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Guys, you should all bow your heads, close your eyes and take a moment of silence to appreciate the wondrous good fortune you have to be able to work in a time when $200-300/hr is the norm
I agree - despite the many (and well publicized on SDN) downsides of our field and profession, those of us in EM are indeed blessed. I for one would definitely do it all over again and most days enjoy my job.

But, for $100/hr I'd do something else. We earn our pay.

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How else are you supposed to pay for medical school? Not everyone has rich parents.


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I can tell you that I don't have rich parents. They paid for my car insurance, but essentially nothing else. Go to the cheapest school you can get into. Drive a POS car. Don't eat out. Share a crappy apartment. Work any part-time job you can (TA, MCAT tutor, whatever). I made it out with just under 100K in debt which I paid off during residency (working spouse in residency + moonlighting every day off).
 
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I can tell you that I don't have rich parents. They paid for my car insurance, but essentially nothing else. Go to the cheapest school you can get into. Drive a POS car. Don't eat out. Share a crappy apartment. Work any part-time job you can (TA, MCAT tutor, whatever). I made it out with just under 100K in debt which I paid off during residency (working spouse in residency + moonlighting every day off).

I didn't do it quite so hardcore and will still be graduating from residency with a decent bit of debt, however, I completely agree with the above. Go to a state school if you can. Work a side job during medical school. I tutored and worked as a TA. Realize you don't have any money and act like a responsible adult who's broke. Yeah, that means you can't take that awesome vacation that all your friends are going on. Or go! That's fine. But if you go on those vacations and don't work during school/residency and then complain about how life isn't fair, you aren't going to get a lot of sympathy here, nor do you deserve it.
 
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I didn't do it quite so hardcore and will still be graduating from residency with a decent bit of debt, however, I completely agree with the above. Go to a state school if you can. Work a side job during medical school. I tutored and worked as a TA. Realize you don't have any money and act like a responsible adult who's broke. Yeah, that means you can't take that awesome vacation that all your friends are going on. Or go! That's fine. But if you go on those vacations and don't work during school/residency and then complain about how life isn't fair, you aren't going to get a lot of sympathy here, nor do you deserve it.

Agree entirely. If you put pictures of you skiing during med school and residency and it's not a family vacation paid for by your folks, you did this to yourself.

In the words of Dave Ramsey, "Live like no one else now, so you can live like no one else later."
 
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Agree entirely. If you put pictures of you skiing during med school and residency and it's not a family vacation paid for by your folks, you did this to yourself.

In the words of Dave Ramsey, "Live like no one else now, so you can live like no one else later."
Beans and rice, rice and beans.

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I can tell you that I don't have rich parents. They paid for my car insurance, but essentially nothing else. Go to the cheapest school you can get into. Drive a POS car. Don't eat out. Share a crappy apartment. Work any part-time job you can (TA, MCAT tutor, whatever). I made it out with just under 100K in debt which I paid off during residency (working spouse in residency + moonlighting every day off).

Graduating medical school with less than 100k in debt is impossible without a scholarship, family/spousal support, and/or savings. Even if you goto a cheap school. And many people only get accepted to one school so it's not like they have much choice.


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Graduating medical school with less than 100k in debt is impossible without a scholarship, family/spousal support, and/or savings. Even if you goto a cheap school. And many people only get accepted to one school so it's not like they have much choice.


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I wasn’t going to say it, but glad someone else spoke up. Someone once told me that manners dictate that you should never discuss another person's indebtedness, at least when it comes to medical education. Something, something…religion, politics, and debt.

One of the great life lessons of my medical school education has been that opportunity has a lot to do with upbringing. Without getting into the weeds, my overwhelming experience has been that the least indebted among my peers almost always start out with sizable advantages. Even worse, many of them have no idea how privileged (hate this word) they are. Behind almost every rant about being thrifty is some kid with mom and pop’s visa tucked in their wallet, a fully paid off car, and parent-paid health insurance. Dig a little deeper and you’d be surprised how many medical students get cash infusions on the regular from parents well into their late 20s. A lot of these students actually don’t consider this “help” because it’s justified as a type of baseline subsidy, perhaps because it’s tied to some one-time event. Your parents giving you $1k for board fees, or paying a portion of your rent, or buying your gas is all called parental support. Let’s be clear, there is nothing wrong with this at all. BUT, it is help. There is a tremendous amount of intergenerational wealth among the cohort of students that become physicians, at least at my school. Sure, the vast majority are not driving Audis and BMWs, but wealth allows one to do things that people of other means cannot. It allows risk taking. A lot of the “thrifty” students at my school will readily admit that, if and when the car breaks down, dad calls in a credit card. They can live cheaply because there is no requirement for financial reserve. They can risk taking the lowest amount of loans because they have a readily available bailout from parents if their car breaks down, a laptop fails, etc. Students with family are playing an entirely different game. Ever try to pay for childcare? I have a lot of respect for these student's parents because maybe one day that can be my kid. But, I think it’s the definition of disingenuous when these same students act like they’re “poor” and lecture others about finances. I had a student once talk at length about how middle class he was and then, in the same breath, mention that it was the height of financial burden because his dad was only able to pay a semester of medical school.

But, I mean, good for these guys. Their situation is very rare. I did the math using the average tuition and fees for the 10 cheapest public medical schools in the country and their story is definitely impressive, mainly because it means that they likely lived significantly below the poverty level throughout all 4 years of medical school. I was a TA in my younger years: those jobs typically pay minimum wage, if anything at all. I had a first career making good money, came to medical school with almost no debt and decent savings, and will leave significantly more indebted. Oh, and I live in a shoe box.

But, I think it's important to note that income is an incentivizing factor (one among many) when people of certain means pick a specialty and, eventually, a locale to practice in. Debt can be crushing for those of us who have to take it on.
 
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I wasn’t going to say it, but glad someone else spoke up. Someone once told me that manners dictate that you should never discuss another person's indebtedness, at least when it comes to medical education. Something, something…religion, politics, and debt.

One of the great life lessons of my medical school education has been that opportunity has a lot to do with upbringing. Without getting into the weeds, my overwhelming experience has been that the least indebted among my peers almost always start out with sizable advantages. Even worse, many of them have no idea how privileged (hate this word) they are. Behind almost every rant about being thrifty is some kid with mom and pop’s visa tucked in their wallet, a fully paid off car, and parent-paid health insurance. Dig a little deeper and you’d be surprised how many medical students get cash infusions on the regular from parents well into their late 20s. A lot of these students actually don’t consider this “help” because it’s justified as a type of baseline subsidy, perhaps because it’s tied to some one-time event. Your parents giving you $1k for board fees, or paying a portion of your rent, or buying your gas is all called parental support. Let’s be clear, there is nothing wrong with this at all. BUT, it is help. There is a tremendous amount of intergenerational wealth among the cohort of students that become physicians, at least at my school. Sure, the vast majority are not driving Audis and BMWs, but wealth allows one to do things that people of other means cannot. It allows risk taking. A lot of the “thrifty” students at my school will readily admit that, if and when the car breaks down, dad calls in a credit card. They can live cheaply because there is no requirement for financial reserve. They can risk taking the lowest amount of loans because they have a readily available bailout from parents if their car breaks down, a laptop fails, etc. Students with family are playing an entirely different game. Ever try to pay for childcare? I have a lot of respect for these student's parents because maybe one day that can be my kid. But, I think it’s the definition of disingenuous when these same students act like they’re “poor” and lecture others about finances. I had a student once talk at length about how middle class he was and then, in the same breath, mention that it was the height of financial burden because his dad was only able to pay a semester of medical school.

But, I mean, good for these guys. Their situation is very rare. I did the math using the average tuition and fees for the 10 cheapest public medical schools in the country and their story is definitely impressive, mainly because it means that they likely lived significantly below the poverty level throughout all 4 years of medical school. I was a TA in my younger years: those jobs typically pay minimum wage, if anything at all. I had a first career making good money, came to medical school with almost no debt and decent savings, and will leave significantly more indebted. Oh, and I live in a shoe box.

But, I think it's important to note that income is an incentivizing factor (one among many) when people of certain means pick a specialty and, eventually, a locale to practice in. Debt can be crushing for those of us who have to take it on.


Agreed that there are people like this - but that's not everyone. My point wasn't to belittle the person who is married with children going through med school or the person who lives in a state without a public med school. My point was to simply say that I routinely hear med students talking about how much debt their taking on while they have the newest iPhone, a newer car, go out to eat for lunch, go out to nice bars and go on vacations.

I went to an in-state public school; I was lucky to have 2 public in-state schools and I went to the cheaper of the two. Like I said, my parents helped me a little, but I mean a LITTLE, not much. Did I have a paid off car? Yes. It cost $800, I paid cash for it and I didn't have AC for a year. My parents paid for my car insurance (because it was a piece of junk it was cheap). I walked to and from class. I didn't just share an apartment, I shared a ROOM. I applied for every scholarship I could. Most were $500 or $1,000; but they add up. I also got a $5,000 and $10,000 scholarship based on academics. I worked in a lab between my first and second year of med school and made a few thousand dollars. I worked as a TA during the year. I tutored undergrads often. I always worked multiple jobs in undergrad, so I worked a ton the last semester and had a couple thousand in the bank. I was married during the final year of med school and my wife made an income, so that helped some, too.

I was lucky in a lot of ways. I didn't have any financial responsibilities for my family; I didn't have any health problems; I didn't have any big, unexpected expenses; I lived in a state with a cheap in-state med school; my parents helped me a little. I'm not denying that I was lucky. Again, my point is just that I see a lot of colleagues bemoaning their indebtedness without taking a look at their lifestyle. Most people aren't willing to share a room, drive a car without AC in the south, go to every interest group for free pizza, etc. Enough little life decisions add up.
 
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