Is There Hope For Me?

[LessthanHopeful]

Having read hundreds of forums just like the one I wish to initiate, I find myself extremely hesitant to continue. The desire for palpable, realistic answers (seasoned with a bit of hope...hopefully) overcomes this hesitance, however.

I am 26 years old, I have a Master's degree in Theology. This degree is an online degree, featuring a cGPA of 2.8 and an applied GPA of 3.6. I received three "F's" due to a computer virus. During my undergraduate years (10 years ago!), I failed a course, never mind why. I have not fulfilled any of the science or math prerequisites for medical school.

With my extremely low and embarrassing GPA, even if I were to pursue another undergraduate degree, it would take me more than 6 years of perfect grades in order to raise my GPA to a barely competitive level. I don't know what hope there is left for me.

I suppose my question is a very generic one: what are my chances? While I do admit to fearing the failure that follows four years of grueling study more than an early surrender, I cannot help but hope and pray that there is a chance that this desire of everything that's in me can be fulfilled.

I have worked as a laboratory assistant in a hospital for three years and am applying for positions as an EMT. I have not volunteered or shadowed, but am seeking out opportunities to do so.

What are your recommendations? What can I do to--please pardon me if I sound Disney-esque--make my dream come true?

Will the fact that my classes were online change anything? Will the fact that I have still to take CHEM, BIO, etc classes?
Also, how do I balance work, school volunteering, and research? I feel so lost and despondent! I don't want to hear about alternative goals, but at the same...I do want to know the truth.

Is this dream of medical school just a pipe dream?

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[NightGod]

Having read hundreds of forums just like the one I wish to initiate, I find myself extremely hesitant to continue. The desire for palpable, realistic answers (seasoned with a bit of hope...hopefully) overcomes this hesitance, however.

I am 26 years old, I have a Master's degree in Theology. This degree is an online degree, featuring a cGPA of 2.8 and an applied GPA of 3.6. I received three "F's" due to a computer virus. During my undergraduate years (10 years ago!). I have not fulfilled any of the science or math prerequisites for medical school.

With my extremely low and embarrassing GPA, even if I were to pursue another undergraduate degree, it would take me more than 6 years of perfect grades in order to raise my GPA to a barely competitive level.

I suppose my question is a very generic one: what are my chances? While I do admit to fearing the failure that follows four years of grueling study more than an early surrender, I cannot help but hope and pray that there is a chance that this desire of everything that's in me can be fulfilled.

I have worked as a laboratory assistant in a hospital for three years and am applying for positions as an EMT. I have not volunteered or shadowed, but am seeking out opportunities to do so.

What are your recommendations? What can I do to--please pardon me if I sound Disney-esque--make my dream come true?

Will the fact that my classes were online change anything? Will the fact that I have still to take CHEM, BIO, etc classes?
Also, how do I balance work, school volunteering, and research? I feel so lost and despondent! I don't want to hear about alternative goals, but at the same...I do want to know the truth.

Is this dream of medical school just a pipe dream?

With only three bad classes and an otherwise strong GPA, grade replacement through a DO school would be the easy fix. Also, it is not uncommon for non-trads to come back after 10 years and completely rock the remaining classes and for adcoms to overlook those earlier horrible grades as a result.

What on-line school did you get those grades in (and how did a virus cause it?) If it's someplace shady like University of Phoenix, you've got an even stronger case for "that was the past, this is me today".

As for balancing everything, in the end, it becomes of matter of "you either do or you don't". Time management is a critical skill. Personally, I'm not likely to have any long term research when I apply-it's just not practical with my real life. I had an opportunity to do some research on alternative energy in my Chem 2 class, but that's about all I'll probably have to put on my application. But I've got solid clinical and non-clinical experiences in the works and have been making sure I kick ass on my classes. In the end, I suppose that's going to have to be enough

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

I'm confused. You're 26. 10 yrs ago you were 16, and usually at 16 you're a sophmore/junior in HS, not college. You said you have an online masters, how long ago was that? Additionally, you said you had a 2.8, what school let you get an MA/MS with less than a 3.0? It is usually a requirement that if you failed three classes, you would not have been making satisfactory progress in the program, and at a minimum would have to retake them to gain the degree. Before I will discuss your chances, I'd like to hear the explanation for some of what I've posted...

 

[LessthanHopeful]

I'm confused. You're 26. 10 yrs ago you were 16, and usually at 16 you're a sophmore/junior in HS, not college. You said you have an online masters, how long ago was that? Additionally, you said you had a 2.8, what school let you get an MA/MS with less than a 3.0? It is usually a requirement that if you failed three classes, you would not have been making satisfactory progress in the program, and at a minimum would have to retake them to gain the degree. Before I will discuss your chances, I'd like to hear the explanation for some of what I've posted...

I graduated from high school two years early and began my studies at a community college. My parents separated during my second year, causing me to put my education on hold. During that time, I knew I wanted to go into the medical field, but had no confidence or drive, or whatever else teenagers lack.
I graduated with an MA at Liberty University in Virginia. Although I re-took the classes in which I received failing grades and obtained A's, those poor grades are still on my record. That's why the applied GPA is so much higher than the cumulative GPA. I must admit, I do not know why or how I was allowed to continue school, but I graduated from this online degree last fall.

The virus itself did not cause the bad grade. I had three major papers due and the computer I was working on needed the disc drive repaired (it didn't read flash drives or cd/dvd's; i know this sounds far-fetched, but it is absolutely true. Stay away from hp's!). Long story short, the computer crashed, taking my work with it and the professors would not grant me an extension.
I hope this explains. I am sorry if I caused confusion by being either too vague or not organized enough. Thank you for taking the time to ask these questions.

 

[LessthanHopeful]

With only three bad classes and an otherwise strong GPA, grade replacement through a DO school would be the easy fix. Also, it is not uncommon for non-trads to come back after 10 years and completely rock the remaining classes and for adcoms to overlook those earlier horrible grades as a result.

What on-line school did you get those grades in (and how did a virus cause it?) If it's someplace shady like University of Phoenix, you've got an even stronger case for "that was the past, this is me today".

As for balancing everything, in the end, it becomes of matter of "you either do or you don't". Time management is a critical skill. Personally, I'm not likely to have any long term research when I apply-it's just not practical with my real life. I had an opportunity to do some research on alternative energy in my Chem 2 class, but that's about all I'll probably have to put on my application. But I've got solid clinical and non-clinical experiences in the works and have been making sure I kick ass on my classes. In the end, I suppose that's going to have to be enough

I received the bad grades via the distance learning program at Liberty University (the baptist university in VA). I'm not extremely computer savvy and assumed that, even though I couldn't back up files on the computer I was using (it didn't read flash drives or cd/dvd's; don't ask me why, but I have the computer in the closet if you want to see for yourself), I'd be all right. I had three major papers due (worth 40% of the grade) when the computer crashed (or whatever they do when everything goes away). My professors would not grant me an extension, so I was obliged to retake the classes.

I hope for your sake and mine that doing our best after a "sordid academic past" (at least in my case), IS enough. Thanks much for the encouragement!

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

Thank you for the clarification. Now I'll say what I have to say. I think you have a chance, I think that you should talk to the adcoms of schools you'd most like to attend and ask them for advice on what approach is best...

 

[PTWOB02]

With my extremely low and embarrassing GPA, even if I were to pursue another undergraduate degree, it would take me more than 6 years of perfect grades in order to raise my GPA to a barely competitive level. I suppose my question is a very generic one: what are my chances?

Will the fact that my classes were online change anything? Will the fact that I have still to take CHEM, BIO, etc classes?

Also, how do I balance work, school volunteering, and research? I feel so lost and despondent! I don't want to hear about alternative goals, but at the same...I do want to know the truth.

Is this dream of medical school just a pipe dream?

I don't think your chances are as bad as you think. Tough, but not impossible. I mean, I have a similar situation as you, where my undergrad GPA is even worse than yours, taken 10 years ago. With a solid game plan and enough time, you can overcome those obstacles. I don't necessarily think you have to get a 2nd undergrad degree like you suggested, but you do need to rebuild your academic record in the next 2-3 years. You can sign up for a formal Post Bacc, or do it yourself Post Bacc, and strive to get all "A"s in those pre-req classes. The idea is to show Adcom that you have matured since your "younger" days and can handle rigorous academic work, hoping they will place less focus on your past grades and more on your Post Bacc grades.

I don't know if your degree will be perceived as less rigorous because it was taken online. I suppose it depends on the rank of your undergraduate school. And the fact that you still need to take Bio, Chem, and other pre-req classes, gives you a 2nd chance to redeem yourself.

As far as balancing everything, I don't know, that's your individual decision. I mean, I don't know your family situation, children, work, etc. But rest assured, I'm married and have a child and I'm taking full class schedule (12 credits) this Fall, so it definitely can be done. It's a matter of priorities, coordinating with your significant one, and how badly you want it, I suppose.

Given enough time and effort in the next 2-3 years, you can rebuild your GPA (somewhat) with Post Bacc classes, which will give you enough time to volunteer, shadow and do clinical work as well. Feel free to PM me with any specific questions if you want.

 

[ucsfstudents]

You have a chance. The real question is whether or not you want to do medicine. Make sure you've thought it through and shadowed a few MDs, and spoken to medical students, etc before you embark on this journey. It's a great field, but for such a big decision, you want to have an idea of what you're getting yourself into.

 

[NightGod]

I received the bad grades via the distance learning program at Liberty University (the baptist university in VA). I'm not extremely computer savvy and assumed that, even though I couldn't back up files on the computer I was using (it didn't read flash drives or cd/dvd's; don't ask me why, but I have the computer in the closet if you want to see for yourself), I'd be all right. I had three major papers due (worth 40% of the grade) when the computer crashed (or whatever they do when everything goes away). My professors would not grant me an extension, so I was obliged to retake the classes.

I hope for your sake and mine that doing our best after a "sordid academic past" (at least in my case), IS enough. Thanks much for the encouragement!

The not reading data issue isn't as uncommon as you seem to think (at least not 10 years ago). It's not COMMON, but it happened. I hope now you have better backup systems in place From what I can tell by a quick search, LU seems to be at least reasonably respected and is fully accredited, so there should be no issue with the acceptance of credits from there.

And I wish us both luck on the sordid past being made up for by a shining present. Have my share of black marks on my (decades old) transcript I'm currently working to overcome.

 

[isoquin]

I'm going to be a bit blunt here because I think you need some tough love right now. Given the history you've stated, you should not apply to medical school right now. Even if you had good reasons for every one of your blemishes, they're still big negatives, when med schools are looking for positives.

If you do want to get into medical school, what you need is a turning point: a time for you to say "ok I screwed up in the past, but now I'm going to prove how awesome I can be." If you want to go into medicine, that point must be today. It's not enough to simply say it though. You need to go do now, because again, med schools are looking for positive actions and accomplishments.

There are three main areas to work on: academics, research, and extracurriculars. For the academics, you need to enroll in a post-bac or Masters program focused on medicine, and you must succeed in them. I'm talking great GPAs without any blemishes. Sounds like a lot, but if you want to live your dream, the first step is pushing yourself academically for 2 years. If you can't accomplish that, you can believe that you won't be able to push yourself enough in med school to make it to the finish line. That is precisely what med schools are looking for too: proof that you can push academically.

Either before, concurrently, or after your academic endeavors, you will need to bulk up your resume with some solid research. Try to get published if you can. Find something that interests you if you can, or fake it otherwise. Lastly, you need to look like a sane, well rounded individual who has shed his past mistakes to be a great member of his community, and able to juggle life with these other things. Build towards a leadership role in a community service organization, take up community sports, get involved with student council. Anything. Do things to prove you would be a welcome addition to a med school community, and would play nicely with all the other lil boys and girls.

Oh and ace the MCAT like your life depends on it. (or try again until you do).

This is really the only way you're going to bulk up your resume to get in. Doing minor things that are related to being a doctor won't cut it. Being an EMT is bonus points in the extracurricular field, but alone is not enough. You need all three, with academics being the main focus.

 

[LessthanHopeful]

I'm going to be a bit blunt here because I think you need some tough love right now. Given the history you've stated, you should not apply to medical school right now. Even if you had good reasons for every one of your blemishes, they're still big negatives, when med schools are looking for positives.

If you do want to get into medical school, what you need is a turning point: a time for you to say "ok I screwed up in the past, but now I'm going to prove how awesome I can be." If you want to go into medicine, that point must be today. It's not enough to simply say it though. You need to go do now, because again, med schools are looking for positive actions and accomplishments.

There are three main areas to work on: academics, research, and extracurriculars. For the academics, you need to enroll in a post-bac or Masters program focused on medicine, and you must succeed in them. I'm talking great GPAs without any blemishes. Sounds like a lot, but if you want to live your dream, the first step is pushing yourself academically for 2 years. If you can't accomplish that, you can believe that you won't be able to push yourself enough in med school to make it to the finish line. That is precisely what med schools are looking for too: proof that you can push academically.

Either before, concurrently, or after your academic endeavors, you will need to bulk up your resume with some solid research. Try to get published if you can. Find something that interests you if you can, or fake it otherwise. Lastly, you need to look like a sane, well rounded individual who has shed his past mistakes to be a great member of his community, and able to juggle life with these other things. Build towards a leadership role in a community service organization, take up community sports, get involved with student council. Anything. Do things to prove you would be a welcome addition to a med school community, and would play nicely with all the other lil boys and girls.

Oh and ace the MCAT like your life depends on it. (or try again until you do).

This is really the only way you're going to bulk up your resume to get in. Doing minor things that are related to being a doctor won't cut it. Being an EMT is bonus points in the extracurricular field, but alone is not enough. You need all three, with academics being the main focus.

Thank you so much! I suppose I appreciate "blunt" information, for beating around the bush and being nice simply isn't helpful for me. I am absolutely determined to achieve this goal of mine, however after reading some of the posts by others, I was beginning to think that it was absolutely impossible. I am enrolled at the University of Colorado and will be pursuing a second degree with two majors: molecular biology and linguistics. I AM going to do well. I'm going to give my life away to study! I want this more than anything I've ever wanted and I don't care how long it takes me.

As far as happening upon extracurriculars and research is concerned, I feel like a pre-schooler trying to get on well with rocket scientists. I'm not sure really what focus the research should have, how formal it had ought to be, or even really how to get involved in it. I am in the process of figuring it all out, though. I am interested and passionate about a wide variety of things, so finding something with which to occupy my time and benefit myself and others should not be difficult. It's finding something in which I can be of use that will be challenging.

I think having this question answered has truly removed an enormous obstacle from my path. Truly, despite the years of taxing work ahead of me, I do believe that it's downhill from here. Knowing that, however long it takes and however difficult it is, it IS possible...my burden is lifted and I'm on my way!

Thanks once more!

 

[LessthanHopeful]

The not reading data issue isn't as uncommon as you seem to think (at least not 10 years ago). It's not COMMON, but it happened. I hope now you have better backup systems in place From what I can tell by a quick search, LU seems to be at least reasonably respected and is fully accredited, so there should be no issue with the acceptance of credits from there.

And I wish us both luck on the sordid past being made up for by a shining present. Have my share of black marks on my (decades old) transcript I'm currently working to overcome.

I have learned my lesson and also hope that we both can overcome our past. I am certain that if we are both prepared to work ourselves to the bone, we'll both see the inside of a hospital one way or another!

 

[blue0rchid]

Thank you so much! I suppose I appreciate "blunt" information, for beating around the bush and being nice simply isn't helpful for me. I am absolutely determined to achieve this goal of mine, however after reading some of the posts by others, I was beginning to think that it was absolutely impossible. I am enrolled at the University of Colorado and will be pursuing a second degree with two majors: molecular biology and linguistics. I AM going to do well. I'm going to give my life away to study! I want this more than anything I've ever wanted and I don't care how long it takes me.

As far as happening upon extracurriculars and research is concerned, I feel like a pre-schooler trying to get on well with rocket scientists. I'm not sure really what focus the research should have, how formal it had ought to be, or even really how to get involved in it. I am in the process of figuring it all out, though. I am interested and passionate about a wide variety of things, so finding something with which to occupy my time and benefit myself and others should not be difficult. It's finding something in which I can be of use that will be challenging.

I think having this question answered has truly removed an enormous obstacle from my path. Truly, despite the years of taxing work ahead of me, I do believe that it's downhill from here. Knowing that, however long it takes and however difficult it is, it IS possible...my burden is lifted and I'm on my way!

Thanks once more!

Best of luck to you, OP!!! You know you can do it. Don't forget to balance your life so you don't get burned out. Extra activities (sports or hobbies) would be great too, to show you're well-rounded and normal. I personally think research is sorta optional. It's great if you have it, but it wouldn't break you if you don't. Research on the schools you want to apply to and see how they weigh research. Clinical experiences (and volunteering) on the other hand is very important.
Again, good luck!

 

[ksn]

Don't you just have to take a 2 year post-bacc at most and it would never matter what your undergraduate GPA was?

I'm quite new, but I'd say contact an adcom and see what he or she suggests. Hope it helps!

 

[TriagePreMed]

I need some clarification here:

1. Do you have a BA or BS degree? What was the GPA on it?
2. If you have a BA/BS, was it an online degree? Was it from an accredited institution?
3. Were the F's a part of the BA/BS or the Masters program?
4. What was your Master's GPA?
5. With retakes, what's your GPA for your BA/BS and what's the GPA for the Masters?
6. Have you taken any science classes at all?


Depending on the answers, I will be able to help you more.

 

[PTWOB02]

Don't you just have to take a 2 year post-bacc at most and it would never matter what your undergraduate GPA was?

No, that would not work because all of your grades (old undergrad + post bacc) are counted as part of your GPA when applying to medical school.

 

[SisterDisco08]

If your undergrad was 10 years ago, move to Texas. They give you a clean slate after 10 years, or so I've been told. That's if you want to start fresh (most time/money/work).

Otherwise, do what people have already said

 

[LessthanHopeful]

I need some clarification here:

1. Do you have a BA or BS degree? What was the GPA on it?
2. If you have a BA/BS, was it an online degree? Was it from an accredited institution?
3. Were the F's a part of the BA/BS or the Masters program?
4. What was your Master's GPA?
5. With retakes, what's your GPA for your BA/BS and what's the GPA for the Masters?
6. Have you taken any science classes at all?


Depending on the answers, I will be able to help you more.

Sorry for the delay. I've been out of town and on vacation from my computer.
I have a BS degree in religion, an MA in theology. The first two years were completed at a community college, the remaining two of my undergrad and the entirety of my grad degree were online. The institution is accredited and the F's were a part of the Masters program. I retook two of the three classes (by the time I found I needed to enroll in the third class again, I also discovered it was not needed for the degree!) and received A's. My GPA for my BS is 3.3 (got a C in Hebrew) and my GPA for the Masters is 2.8.
I took one biology class nearly ten years ago and did poorly, but other than that I have had no science or math (unless you consider math for the liberal arts an actual math class).
My second degree will major in molecular biology and neuroscience, with a minor in linguistics.
I also have questions about whether to study a third language or not. I have three years of Spanish, with two studies abroad. I am extremely interested in language and in furthering my familiarity and fluency with them.
I am interested in researching any subject pertaining to neuroscience/neurobiology/neurogenesis and linguistics, language disorders, etcetera.
Now it's simply a matter of selecting from a multitude of research, volunteer, and work opportunities!
Thank you for your time and interest.

 

[LessthanHopeful]

You have a chance. The real question is whether or not you want to do medicine. Make sure you've thought it through and shadowed a few MDs, and spoken to medical students, etc before you embark on this journey. It's a great field, but for such a big decision, you want to have an idea of what you're getting yourself into.

Thank you very much for your interest in my query. I am certain that medicine is the field I wish to pursue. Although I am only a lowly EMT/laboratory assistant, I have witnessed enough of what I want to do and, more importantly, what I do NOT want to do to have a fairly clear idea about what I want to do. My anxiety is based, no upon whether medicine is for me, but whether I have a chance at all of achieving what I want more than practically anything. It's terrifying to think that this aspiration may not be possible at all...but then, if there is another purpose for my life, I cannot very well ignore it. Maybe I'll make it or maybe I'll have to learn my lesson the hard way by paying for my mistakes. Either way, I'm going to get wherever I get by working as hard as I can, learning as much as I can, and doing as much good as I can. Life won't wait for me to get into medical school. Life's happening right now.
I didn't mean to digress on you, but thank you very much!

 

[TriagePreMed]

Sorry for the delay. I've been out of town and on vacation from my computer.
I have a BS degree in religion, an MA in theology. The first two years were completed at a community college, the remaining two of my undergrad and the entirety of my grad degree were online. The institution is accredited and the F's were a part of the Masters program. I retook two of the three classes (by the time I found I needed to enroll in the third class again, I also discovered it was not needed for the degree!) and received A's. My GPA for my BS is 3.3 (got a C in Hebrew) and my GPA for the Masters is 2.8.
I took one biology class nearly ten years ago and did poorly, but other than that I have had no science or math (unless you consider math for the liberal arts an actual math class).
My second degree will major in molecular biology and neuroscience, with a minor in linguistics.
I also have questions about whether to study a third language or not. I have three years of Spanish, with two studies abroad. I am extremely interested in language and in furthering my familiarity and fluency with them.
I am interested in researching any subject pertaining to neuroscience/neurobiology/neurogenesis and linguistics, language disorders, etcetera.
Now it's simply a matter of selecting from a multitude of research, volunteer, and work opportunities!
Thank you for your time and interest.

I think if you take the necessary prerequisite courses at a 4-year and score high enough on the MCAT you won't need to go for a 2nd degree with a double major and minor attached to it.