Is St. James a legit med school?

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DoctorNations

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I wanted to know if anyone has heard anything good or bad about St. James School of Medicine? I am considering applying, but I am unsure. I live in New Jersey, but I know that they don't have full accredation as of yet. Should I risk it and just apply? I did really bad on my MCAT and my gpa is a 3.0, so I don't know what school would accept me. Seems like this one might, but before I apply, I wanted to know anyone's opinion.

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The fact that it is:

1) In the Caribbean (do not let the Chicago headquarters fool you)
2) Not considered accredited in a few states

... is worrisome. I would advise against it.
 
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According to Wiki: "Students complete their Basic Science education in one of the Caribbean campuses in four semesters and upon successful completion, students complete a clinical preparatory semester in Chicago, AICM (Advance Introduction to Clinical Medicine) semester, followed by five clinical semesters in affiliated hospitals in the United States. After completing the AICM semester, students take the USMLE Step 1 exam, and then continue on in clinical clerkships at teaching hospitals throughout the United States. Upon completion of the curriculum, similar to that of US medical schools, students must pass the USMLE Step 2 CS and USMLE Step 2 CK, prior to beginning their residency program."

I don't know about that :/ and yes I know I just referenced wiki.
 
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According to Wiki: "Students complete their Basic Science education in one of the Caribbean campuses in four semesters and upon successful completion, students complete a clinical preparatory semester in Chicago, AICM (Advance Introduction to Clinical Medicine) semester, followed by five clinical semesters in affiliated hospitals in the United States. After completing the AICM semester, students take the USMLE Step 1 exam, and then continue on in clinical clerkships at teaching hospitals throughout the United States. Upon completion of the curriculum, similar to that of US medical schools, students must pass the USMLE Step 2 CS and USMLE Step 2 CK, prior to beginning their residency program."

I don't know about that :/ and yes I know I just referenced wiki.

that's pretty much the setup for all the Caribbean schools. two years in the islands, followed by rotations at US hospitals.

OP, i tend to think that people who aren't able to gain acceptance to one of the big four Carib schools (SGU, Saba, Ross, and AUC) are probably wasting their time and money. you might very well be wasting your time and money even if you are able to get into one of these schools.

think of it this way: if your study skills at the moment are such that you are making Bs in undergrad science classes and aren't able to get a 23 or so on the MCAT, then you probably aren't ready for medical school no matter where you go. work harder at preparing yourself, otherwise you could be in for a world of hurt taking the easy route by going to a weaker offshore school like St. James.
 
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If you must attend a caribbean med school, attend the big 4(ross, aua,sgu,saba) as they are the only ones that are recognized by the 50
 
I agree with the above. If you did very poorly on the MCAT and only have a 3.0, you might want to consider doing a masters program or something along those lines. I'm not sure what your major was that you earned a 3.0. Is your science GPA lower/higher than this? You might not be ready for medical school altogether.
 
The fact that you have to ask if the school is legit should give you the answer you're looking for!
 
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I'll go as far as to say don't ever go to a Caribbean school. Unless you've done an SMP and underperformed, there is nothing* that will forever bar you from attending a US school, if you're willing to put in the time and effort, even over several years, to fix whatever is wrong.

*Other than felonies, lying on your application, etc...
 
Hey, OP, notice how all the people giving you advice are "pre-med"?

Ask someone's opinion that matters...like residency directors.

All the gunners are going to tell you to give up...one less person to compete with. (see every post above this one). :idea:

I don't think they're telling the OP to give up but rather that the OP is better off doing something to improve their stats. Why apply and get rejected when you KNOW you are a weak applicant? I guess you can go ahead and do that and see "if you get in anywhere".. but why not take a year or two off and strength your weak spots and then try?
 
The fact that you have to ask if the school is legit should give you the answer you're looking for!

I would say St. James is about as legitimate as this:
free_candy.jpg
 
Hey, OP, notice how all the people giving you advice are "pre-med"?

Ask someone's opinion that matters...like residency directors.

All the gunners are going to tell you to give up...one less person to compete with. (see every post above this one). :idea:

As someone who is not competing with the OP... I would agree with this:

The fact that it is:

1) In the Caribbean (do not let the Chicago headquarters fool you)
2) Not considered accredited in a few states

... is worrisome. I would advise against it.

As another poster said, try taking some time to make sure you're ready for med school. Stats never tell the whole picture, but it's a good idea to make sure your studying techniques/etc are working. I'm not sure what year you are, but if you can show an upward trend and ace a post-bacc (if you do one), your app will be much more solid. Good luck!
 
The saddest thing that could happen to you is you spend $100000s and 4 years of your life at a med school that isn't accredited, and find out you cant do anything with your degree... is it really worth the risk? If youre going to go the unconventional route, at least go to a school thats ACCREDITED. You have to ask, why isn't it accredited?
 
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Hey, OP, notice how all the people giving you advice are "pre-med"?

Ask someone's opinion that matters...like residency directors.

All the gunners are going to tell you to give up...one less person to compete with. (see every post above this one). :idea:

(notes Mornhavon's current status as pre-med... :ninja: )
 
Hey, OP, notice how all the people giving you advice are "pre-med"?

Ask someone's opinion that matters...like residency directors.

All the gunners are going to tell you to give up...one less person to compete with. (see every post above this one). :idea:

How is advising someone not to apply to a school that none of the premeds on here are going to apply to and instead wait and apply to US allo schools (which the premeds here are also going to apply to) gunning? It seems to me like the posters on here are seeking MORE, not less competition, else they'd tell the OP to go to St James...

It was cute that you tried to read more into other people's posts, but your logic makes zero sense. It's not all a conspiracy here, dude.
 
Hey, OP, notice how all the people giving you advice are "pre-med"?

Ask someone's opinion that matters...like residency directors.

All the gunners are going to tell you to give up...one less person to compete with. (see every post above this one). :idea:

No offense, but you're an idiot. And honestly, residency directors do care ... A LOT ... about people that come out of the Carib schools and I'm talking about the big 4. Scoring a 250 just barely qualifies you to get an IM residency spot coming out of the Carib, while a 250 from any US school almost guarantees you a spot in any field (though maybe not derm, plastics or rads in the best programs). That being said, there are always exceptions but you pretty much have to be Jesus incarnate to do it. If it's this hard to come from the well known Carib schools, imagine the **** you'll have to deal with coming out of no name St. James.
 
Hey, OP, notice how all the people giving you advice are "pre-med"?

Ask someone's opinion that matters...like residency directors.

All the gunners are going to tell you to give up...one less person to compete with. (see every post above this one). :idea:

just go to the general residency section of this forum, and do a search. Lots of residents on committees, PDs, or people who frequently interact with PDs have answered this question on these forums many times. IMGs face huge obstacles, caribbean schools have huge attrition rates, and a graduate needs to be BETTER than his US counterpart just to be equally competitive for a position. In the next few years, with rapid MD/DO expansion, it's only looking worse for foreign graduates, and now may be the worst time to go abroad. Also, the Carib USMLE scores are taken less seriously by some PDs, based on the fact that they often take 6-12 months to study compared with the 1-2 month time frame of a US student.

Plus, really your idea about gunners would work the opposite way. A true gunner would want the poor kid to go to the Carib. Based on the high attrition rates, it's one less person to compete with in the states. If the student in question actually did a SMP and retook the MCAT, well, then that's one more competitive applicant a gunner needs to compete with for a US spot.
 
Hey, OP, notice how all the people giving you advice are "pre-med"?

Ask someone's opinion that matters...like residency directors.

All the gunners are going to tell you to give up...one less person to compete with. (see every post above this one). :idea:

Actually I think the gunner move is to encourage people to go to the Caribbean. And yeah, raw data supports nearly all of what other posters have said, and surveys of residency program directors are available for reference as well.
 
Actually I think the gunner move is to encourage people to go to the Caribbean....

Agreed. Nobody in pre-allo is overly concerned about competition to get into St James, and statistically folks graduating from Caribbean programs outside of the top 3 aren't exactly pushing US allo seniors out of residency matches.

OP, I would caution that you only take this route as a hail mary if there is no way to rehabilitate your credentials to the point that you can try higher yield options. Bear in mind that as the number of US seniors increases (supposedly going to start this year) while residency slots are held largely constant, there is going to be a big crunch felt by a lot of offshore schools. Also bear in mind that even after high attrition, the percentage of offshore folks who land US residency slots has historically been fewer than 50%.
 
Agreed. Nobody in pre-allo is overly concerned about competition to get into St James, and statistically folks graduating from Caribbean programs outside of the top 3 aren't exactly pushing US allo seniors out of residency matches.

OP, I would caution that you only take this route as a hail mary if there is no way to rehabilitate your credentials to the point that you can try higher yield options. Bear in mind that as the number of US seniors increases (supposedly going to start this year) while residency slots are held largely constant, there is going to be a big crunch felt by a lot of offshore schools. Also bear in mind that even after high attrition, the percentage of offshore folks who land US residency slots has historically been fewer than 50%.
From what I read, that number is 90% or more for the top 4 Caribbean schools.

That being said, OP, take an MCAT prep course and retake the MCAT, get a good score, and try for a top 4 Caribbean school. If your science GPA is the pits, then do some kind of postbac to get that up.

Don't count on a crappy Carribean med school to get you anywhere in life.
 
From what I read, that number is 90% or more for the top 4 Caribbean schools.

That being said, OP, take an MCAT prep course and retake the MCAT, get a good score, and try for a top 4 Caribbean school. If your science GPA is the pits, then do some kind of postbac to get that up.

Don't count on a crappy Carribean med school to get you anywhere in life.

it's possible that statement is true but with a major asterisk.

From day 1 to residency, even at SGU for example, only 60-70% of incoming students each year will match in residency. Some fail out initially, some are required to repeat a year, and some do not pass the internal test required to sit in for the USMLE or the minimum GPA requirement SGU sets forth.

If the initial class size is 1000, a 90% match rate (if that's true), isn't really all that impressive if it's 90% of 650 students.
 
Some fail out initially, some are required to repeat a year, and some do not pass the internal test required to sit in for the USMLE...


Isn't this true for US schools as well? :smuggrin:
 
Isn't this true for US schools as well? :smuggrin:

Not near the same degree as in the US MD/DO programs. In my entering med school class, approximately 5 students got held back 1 year, and all 5 went on to do a residency in their field of choice (a couple even got their top choice with a failed year).

Of 140 entering med students, 136 graduated within 5 years (5 needed an extra year). 1 female med student married and ran off with "the man of her dreams". 1 female med student died of cancer. 1 female was in the MD/PhD track and decided she only enjoyed research - dropping into only PhD track. 1 male quit in the first week of medical school for unknown reasons.

Therefore 100% of my entering US MD class that didn't choose to drop out on their own will (or pass away abruptly) graduated in 5 years and secured a residency. Students strong enough to get into US MD/DO and want to graduate usually have no trouble with internal tests, USMLE, etc.
 
From what I read, that number is 90% or more for the top 4 Caribbean schools.
*snip

yes, but: 1) your competitiveness is greatly reduced in the Match coming from one of these schools. it's far more difficult to match in anything even mildly competitive if you come out of the Caribbean. Even a big four school.

2) SGU and the rest count matches into prelim years as folks having "matched." while technically that's true (and to be fair, US allo schools do the same thing), and you will be able to sit for Step 3 and get a medical license with just an intern year, it's a non-starter so far as having a career goes. these people may as well not even have matched from that perspective; they still need to reapply the following year and get into a categorical track program. the proportion of people on these Carib match lists that are going into prelim-only slots without an advanced position waiting for them on the other side is much higher than that at US schools.

snip*
Therefore 100% of my entering US MD class that didn't choose to drop out on their own will (or pass away abruptly) graduated in 5 years and secured a residency. Students strong enough to get into US MD/DO and want to graduate usually have no trouble with internal tests, USMLE, etc.

ok, but let's not make this a rosier picture than it actually is.

the actual proportion of those entering US allo schools that go on to graduate and successfully gain a GME year is probably in the low 90s%. how many of the remainder didn't make it because of personal reasons, i couldn't say.

there's also the fact that the aspirations of those who were held back were likely curtailed. matching into your first choice residency with a failed year often entails a slightly different definition of success.

edit: oops. it's essentially 95%, but i can't find the link. most of the 5% are going to be people leaving for personal reasons.
 
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ok, but let's not make this a rosier picture than it actually is.

the actual proportion of those entering US allo schools that go on to graduate and successfully gain a GME year is probably in the low 90s%. how many of the remainder didn't make it because of personal reasons, i couldn't say.

there's also the fact that the aspirations of those who were held back were likely curtailed. matching into your first choice residency with a failed year often entails a slightly different definition of success.

I'm not sure what area of the country you are in but the percentage of US MD applicants applying for a GME year will get one 99.5+% of the time in the south (maybe not in their top choice field though).

Medical schools in TX (and other public medical schools) receive funding from the state based on the number of current medical students enrolled. If med students drop out, medical schools lose funding. Therefore it is in the school's best interest to only accept top candidates and then do everything possible to see them succeed. My medical school hasn't had anyone fail out in years, but there have been drop-outs for personal reasons. Students with academic trouble are held back, but they are given 6 years to pass 4. Not that difficult.

I agree that with a failed year you have to apply to a less competitive field. A friend of mine failed 1 year and even pre-matched into her first choice program (her top choice even before submitting applications), but yes it was in a primary care field.

As long as you are ok with primary care, a US MD grad will get a GME year 99.99999% of the time if they apply broadly.
 
I'm not sure what area of the country you are in but the percentage of US MD applicants applying for a GME year will get one 99.5+% of the time in the south (maybe not in their top choice field though).

Medical schools in TX (and other public medical schools) receive funding from the state based on the number of current medical students enrolled. If med students drop out, medical schools lose funding. Therefore it is in the school's best interest to only accept top candidates and then do everything possible to see them succeed. My medical school hasn't had anyone fail out in years, but there have been drop-outs for personal reasons. Students with academic trouble are held back, but they are given 6 years to pass 4. Not that difficult.

I agree that with a failed year you have to apply to a less competitive field. A friend of mine failed 1 year and even pre-matched into her first choice program (her top choice even before submitting applications), but yes it was in a primary care field.

As long as you are ok with primary care, a US MD grad will get a GME year 99.99999% of the time if they apply broadly.

Mea culpa. i was only looking at the NRMP match data and hadn't thought about the other matches that people go into.

i do remember reading that the ultimate attrition rate from US med schools is ~95%, but not the academic attrition rate. I do know that the USMLE pass rate with retakes is ~99% (ie not 100%)

my point is that there are some people who don't make it, even though they wanted very badly to. and that even if you do make it, failing a year or a Step definitely hurts. but yeah, low 90s as i was saying is looking overly pessimistic. sorry.
 
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yes, but: 1) your competitiveness is greatly reduced in the Match coming from one of these schools. it's far more difficult to match in anything even mildly competitive if you come out of the Caribbean. Even a big four school.
I know that, but if the goal is something like internal medicine, shouldn't a graduate of SGU or Ross get matched at such a residency without much trouble?
 
Hey, OP, notice how all the people giving you advice are "pre-med"?

Ask someone's opinion that matters...like residency directors.

All the gunners are going to tell you to give up...one less person to compete with. (see every post above this one). :idea:

I am an academic physician and intimately involved with one of our residency programs.

If you go a Caribbean school, you put yourself at a substantial disadvantage from the beginning. There is substantial pressure to avoid matching FMGs. Additionally, St James is not on the California Approved list. That puts you at additional disadvantage. Avoid at all costs.
 
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I am an academic physician and intimately involved with one of our residency programs.

If you go a Caribbean school, you put yourself at a substantial disadvantage from the beginning. There is substantial pressure to avoid matching FMGs. Additionally, St James is not on the California Approved list. That puts you at additional disadvantage. Avoid at all costs.

just curious...do DO students face bias trying to match at your program?
 
I am an academic physician and intimately involved with one of our residency programs.

If you go a Caribbean school, you put yourself at a substantial disadvantage from the beginning. There is substantial pressure to avoid matching FMGs. Additionally, St James is not on the California Approved list. That puts you at additional disadvantage. Avoid at all costs.

Agreed. Its not really politically correct to talk about, but having many FMG's actually turns off a lot of US MD students for some reason. This causes a downward spiral toward more and more FMG's. Therefore many programs will take make US MD's over FMG's regardless of scores/grades.
 
Mea culpa. i was only looking at the NRMP match data and hadn't thought about the other matches that people go into.

i do remember reading that the ultimate attrition rate from US med schools is ~95%, but not the academic attrition rate. I do know that the USMLE pass rate with retakes is ~99% (ie not 100%)

my point is that there are some people who don't make it, even though they wanted very badly to. and that even if you do make it, failing a year or a Step definitely hurts. but yeah, low 90s as i was saying is looking overly pessimistic. sorry.

The AMSA magazine a few years back published that there was approximately 5% attrition at US allo medical schools and of that 1.5% was due to academic reasons. They didn't include being held back in their attrition figures, but I would suggest that its another couple of percent. The match rate for US allo seniors has historically been about 93%. Another bunch will land a spot in the scramble and many US seniors who come up short in the match will do a research year or otherwise defer graduation and try their luck in a subsequent year, so I'd be surprised if the total percentage of graduating US allo med school seniors who end up in residency isn't over 98%.

By contrast, at some caribbean schools, you might see statistics like 30% of the entering class gets weeded out along the way for academic reasons, another 10% get held up by internal exams required before they can sit for the Step exams or start rotations, and of the remainder only about 70% end up with a bona fide residency slot. So it's not a 70% success rate, it's really a 70% of 60%, or a 40% success rate, as compared to the US allo's 90+, even at some of the better offshore programs. That's better than a zero percentage chance, so if you have no other shot at being a doctor, that still might be enough to run with. But few are in such a deep hole that they can't at least somewhat salvage things. And more than a few folks who are in a rush to get to med school rather than fix things are precisely the folks who won't prevail in such paths.
 
The AMSA magazine a few years back published that there was approximately 5% attrition at US allo medical schools and of that 1.5% was due to academic reasons. They didn't include being held back in their attrition figures, but I would suggest that its another couple of percent. The match rate for US allo seniors has historically been about 93%. Another bunch will land a spot in the scramble and many US seniors who come up short in the match will do a research year or otherwise defer graduation and try their luck in a subsequent year, so I'd be surprised if the total percentage of graduating US allo med school seniors who end up in residency isn't over 98%.

By contrast, at some caribbean schools, you might see statistics like 30% of the entering class gets weeded out along the way for academic reasons, another 10% get held up by internal exams required before they can sit for the Step exams or start rotations, and of the remainder only about 70% end up with a bona fide residency slot. So it's not a 70% success rate, it's really a 70% of 60%, or a 40% success rate, as compared to the US allo's 90+, even at some of the better offshore programs. That's better than a zero percentage chance, so if you have no other shot at being a doctor, that still might be enough to run with. But few are in such a deep hole that they can't at least somewhat salvage things. And more than a few folks who are in a rush to get to med school rather than fix things are precisely the folks who won't prevail in such paths.

:thumbup:

Hit the nail on the head on that one Law2Doc. There is also the fact that one is in a class of 500 (usually) and you are not getting the attention needed to succeed in a Caribbean school. This is very different from the usual 50-120 student acceptance at a U.S. medical school where you do have more attention. There is also the fact that one needs to do core rotations back in the U.S. Just because you come back to the U.S. for core rotations does not mean the struggle is over yet. One needs to get approval to get into those rotations (very competitive considering they only have a limited amount of slots because they are usually taken by U.S. medical students). All the core rotations in some teaching hospital may not be green book certified. This is just one of many things one needs to worry about as a Caribbean school. Otherwise, one will not get into a U.S. residency.
 
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I agree with the above. If you did very poorly on the MCAT and only have a 3.0, you might want to consider doing a masters program or something along those lines. I'm not sure what your major was that you earned a 3.0. Is your science GPA lower/higher than this? You might not be ready for medical school altogether.

Not sure about the "ready for medical school" comment. It depends on his/her major and a self assessment of his/her work ethic and school. There are some people in engineering and physics here who have less than a 3.0 and I'm sure they could coast through medical school.
 
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Not sure about the "ready for medical school" comment. It depends on his/her major and a self assessment of his/her work ethic and school. There are some people in engineering and physics here who have less than a 3.0 and I'm sure they could coast through medical school.

Oh really? If someone did poorly on the MCAT and also has a sub 3.0 GPA, chances are you're NOT ready for med school regardless of your major. No major is that hard that your GPA should tank that much. It all translates to work ethic, if you're stats are that low, you're probably not gonna survive med school where work ethic is quite key to success.
 
Oh really? If someone did poorly on the MCAT and also has a sub 3.0 GPA, chances are you're NOT ready for med school regardless of your major. No major is that hard that your GPA should tank that much. It all translates to work ethic, if you're stats are that low, you're probably not gonna survive med school where work ethic is quite key to success.

Ahh. Didn't see the MCAT part. I agree with this if the OP did poorly on the MCAT too.

There are schools with tough majors and pretty heavy grade deflation though...Just sayin.
 
Ahh. Didn't see the MCAT part. I agree with this if the OP did poorly on the MCAT too.

There are schools with tough majors and pretty heavy grade deflation though...Just sayin.

Yes, I know, I went to one of those schools. People who have good work ethics will be able to get above a 3.0 REGARDLESS of where they go and what their major is (or they may be too stupid to change majors). Adcoms know which schools these are and probably do take that somewhat into consideration. But it doesn't change the fact that a low GPA usually means your work ethic sucks and that you're probably not gonna be able to handle the workload in med school. Is that always the case? Probably not, but more often than not that is true. Just sayin.
 
People who have good work ethics will be able to get above a 3.0 REGARDLESS of where they go and what their major is (or they may be too stupid to change majors)

Work ethic isn't always funneled into grades. People with kids, full time jobs, lots of distractions, etc. could find themselves in a difficult spot in terms of grades but that doesn't necessarily mean they won't succeed in medical school.

At my UG, there is one student who works insanely hard but just doesn't pull good grades. I would be willing to bet she could make it through medical school (not necessarily with amazing marks though) and become a great physician.

Low grades and low MCAT are good indicators that one should reevaluate their path. But, low grades alone in my opinion don't mean that someone won't make it through training.
 
Yes, I know, I went to one of those schools. People who have good work ethics will be able to get above a 3.0 REGARDLESS of where they go and what their major is (or they may be too stupid to change majors). Adcoms know which schools these are and probably do take that somewhat into consideration. But it doesn't change the fact that a low GPA usually means your work ethic sucks and that you're probably not gonna be able to handle the workload in med school. Is that always the case? Probably not, but more often than not that is true. Just sayin.

definitely not true. My buddy at an ivy league had like a 3.0 in engineering, now works at google, and had a way stronger work ethic/intellect than me, despite me having a much higher gpa. And adcoms generally dont' really take into account things like tougher major, tougher schools...
 
definitely not true. My buddy at an ivy league had like a 3.0 in engineering, now works at google, and had a way stronger work ethic/intellect than me, despite me having a much higher gpa. And adcoms generally dont' really take into account things like tougher major, tougher schools...

That's not true, there's a LizzyM quote somewhere that begs to differ but I can't remember where. I'm not saying that it's a lot but it is taken into account. Furthermore, your anecdotal stories of 2 aren't the norms. Like I said in my previous post, there are exceptions but the norm is if you have a low undergrad GPA/MCAT you're going to have a more difficult time getting through the basic science years.
 
That's not true, there's a LizzyM quote somewhere that begs to differ but I can't remember where. I'm not saying that it's a lot but it is taken into account. Furthermore, your anecdotal stories of 2 aren't the norms. Like I said in my previous post, there are exceptions but the norm is if you have a low undergrad GPA/MCAT you're going to have a more difficult time getting through the basic science years.


I agree with you about the MCAT score being a good predictor of med school success, but not the GPA part. There's just way to many variables like grade deflation/inflation at an undergrad school, major, or whether someone slipped through the cracks and only took classes with "easy professors". This makes it hard to generalize about whether a low GPA is associated with low work ethic, and whether a high GPA means strong work ethic. That's why we need the MCAT so much, since there is so much variation between a 3.5 at school A versus B. If someone has a 3.0/34 mcat majoring in bme or physics, I don't think there's any reason to doubt whether they could handle medical school. In that case, it's not because of slacking off/laziness that caused a low gpa

It's not just a matter of n=2 and my anecdotal stories. Majors like physics, engineering and bme are often extremely hard to do well in, and a 3.0-3.2 is considered competitive for many jobs in those fields. A majority of people with difficult majors like physics who have a 3.0-3.2 would not struggle in med school (assuming they had a good mcat).
 
I agree with you about the MCAT score being a good predictor of med school success, but not the GPA part. There's just way to many variables like grade deflation/inflation at an undergrad school, major, or whether someone slipped through the cracks and only took classes with "easy professors". This makes it hard to generalize about whether a low GPA is associated with low work ethic, and whether a high GPA means strong work ethic. That's why we need the MCAT so much, since there is so much variation between a 3.5 at school A versus B. If someone has a 3.0/34 mcat majoring in bme or physics, I don't think there's any reason to doubt whether they could handle medical school. In that case, it's not because of slacking off/laziness that caused a low gpa

It's not just a matter of n=2 and my anecdotal stories. Majors like physics, engineering and bme are often extremely hard to do well in, and a 3.0-3.2 is considered competitive for many jobs in those fields. A majority of people with difficult majors like physics who have a 3.0-3.2 would not struggle in med school (assuming they had a good mcat).

I am going to disagree on the MCAT part as well (although studies have shown a correlation between USMLE and MCAT scores). I am applying for one of the disadvantaged programs for the medical school at my home state (which gives direct admission to med school if one passes). The students from this program have had a 100% USMLE first time pass rate in the last 6 years. I have looked at the studentdoctor and MDapplicant sites. There were students who were accepted to this program a few years back with MCAT scores in the mid 20's. So I am assuming they did pass the USMLE and on their first try.

What you have said about the GPA is true as well Patel2. There are classes where professors make it extremely hard to get an A. Even if the work ethic is there, there will always be other students who have both work ethic and study methods (far superior than others in the class). Those are the people who get the A and the curve is set toward them. So the hard working people suffer because of this. There will always be cases where hard work will not always triumph. This is why I say know the course you go into and the professor as well before you do it (help me a great deal especially during my upper division years).

Having the work ethic is important and one needs this for any course. However, courses vary and one should choose a course where the grading is fair and pulls out your full potential.
 
If St James is your only choice, pick a different career. I'm not trying to be cute. It's a bad move.
 
I wanted to know if anyone has heard anything good or bad about St. James School of Medicine? I am considering applying, but I am unsure. I live in New Jersey, but I know that they don't have full accredation as of yet. Should I risk it and just apply? I did really bad on my MCAT and my gpa is a 3.0, so I don't know what school would accept me. Seems like this one might, but before I apply, I wanted to know anyone's opinion.

Thank You,
:)
i know it's late but i'm also to applying to this school. Med school in itself is difficult but it can be done. in reality it should matter what school you get your degree from; what matters is that your interested in medical school and that's a good thing. alot of doctoors have there 4 year degree in something like english and math or something that's not related to the medical field, but they did what they had to do in order to acheive their goals. no one on this forum has said anything positive in your direction. you can go to yale and be the worst doctor in your community, but you can go to a regular medical school like brown or st. james and be a wonderful doctor. my point is your decussion is, it entirely on you. Whatever school it is you just have to make the best of it. and st james is listed in the WHO listing so that great thing.
 
You put St. James as a regular medical school in the same sentence as Brown? :confused:
 
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