IV at top ten program recently...

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

topprogram

New Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2015
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Has anyone here interviewed at a top ten program and felt that is was extraordinarily weak? I don't want to name the place I was at recently, but I got the feeling that the reputation was unwarranted. Do you think I missed something or is this just an example of a poor fit?

Members don't see this ad.
 
You have a single post on the forum and you are afraid to name the program? Because they might recognize you? Is Top your first name and Program the last? :p
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I'd rather not name the program in an abundance of caution. The most I'll say in an identifying manner is that the institution is quite research heavy but came off as clinically daft. Maybe everyone is just exhausted at this point in the interview season, myself included?
 
Members don't see this ad :)
is daft really the word you're looking for? i like the usage... kind of like the opposite of deft?
in any event, i'm sure you can find plenty of individual anesthesiologists at top 10 programs who are research heavy and clinically....daft, but i can't think of a "top 10" program that isn't affiliated tertiary+ surgical referral center. do you mean the program doesn't get complex, sick patients, or that all of the attendings are ******ed, don't teach, and steal procedures from residents?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Has anyone here interviewed at a top ten program and felt that is was extraordinarily weak? I don't want to name the place I was at recently, but I got the feeling that the reputation was unwarranted. Do you think I missed something or is this just an example of a poor fit?

i think you have to list the top 10 programs first since many ppl have different top 10s..
though i have a feeling you are referring to MGH
 
Has anyone here interviewed at a top ten program and felt that is was extraordinarily weak? I don't want to name the place I was at recently, but I got the feeling that the reputation was unwarranted. Do you think I missed something or is this just an example of a poor fit?

My only thought is that an interviewee isn't qualified to assess how strong a residency program is. You spent a day there talking to some people? Wow.

The only thing useful you can get from interview day is an assessment of what daily life is like for residents and how well you might fit in personality wise. That's pretty much it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
I thought he was wondering how they place an IV at a top ten place.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 11 users
My only thought is that an interviewee isn't qualified to assess how strong a residency program is. You spent a day there talking to some people? Wow.

The only thing useful you can get from interview day is an assessment of what daily life is like for residents and how well you might fit in personality wise. That's pretty much it.

Agree with this.

You can maybe get a sense of the exposure, but to determine a program is weak is going to need more than just an interview day. It also depends on your meaning of "weak".
 
Agree with this.

You can maybe get a sense of the exposure, but to determine a program is weak is going to need more than just an interview day. It also depends on your meaning of "weak".

Back when I interviewed, when men were men and women were nurses (I kid, I kid), there was one big-name program where residents openly admitted they were really struggling to make their numbers. They were getting double assigned on hearts, for example, just to make the bare minimum number they needed.

IMHO that's weak.
 
I thought he was wondering how they place an IV at a top ten place.
I know. I thought you'd say, "At Mayo, we'd advance the iv a couple of mm after the flash before sliding off the catheter."
It's the same as everywhere else except that you start every sentence with "At program x..." If you are from a top ten program. Everyone is very impressed by this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
My only thought is that an interviewee isn't qualified to assess how strong a residency program is. You spent a day there talking to some people? Wow.

The only thing useful you can get from interview day is an assessment of what daily life is like for residents and how well you might fit in personality wise. That's pretty much it.

I disagree but it's quite possible I'm wrong. You really think interviewees have no basis to judge the quality of the program? There are both objective and subjective data one can gather during a visit to assess the strengths and weaknesses at a place.

Back when I interviewed, when men were men and women were nurses (I kid, I kid), there was one big-name program where residents openly admitted they were really struggling to make their numbers. They were getting double assigned on hearts, for example, just to make the bare minimum number they needed.

IMHO that's weak.

It wasn't that bad. Mostly a combination of a lot of little things. Maybe they were more open about their weaknesses than other places. Who knows.
 
I disagree but it's quite possible I'm wrong. You really think interviewees have no basis to judge the quality of the program? There are both objective and subjective data one can gather during a visit to assess the strengths and weaknesses at a place.

You are wrong. There is no way around it. You have no way of judging the quality of the education the residents are receiving on interview day. You aren't in an OR for a case and certainly not able to see a typical day for a resident (other than to hear one of them describe it). And FWIW, the residents themselves aren't even the best judge of their own education since they aren't at other programs and they can't see what other people are doing compared to what they are doing.


Here's what I mean by quality education: doing all sorts of cases on sick patients of all ages and learning different ways to do the anesthetics for each. Also getting enough basic education to cruise through written and oral boards with ease. Then when you graduate you can go be successful in any fellowship or PP job. None of that is information you can get from the interview day.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Back when I interviewed, when men were men and women were nurses (I kid, I kid), there was one big-name program where residents openly admitted they were really struggling to make their numbers. They were getting double assigned on hearts, for example, just to make the bare minimum number they needed.

IMHO that's weak.

That falls under exposure which I said could be assessed on interviews.
 
Here's what you want in a program.
Do you get your case numbers easily? They should laugh and say they had most of their cases 1/2 way through.
Are they a major referral center that is full service and gets the nastiest cases referred to them on the daily? Those cases put hair on your chest and give you skills and instincts. If you can do a whipple on a 86 yo cardiac cripple or a AAA repair on a former president, you can do a lap chole or a lumbar fusion.
Do you get trauma or liver transplant experience? I think both are valuable and you get some good stool hitting the fan experiences, tough lines, dicey airways, etc.
Do they either teach or get you out at a reasonable hour regularly to study yourself? You need one or the other. My place had required lectures. Others may prefer independent study.
How is the pass rate for first time exam takers? They know, they know the exact number for every class going back a decade.
How is fellowship placement? Great programs will have near 100% successful fellowship placement at major specialty programs.
And finally, and maybe most importantly, location. Can you live there without becoming suicidal for 4 years?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
Here's what you want in a program.
Do you get your case numbers easily? They should laugh and say they had most of their cases 1/2 way through.
Are they a major referral center that is full service and gets the nastiest cases referred to them on the daily? Those cases put hair on your chest and give you skills and instincts. If you can do a whipple on a 86 yo cardiac cripple or a AAA repair on a former president, you can do a lap chole or a lumbar fusion.
Do you get trauma or liver transplant experience? I think both are valuable and you get some good stool hitting the fan experiences, tough lines, dicey airways, etc.
Do they either teach or get you out at a reasonable hour regularly to study yourself? You need one or the other. My place had required lectures. Others may prefer independent study.
How is the pass rate for first time exam takers? They know, they know the exactly number for every class going back a decade.
How is fellowship placement? Great programs will have near 100% successful fellowship placement at major specialty programs.
And finally, and maybe most importantly, location. Can you live there without becoming suicidal for 4 years?

Agree with everything above.

Lots of big hairy cases is the foundation of a great program. Do the surgeons do crazy s*** there and present you with challenges? You can't help but learn in such an environment. The clinical material makes the difference between an average program and a great one. You could even go so far as to ask to see a few days of OR schedules to see what they really do. It would be a rational point of comparison as long as you keep in mind that things do change.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Here's what you want in a program.
Do you get your case numbers easily? They should laugh and say they had most of their cases 1/2 way through.
Are they a major referral center that is full service and gets the nastiest cases referred to them on the daily? Those cases put hair on your chest and give you skills and instincts. If you can do a whipple on a 86 yo cardiac cripple or a AAA repair on a former president, you can do a lap chole or a lumbar fusion.
Do you get trauma or liver transplant experience? I think both are valuable and you get some good stool hitting the fan experiences, tough lines, dicey airways, etc.
Do they either teach or get you out at a reasonable hour regularly to study yourself? You need one or the other. My place had required lectures. Others may prefer independent study.
How is the pass rate for first time exam takers? They know, they know the exact number for every class going back a decade.
How is fellowship placement? Great programs will have near 100% successful fellowship placement at major specialty programs.
And finally, and maybe most importantly, location. Can you live there without becoming suicidal for 4 years?

Agree with this as well. I honestly don't know what top program wouldn't meet most if not all of these (except location) that the OP is referring to.
 
Top