Job hunts and significant others

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Justanothergrad

Counseling Psychologist
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While it is still several months away before job postings for 2017-2018 faculty jobs start to pop up, my significant and I have been discussing how the whole process might play out. I am interested in academia while she wants to enter the world of practice. We are both graduating together and what I've heard is that is a far easier situation to navigate (understandably) than if we were both interested in becoming professors. However, the whole process of finding jobs near one another seems difficult.

I'm curious about experiences and stories, tips, or other advice about finding jobs/post docs together. How have others handled this couples aspect of academic job hunts?

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Yes, it will be easier to job hunt when only one of you is looking for an academic job. Practice opportunities are more plentiful than tenure track academic jobs; therefore you are the limiting factor, in a sense. You both need to be comfortable with this reality. Negotiate parameters that will keep you and your partner reasonably happy (geography, community size, etc.) without restricting your job search too much. In other words, try not to pull your partner into a situation in which you get offered a tenure track job in, say, Alaska, and she has to be the one to call a deal-breaker. The same is true if your partner has specific job-related desires (ie, wants to work with a certain population or in an institutional setting). Be realistic, but fair. Concessions will need to be made. On the bright side, dual career couples do this all the time.
 
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I am wondering if you have discussed a college counseling center as practice opportunity? If your partner was interested in this it could make things easier...just a thought.
 
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Yes, it will be easier to job hunt when only one of you is looking for an academic job. Practice opportunities are more plentiful than tenure track academic jobs; therefore you are the limiting factor, in a sense. You both need to be comfortable with this reality. Negotiate parameters that will keep you and your partner reasonably happy (geography, community size, etc.) without restricting your job search too much. In other words, try not to pull your partner into a situation in which you get offered a tenure track job in, say, Alaska, and she has to be the one to call a deal-breaker. The same is true if your partner has specific job-related desires (ie, wants to work with a certain population or in an institutional setting). Be realistic, but fair. Concessions will need to be made. On the bright side, dual career couples do this all the time.
That's exactly what we're planning on doing and we're setting pretty general and fair to both of us. As you said, Alaska, North Dakota, and a few other frigid zones would be some deal breakers for her. Do you know how folks manage the coupled post-doc search at the same time? It seems that it would be very easy for us to wind up on opposite ends of the country doing two separate job hunts or is there time between interview offerings for academic positions and post-doc applications to allow some adjustment to emphasize those areas?

I am wondering if you have discussed a college counseling center as practice opportunity? If your partner was interested in this it could make things easier...just a thought.
We've talked about it although her interests align more with VAs and other private practice. I wonder how often are positions affiliated with the school (such as counseling centers) viable?
 
It seems that it would be very easy for us to wind up on opposite ends of the country doing two separate job hunts or is there time between interview offerings for academic positions and post-doc applications to allow some adjustment to emphasize those areas?

Not sure this answers your question, but in general, the timeframe for 4-year uni/college academic job applications and interviews starts earlier than for postdoc applications. Deadlines for TT jobs usually start around October 1. So if you were able to get interviews at academic institutions you could narrow down a clinical postdoc search to those areas. Conceivably, if you received an offer during late fall/early winter you would still have time to submit postdoc applications at nearby sites. This isn't a fail-safe strategy though, since some academic job searches start later (more for SLACs and smaller institutions than R1/R2 institutions). If you haven't already looked at the psychology job search wiki you should: http://psychjobsearch.wikidot.com/
 
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Also keep in mind that you can (to some degree) put pressure on the academic departments to help find something for her. Spousal hires are common with both partners being academics, but they can often be quite helpful finding positions for a partner even if not a direct hire - especially in the same field. There are likely more than a few alumni nearby with private practices who may have an extra office. If there is an affiliated AMC there may be opportunities for clinical work there. If its not a salaried position and is based on billing, it really doesn't cost them much besides space - these positions are not super-difficult to find.
 
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Thanks. I wondered how much help departments could be with position searches outside of the school during job negotiation. I appreciate all the input.
It varies greatly. I know of instances where positions were made for the spouse bc they were either a strong hire or the primary higher was valuable enough that money was allocated.

I'm less familiar w. non-academic situations, but I'm sure it happens.
 
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Although it's generally easier to land an academic and clinical job in the same area than to land dual academic jobs, clinical jobs and most clinical post-docs won't follow the same timeline that you'd be on while applying for academic jobs. Unless you get something in writing for two jobs at the same institution, chances are you'll have to decide on a job offer before knowing for sure a job will be in place for your partner.

Of course, you can have a sense of the prospects of jobs for your partner depending on the area, different settings your partner is interested in (e.g., state hospital), how far either of you is willing to commute, etc.

My partner and I were lucky enough to get dual academic jobs (whole other story in itself), and my biggest piece of advice is probably pretty obvious: be as supportive and honest with each other as possible. It's a stressful time for sure with all the uncertainty. At the same time, you both need to be honest about the types of jobs you want as well as the ones you can accept. It's one thing to accept a job that's less than a perfect fit for the sake of your partner. If you talk yourself into a position or location you know you won't be happy in, though, you're setting yourself up for more stress and the likelihood that you'll be back at Square One trying to find jobs near each other again.

Also, I'd recommend your partner research possible post-doc/clinical opportunities in an area once you receive a phone/Skype interview invitation (I'm referring to post-docs outside of formalized ones with specific deadlines; of course those will need to be researched well in advance!). Timelines vary, but that should give enough time to get a sense of job prospects in general, to reach out to any colleagues in the area, etc. Waiting until a campus interview or job offer doesn't give you enough time, and if you're applying all over the place, it's overwhelming researching every single area an application is going to. Cast a wide net if you can.

My partner and I also shared a spreadsheet with job applications and deadlines so that we could see whenever our searches were overlapping. This also made a quick look at job prospects for desirable jobs for the other partner easier once one of us got a job interview.
 
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It varies greatly. I know of instances where positions were made for the spouse bc they were either a strong hire or the primary higher was valuable enough that money was allocated.

I'm less familiar w. non-academic situations, but I'm sure it happens.

I can't stress this enough: if a university is offering work opportunities for your partner, academic or not, get it in writing. Administrations change. Allocations of resources change. If they're enticing you with job opportunities for both, make sure it's part of the written agreement. Vague assurances of clinical/adjunct opportunities for your partner mean nothing once you've signed.
 
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Although it's generally easier to land an academic and clinical job in the same area than to land dual academic jobs, clinical jobs and most clinical post-docs won't follow the same timeline that you'd be on while applying for academic jobs. Unless you get something in writing for two jobs at the same institution, chances are you'll have to decide on a job offer before knowing for sure a job will be in place for your partner.

Of course, you can have a sense of the prospects of jobs for your partner depending on the area, different settings your partner is interested in (e.g., state hospital), how far either of you is willing to commute, etc.

My partner and I were lucky enough to get dual academic jobs (whole other story in itself), and my biggest piece of advice is probably pretty obvious: be as supportive and honest with each other as possible. It's a stressful time for sure with all the uncertainty. At the same time, you both need to be honest about the types of jobs you want as well as the ones you can accept. It's one thing to accept a job that's less than a perfect fit for the sake of your partner. If you talk yourself into a position or location you know you won't be happy in, though, you're setting yourself up for more stress and the likelihood that you'll be back at Square One trying to find jobs near each other again.

Also, I'd recommend your partner research possible post-doc/clinical opportunities in an area once you receive a phone/Skype interview invitation (I'm referring to post-docs outside of formalized ones with specific deadlines; of course those will need to be researched well in advance!). Timelines vary, but that should give enough time to get a sense of job prospects in general, to reach out to any colleagues in the area, etc. Waiting until a campus interview or job offer doesn't give you enough time, and if you're applying all over the place, it's overwhelming researching every single area an application is going to. Cast a wide net if you can.

My partner and I also shared a spreadsheet with job applications and deadlines so that we could see whenever our searches were overlapping. This also made a quick look at job prospects for desirable jobs for the other partner easier once one of us got a job interview.

This is so helpful, thank you! My husband and I are both in psychology PhD programs (I'm clinical, he's not) and we'll be looking for dual faculty jobs in a few years. Nice to know there are others out there who have made it :)
 
This is so helpful, thank you! My husband and I are both in psychology PhD programs (I'm clinical, he's not) and we'll be looking for dual faculty jobs in a few years. Nice to know there are others out there who have made it :)

Similar background here: I'm clinical, while my spouse is a different discipline of psychology. The dual faculty search is as hard as advertised. It essentially took us four cycles to land the dual TT package, and I'm still sometimes astonished everything fell into place to make it happen. I'd be more than happy to share any experiences or answer any questions here or privately.
 
Does anyone have experience with a dual career but spouse not in psychology? Im wrapping up my internship in clinical and my husband is doing a postdoc in biology. Although we aren't applying this year -- we will be when I'm done with fellowship.

I've heard mixed things. Is it easier/harder when the SO is in a different field and therefore housed in a different department?
 
I've heard mixed things. Is it easier/harder when the SO is in a different field and therefore housed in a different department?

It varies depending on the fields you're in and what the market looks like for those fields. In general I think it's a little easier since any given department will only have so many lines in a hiring year and you will not be effectively competing for the same job. I've known several couples with appointments in different departments in the same institution, but only one couple with positions in the same department (and only one of them had a tenure-track job).
 
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It varies depending on the fields you're in and what the market looks like for those fields. In general I think it's a little easier since any given department will only have so many lines in a hiring year and you will not be effectively competing for the same job. I've known several couples with appointments in different departments in the same institution, but only one couple with positions in the same department (and only one of them had a tenure-track job).

There are definitely obstacles both ways, but with a little luck I think it's easier getting dual hires in different departments because it's more likely to be financially feasible. One, a lot of university departments have larger budgets than Psych Departments and will be more likely to have financial wiggle room. Two, sometimes it's set up where the spouse's department doesn't have to support the entire salary (it may be split with the Psych Department or the Dean's office), so they can essentially get someone on discount.

On the flip side, this outside department may not be eager to bring in someone they hadn't looked for in the first place, even at a discount. Especially if the departments aren't closely tied, the other department may see no need to help out a department they don't know. Essentially, you have to find another department to play ball. If you're attempting a spousal hire in the same department, they already are invested in getting you and are more likely to be specifically interested in bringing your spouse on board, but they're also more likely to be too financially strapped to make it happen.

Although my spouse and I are both in a Psych Department, one advantage we had is that my spouse's interests are interdisciplinary, so I presented multiple departments she would be able to fit. Fortunately the Psych Department (the best fit and our preference) was determined to make it work and was able to open up space for both of us.
 
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Any wisdom on how much to bring up inquiring about job markets/job opportunities in surrounding areas for significant other (non-academic) during job search?

It's probably going to come up naturally from the faculty themselves. Many will tell you about the area if you're not from there and/or will reference what their family or partners do through casual conversation.

I'd generally advise against asking about very specific job markets because if they say there's nothing, they may have concerns in their head about whether your family would actually stay. I mean, chance are fairly low this would impact the decision, but with so many stars needing to align right to get an academic job offer these days, why risk it? More general questions like what are the major business in the area outside of the university are fine. Otherwise, I'd do the research outside the interview and just listen to whatever faculty bring up.

One interview I had was in an area completely unfamiliar to me. I had the evening free and decided to go to a local bar for a drink. I actually ended up chatting with the bartender and the person next to me (once they mentioned working somewhere that wasn't the university) about the area and learned way more about the area than I'd anticipated.
 
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