Ivy League doesn't have pharmacy

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RxMTM

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Hey guys. Let me know your thoughts as to why ivy league schools don't have pharmacy programs. Thanks.
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Why does it matter?
 
RxMTM said:
Hey guys. Let me know your thoughts as to why ivy league schools don't have pharmacy programs. Thanks.
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Let me know your thoughts on why you're such a tool.
 
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RxMTM said:
Hey guys. Let me know your thoughts as to why ivy league schools don't have pharmacy programs. Thanks.
Click to expand...


RxMTM said:
Why don't Ivy league schools have pharmacy schools? It's because they know it's bull****. Even Harvard doesn't have a pharmacy school. It's because pharmacy is a bunch of douchbags looking for 100K.
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You answered your own question.
 
don't you just hate it when someone asks you things when his mind is already made up?
 
The real answer is because pharmacy was originally not much of a research profession, but a technical profession. The major state public schools were the first to open up schools of pharmacy. These old, established schools are the leaders today in research, grant money, quality of graduates, and quality of education. The reason the Ivy schools don't have programs is because they couldn't compete with the established schools. Harvard wouldn't want their shiny new pharmacy program outdone by schools whose main university aren't tier 1 schools. And if they opened one up, it would be. So they don't.

That's the real reason...if you actually cared.

And Ivy schools are for douchebags that didn't have a childhood and just overachieved in high school, anyway.
 
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Northwestern actually had a pharmacy school for a while, but it was closed down. They weren't able to get the funding/support/enrollment which the University of Illinois provided to its pharmacy school.
 
If the OP cared so much (obviously doesn't), he might find out why Columbia phased out its college of pharmacy.
 
Why don't ivy league schools have a lot of programs? :idea:
 
Columbia university did have a pharmacy BS degree but they got rid of it. They wanted to focus more on the liberal arts. (1829-1976)

Ballard, Charles W. A History of the College of Pharmacy, Columbia University. (New York: Columbia University Press, 1954)
RS111.N48 B21 1954

Rusby, Henry H. The College of Pharmacy of the City of New York. (New York: The Faculty, 1895?)
RS111.N48 R89 1895

Wimmer, Curt P. The College of Pharmacy of the City of New York, included in Columbia University in 1904. (New York: The College of Pharmacy of the City of New York, 1929)
RS111.N48 W71 1929
 
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Comments 2, 4, 5, and 6 were rubbish. The rest of you guys provided some good thoughts. Thanks. My goal here is to really provoke thought in the forum.

P.S. Intelligent responses are the best way to disarm someone. One-liners or "feed the troll" doesn't really do anything.
 
Passion4Sci said:
Why doesn't Princeton have a law school?
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I'm not sure. But the majority of ivy leagues do have law schools. Our president, Obama graduated from Harvard school of law.
 
RxMTM said:
I'm not sure. But the majority of ivy leagues do have law schools. Our president, Obama graduated from Harvard school of law.
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Why doesn't a boar hog have teets?
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
The real answer is because pharmacy was originally not much of a research profession, but a technical profession. The major state public schools were the first to open up schools of pharmacy. These old, established schools are the leaders today in research, grant money, quality of graduates, and quality of education. The reason the Ivy schools don't have programs is because they couldn't compete with the established schools. Harvard wouldn't want their shiny new pharmacy program outdone by schools whose main university aren't tier 1 schools. And if they opened one up, it would be. So they don't.

That's the real reason...if you actually cared.

And Ivy schools are for douchebags that didn't have a childhood and just overachieved in high school, anyway.
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I definitely didn't go to an Ivy League, but people (who don't know anything about the issue) always asked me why my undergrad has a med and law school and doesn't have a pharm school... I always assumed it was because they would not be initially accredited and they don't want to be overshadowed or outdone by the other schools.

atticus27 said:
Why doesn't a boar hog have teets?
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What if bull frogs had wings?
 
RxMTM said:
P.S. Intelligent responses are the best way to disarm someone. One-liners or "feed the troll" doesn't really do anything.
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Perhaps you should heed your own advice about intelligent posts, you have contributed quite a bit of rubbish in your short tenure here.
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
The real answer is because pharmacy was originally not much of a research profession, but a technical profession. The major state public schools were the first to open up schools of pharmacy. These old, established schools are the leaders today in research, grant money, quality of graduates, and quality of education. The reason the Ivy schools don't have programs is because they couldn't compete with the established schools. Harvard wouldn't want their shiny new pharmacy program outdone by schools whose main university aren't tier 1 schools. And if they opened one up, it would be. So they don't.

That's the real reason...if you actually cared.

And Ivy schools are for douchebags that didn't have a childhood and just overachieved in high school, anyway.
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I agree with the part about state schools and that ivy leagues are focused on research and education which are what garner the most respect and recognition. Just a thought though...if Harvard opened up a pharmacy college, don't you think they could easily pick up top students. I'm sure they would be knocking down the doors to get into that program. Also, I'm assuming that state institutions can get themselves on the map by putting up a pharmacy school. Also, it makes them more recognizable. What are your thoughts?
 
RxMTM said:
I agree with the part about state schools and that ivy leagues are focused on research and education which are what garner the most respect and recognition.
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Not in the South. Football rules.

By the way that's not what WVU is saying. He's saying Ivy hasn't opened pharmacy school because they didn't want to get embarrassed by already established pharmacy schools such as UCSF, USC, UT, UMich, UMn etc.

Just a thought though...if Harvard opened up a pharmacy college, don't you think they could easily pick up top students. I'm sure they would be knocking down the doors to get into that program.
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What established and traditional 70 pharmacy schools in the country don't have their doors get knocked down by top students?

Also, I'm assuming that state institutions can get themselves on the map by putting up a pharmacy school. Also, it makes them more recognizable. What are your thoughts?
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Most de facto "the state universities" already have a pharmacy program.
 
maria1oh said:
Columbia university did have a pharmacy BS degree but they got rid of it. They wanted to focus more on the liberal arts. (1829-1976)

Ballard, Charles W. A History of the College of Pharmacy, Columbia University. (New York: Columbia University Press, 1954)
RS111.N48 B21 1954

Rusby, Henry H. The College of Pharmacy of the City of New York. (New York: The Faculty, 1895?)
RS111.N48 R89 1895

Wimmer, Curt P. The College of Pharmacy of the City of New York, included in Columbia University in 1904. (New York: The College of Pharmacy of the City of New York, 1929)
RS111.N48 W71 1929
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I don't have my bookmarks handy, but the college of pharmaceutical sciences lacked the funding to renovate its facilities per ACPE requirements. The college was affiliated with Columbia University but was autonomous with respect to funding and whatnot. Also, the college was offering PharmDs before it closed. Also, UCSD does not need to put itself on the map with a pharmacy school (lolz).
 
Hate to burst all of your bubbles, but pharmacy is not even on those people's radar. You might as well ask why the Ivy League doesn't have beauty schools (although at least one has a cooking school).
 
Momrowgal said:
Hate to burst all of your bubbles, but pharmacy is not even on those people's radar. You might as well ask why the Ivy League doesn't have beauty schools (although at least one has a cooking school).
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What bubble? I don't want to be associated with those silver spoon sumbitches.
 
Momrowgal said:
Hate to burst all of your bubbles, but pharmacy is not even on those people's radar. You might as well ask why the Ivy League doesn't have beauty schools (although at least one has a cooking school).
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This actually makes sense.:)
 
It's because Ivy league schools are very old. They have been around so long that there is a ton of politics involved. I think your asking why some professions like law or medicine are and pharmacy is not, correct? Lets not forget, when most of these ivy schools were created we didnt even have penicillin. Doctors couldnt do much more than sit beside the patient and comfort them unless they had an open wound or a broken limb. Fast forward to 2010 and many more diseases and conditions may be treated. Every family has a medicine cabinet full of Rx's. In todays world people are much more likely to get into medical trouble than legal trouble. So maybe this trend will change.

Also you cant even compare ivey league law programs (make up a minimal % of lawyers) with regular law programs (most lawyers). Again a lot of politics are involved here. This is apples and oranges. I'd like to see the #'s and pay. Most ivey league grad's would find a real lawyer's job as child's play. They should be considered 2 different occupations.
 
indebtpharmd said:
It's because Ivy league schools are very old. They have been around so long that there is a ton of politics involved. I think your asking why some professions like law or medicine are and pharmacy is not, correct? Lets not forget, when most of these ivy schools were created we didnt even have penicillin. Doctors couldnt do much more than sit beside the patient and comfort them unless they had an open wound or a broken limb. Fast forward to 2010 and many more diseases and conditions may be treated. Every family has a medicine cabinet full of Rx's. In todays world people are much more likely to get into medical trouble than legal trouble. So maybe this trend will change.

Also you cant even compare ivey league law programs (make up a minimal % of lawyers) with regular law programs (most lawyers). Again a lot of politics are involved here. This is apples and oranges. I'd like to see the #'s and pay. Most ivey league grad's would find a real lawyer's job as child's play. They should be considered 2 different occupations.
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Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
 
Praziquantel86 said:
Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
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Harvard, Yale, Princeton... all established well before 1750. Penicillin, 1928. Not only that but penicillin was saved for those in the service until after WWII. How does this not make sense??? Pharmacy is a young field that has only developed because of recent advancements in technology. My point was its a great field to be in, but young.

and yea a family court lawyer making 70k a year is equivalent to an ivey league grad working for a fortune 500 company:rolleyes:
 
indebtpharmd said:
Harvard, Yale, Princeton... all established well before 1750. Penicillin, 1928. Not only that but penicillin was saved for those in the service until after WWII. How does this not make sense??? Pharmacy is a young field that has only developed because of recent advancements in technology. My point was its a great field to be in, but young.

and yea a family court lawyer making 70k a year is equivalent to an ivey league grad working for a fortune 500 company:rolleyes:
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Seriously? Pharmacy, as a distinct profession, dates back to at least the 10th century, if not earlier. I'm not going to rehash what everyone here has said, but there are some good points made throughout the thread.

And your lawyer argument - not sure how it's germane to the discussion at hand.
 
Praziquantel86 said:
Seriously? Pharmacy, as a distinct profession, dates back to at least the 10th century, if not earlier. I'm not going to rehash what everyone here has said, but there are some good points made throughout the thread.

And your lawyer argument - not sure how it's germane to the discussion at hand.
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Right because pharmacy is even remotely close to what it evovled from. Save your herbs and spices talk for the GNC, because that is not pharmacy. Welcome to the 21st century bud.
 
With the trend in using "natural" treatments (herbs, supplements, and the like), you could say that pharmacy is going back to its roots (pun intended) :laugh:
 
Why does Princeton not have a medical school? Why are there only three dental schools at "Ivy" institutions? Because it was considered a glorified vocational program in the 19th century? If it was good enough for Harvard, why not Cornell?

I don't know about the prerogatives of individual institutions, but alluding to some collective Ivy League "politics" is B.S.
 
Praziquantel86 said:
Seriously? Pharmacy, as a distinct profession, dates back to at least the 10th century, if not earlier. I'm not going to rehash what everyone here has said, but there are some good points made throughout the thread.

And your lawyer argument - not sure how it's germane to the discussion at hand.
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Pharmacy has been around for awhile. The thing is that pharmacy has not been respected until recently. I think it was sometime around 1997, + or minus a few years, when the PharmD became a requirement for practice. So possibly this is a reason why ivy leagues haven't gone ahead with this project yet. Also, PharmD research is pretty scarce. According to one article, PharmD research rakes in less than 0.5% of grant money. I'm not sure if my thoughts are completely causal but I'm throwing them out there.
 
Princeton does not have any professional schools because it is liberal arts focused and more undergraduate-focused.

UPenn and Harvard, on the other hand, are exactly the opposite. UPenn is overwhelmingly the most pre-professional school in the ivy league with strong business and nursing programs (amongst others)
 
indebtpharmd said:
Right because pharmacy is even remotely close to what it evovled from. Save your herbs and spices talk for the GNC, because that is not pharmacy. Welcome to the 21st century bud.
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OK, I'm wrong. There were no legitimate medications prior to the discovery of penicillin, and everything has always been mass-produced. Forgot about that.
 
Praziquantel86 said:
OK, I'm wrong. There were no legitimate medications prior to the discovery of penicillin, and everything has always been mass-produced. Forgot about that.
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:smuggrin:

That's right... the original Coca Cola really shouldn't be considered a drug.. tho the main active ingredient is still used as a potent vasocontrictor.. or for a recreational use.. illegally.
 
IVY trained physicians in the early years before Philadelphia College of Pharmacy, and after probably practiced pharmacy by mixing and dispensing their own medications. Perhaps there was a thin line separating the profession.

But it was 1951 and the Durham-Humphrey Amendment that finally distinguished the difference between pharmacy and medicine.

By then, Ivy schools weren't interested in starting a pharmacy program.
 
Argentium said:
Princeton does not have any professional schools because it is liberal arts focused and more undergraduate-focused.

UPenn and Harvard, on the other hand, are exactly the opposite. UPenn is overwhelmingly the most pre-professional school in the ivy league with strong business and nursing programs (amongst others)
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Yet Princeton is "tier 1" Carnegie and has various professional degree programs along with doctoral programs...
 
Sine Cura said:
Yet Princeton is "tier 1" Carnegie and has various professional degree programs along with doctoral programs...
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Just because they don't have professional schools doesn't mean they don't award doctorates ... Princeton also has highly competitive graduate schools. And on a similar note, read an interesting thing on wikipedia today ...

"According to Forbes Magazine, 90% of billionaires with M.B.A.s obtained their master's degree from one of three Ivy League schools: Harvard, Columbia or Penn's Wharton School.[4]"
 
Similarly, being undergraduate-focused by no means precludes the existence of professional schools. I don't think they ever came out and said "having such and such professional school would screw with our mission statement."
 
All 9 of the Supreme Court justices have gone to either Harvard or Yale law... Pretty amazing, but shouldn't be necessary.

As an Ivy graduate, it would be nice to see an Ivy League pharmacy school. But as an esteemed Ivy League graduate once pointed out- "the Ivy league doesn't have a monopoly on wisdom". But some of the schools delve into the pharmacological issues at hand, and more theoretical issues versus pharmacy practice.
 
Lest we not have the proper perspective, "Ivy League" originally described a now largely irrelevant athletic conference and the term was eventually taken to a be a kind of antonomasia (or whatever the appropriate term is). I never heard anyone affiliated with Harvard boasting about the Ivy League through Cornell in college basketball like SEC never-rans reppin' that conference via LSU and UF in college football.
 
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