ivy, veteran, banker, but terrible GPA

[Rontanamo]

Hey guys. This is my first post here.

I've finally redecided to go to medical school. I'm looking at doing a post bac but wanted some advice on how to pursue this.

Some background first. I graduated from Princeton. I have a terrible GPA, ~2.6. I was even suspended. During that time I joined the Army, served with a special operations team, and did a year in Iraq. When I came back - my grades improved marginally, probably a 3.2 post deployment. I ended up working on Wall Street as an investment banker but really want to get into medical school. I've never taken the MCAT. My ACT was 32 in 2005. Before I was suspended I was pre-med and my science gpa is probably a bit lower. I got a D in Orgo and failed Physics.

Any chance? Advice? What post bac programs do I even have a shot at?

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[litmajor]

Retake all your Cs and below, and apply DO and maybe your local MD schools. That's your best bet. Raising a very low GPA on the amount of credits it takes to do a BA is almost impossible and will take years. DO (AACOMAS) replaces old grades, while MD (AMCAS) only averages the old grade and the new. You can really shine up your GPA with grade replacement on AACOMAS. GPA and MCAT are the numbers that get you in the door - without that, even with your very broad and good set of experiences, they won't look at you. You might even just be autoscreened out. Also, study like a beast for the MCAT and crush it FIRST TIME (no retakes please. Kill it first try).

 

[Goro]

100% agree. And many thanks for your service to our country!

Retake all your Cs and below, and apply DO and maybe your local MD schools. That's your best bet. Raising a very low GPA on the amount of credits it takes to do a BA is almost impossible and will take years. DO (AACOMAS) replaces old grades, while MD (AMCAS) only averages the old grade and the new. You can really shine up your GPA with grade replacement on AACOMAS. GPA and MCAT are the numbers that get you in the door - without that, even with your very broad and good set of experiences, they won't look at you. You might even just be autoscreened out. Also, study like a beast for the MCAT and crush it FIRST TIME (no retakes please. Kill it first try).

 

[Rontanamo]

Hey! Thanks for your replies! I appreciate the advice. The only thing is I've really got my heart set on doing a MD program. Would doing a post bac program at Colombia work for me? Could I even get in?

 

[Lawgiver]

yeah, just give a shot what do you have to lose? and with your background I think grades and scores will not matter as much.

 

[rikudo]

In addition to above, aim to specifically cultivate relationships with your Orgo and Physics professors. An outstanding LOR from your orgo/physics profs goes a long way to quell doubts of poor aptitude. Consider taking national exams such as the ACS to further support you application.

I was in a similar situation. Came back from a 3.0 undergrad, vet, great life experiences. Starting at UW this fall.

 

[Rontanamo]

Thanks for the advice! I'm looking into post bac programs right now. I have a few questions.

What are some of the easier programs to get into (remember my 2.6)?

Is improving my undergrad GPA up to a 3.0 going to be sufficient with a high MCAT score and my story?

Also, what does disadvantaged mean? I was a foster kid and grew up rurally. But I'm quite white and definitely male.

Thanks again!

 

[rikudo]

Thanks for the advice! I'm looking into post bac programs right now. I have a few questions.

What are some of the easier programs to get into (remember my 2.6)?

Is improving my undergrad GPA up to a 3.0 going to be sufficient with a high MCAT score and my story?

Also, what does disadvantaged mean? I was a foster kid and grew up rurally. But I'm quite white and definitely male.

Thanks again!

I did all my post-bac work at a community college to save $ (Physics, Orgo, Cell Bio). Go to any accredited school that will accept you. Remember you don't have to enroll in a specific program, just take classes as you see fit. The main goal is to get your GPA up. Take science and math classes that prep you for the MCAT and boost your science GPA.

3.0 should be the absolute minimum. Many schools will autoscreen out anything lower. Shoot for 3.3-3.4 if possible.

Disadvantaged status is primarily based on parental income/education. Foster care and rural background will look very good too.

 

[Rontanamo]

Thanks Rikudo. I'd love to hear other opinions.

 

[Doctor Bob]

Would doing a post bac program at Colombia work for me? Could I even get in?

The best way to answer that question is to check with the admissions office at Columbia. The opinions and advice of internet strangers are no substitute for a quick phone call to the definitive source.

and with your background I think grades and scores will not matter as much.

Oh I wouldn't go that far. The background may help come interview time. But the grades and scores are what get you the interview and keep your application from getting screened out. I talk with a lot of AD people and former AD people who think that their military career will completely offset their application deficiencies. Flat out, that is not the case. As with everyone else, the grades and scores are the most important thing.

What are some of the easier programs to get into (remember my 2.6)?
Is improving my undergrad GPA up to a 3.0 going to be sufficient with a high MCAT score and my story?

Look, first take the MCAT and retake the classes with bad grades. Right now we can't give you any useful information because we have an incomplete yet bleak picture. Because right now you're a terrible applicant, based on the things that schools see during the initial screen of your application. You've got a bad GPA, worse science GPA, a suspension, and no MCAT. So fix the 3 things in that list you can fix (the suspension will be fixed by the passage of time). Then come back with new numbers and we can give you more useful information.

A common refrain in these kinds of threads is "I have bad grades but I'm gonna DESTROY the MCAT". Historical trends would suggest otherwise. Don't make plans based on imaginary and daydream level MCAT scores. Take the test and find out what you actually score. If it's high, great. If it's not, then make other plans.

 

[efex101]

which special operations team? which group?

 

[hopefuldoc97239]

...The only thing is I've really got my heart set on doing a MD program...

What makes you set on an MD program rather than a DO program?

 

[ridethecliche]

which special operations team? which group?

Confused why this is relevant?

 

[efex101]

relevant to us never mind

 

[sazerac]

Hey! Thanks for your replies! I appreciate the advice. The only thing is I've really got my heart set on doing a MD program.

Do you want to be a physician treating sick people, or do you want letters after your name? Something to ponder: I go to a US MD school (my averaged undergrad GPA was higher than yours) and guess what, some of my instructors in both pre-clinical and clinical years have a DO degree. It isn't even noticable. The more you climb this ladder, the less those two letters mean.

 

[Mad Jack]

To even have the smallest shot at MD, you'd have to get your cGPA and sGPA over 3.1, which will probably take a couple years, then get a new MCAT that is close to where your last one was percentile-wise. You could save yourself a couple years by going DO, and have damn near infinitely higher chances of admission.

 

[Doctor Bob]

then get a new MCAT that is close to where your last one was percentile-wise.

If I read the first post correctly, the OP has never taken the MCAT. That 32 was from the ACT... a college admission exam.

 

[Mad Jack]

If I read the first post correctly, the OP has never taken the MCAT. That 32 was from the ACT... a college admission exam.

Lol, I was just skimming through and saw MCAT and 32 close to each other and assumed. Op, your ACT is less than meaningless in regard to this process.

 

[Rontanamo]

Look, first take the MCAT and retake the classes with bad grades. Right now we can't give you any useful information because we have an incomplete yet bleak picture. Because right now you're a terrible applicant, based on the things that schools see during the initial screen of your application. You've got a bad GPA, worse science GPA, a suspension, and no MCAT. So fix the 3 things in that list you can fix (the suspension will be fixed by the passage of time). Then come back with new numbers and we can give you more useful information.

By programs I meant post bac programs - not actual medical school. I don't want to take the MCAT right now. Some post-bacs prefer you not to have taken it. I realize that you can't give me any meaningful advice on med school admission at this point . I am concerned with the first step, getting into the best possible post-bac given my stats (that probably wasnt clear before).

Lol, I was just skimming through and saw MCAT and 32 close to each other and assumed. Op, your ACT is less than meaningless in regard to this process.

The process I am looking at currently is getting into a good post-bac, they ask for ACT scores and thats why I have it in the post.

The DO/MD debate isnt even relevant to me at this point. So to get this back on track, what are some viable post-bac programs for me?

 

[hopefuldoc97239]

...The DO/MD debate isnt even relevant to me at this point...

It's a discussion that has to come up any time someone is asking about their chances or what steps they should take next. If someone cares more about the MD letters than getting through med school quickly they get different answers than someone who just wants to be "Dr." regardless of MD vs. DO letters.

 

[Doctor Bob]

By programs I meant post bac programs - not actual medical school. I don't want to take the MCAT right now. Some post-bacs prefer you not to have taken it. I realize that you can't give me any meaningful advice on med school admission at this point . I am concerned with the first step, getting into the best possible post-bac given my stats (that probably wasnt clear before)

Ahh, I gotcha.
Then disregard my advice. I thought you were proposing to take a very ill-advised route (which many on SDN do).
Good luck in your future endeavors.

 

[NonTradJp]

Yeah I was a bit confused too reading I thought you were asking about what to do right now to get into med school. In terms of post bacc, I can offer my experiences. I had a comparatively low gpa from undergrad. And I had a family so I was not able to move for post-bacc. The kicker was that I could not qualify for any local post-bacc programs. None.

However, I took classes on my own at extension. Nearly everyone in my classes were in a post-bacc either for medicine, dental, pharm, PT, or related fields. So it may depend on where you live, but if you cannot get into a program (a lot do have gpa cutoffs) you can take the classes on your own. Do the ones other post-bacc students are doing IMO. Also did you look at the list of post-baccs from AAMC: https://services.aamc.org/postbac/ . Some of them list the requirements including gpa.

I'm sorry if my post is not helpful since I cannot rank post-baccs to give you the best chance. But if it's connected to a big school, I think that helps. The bottomline is that it probably helps very little compared to the weight of just grades. If you PM me I'll tell you were I took classes, which classes, and the results of my self created post-bacc.

 

[Rontanamo]

Just got into Columbia post bacc. Still waiting on Wash U and UPenn.

 

[atomi]

What makes you set on an MD program rather than a DO program?

Are you serious? MD opens way more doors.

Do you want to be a physician treating sick people, or do you want letters after your name?

Or are you absolutely sure you don't want to train in plastic surgery, radiation oncology, CT surgery, urology, neurosurgery, gastroenterology, cardiology, radiology, hematology/oncology, or ENT?