ITE scores when applying for job

[XRanger]

When you apply for jobs, do they look at/care about your ITE scores? If you do well on your ites, would you put it on your resume/CV?

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[pjl]

When you apply for jobs, do they look at/care about your ITE scores? If you do well on your ites, would you put it on your resume/CV?

We had an applicant put all their scores on cv. We looked at it, said it was strange, and that he must be proud of it, and promptly ignored them. For our group, it would be a neutral.

 

[bigdan]

I would recommend asking your program director if/how your ITE scores are reflected in your final evaluation of residency. My program had a "summative evaluation" (or something like that) that was sent to places whenever an inquiry was made by future employers. I think it featured our ITE scores & the percentiles, among other things.

I'd recommend not putting them on your CV, and just focus on passing the exams - the guy that has passed his boards first try with iffy ITE scores is less of a red flag than the guy with great ITE scores that fails the certification exams.

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

If a group has been burned by someone not passing their written boards in the past, good ITE scores might be reassuring. Just my opinion.

 

[Guillemot]

It depends if the person reviewing your app did well or not.

 

[Consigliere]

If some hard on asked me what my ITE scores were during a job interview, I'd leave immediately. They are about as relavant as your MCAT scores.

 

[mostwanted]

It doesn't matter as an attending, but it is important for fellowships. Also can play a role in perception among residency colleagues, if you don't do well.

 

[Consigliere]

It doesn't matter as an attending, but it is important for fellowships. Also can play a role in perception among residency colleagues, if you don't do well.

Right, because we all know how important THAT is.

 

[pgg]

The graceful way to tell potential employers about your awesome ITE scores is to have someone else do it. You're likely to list your program director and some other attendings as a reference, right?

If you're an academic superstar, they'll bring it up in their LORs or when phoned. When you ask them to write your LOR, you'll give them a CV and that's your chance to remind the attending how smart you are.

For all the sarcastic dismissal in this thread, potential employers are going to be happy to hear you're likely to pass your boards 1st try.


Fellowships care about ITE/AKT scores, and you should bring it up, but that's different because you're going to be a student and your academic achievement is one of the central things they're going to be interested in.

 

[deleted162650]

I'd go ahead and list them. Put them just above your MCAT and USMLE scores and just below your SAT/ACT score. I'd probably skip your PSAT score unless you absolutely crushed it .


In a ll seriousness though, I don't see a problem listing them in an inconspicuous way. I had mine on my CV but I doubt it helped much. I'd file them under the miiiight help but definitely won't hurt (assuming you have stellar scores). I don't think they're any less relevant to PP employers than that paper you were 14th author on as an MS3 yet everybody likes to throw that on there.

 

[urge]

When you apply for jobs, do they look at/care about your ITE scores? If you do well on your ites, would you put it on your resume/CV?

I would imagine your ca1 and ca2 scores are a good predictor of your future performance. Ca3 scores not so much since even the laziest/dumbest residents start studying extra hard to make for lost time/IQ.

I can see how it can rub some people the wrong way if their own personal scores were marginal.

Overall I would say don't put them unless you are applying to a highly coveted elitist group where it is hard to get in. For example, I once interviewed at a group that mostly hired ivy league graduates. Scores were part of the interview. For a group in the boonies forget it.

 

[Random Anesthesiologist]

If you're going to list them, please be a clinical rockstar also. We all know people who performed marginally on the ITE but are amazing in the OR. And vice versa.

 

[urge]

If you're going to list them, please be a clinical rockstar also. We all know people who performed marginally on the ITE but are amazing in the OR. And vice versa.

Is there a good objective way to document that you are a clinical rockstar?

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

If you're going to list them, please be a clinical rockstar also. We all know people who performed marginally on the ITE but are amazing in the OR. And vice versa.

But everyone is a clinical rockstar!

 

[pgg]

Is there a good objective way to document that you are a clinical rockstar?

This month's Anesthesiology has an article about mining the EMR to aid in objectively evaluating residents' clinical performance.

I'm dubious that such data mining will allow meaningful ranking in the fat part of the bell curve, but I do believe it will aid in objectively identifying outliers. And the outliers are the people we're most interested in having that data on ...

So the answer to your question is a definite maybe.

 

[Random Anesthesiologist]

Is there a good objective way to document that you are a clinical rockstar?

I would think letters of recommendation would reflect that.

 

[Random Anesthesiologist]

But everyone is a clinical rockstar!

No, no they're not.

 

[pjl]

I would think letters of recommendation would reflect that.

Actually, letters of recommendation are worthless, as is talking to most of the people at a program. Almost everyone wants to sell their residents as good and many wont bring up any concerns.

It is frustrating, but over many years and maintained relationships you finally find MAYBE one or two people at the programs you know that will be honest. Once you find that person, they are gold, and you run every applicant you get from their program by them, and send them gifts. You ask them to send you names unsolicited when they find good residents, then you act on those names even if you dont have a urgent need.

In other words, academic MDs, please do not send crappy applicants our way and tell us they are great. You ruin your own reputation doing that and hurt the chances of us PP guys taking future people from your program.

 

[Random Anesthesiologist]

Actually, letters of recommendation are worthless, as is talking to most of the people at a program. Almost everyone wants to sell their residents as good and many wont bring up any concerns.

It is frustrating, but over many years and maintained relationships you finally find MAYBE one or two people at the programs you know that will be honest. Once you find that person, they are gold, and you run every applicant you get from their program by them, and send them gifts. You ask them to send you names unsolicited when they find good residents, then you act on those names even if you dont have a urgent need.

In other words, academic MDs, please do not send crappy applicants our way and tell us they are great. You ruin your own reputation doing that and hurt the chances of us PP guys taking future people from your program.

I know several attendings who have declined to write letters for people. They're not worthless. Maybe worth following up with a phone call, but not worthless.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

No, no they're not.

I was being facetious.

 

[Random Anesthesiologist]

I was being facetious.

I know

 

[Fajardo04]

If I saw ITE scores listed on a CV, I would consider that a red flag. People like this have a mentality that passing their ABA boards is already "in the bag" for them and tend not to study as much as they should. I know of 2 people from residency who scored >95 percentile on ITEs and didn't pass boards on the first try. Both stated that they didn't study enough since they thought they didn't need to. I agree with previous posters that if you want to show your academic superstar status, the best way is for someone else to do it in a LOR.

 

[pjl]

I know several attendings who have declined to write letters for people. They're not worthless. Maybe worth following up with a phone call, but not worthless.

Have you ever read letters, or called faculty that you don't have a personal relationship with for a reference? If you have had luck that route, I am impressed.

 

[Random Anesthesiologist]

Have you ever read letters, or called faculty that you don't have a personal relationship with for a reference? If you have had luck that route, I am impressed.

Personal relationship? Yes. All of my reference writers for fellowship I have professional relationships with only. I must be doing fine based on the responses to those letters. No, I did not read them.

 

[pjl]

Personal relationship? Yes. All of my reference writers for fellowship I have professional relationships with only. I must be doing fine based on the responses to those letters. No, I did not read them.

I am talking about from a hiring side. If you dont have a personal relationship with your letter writers you are doing something wrong.

 

[Random Anesthesiologist]

I am talking about from a hiring side. If you dont have a personal relationship with your letter writers you are doing something wrong.

I'll let you know when I get to that point.

 

[pjl]

Expect to be frustrated by the process.

 

[GassmanMD]

I had my scores and mentioned the ABA exam top 10%ile letter I received. The CV is your only chance to brag, why waste it? Ultimately I got hired at my dream job so at least it worked out for me. Sounds like from these responses that some people would view it negatively. My experience leads me to disagree.

 

[deleted171991]

If I saw ITE scores listed on a CV, I would consider that a red flag. People like this have a mentality that passing their ABA boards is already "in the bag" for them and tend not to study as much as they should. I know of 2 people from residency who scored >95 percentile on ITEs and didn't pass boards on the first try. Both stated that they didn't study enough since they thought they didn't need to. I agree with previous posters that if you want to show your academic superstar status, the best way is for someone else to do it in a LOR.

All a LoR proves is that the person was liked by the author. It's not like the Mob, where you are personally responsible if your protégé fails.

The fact that exams don't matter as much in anesthesia proves only that CRNAs are right when they say that even a nurse can do this job.

 

[Laryngophed]

This month's Anesthesiology has an article about mining the EMR to aid in objectively evaluating residents' clinical performance.

I'm dubious that such data mining will allow meaningful ranking in the fat part of the bell curve, but I do believe it will aid in objectively identifying outliers. And the outliers are the people we're most interested in having that data on ...

So the answer to your question is a definite maybe.

You hedged that one like you are running for president.

 

[pgg]

You hedged that one like you are running for president.

I'm starting to get this gnawing feeling in my gut that it's going to be Trump v Clinton. Maybe this'll be the year the Cthulhu write-in campaign takes off.

 

[Laryngophed]

I'm starting to get this gnawing feeling in my gut that it's going to be Trump v Clinton. Maybe this'll be the year the Cthulhu write-in campaign takes off.

Never discount the power of Flying Spaghetti Monster. He can raise funds like Mint prints Benjamins.

 

[pgg]

All a LoR proves is that the person was liked by the author. It's not like the Mob, where you are personally responsible if your protege fails.

I sort of agree. LORs are just networking put into ink form.

Even if the reader doesn't know the writer, they're probably useful for flagging outliers on the awful side, and giving a boost to outliers on the exceptional side.