Is this significant enough for an update letter to med schools

[masaraksh]

Hi SDN,

I am already out of college, I work as a researcher, and I'm applying this cycle. Application got in a little late so its not going as well as I hoped, but I still have a couple interviews scheduled for next year.

Right now I am looking at signing up for evening course(s) at a local University's Continuing Education school. It would start next January. If I sign up, is this something significant that I should update the med schools with? How does it look?


Cheers

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[Euxox]

No, it's not something update worthy by itself. No school is going to move you from the waitlist pile to the accept pile because you decided to enroll in evening classes.

At best, this is a small line item that you could mention along with a bunch of other things in a longer, more substantive update.

 

[seeinghowitgoes]

So this may be a bit of paradoxical answer (and it's coming from a non-expert, clearly); I don't think it's significant enough, and I would update them.

By itself, I don't think this does much - it's not like you're going to quell their fears about something on your application because you've simply enrolled in classes (it's not like you have a low GPA and are reporting a semester of straight A's); however, you said you applied late, which might send the wrong message to some schools. Thus, perhaps sending an update with a nice introduction stating your seriousness about the school could be helpful.

To be honest, it probably doesn't do anything for or against you, but if you've got the time and desire, why not?

 

[Euxox]

Thus, perhaps sending an update with a nice introduction stating your seriousness about the school could be helpful.

That's more of a letter of interest. Some schools like them and some schools find them irritating and explicitly ask for applicants not to send them in, so whether or not you should send a letter of interest is highly dependent on the school. Even if you were to write a letter of interest, I don't see the point of dropping the line about the evening classes. It's such a minor item that it would be weird to bring it up like that.

 

[No Limits]

That's more of a letter of interest. Some schools like them and some schools find them irritating and explicitly ask for applicants not to send them in, so whether or not you should send a letter of interest is highly dependent on the school. Even if you were to write a letter of interest, I don't see the point of dropping the line about the evening classes. It's such a minor item that it would be weird to bring it up like that.

Agreed.

OP most people update schools to let them know they got published, raised their GPA by getting straights A's, or got a higher MCAT score. Signing up for night school is not much of an update.

 

[seeinghowitgoes]

That's more of a letter of interest. Some schools like them and some schools find them irritating and explicitly ask for applicants not to send them in, so whether or not you should send a letter of interest is highly dependent on the school. Even if you were to write a letter of interest, I don't see the point of dropping the line about the evening classes. It's such a minor item that it would be weird to bring it up like that.

Yea, I suppose I imagined it structured as an update letter but with a paragraph following the update concerning an interest in the school (perhaps we can coin the term hybrid letter?). This way, you can attempt to mitigate some potential effects of applying late (if they read into your letter, which to be honest they won't anyway) while having a reason to write in so soon after applying (because I, like you, don't think signing up for classes is enough of a reason to write in). But yea, either way it probably has no effect.

But on the second note raised, to the OP, sending this type of update to school that doesn't want updates/letters of interest wouldn't end well regardless, so that's something to check before sending anything.

 

[masaraksh]

OK, so I definitely won't send this to any schools as an 'update letter' (but maybe it is fine if I can also get a new paper accepted soon and also include a blurb about teaching I do on the side).

How about this - I will be interviewing at a competitive research focused school in Feb. The evening classes I want to sign up for are grad-level Biotech & Biosci ones. Is sending this to a school I've got an interview at still 'not really substantial'?

 

[Euxox]

How about this - I will be interviewing at a competitive research focused school in Feb. The evening classes I want to sign up for are grad-level Biotech & Biosci ones. Is sending this to a school I've got an interview at still 'not really substantial'?

I'd still say that it isn't all that substantial. You can mention the classes passingly at the interview, but I would not write up an entire letter where the only update you can mention is the classes. Again, it would seem weird. The admissions committee would be wondering "is that really all he's got?"

Let me put it this way. Imagine you were applying to a bodybuilding club and you sent them a letter saying "yesterday I did 30 squats." Strictly speaking, it's a good thing that should help your application, but it is isn't really all that impressive. The fact that you thought this was something significant enough to bring up will raise some eyebrows, and not in a good way.

By the way, there is no need to send letters of interest or update letters between the time that you are invited to interview and the time that you attend the interview. In fact, some schools will not accept update letters until after you attend your interview.

 

[masaraksh]

^ Fair enough, I will hold off.

As for "is that really all he's got?"... I guess I don't have much. I work ~40-55hrs/wk. I shadow/volunteer once a week or once every two weeks. I teach science at a museum and I do a little tutoring. Adding 1-2 evening classes to this seems pretty significant to me.

 

[seeinghowitgoes]

OK, so I definitely won't send this to any schools as an 'update letter' (but maybe it is fine if I can also get a new paper accepted soon and also include a blurb about teaching I do on the side).

How about this - I will be interviewing at a competitive research focused school in Feb. The evening classes I want to sign up for are grad-level Biotech & Biosci ones. Is sending this to a school I've got an interview at still 'not really substantial'?

Agree with Euxox on this.

1) if you've got an interview, focus on being ready for that
2) schools probably aren't interested in updates unless it gives them a better picture of who they will be taking or if it answers some new question about them. If you've gotten an interview to a research-focused school, then you clearly meet their threshold - telling them you continue to meet their desires doesn't seem necessary.

If you submitted late and still have interviews I'm sure you're on a good path - good luck!

 

[No Limits]

^ Fair enough, I will hold off.

As for "is that really all he's got?"... I guess I don't have much. I work ~40-55hrs/wk. I shadow/volunteer once a week or once every two weeks. I teach science at a museum and I do a little tutoring. Adding 1-2 evening classes to this seems pretty significant to me.

yes but the schools would more likely be interested in how you do in these courses. If you sign up for courses and get straight C's or B's, I'm not sure anyone will be impressed. Informing schools that you just got straight A's after taking some upper division science courses therefore raising both your science and cum GPA is a better update in my opinion.

 

[Euxox]

^ Fair enough, I will hold off.

As for "is that really all he's got?"... I guess I don't have much. I work ~40-55hrs/wk. I shadow/volunteer once a week or once every two weeks. I teach science at a museum and I do a little tutoring. Adding 1-2 evening classes to this seems pretty significant to me.

I totally understand that this is a significant time commitment for you, but you have to understand that the admissions committee isn't just evaluating what you are doing now: It's evaluating everything you've done over the past four or five years. When you've already taken 120+ credits in undergrad, one or two new courses will hardly make a blip in the radar. Something like an accepted publication or a new job might.

I also agree with what No Limits said.

 

[Catalystik]

^ Fair enough, I will hold off.

As for "is that really all he's got?"... I guess I don't have much. I work ~40-55hrs/wk. I shadow/volunteer once a week or once every two weeks. I teach science at a museum and I do a little tutoring. Adding 1-2 evening classes to this seems pretty significant to me.

Updating about adding coursework on top of an already-full plate means that you're challenging your time-management, not that you've succeeded in in excelling despite the extra load you've taken on. The latter is what adcomms want to hear about.

 

[masaraksh]

yes but the schools would more likely be interested in how you do in these courses. If you sign up for courses and get straight C's or B's, I'm not sure anyone will be impressed. Informing schools that you just got straight A's after taking some upper division science courses therefore raising both your science and cum GPA is a better update in my opinion.

Not to sound like an arrogant *** but I'm applying with a 3.98 c, 4.00 s, 37 so its not so much about the grades.

I was just considering signing up for a couple classes like "Translational research and biomedical discoveries" and "Product Development in Biotech" because I actually think the courses are really cool. (btw, I scrambled the names of the classes for some anonymity and so none of you audit them laugh at me).

So my question was really if this is enough for a bit of an update. Clearly the consensus is that I should hold off, so I will - thanks Euxox & No Limit. But brining it up in my interview should be fair game I assume.

 

[No Limits]

Not to sound like an arrogant *** but I'm applying with a 3.98 c, 4.00 s, 37 so its not so much about the grades.

I was just considering signing up for a couple classes like "Translational research and biomedical discoveries" and "Product Development in Biotech" because I actually think the courses are really cool. (btw, I scrambled the names of the classes for some anonymity and so none of you audit them laugh at me).

So my question was really if this is enough for a bit of an update. Clearly the consensus is that I should hold off, so I will - thanks Euxox & No Limit. But brining it up in my interview should be fair game I assume.

I see, well if your grades and MCAT are what you say they are, there really isn't much you can update the school on other than you getting published. Your numbers are great, your interview is pretty much the deciding factor at this point. Assuming you are not awkward in person you should be fine without an update. Good luck though!

 

[masaraksh]

Thanks! That is only slightly reassuring.

I think I could be awkward.
I also have the most unbalanced MCAT ever: 15-14-8.

I guess I know what to do for the next month: publish or die.

 

[C.glabrata123]

Just an aside, but is it worth sending an update when you've been shadowing for a few months if you did not have any/much shadowing experience previously listed on AMCAS?

 

[Euxox]

Just an aside, but is it worth sending an update when you've been shadowing for a few months if you did not have any/much shadowing experience previously listed on AMCAS?

Yes, definitely. In your letter, make sure to write a bit about what you learned from your shadowing experiences.

 

[Catalystik]

Just an aside, but is it worth sending an update when you've been shadowing for a few months if you did not have any/much shadowing experience previously listed on AMCAS?

Yes.

 

[C.glabrata123]

Thanks!

 

[Ace-Co-A]

Not to turn this into a free-for-all of asking the SDN community about whether update letters should be sent, but that's exactly what I'm doing... (@wannabeMD19 started it!)

There are two facets of my application that might be of interest to admissions committees:

1. First, and most trivially, my fall grades are back and are strong (semester GPA of 3.9+ taking 4 upper level science classes and 1 writing intensive elective).
2. I have been invited to interview for the Gates-Cambridge Scholarship! (Around 100 people are interviewed for 40 spots, so I have a reasonably good shot). I applied to Cambridge to do my PhD in biochem. I can't imagine that this would look bad to adcoms, but it might backfire in that the school would realize that if accepted I would be requesting to defer my admission for 4 years to do my PhD. Any thoughts on this? It seems unique enough that it would get me some looks from schools that had otherwise lost interest (i.e., those schools that have not invited me to interview but have not yet rejected me).

I appreciate your time in helping me weigh out the pros/cons. Thanks guys.

 

[C.glabrata123]

Not to turn this into a free-for-all of asking the SDN community about whether update letters should be sent, but that's exactly what I'm doing... (@wannabeMD19 started it!)

There are two facets of my application that might be of interest to admissions committees:

1. First, and most trivially, my fall grades are back and are strong (semester GPA of 3.9+ taking 4 upper level science classes and 1 writing intensive elective).
2. I have been invited to interview for the Gates-Cambridge Scholarship! (Around 100 people are interviewed for 40 spots, so I have a reasonably good shot). I applied to Cambridge to do my PhD in biochem. I can't imagine that this would look bad to adcoms, but it might backfire in that the school would realize that if accepted I would be requesting to defer my admission for 4 years to do my PhD. Any thoughts on this? It seems unique enough that it would get me some looks from schools that had otherwise lost interest (i.e., those schools that have not invited me to interview but have not yet rejected me).

I appreciate your time in helping me weigh out the pros/cons. Thanks guys.

Can you defer a spot for that long? I'm not really in the know here but, if not, I'd be careful about mentioning the PhD possibility even though it is an amazing accomplishment. Congrats!

 

[Euxox]

I have been invited to interview for the Gates-Cambridge Scholarship!

Congratulations! That's a big deal. Definitely update schools on this.

 

[SN12357]

Not to turn this into a free-for-all of asking the SDN community about whether update letters should be sent, but that's exactly what I'm doing... (@wannabeMD19 started it!)

There are two facets of my application that might be of interest to admissions committees:

1. First, and most trivially, my fall grades are back and are strong (semester GPA of 3.9+ taking 4 upper level science classes and 1 writing intensive elective).
2. I have been invited to interview for the Gates-Cambridge Scholarship! (Around 100 people are interviewed for 40 spots, so I have a reasonably good shot). I applied to Cambridge to do my PhD in biochem. I can't imagine that this would look bad to adcoms, but it might backfire in that the school would realize that if accepted I would be requesting to defer my admission for 4 years to do my PhD. Any thoughts on this? It seems unique enough that it would get me some looks from schools that had otherwise lost interest (i.e., those schools that have not invited me to interview but have not yet rejected me).

I appreciate your time in helping me weigh out the pros/cons. Thanks guys.

Congratulations, but I cannot imagine it would be a good thing to tell schools that you are that much closer to not attending their school. I also seriously doubt that schools would let you defer; almost certainly you would have to apply all over again.

 

[PreMedOrDead]

if accepted I would be requesting to defer my admission for 4 years to do my PhD. Any thoughts on this?.

Yeah, I don't think deferments work like this.

No, it's not something update worthy by itself. No school is going to move you from the waitlist pile to the accept pile because you decided to enroll in evening classes.

At best, this is a small line item that you could mention along with a bunch of other things in a longer, more substantive update.

More substantial updates - like your first visit to the red light district.

 

[seeinghowitgoes]

Not to turn this into a free-for-all of asking the SDN community about whether update letters should be sent, but that's exactly what I'm doing... (@wannabeMD19 started it!)

There are two facets of my application that might be of interest to admissions committees:

1. First, and most trivially, my fall grades are back and are strong (semester GPA of 3.9+ taking 4 upper level science classes and 1 writing intensive elective).
2. I have been invited to interview for the Gates-Cambridge Scholarship! (Around 100 people are interviewed for 40 spots, so I have a reasonably good shot). I applied to Cambridge to do my PhD in biochem. I can't imagine that this would look bad to adcoms, but it might backfire in that the school would realize that if accepted I would be requesting to defer my admission for 4 years to do my PhD. Any thoughts on this? It seems unique enough that it would get me some looks from schools that had otherwise lost interest (i.e., those schools that have not invited me to interview but have not yet rejected me).

I appreciate your time in helping me weigh out the pros/cons. Thanks guys.

National fellowships are differentiators - under normal circumstances, I would definitely update them on that.

That being said, this is not really a "normal" circumstance considering the degree you're pursuing would be 4 years long. While schools will usually let you defer for 1-2 years for these types of fellowships (Gates-Cambridge, Marshall, Rhodes, Fulbright, probably Mitchell), I would be surprised if a school let you defer for 4 years (I've only got an n=1 here for somebody asking for such a lengthy deferral period, but I had a friend ask for a 3 year deferral for a national fellowship and he was denied it). Additionally, a couple schools explicitly state they will only allows deferral for Marshall and Rhodes (1-2 years), so I would also consult the school's literature before sending anything. In the end honesty is probably the best policy - you don't want to wastes schools' time and they don't want to waste yours (although this becomes more of an issue once you find out if you'll actually be taking 4 years for the PhD).

Really though, congrats and good luck with the interview! Even if the deferral doesn't work out, if you're a finalist for something like the Gates-Cambridge, I don't think you have to worry about having success in the future!

 

[Catalystik]

if accepted I would be requesting to defer my admission for 4 years to do my PhD. ]

I have not heard of a differral beyond two years. @LizzyM for more input.

 

[Ace-Co-A]

Can you defer a spot for that long? I'm not really in the know here but, if not, I'd be careful about mentioning the PhD possibility even though it is an amazing accomplishment. Congrats!

Congratulations, but I cannot imagine it would be a good thing to tell schools that you are that much closer to not attending their school. I also seriously doubt that schools would let you defer; almost certainly you would have to apply all over again.

Yeah, I don't think deferments work like this.

National fellowships are differentiators - under normal circumstances, I would definitely update them on that.

That being said, this is not really a "normal" circumstance considering the degree you're pursuing would be 4 years long. While schools will usually let you defer for 1-2 years for these types of fellowships (Gates-Cambridge, Marshall, Rhodes, Fulbright, probably Mitchell), I would be surprised if a school let you defer for 4 years (I've only got an n=1 here for somebody asking for such a lengthy deferral period, but I had a friend ask for a 3 year deferral for a national fellowship and he was denied it). Additionally, a couple schools explicitly state they will only allows deferral for Marshall and Rhodes (1-2 years), so I would also consult the school's literature before sending anything. In the end honesty is probably the best policy - you don't want to wastes schools' time and they don't want to waste yours (although this becomes more of an issue once you find out if you'll actually be taking 4 years for the PhD).

Really though, congrats and good luck with the interview! Even if the deferral doesn't work out, if you're a finalist for something like the Gates-Cambridge, I don't think you have to worry about having success in the future!

"... if accepted I would be requesting to defer my admission for 4 years to do my PhD."

I have not heard of a differral beyond two years. @LizzyM for more input.

The reservations expressed in the above users' comments are mine, as well. Taking one of the schools to which I've been accepted (UVA) as an example:

"Deferrals are actively discouraged, but such requests are evaluated on a case-by-case basis. One-year deferrals (and in extreme cases, two-year deferrals) will be considered for the following reasons:

Rhodes Scholarship
Teach for America
Fulbright Scholarship
Peace Corps
Full time community service projects
AmeriCorps
Full time research or fellowship opportunities
Family or personal emergencies
Military deployment

The Admissions Committee will not grant deferrals to applicants who wish to travel for recreation, take leave from academics, work to make money, establish Virginia residency, apply to other medical schools, or complete a degree program. Applicants who are offered a position from the Alternate List are not eligible for deferrals (italics mine)."

This policy makes it seem very unlikely that a multi-year deferment would be acceptable, and other programs would be provided with one more reason that they should reject me right away if I'm going to be participating in a program that is not an accepted reason for deferment.

Congratulations! That's a big deal. Definitely update schools on this.

The excitement reflected in Euxox's statement made me want to notify schools about this, but I think that I have been persuaded not to do so by the users' comments and the policy at UVA SOM. Thank you all for your thoughts.

 

[LizzyM]

I concur... deferments for a maximum of 2 years.

 

[Euxox]

The excitement reflected in Euxox's statement made me want to notify schools about this, but I think that I have been persuaded not to do so by the users' comments and the policy at UVA SOM. Thank you all for your thoughts.

I thought the Gates scholarship was for a Master's degree. (I guess I missed the part in your post about doing a PhD.) I agree with others, if you were interviewing for something shorter like a Rhodes or Marshall scholarship, it would be a good idea to update med schools, but a four year program is a different story.

 

[Ace-Co-A]

I thought the Gates scholarship was for a Master's degree. (I guess I missed the part in your post about doing a PhD.) I agree with others, if you were interviewing for something shorter like a Rhodes or Marshall scholarship, it would be a good idea to update med schools, but a four year program is a different story.

You can do either a Master's or a Doctorate through the Gates-Cambridge Scholarship. Thanks for your thoughts!