap.

OP, PA will be an excellent and rewarding career. As Mimelim said, PA is attractive even to many medical students.

 

[Optimus-Prime]

I have friends who scribed and it helped them make the decision. Day in and day out they saw the inner workings of an ER, 2 switched to PA

 

[mimelim]

So you think PA school is a better financial investment than med school... By the way, I was strictly answering OP's question. I never said that one should ONLY consider money when making these decisions... Money is a poor motivator! Seriously!

Can you link me to a post where I said something even remotely to the tune of "PA school is a better financial investment than med school"? In case you really didn't understand my post and aren't trolling I'll simplify:


Your calculations were grossly inadequate for making any remotely sensible comparison between a FM PA and FM MD.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

Can you link me to a post where I said something even remotely to the tune of "PA school is a better financial investment than med school"? In case you really didn't understand my post and aren't trolling I'll simplify:


Your calculations were grossly inadequate for making any remotely sensible comparison between a FM PA and FM MD.

.....

 

[DermViser]

There are major advantages of being a PA. Flexibility, less hours, less responsibility, shorter, less expensive training, (easier) ability to switch specialties, just to name a few. There are a lot of people, I dare say a significant fraction of my med school classmates who would have been happier if they went the PA route from the beginning.

On the other hand. In my experience (small and large academic centers and large community hospitals), NPs and PAs tend to function as perpetual residents. Yes, they get paid 4 times as much as we do (twice the salary and half the hours), but they function largely interchangeably with residents and never can take that next step and simply have their own practice.

So true, it's not even funny. But to be fair: They pay A LOT less in tuition and have a lot less in # of years in educational investment post-college. Not to mention, they can switch specialties more easily.

 

[DermViser]

PA FM..... Loan amount = 60-80k... salary 100k x 35 years = $3.5 mil ... You don't get to call the shots
MD/DO FM .... Loan amount = 250k .... salary 170k x 30 years = $5.1 mil .... You DO get to call the shots (I personally like this part).

I will choose the second one if I am less than 30 years old starting one of these programs... That is just me!

You apparently haven't heard of this thing, called accruing interest.
I'm assuming also, that you're only taking loans on tuition only and not the other myriad of expenses: living, residency fees, etc.

 

[medic86]

One of the best ED providers I have ever worked with happened to be a PA (has a PhD in PA studies).

The guy was not only an excellent clinician, but he was an awesome teacher as well.

That being said: do what is calling you. There is nothing wrong with either option.

 

[IAhawkeye]

I struggled to make the decision as well, pa or md? Currently I have decided to go for the PA route for a number of reasons, many of which were discussed. One thing that helped me decide was shadowing and the fact that I work with both professions, talk to PAs and MDs and ask questions to see which YOU think you would be happiest in. Also, if you go the PA route and later decide you want to become a doctor there is at least one PA to DO bridge program that is 6 years in length. There might be more but I'm not sure, in short, do what you think will make you happy and you can't go wrong.

 

[Psai]

Thanks for the responses! Also, I have heard its not true that you are told what to do often by a doctor, and that sometimes they don't even work on the same floor as you. I think the definition of a PA as working under the supervision of a doctor is offensive as if they are not capable of doing everything correctly. Research has shown patients are just as satisfied from be treated by PAs as physicians

It's not offensive, it's the job description. Our job is to treat patients medically, not to strive for "patient satisfaction".

.....

Dawg your whole name is wrong

 

[TactFR44]

I am a freshman at Ohio State University and starting out I was pre-med but I am reconsidering. I'm not sure if the amount of time in school and debt accumulated is worth it anymore. Also i have chronic fatigue and get stressed easily so I'm not sure I can handle it. I want to have a balanced life and I'm not really interested in administrative work that doctors do and I have heard PAs often end up seeing more patients a day than doctors? Which is what I want to be doing. I have done a lot of research on both and one thing I have heard is PAs don't always feel they get the respect they deserve. When I tell people i want to be a PA they kind of act like I am lazy for not going the MD route. Are there PAs who regret not going to medical school?

I'm in the same position. I honestly just don't want the hassle that comes with being a doctor. Everyone has a boss. Even if you are a doctor you will almost all the time still have a boss! I cherish my time away from work and I could never let that go ever. I had people tell me "Dude you have a 3.97 why are you gonna go be the assistant when you can easily go to med school". My answer "It's not what I want in life" (keyword: I). Figuring out what's best for you will get you there. Don't feel rushed to make the decision. PA is a great field (to the poster who said he didn't want to be treated by a PA. Great! Do you honestly think someone would be offended by that? lol. One less ignorant person we have to be around). Some people on here have their heads up their ass about doctor status this and that. GTFO. If people could only hear themselves speak lol.

 

[Boolean]

I'm in the same position. I honestly just don't want the hassle that comes with being a doctor. Everyone has a boss. Even if you are a doctor you will almost all the time still have a boss! I cherish my time away from work and I could never let that go ever. I had people tell me "Dude you have a 3.97 why are you gonna go be the assistant when you can easily go to med school". My answer "It's not what I want in life" (keyword: I). Figuring out what's best for you will get you there. Don't feel rushed to make the decision. PA is a great field (to the poster who said he didn't want to be treated by a PA. Great! Do you honestly think someone would be offended by that? lol. One less ignorant person we have to be around). Some people on here have their heads up their ass about doctor status this and that. GTFO. If people could only hear themselves speak lol.

do you want a cookie or something

 

[Pierre Escargot]

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner for bump of the year. When you've grown taller between the 'original' last post and the subsequent bump, you win bump of the year. Kudos.

 

[TactFR44]

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner for bump of the year. When you've grown taller between the 'original' last post and the subsequent bump, you win bump of the year. Kudos.

Thanks!

 

[circulus vitios]

PA FM..... Loan amount = 60-80k... salary 100k x 35 years = $3.5 mil ... You don't get to call the shots
MD/DO FM .... Loan amount = 250k .... salary 170k x 30 years = $5.1 mil .... You DO get to call the shots (I personally like this part).

I will choose the second one if I am less than 30 years old starting one of these programs... That is just me!

I'm attending a private school with a $70k/yr COA. I expect to owe ~$430k in loans by the end of a 3 year residency: $30k undergrad, $280k med school, plus compounding interest both. Just saying.

If you're looking at return on investment, CRNA school comes out miles ahead of PA and MD/DO. $30k nursing degree at a state college, work 3 years in an ICU/NICU to gain experience for CRNA school and get paid $50k/yr to do so. The following data is pulled from this article: http://www.aana.com/newsandjournal/Documents/cost-edu-non-phys-anes-prov-0214-p25-31.pdf

Of the included nurse anesthesia programs, 60 are
private schools and 48 are public institutions. The
median cost of the public CRNA programs is $37,243
compared with a private program cost of $61,345. The
median tuition and fees for all nurse anesthesia programs
is $50,077, and the median program length is 28 months.
Data for nurse anesthesia programs are current as of
October 2012.
Average provider compensation for CRNAs in 2011,
as reported by the MGMA Physician Compensation and
Production Survey8, was $156,642. Median compensation
was $158,092. The highest CRNA compensation
was reported in the Midwest region of the United States
(median $166,752). The lowest compensation was in the

4 years of undergrad + 3 years of work + 28 months of training. In that time frame you will accumulate a gross ~$150k/yr from 3 years of work and spend $70-90k on student loans. You'll come out making ~$155k/yr at age 28.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

I'm attending a private school with a $70k/yr COA. I expect to owe ~$430k in loans by the end of a 3 year residency: $30k undergrad, $280k med school, plus compounding interest both. Just saying.

If you're looking at return on investment, CRNA school comes out miles ahead of PA and MD/DO. $30k nursing degree at a state college, work 3 years in an ICU/NICU to gain experience for CRNA school and get paid $50k/yr to do so. The following data is pulled from this article: http://www.aana.com/newsandjournal/Documents/cost-edu-non-phys-anes-prov-0214-p25-31.pdf



4 years of undergrad + 3 years of work + 28 months of training. In that time frame you will accumulate a gross ~$150k/yr from 3 years of work and spend $70-90k on student loans. You'll come out making ~$155k/yr at age 28.

$430k student loan in insane... You better become a big time specialist!

 

[circulus vitios]

$430k student loan in insane... You better become a big time specialist!

If I stick with med school, I'm going on PAYE. Uncle Sam can pick up the tab on the forgiven debt.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

If I stick with med school, I'm going on PAYE. Uncle Sam can pick up the tab on the forgiven debt.

Good luck with the GOP in control now! You better try to kill step1 so you can have the option of top $ specialties...

 

[Neuro244]

Hey guys I wanted to get your opinion as I just started looking at possibly pursuing PA school rather than med school, which is what I've been busting my ass for for so many years. I'm trying to make a decision, but am weighing out the pros/cons. Here's my situation:

I'm 28 years old and plan on applying to med school this July, so I'd start med school at age 29, finish by 33, and not finish residency till 37-38 (old!). I received my B.A. in Psychology from CSUN back in 2013, and along that journey decided I don't want to be a therapist. Before that however, when I first started college, I thought for sure I want to be a psychologist (Masters/doctorate degree) and practice, but changed my mind due to not wanting to listen to peoples problems. I then said I'll do medical school but then got discouraged in my 2nd year of classes by these two guys who told me about all the difficult courses I'd need to take to become a doctor. At that point I said screw it, I'll do something like chiropractor/physical therapist, but starting is only 70-80 k which is much less than what I want to make for the years I put into school. However, I started taking classes that would fulfill some requirements for these careers but wasn't satisfied with the salary. I then started CSUN and did psych major, got my B.A. as I said, and then said maybe i'll do pharmacy. I tried to avoid all the hard sciences and still wanted to make big money, but realized that there's no way around them.

I then decided upon graduating that I should be a doctor, and I'm not interested in pharmacy. The thing that brought me back to this field though is the money. I mean I don't hate medicine/the sciences, but I also don't love it/have a passion for it (like most people who are doctors). It's not bad overall, but I don't love it you know, I don't mind it, but I had no interest in any of the pre-med school courses (physics, chemistry, bio was okay). Anyways, since I changed my mind a few times, it took me 9 years and 3 months to get an associates,bachelors, and do all my med school pre-req courses. In that time I wasted 3 years or so because of uncertainty. I also do volunteer work at UCLA (2.7 years), Kaiser (almost 3.5 years), and at a hospice for about 2.7 years. I like working with people and I'm good at it, but I don't love it. Moreover, now that it's time to study for the MCAT, I find myself questioning things and if I've been this miserable just getting through these pre-reqs, If I should dedicate another 4 years to be a doctor, and then on top of that another 4 year residency for neurology (or radiology--5 years), which by the way is one of the lowest paid specialties (ranked 16th/22), with an entry level salary of 180k (vs. radiology ~350k).

When looking at PA versus Med school, I see it like this:

1. Schooling is 24-27 months versus 4 years of med school.
2. No residency, versus med school. **These 2 points alone save you 6 years of your life and you wouldn't be giving up on opportunity costs**
3. Less debt when you graduate
4. School isn't as hard to get into/training is a bit easier
5. Entry level salary for graduate is anywhere from 83-90k (hopefully the higher end) vs residency (3-7 years) where you get paid 30-55k, but obviously later you get paid more than a PA.
6. Now correct me if I'm wrong on this one, but PA can do a specialty in let's say radiology, which would require another 1-2 years of fellowship? This specialty can rake in 150k, or dermatology, which can make 130k, which isn't bad.
7. You're not on call as often/at all (correct or no)? Not working weekends/nights as often
8. More of a life for family, friends, or going out outside of work
9. No need to take the MCAT, you take GRE instead, which is slightly easier I'd imagine.

These are some of the more obvious points (positive ones). I look at it from a financial standpoint/time standpoint. I save time and money going down the PA route but am wondering if I busted my ass for so many years, if I should just become an MD, but I don't want to be miserable. If I do radiology (diagnostic) which I find cool because you don't work with as many patients and they're one of the top paying specialties, as well as you have more flexibility, I can make starting 330-350 k, BUT that's after 4 years of med school and a 5 year residency. I've shadowed a physician already and had him write me a letter of recommendation, as well as other professors who are working on my letter as of now.

If you guys were in my position, what would be your advice, and what do you think based off of this description I've given you, would be the smarter choice? If you have any ?s you want to ask me that will better help you help me, please ask!

Thank you very much!

 

[missingtoes]

Knowing what I know now....I would advise you stay the course for medical school. I was a PA first that decided to go back and here is why:

1.)respect- until you deal with a physician refusing to take your patient because he wont talk to PAs then you have no clue what this means/ feels like but I can tell you it's frustrating. This is more common than you think. Would you want to deal with this at 50yo? Also the patients wanting to speak to the doctor instead of you.

2. ) better education- PAs hit a glass ceiling and their knowledge base hits it at some point in their career

3.) money- I was an anomaly(as are a few of my friends) and made greater to 160k/year. But my attendings at the job I left for this high paying job are making 200/Hour so you do the math on an average work year....

Which specialty did you work in?

 

[Neuro244]

Which specialty did you work in?

I shadowed a doctor of Internal medicine, and thought it was interesting. Again I'm debating if it's worth going down this route. Another field im considering is chiropractor, but you have to be very business savy for that field. What are the pros and cons of PA vs MD, and a PA vs a chiropractor in your opinion?

 

[Azete]

Nothing to really add that hasn't been said, but a lot has been made of the "knowledge gap" which is true in most cases, but like MDs it's all about how proactive you are in learning after your training. It's been said med school is where you learn to study and residency is where you actually learn medicine -- and PAs spend pretty much their entire careers as residents. Most doctors forget the majority of the pre-clinical minutiae anyway.

I've seen highly specialized PAs that are indiscernible from MDs in a narrow spectrum of expertise. I've also seen PAs that are indiscernible from a pile of rocks. It's all about what you make of it.

 

[TBV]

I absolutely regret that I did not at least kick the tires on PA school. I never even thought about it and I'd be practicing by now making double the average household income at 24 driving a nice BMW. Screw the knowledge gap or knowing that someone is above you, my ego doesn't need that stroking like most of the people on here. All things considered I'm very happy to be where I am but the decision would have been harder if I went back 3 years

 

[raiderette]

I volunteer at a place with PAs and most thought my personality was best suited for MD. That said, the ones I know do have a good income and feel confident about their job. If I were you I would shadow both to make a more informed decision. As for the work/life balance, I volunteer in a community setting, so many of the PAs have "bad" schedules, just like physicians. They don't have residents to work the odd hours. As for getting in, be prepared to work in a clinical setting all through college in order to scrape together your clinical hours. For MD, adcoms want you to have an idea of what it means to be a doctor and help people. For PA school they want a lot of actual clinical hours in order to get in. Also, there are a few classes that while recommended for MD are required for PA.

 

[jqueb29]

I shadowed a doctor of Internal medicine, and thought it was interesting. Again I'm debating if it's worth going down this route. Another field im considering is chiropractor, but you have to be very business savy for that field. What are the pros and cons of PA vs MD, and a PA vs a chiropractor in your opinion?

Don't be a chiropractor. The field is saturated beyond belief, and it's not real science.

 

[SouthParkStudio]

Of course there are. They are also physicians who regret not going to PA school.

Choose what you think is best for you. Don't let anybody else (especially the perfectionist crowd on SDN) tell you which career to choose.

I suggest that you spend a good amount of time shadowing. You'll get an idea what's best for you.

Good luck!

I personally regret not going to PA or NP school. Med school wasn't for me. So stressful, and for what? Mid levels can do almost the same thing as MDs except surgery.

U want to do gas? CRNA
primary care? check
psyche? Check
derm? Check
ob? Check
IR? Check

Going to PA/NP? Check mate.

 

[optimistic3]

I think everything @scrublyfe21 said is on point. I very strongly considered PA school but after shadowing, I changed my mind. Everything about the lifestyle and short schooling was more of what I wanted but the knowledge gap is the main factor that turned me off of it. All the PAs I've met have loved it but I didn't want to not know how to treat all of my patients. The PA that I shadowed had to go to her SP for most of the patients and I've seen this in other settings as well. You've gotta be lucky enough to have a good and understanding SP otherwise you may be in over your head.

Plus a lot of PAs have said that they end up working similar hours as the physician but making 1/2 or 1/3 the salary. Not to mention the lack of respect from either patients or other physicians. Am I going to want to still be just the PA at 40 or 50 years old? I don't think so.

As much as I still believe in all the downsides of med school that made me strongly consider PA school so strongly, I'm feeling now that in the end and later down the line, med school may be more worth it. I don't want to regret not pursuing my full potential, if that makes sense.

 

[mistafab]

I think it really depends on what you want to do.

If you are looking to do PA vs IM or FM, then I think that is very different from deciding between PA vs Gen Surg or Rad Onc. In the former case, the PA/NP route sounds like a nice deal. In the latter, MD/DO all the way baby!

 

[aftomdhopeful]

I personally feel you should only go to medical school if you cannot imagine doing anything else. The opportunity cost both in time and money is just too high if you are not fully committed to it. If you want to make a lot of money, go into finance. You will make way more money a whole lot faster. If you do not care about money or being a healthcare leader as much, and just want to see patients, NP or PA makes sense. The loans are significantly less, you start making decent money faster, and you will probably enjoy a better quality of life. You can travel, buy a nice house, drive a nice car, and don't have to slave away for 7-9 years with $300K in loans before you start living the good life. Both are noble careers and play an important role in healthcare. It is not shameful or a failure to choose NP or PA over MD/DO. I've known some who have done it, and they are very happy with their choice.

Shadowing will definitely help you decide, but I think if you have even an inkling you would be happy as a PA, you should heavily consider it. If you turn out to hate it, you've only lost 2-3 years and will have great clinical experience for a med school app. On the other hand, if you get into medicine and learn you hate it, you've invested $300K and 7-9 years of your life. You are not going to want to go back, and you will be stuck in a stressful, miserable career the rest of your life.