Is this the end of anesthesiology?

[DermViser]

Seriously. You keep calling him a communist, when you are the one espousing collectivist ideology.

He is espousing sacrificing one person's health (the individual) for the good of the collective.
See Che Guevara's other posts --- they are indeed of communist ideology.

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[WholeLottaGame7]

I don't think the Medicare promise was that we would spend eleventy billion times what you paid into Medicare in a futile 3 week end-of-life ICU stay.

I also don't see how recognizing that there are a finite amount of resources in the world and supporting a plan to rationally divvy those resources up is communist, it's realist. Saying otherwise is indeed insanity.

 

[bronx43]

He is espousing sacrificing one person's health (the individual) for the good of the collective.
See Che Guevara's other posts --- they are indeed of communist ideology.

Right... so we should totally espouse personal consumption to the detriment of the collective, because that's - democratic? Please leave.

 

[Dwindlin]

He is espousing sacrificing one person's health (the individual) for the good of the collective.
See Che Guevara's other posts --- they are indeed of communist ideology.

Seriously? My previous comment about your reading comprehension needs to be edited to atrocious.

 

[IanMcGalt]

You obviously don't know why Medicare came to pass. An entire segment of our population was given a promise that Medicare would be for them, which they PAY INTO THEIR ENTIRE LIVES. The promise was made that Medicare would be there for them, at the time they are MOST VULNERABLE.
There are certain segments of the population who are vulnerable and shouldn't have their care cut, just bc you believe their lives are not "worth" it, i.e. the elderly, the disabled - both young and old, and children.

I think there are 2 groups of elderly that you are lumping together. There are A) elderly with reasonable mental faculties and quality of life and B) advanced dementia or vegetative elderly, bed-bound, bedsore-types whose care will cost a fortune while providing no improvement in quality of life because they are 90% dead already. Withholding care from A because of an arbitrary age cut-off would be lousy. B is only getting interventions because the family is too weak to say stop or so delusional that they think miracles actually happen. Our tax dollars shouldn't be wasted on group B when there are many beneficial uses that are sacrificed for that complete waste of resources.
There should be no limit on treatment of pain for group A or B, but other interventions on demented or vegetative patients shouldn't receive public funding.

 

[Random Anesthesiologist]

...We are a democracy...

Well, technically, no. We are a constitutional republic.

Carry on.

 

[@JackShephard]

Well, technically, no. We are a constitutional republic.

Carry on.

 

[Pooh & Annie]

If you think we don't do enough for elderly sick people you've never stepped foot in a hospital or you live with your eyes closed. It gets ridiculous

Paul Ryan would make an absolute disaster of an economist. He seems completely unable to review data and create appropriate policy. This seems to be a frequent issue with almost all current conservatives

 

[IanMcGalt]

If you think we don't do enough for elderly sick people you've never stepped foot in a hospital or you live with your eyes closed. It gets ridiculous

Paul Ryan would make an absolute disaster of an economist. He seems completely unable to review data and create appropriate policy. This seems to be a frequent issue with almost all current conservatives

Well, religious right conservatives are anti-intellectual and anti-science because thought, reason, and education conflict with their religious beliefs.

There are other conservatives too, but they can't make it through bible belt republican primaries.

 

[Critical Mass REACHED]

How did this thread go from "The end of Anesthesiology" to Sarah Palin's Death Panels?

 

[DermViser]

I don't think the Medicare promise was that we would spend eleventy billion times what you paid into Medicare in a futile 3 week end-of-life ICU stay.

I also don't see how recognizing that there are a finite amount of resources in the world and supporting a plan to rationally divvy those resources up is communist, it's realist. Saying otherwise is indeed insanity.

No one' s talking about futile ICU care, genius.

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

No one' s talking about futile ICU care, genius.

Rawr! If you've resorted to name-calling, does that mean I won???

Chillax.

 

[DermViser]

Rawr! If you've resorted to name-calling, does that mean I won???

Chillax.

Not when you've accused me of something I haven't said. But great strawman argument. Congrats for blowing it down.

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

Not when you've accused me of something I haven't said. But great strawman argument. Congrats for blowing it down.

I didn't accuse you of anything. Now you've falsely accused me of accusing you of something.

I was making a statement that A) there are finite resources, and B) we have to have some way of rationally assigning them. Are you disagreeing with either of those points?

Because if so, there's not really any point in continuing the conversation.

 

[DermViser]

I didn't accuse you of anything. Now you've falsely accused me of accusing you of something.

I was making a statement that A) there are finite resources, and B) we have to have some way of rationally assigning them. Are you disagreeing with either of those points?

Because if so, there's not really any point in continuing the conversation.

Your statement was "I don't think the Medicare promise was that we would spend eleventy billion times what you paid into Medicare in a futile 3 week end-of-life ICU stay." Oopsie.

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

Your statement was "I don't think the Medicare promise was that we would spend eleventy billion times what you paid into Medicare in a futile 3 week end-of-life ICU stay." Oopsie.

Right. Where's the accusation? Oopsie!

 

[DermViser]

Right. Where's the accusation? Oopsie!

Why would you even bring up the 3-week futile ICU care example, if that is not what I am even referring to in this discussion? By bringing it up, you try to make it seem as if somehow I'm advocating that Medicare be used on futile care, which I am not.

 

[Spinach Dip]

What has this turned into?

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

Why would you even bring up the 3-week futile ICU care example, if that is not what I am even referring to in this discussion? By bringing it up, you try to make it seem as if somehow I'm advocating that Medicare be used on futile care, which I am not.

Now we're getting somewhere! I did not bring up that example to suggest that you were suggesting we use Medicare on futile end-of-life care, I brought it up to show that rationing care is not "communist," but a necessary part of any health care discussion.

 

[DermViser]

Now we're getting somewhere! I did not bring up that example to suggest that you were suggesting we use Medicare on futile end-of-life care, I brought it up to show that rationing care is not "communist," but a necessary part of any health care discussion.

No we've always been there. Only now you're catching up. The example I was using was chemotherapy for cancer in the elderly.

 

[bronx43]

Now we're getting somewhere! I did not bring up that example to suggest that you were suggesting we use Medicare on futile end-of-life care, I brought it up to show that rationing care is not "communist," but a necessary part of any health care discussion.

I would just quit wasting my time with this. She debates like a 5 year old. Like I said, this thread should be closed.

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

I would just quit wasting my time with this. She debates like a 5 year old. Like I said, this thread should be closed.

Yah, what's the saying about arguing with idiots? They drag you down to their level and beat you at their own game?

 

[wjs010]

Well, religious right conservatives are anti-intellectual and anti-science because thought, reason, and education conflict with their religious beliefs.

There are other conservatives too, but they can't make it through bible belt republican primaries.

They have Dr ben carson( actually an independent) who would be great. He is religious but he is obviously all for the advancement of science and healthcare. He has some common sense ideas too. I usually vote libertarian, but I'll be damned if I don't vote for him. I don't care if he's super religious.

 

[D P356]

Yah, what's the saying about arguing with idiots? They drag you down to their level and beat you at their own game?

I've also heard, if you're arguing with an idiot you'll soon realize there are actually two idiots in the conversation.

 

[Random Anesthesiologist]

meh. nm.

 

[BuzzPhreed]

... and B) advanced dementia or vegetative elderly, bed-bound, bedsore-types whose care will cost a fortune while providing no improvement in quality of life because they are 90% dead already. ... B is only getting interventions because the family is too weak to say stop or so delusional that they think miracles actually happen.

No, B is still getting interventions because (a) doctors and hospitals still get paid for those interventions and (b) the family still gets grandma's Social Security check every month. Let's not be totally naive here.

 

[IanMcGalt]

No, B is still getting interventions because (a) doctors and hospitals still get paid for those interventions and (b) the family still gets grandma's Social Security check every month. Let's not be totally naive here.

Sure some doctors are delusional or greedy and want to bill for futile care but sometimes they are roped-into it by the family and the legal system. Ultimately, the family makes withdrawal of care decisions and very frequently makes the wrong decision. Death panels will be the best result of Obamacaid.

 

[Pooh & Annie]

They have Dr ben carson( actually an independent) who would be great. He is religious but he is obviously all for the advancement of science and healthcare. He has some common sense ideas too. I usually vote libertarian, but I'll be damned if I don't vote for him. I don't care if he's super religious.

His common sense includes the belief that Obamacare is the worst thing since slavery. Maybe he would be an ok politician, but certainly not much of a historian.

 

[wjs010]

His common sense includes the belief that Obamacare is the worst thing since slavery. Maybe he would be an ok politician, but certainly not much of a historian.

Meh . He was trying to make a point. Not being literal. Are you really that gullible?

 

[Pooh & Annie]

Meh . He was trying to make a point. Not being literal. Are you really that gullible?

Maybe I am. Maybe you are. He's also called the US a Gestapo state that's much like nazi Germany. And if you believe in evolution you're morally and ethically lacking. This is 2014, mind you. And you think he'd be a good president.
I just decided you are.

 

[wjs010]

Maybe I am. Maybe you are. He's also called the US a Gestapo state that's much like nazi Germany. And if you believe in evolution you're morally and ethically lacking. This is 2014, mind you. And you think he'd be a good president.
I just decided you are.

But I don't give a rats ass about his religious views. He has good healthcare and economy views. He's exaggerating and making points when he sounds too extreme. It's not literal.

 

[Pooh & Annie]

He must have the memory and technical skills necessary to be a surgeon. But the more I read about this guy, the more convinced I am that he is SEVERELY lacking in analytical ability. Of course I've never met him, but what he says and seems to think really make him sound straight up dumb.

 

[IanMcGalt]

Guess what Republican's. There are fiscal conservatives without insane religious beliefs. Please nominate them.

 

[Random Anesthesiologist]

Guess what Republican's. There are fiscal conservatives without insane religious beliefs. Please nominate them.

Your definition of insane is subjective. I'm not a Republican, but I am a fiscal conservative. Socially liberal on everything except abortion, because I happen to value and want to protect human life from the beginning. But I also recognize that people should be allowed to make (stupid) decisions on their own. I believe in God, and Jesus Christ, but also that you can't force someone to believe in them too. People have to come by free will. Voted Gary Johnson last time around, because he seemed to be the best candidate to uphold the Constitution. I'm just glad he got 1% vote, now Libertarians should be on the ticket, period. FWIW, he has run as a Republican, as has Ron Paul. Although, I may end up voting for Rand Paul if he's on the 2016 ticket, IDK.

I'm just absolutely sick of the rhetoric and outlook these days. "Ban Bossy!!!!" but be ok with women calling each other bitches, and making it a staple of your way of living. A "War on women" that doesn't exist. Sainthood for Obama. Horribly implemented laws that nobody cared to think through. Wars, wars, wars. Corruption at every level of higher gov't. Lobbyists. "But BUSH!!!/KOCH!!!!/MONSANTO!!!!". I'm so sick of it, and I was sick of it before Obama. This is just what has been relevant for the past 5+ years. If Democrats nominate any establishment politician in 2016, they get the middle finger from me, same for Republicans. I shudder at the thought of another Clinton or Bush in the WH.

People need to stop being so snarky and actually want to make changes. Do more, set better examples, talk less.

 

[wjs010]

Your definition of insane is subjective. I'm not a Republican, but I am a fiscal conservative. Socially liberal on everything except abortion, because I happen to value and want to protect human life from the beginning. But I also recognize that people should be allowed to make (stupid) decisions on their own. I believe in God, and Jesus Christ, but also that you can't force someone to believe in them too. People have to come by free will. Voted Gary Johnson last time around, because he seemed to be the best candidate to uphold the Constitution. I'm just glad he got 1% vote, now Libertarians should be on the ticket, period. FWIW, he has run as a Republican, as has Ron Paul. Although, I may end up voting for Rand Paul if he's on the 2016 ticket, IDK.

I'm just absolutely sick of the rhetoric and outlook these days. "Ban Bossy!!!!" but be ok with women calling each other bitches, and making it a staple of your way of living. A "War on women" that doesn't exist. Sainthood for Obama. Horribly implemented laws that nobody cared to think through. Wars, wars, wars. Corruption at every level of higher gov't. Lobbyists. "But BUSH!!!/KOCH!!!!/MONSANTO!!!!". I'm so sick of it, and I was sick of it before Obama. This is just what has been relevant for the past 5+ years. If Democrats nominate any establishment politician in 2016, they get the middle finger from me, same for Republicans. I shudder at the thought of another Clinton or Bush in the WH.

People need to stop being so snarky and actually want to make changes. Do more, set better examples, talk less.

Voted Gary Johnson as well. Right on

 

[Spinach Dip]

Your definition of insane is subjective. I'm not a Republican, but I am a fiscal conservative. Socially liberal on everything except abortion, because I happen to value and want to protect human life from the beginning. But I also recognize that people should be allowed to make (stupid) decisions on their own. I believe in God, and Jesus Christ, but also that you can't force someone to believe in them too. People have to come by free will. Voted Gary Johnson last time around, because he seemed to be the best candidate to uphold the Constitution. I'm just glad he got 1% vote, now Libertarians should be on the ticket, period. FWIW, he has run as a Republican, as has Ron Paul. Although, I may end up voting for Rand Paul if he's on the 2016 ticket, IDK.

I'm just absolutely sick of the rhetoric and outlook these days. "Ban Bossy!!!!" but be ok with women calling each other bitches, and making it a staple of your way of living. A "War on women" that doesn't exist. Sainthood for Obama. Horribly implemented laws that nobody cared to think through. Wars, wars, wars. Corruption at every level of higher gov't. Lobbyists. "But BUSH!!!/KOCH!!!!/MONSANTO!!!!". I'm so sick of it, and I was sick of it before Obama. This is just what has been relevant for the past 5+ years. If Democrats nominate any establishment politician in 2016, they get the middle finger from me, same for Republicans. I shudder at the thought of another Clinton or Bush in the WH.

People need to stop being so snarky and actually want to make changes. Do more, set better examples, talk less.

I only agree with 50% of what Ron Paul says, but that's 60% more than 70% of other politicians say 80% of the time.

 

[Random Anesthesiologist]

I only agree with 50% of what Ron Paul says, but that's 60% more than 70% of other politicians say 80% of the time.

Lol