Is research required?

[Telekinesis]

I hear all the time about research and how it can make a subpar applicant competitive. Well if someone has all the ECs except research would that make them less competitive?

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[Doctor246853]

I hear all the time about research and how it can make a subpar applicant competitive. Well if someone has all the ECs except research would that make them less competitive?

Inb4usesearchforum.
No. It is not needed but of course it will make ur app better just like anything else would. An app with community service (all other things equal) will look better than an app without it.

 

[mokhoras]

.

 

[Telekinesis]

Inb4usesearchforum.
No. It is not needed but of course it will make ur app better just like anything else would. An app with community service (all other things equal) will look better than an app without it.

Didn't find it when I searched. Thanks for the input though.

 

[Tapepsi]

Depending on the school it could possibly hurt an app.

 

[Telekinesis]

Depending on the school it could possibly hurt an app.

Hmm interesting. Any examples?

 

[Long Way to Go]

It is not required but highly recommended. You will be doing some research in medical school so its good to have some experience under your belt. A strong publication may even boost your chances considerably.

Source?

There are only a few schools that require a thesis in medical school (Duke, Yale, CCLCM are the three that I can immediately think of), and with the exception of a very limited number of residencies (eg, RadOnc), research is ranked last on the list of things residency program directors care about.

 

[bajastapler]

I don't think it's necessary, but it adds a layer of depth to your ECs.

Personally, the best thing research taught me is that it's not for me.

 

[mvenus929]

Hmm interesting. Any examples?

Generally, the higher ranked a school, the more they care about research.

But I attend a school in the Top 25, and I did absolutely no research prior to med school. I also got away with doing no research over the summer between first and second year, though I'm out of the norm... about 70% of my class chose to do research this summer.

Just have something else in your application to make up for it.

 

[ozzi22]

Hmm interesting. Any examples?

Top tier schools that are research oriented would definitely want to see some type of research under your belt. schools like Harvard, Hopkins, St. Louis , Upenn and so on.

 

[Telekinesis]

Generally, the higher ranked a school, the more they care about research.

But I attend a school in the Top 25, and I did absolutely no research prior to med school. I also got away with doing no research over the summer between first and second year, though I'm out of the norm... about 70% of my class chose to do research this summer.

Just have something else in your application to make up for it.

I was thinking good amounts of clinical volunteering, shadowing and leadership can make up for it.

 

[Telekinesis]

Top tier schools that are research oriented would definitely want to see some type of research under your belt. schools like Harvard, Hopkins, St. Louis , Upenn and so on.

I meant examples were research would have an adverse effect on your app.

 

[Tapepsi]

Top tier schools that are research oriented would definitely want to see some type of research under your belt. schools like Harvard, Hopkins, St. Louis , Upenn and so on.

^ This. When 90%+ of those accepted to a school have done research (97% if we're talking about schools like Harvard and Yale) you can make the assumption that having no research when applying there puts you at a disadvantage.

And I'm sorry I should've clarified I meant that having no research could possibly hurt your app.

 

[Telekinesis]

^ This. When 90%+ of those accepted to a school have done research (97% if we're talking about schools like Harvard and Yale) you can make the assumption that having no research when applying there puts you at a disadvantage.

And I'm sorry I should've clarified I meant that having no research could possibly hurt your app.

So it can be safe to say that the top 20 schools value research whereas schools 30 and down don't sweat it too much?

 

[Tapepsi]

So it can be safe to say that the top 20 schools value research whereas schools 30 and down don't sweat it too much?

Well that's not necessarily true either. Take my school for example: It's not a top 20 (and actually doesn't even participate in US News) and ~85% of those accepted had research. Furthermore, research while attending my school is required and during my interview they even admitted that they like to see applicants who have done some type of research.

So it really isn't an easy yes/no matter.

 

[Telekinesis]

Well that's not necessarily true either. Take my school for example: It's not a top 20 (and actually doesn't even participate in US News) and ~85% of those accepted had research. Furthermore, research while attending my school is required and during my interview they even admitted that they like to see applicants who have done some type of research.

So it really isn't an easy yes/no matter.

I'm just gonna play it safe and do some research.

 

[Tapepsi]

I'm just gonna play it safe and do some research.

It can only help your app.

 

[Doctor246853]

It can only help your app.

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

No, research is not required. It can help your application at some of the more research-oriented schools, but even then, I can't think of a school that has 100% of their matriculants with a research background (with the exception of CCLCM).

If you're interested in research, go for it. If not, focus on something else.

 

[Telekinesis]

No, research is not required. It can help your application at some of the more research-oriented schools, but even then, I can't think of a school that has 100% of their matriculants with a research background (with the exception of CCLCM).

If you're interested in research, go for it. If not, focus on something else.

What about schools like Keck, the SUNYs and Texas schools?

 

[sector9]

No, research is not required. It can help your application at some of the more research-oriented schools, but even then, I can't think of a school that has 100% of their matriculants with a research background (with the exception of CCLCM).

If you're interested in research, go for it. If not, focus on something else.

And Utah requires it, too.

The number of applicants listed in the MSAR who reported research is 95% for Utah, so obviously you should take the MSAR reported statistics with a grain of salt (they are taken from a survey after all, so it's up to the students to report their undergraduate experiences accurately). I consider any number above 90% or so to mean that the school requires research (or any of the other two categories, for that matter), even if they don't explicitly state it.

According to the MSAR, students accepted to medical school had medical community service listed most often, research next, and nonmedical community service last (among those three main options). It's up to you to decide what EC's to do, but I would say it's best to prioritize them in that order if you have the opportunity to do so.

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

What about schools like Keck, the SUNYs and Texas schools?

I don't think they require research as a prerequisite for matriculation either, but I don't have an MSAR on hand to confirm.

Let me ask you two questions: 1) Are you interested in research? and 2) If you're not interested in research, why do you want to apply to schools that really emphasize research/academia? Just curious.

 

[kemike]

I hear all the time about research and how it can make a subpar applicant competitive. Well if someone has all the ECs except research would that make them less competitive?

I think there was article that covered this on the main page. From what I remember, some schools do require it outright, some only suggest it, and some are very lax about it.

Hope that helps. It might be worth your time to read the article.

 

[BMEN]

What about schools like Keck, the SUNYs and Texas schools?

Dont know about Keck or SUNY but the Texas schools like research. It really ins't required, but some schools like UTSW and Baylor seem to like applicants that have it.

 

[Telekinesis]

I don't think they require research as a prerequisite for matriculation either, but I don't have an MSAR on hand to confirm.

Let me ask you two questions: 1) Are you interested in research? and 2) If you're not interested in research, why do you want to apply to schools that really emphasize research/academia? Just curious.

I am interested in research but at the same time I enjoy interaction with people. I am interested in being an academic physician.

 

[Application Doc]

Medical schools are looking for applicants who are engaged in their undergrad universities, jobs, and/or communities, and while research may demonstrate that, many other components of your application can, too. More than anything, admissions committees are seeking to interview applicants who are qualified to attend their school and interesting individuals with whom to speak. If you've done research, by all means, that should be one of the gems of your application. But if you haven't, don't worry, and don't let it stop you from applying to a school for which you are otherwise qualified. You will have many opportunities to conduct research in undergrad, with or without prior experience. My only research prior to medical school was in the humanities, and I am now a fourth year medical student on an admissions committee at a top program. Good luck, and try not to worry.

 

[kemike]

I am interested in research but at the same time I enjoy interaction with people. I am interested in being an academic physician.

Well, if you're interested in being an academic physician, an MD/PhD might be up your alley. In which case, for sure you would need research, at least 2 years worth to be competitive.

 

[Narmerguy]

Didn't find it when I searched. Thanks for the input though.

Seriously? Just to call you out:

Search: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/search.php?searchid=16712833

Results from just the first three pages:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=842175&highlight=research ("Trouble deciding on research")
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=792742&highlight=research ("do I need research experience")
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=827725&highlight=research ("research schools want to see research activity as most meaningful?)
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=827921&highlight=research ("Importance of research experience and how to include in app")
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=827470&highlight=research ("How much research for top schools")
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=819243&highlight=research ("Research vs volunteering vs clinical experience" )
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=810542&highlight=research ("Is research absolutely necessary as a premed?")
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=837792&highlight=research ("Would research help this late in the game")

There's no excuse for these kinds of threads. This has been answered and re-answered so many times I'm sick of it. This is the most basic search in the world and those threads have typically 15-30 replies to them, many of which with money insights from LizzyM or veterans...from the first three pages (which only goes back to April 26th--as in 3 months ago). Do you have any idea how many times these questions get asked? Spend 5 minutes of effort and don't pretend that you couldn't find this searching.

I don't know what we have to do to make people search. Maybe they don't know how to search. All I searched was the word "research" in a title. That's it. You don't have to click on every single result, read the title, use common sense. Is this what you're asking for? If you're not sure, hover over the link and it'll show you the first couple lines from the OP. If it doesn't sound like he's asking something that will provide information that you want, go to the next one. This takes 5 minutes!!! If I seem frustrated, it's because I'm spending 5-10 minutes of my time copying and pasting all these links, titles, and stuff for someone when I have absolutely no interest in this but the person who does could have done this and saved all of us a lot of time, effort, and space.

I was thinking good amounts of clinical volunteering, shadowing and leadership can make up for it.

If you want to go to an academic powerhouse (typically a research powerhouse) you'll have to show you can do something that they value. That means showing lots of research potential, teaching potential, or leadership potential. The best way is to tie in multiple things together (hitting two-three birds with one stone) so that you're significant leadership experience might be clinically and volunteer related. Or perhaps your teaching experience also shows leadership potential. You'll have to shine in something that these schools pride themselves on (shadowing probably won't cut it).

 

[Application Doc]

Two additional comments:
1) Many, if not most, academic physicians are not MD/PhDs. Don't be discouraged from aiming for academia if that's your interest.
2) If you are, in fact, interested in MD/PhD programs, research would be expected prior to interviewing.

 

[torshi]

Hmm interesting. Any examples?

top med schools for example. The higher ranked med schools are more research oriented so its ideal to have some research, but in general if your just worried about getting in, there are plenty of med schools that accept applicants without any research at all.

It all comes down to applying smart.

 

[deleted393595]

Depending on the school it could possibly hurt an app.

How so?

 

[Tapepsi]

How so?

I explained above how schools where 90%+ of the applicants have research (usually referred to as the top 20) are examples of when having no research would be a disadvantage. Why? Because those schools are clearly recruiting applicants with research backgrounds.

Take Harvard for example. 97% of those accepted had done research prior to matriculation. Technically you could fall under that small 3% but why risk it?

 

[deleted393595]

I explained above how schools where 90%+ of the applicants have research (usually referred to as the top 20) are examples of when having no research would be a disadvantage. Why? Because those schools are clearly recruiting applicants with research backgrounds.

Take Harvard for example. 97% of those accepted had done research prior to matriculation. Technically you could fall under that small 3% but why risk it?

My bad. I thought you meant that having research would hurt your application. I need to get some sleep...

 

[gettheleadout]

Two additional comments:
1) Many, if not most, academic physicians are not MD/PhDs. Don't be discouraged from aiming for academia if that's your interest.
2) If you are, in fact, interested in MD/PhD programs, research would be expected prior to interviewing.

Taking into account your qualifier of "if not," I highly doubt anywhere near the majority of academic physicians are mudphuds.

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

I think a lot of people only think of research when the word "academia" is tossed around. But that's not entirely true. You can be an academic even without being involved in any research activities. You can be academic physician who focuses solely on teaching and clinical duties, for example. I've encountered quite a few clinical professors who either don't do any research or very little clinical research, but are heavily involved in resident/med student teaching, administrative work, etc.

 

[gettheleadout]

I think a lot of people only think of research when the word "academia" is tossed around. But that's not entirely true. You can be an academic even without being involved in any research activities. You can be academic physician who focuses solely on teaching and clinical duties, for example. I've encountered quite a few clinical professors who either don't do any research or very little clinical research, but are heavily involved in resident/med student teaching, administrative work, etc.

Yes please.

(though I do want to have some clinical research going as well, maybe a 45/35/20 split for clinical/teaching/research?)

 

[vc7777]

OP. Listen, if research was required, then they would just make it a requirement, OK? My school (CCLCM) as Kaushik pointed out has made it an explicit pre-req. I, by the way, agree 100% with his posts in this thread.

Also, please please please, ignore the logical fallacy "If 90% of the people who are accepted have research, then I have only a 10% chance of getting in without research." This, is entirely erroneous. You are not at a disadvantage if you do not do research for even top schools. Why? Because "all other things being equal" you will have something else to show for your time that otherwise would have been spent on research, OK?

Yes, try out a small project if you are curious about research. Yes, continue with research if you love it. Please don't waste time doing research for your application. Go do something you are passionate about instead. You say you are interested in academic medicine which (as correctly pointed out) can be teaching. Why not get a gig as a mentor and/or teaching people? I assert people who are passionate and productive with their time a MUCH better candidates.

Good luck OP