Jobs in Alaska and big bucks in "less desirable" spots

[gman33]

I was talking to a resident the other day.
He told me there are opportunities for EM docs in Alaska that pay crazy money.

If you commit to a 3 year stint, they pay you $800k/year.
Not sure I believe this is true.

Anyone hear of opportunities like this?

I know some less desirable places will pay big bucks to attract EM trainied docs.
Not that I have any great desire to live in Alaska, but I wouldn't mind moving somewhere for a few years after training if that would allow me to sock away a bunch of money for retirement and pay off some student loans.

This should be about the last thing on my mind right now.
Just wondering what may be out there that I never heard of before.

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[UnderwaterDoc]

Have not heard about this, but having just watched The Grey I would be polishing my shooting/wolf wrestling skills before a move up there.

In all seriousness, these jobs are out there. We got a talk from one of our attendings about working at military bases overseas which pay 300K tax free (!!) for 6 months of work. Also working in Dubai where equally exorbitant salaries exist.

I'll be looking into these a year from now, I need to erase my 220K 6.8% "mortgage".

 

[Groove]

Would the military base assignment be if you were a military physician? Or are they contracting civilian MD's to staff the ED? I'd be very interested in how he came about learning about this job.

The Alaskan one is interesting too. Honestly, I have such big loans to pay that I would actually consider that in order to destroy my debt burden.

 

[Deuce Doc]

Would the military base assignment be if you were a military physician? Or are they contracting civilian MD's to staff the ED?

I haven't heard about the existence of $300k EM positions at overseas bases, but you would not make close to that much as a military EM doc. So if the salary is for real, it is a civilian position (contractor or GS).

As far as finding contract positions, the guys that we have working at my medical group (non-physicians) work for a contract company that searches for military positions that they are qualified for. I don't know if the situation would be the same for docs.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

I was talking to a resident the other day.
He told me there are opportunities for EM docs in Alaska that pay crazy money.

If you commit to a 3 year stint, they pay you $800k/year.
Not sure I believe this is true.

Anyone hear of opportunities like this?

I know some less desirable places will pay big bucks to attract EM trainied docs.
Not that I have any great desire to live in Alaska, but I wouldn't mind moving somewhere for a few years after training if that would allow me to sock away a bunch of money for retirement and pay off some student loans.

This should be about the last thing on my mind right now.
Just wondering what may be out there that I never heard of before.

I'd do AK for 3 years if it got me 800K/year. then bail.

 

[Rendar5]

I'll take the job now. Forget sunny FL or TX for me.

 

[UnderwaterDoc]

Would the military base assignment be if you were a military physician? Or are they contracting civilian MD's to staff the ED? I'd be very interested in how he came about learning about this job.

The Alaskan one is interesting too. Honestly, I have such big loans to pay that I would actually consider that in order to destroy my debt burden.

As far as I know, is for civilian docs, and you are required to be there for the entire 6 months with no vacation. I will try to find out more about it.

 

[Chip N Sawbones]

Bringing you the weather report, it's 45 below this afternoon here in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska. It's so cold that you can't touch a piece of metal without burning your hand. It's so cold that a glass of vodka will freeze solid. It's so cold that if I turn the heater in my cabin off, it won't ever start again until the outside temperature warms up to a mere 20 below. This isn't even as cold as Alaska gets. I'll ask the doctors in my ED what they make, but the $800,000 jobs are probably going to be in places like Nome or Barrow, where it gets really cold.

 

[danzman]

Bringing you the weather report, it's 45 below this afternoon here in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska. It's so cold that you can't touch a piece of metal without burning your hand. It's so cold that a glass of vodka will freeze solid. It's so cold that if I turn the heater in my cabin off, it won't ever start again until the outside temperature warms up to a mere 20 below. This isn't even as cold as Alaska gets. I'll ask the doctors in my ED what they make, but the $800,000 jobs are probably going to be in places like Nome or Barrow, where it gets really cold.

Holy crap!

A friend is a PharmD and got offered a gig in Alaska for a three yr contract, 300K a year. She turned it down.

 

[DreamingTheLive]

Bringing you the weather report, it's 45 below this afternoon here in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska. It's so cold that you can't touch a piece of metal without burning your hand. It's so cold that a glass of vodka will freeze solid. It's so cold that if I turn the heater in my cabin off, it won't ever start again until the outside temperature warms up to a mere 20 below. This isn't even as cold as Alaska gets. I'll ask the doctors in my ED what they make, but the $800,000 jobs are probably going to be in places like Nome or Barrow, where it gets really cold.

(*crosses Alaska OFF potential destinations down the road*.....)

 

[Groove]

I'd probably be found frozen solid, halfway to the bank to cash my first paycheck. Big grin on my face....some scientists would probably find my body 300 years later and clone me for the "stupid" gene.

Damn though... I'd almost embrace frostbite and amputation for the 800K/year to pay off my loans. As long as it was confined to my toes...

 

[cofcemt]

Bringing you the weather report, it's 45 below this afternoon here in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska. It's so cold that you can't touch a piece of metal without burning your hand. It's so cold that a glass of vodka will freeze solid. It's so cold that if I turn the heater in my cabin off, it won't ever start again until the outside temperature warms up to a mere 20 below. This isn't even as cold as Alaska gets. I'll ask the doctors in my ED what they make, but the $800,000 jobs are probably going to be in places like Nome or Barrow, where it gets really cold.

That's ok. 800k/yr and someone could hit me with a bat everyday for 3 years. Graduating with 250k in debt does that to you though.

 

[Chip N Sawbones]

Don't get me wrong, there are lots and lots of nice places in Alaska where it doesn't get anywhere near that cold. Where I grew up, winter nights rarely got down to zero. It rained a lot, but southeast and southcentral Alaska are so beautiful that the rain was worth it. There's hunting, hiking, kayaking, and there's so many fish that you can't see the river bottom. Doctor's salaries are probably somewhat higher than average there, but not anything like $800,000 a year. To make that much money, you'll need to go to a town north of the arctic circle with 90% alcoholism and teen pregnancy rates, where the people go so crazy that their idea of a good time is getting drunk and shooting rifles at each other to see how close they can shoot and still miss.

On the bright side, after a three year contract there, you'd probably have lots and lots of things to contribute to the "Things I Learn From My Patients" thread.

 

[Chip N Sawbones]

Damn though... I'd almost embrace frostbite and amputation for the 800K/year to pay off my loans. As long as it was confined to my toes...

It might not be. You know how your tongue will stick to a flagpole in the cold? The same affect applies to butt cheeks on an outhouse seat. Don't ask me how I know.

 

[EM_Rebuilder]

My wife has worked in Prudhoe Bay... is that far enough North Alaska?

You should see her 'arctic gear'... it makes the eskimos in TV shows look like they have shorts and tank shirts on...

She was in the oil stuff and they rarely interacted with the 'locals'... but she said it was a VERY different world up there.

Many things in far north pay well (her job did then).. also think of that Ice Road Truckers; those people bank as truckers... but I have a HARD time believing the figure of 800K... If nothing else, there just is not any volume to make that happen. Probably two doctors and a small plane could service all of the north of Alasks in the Summertime. In the winter, I figure you are largely SOL.

Sure, down in the south of Alaska I am sure there are places where there is high volumes, but I also doubt they have as hard of a time recuriting folks in the south. I am anxious to see if the OP can post additional information about this position...

 

[leorl]

Yeah, let us know ... I think a lot of people would be interested in checking something like this out - relatively short time span, opportunity to explore a new and beautiful area, etc.

 

[gman33]

The salary seemed far fetched to me.
That's why I started the thread.

I'll see if I can come up with any details.

 

[theWUbear]

Bump - i've been told the rumors of high pay contracts for EM in alaska and I am curious if it's something possible right out of residency. any information?

 

[Old_Mil]

I was talking to a resident the other day.
He told me there are opportunities for EM docs in Alaska that pay crazy money.

If you commit to a 3 year stint, they pay you $800k/year.
Not sure I believe this is true.

Anyone hear of opportunities like this?

I know some less desirable places will pay big bucks to attract EM trainied docs.

800k is higher than anywhere I've heard.

Keep in mind that the cost of living in Alaska is significantly higher than it is most other places. You will probably be spending in the neighborhood of $500,000 for house. It does have the advantage of having no personal income tax or sales tax for what that is worth. You may find yourself practicing in or near an Indian reservation with or without an IHS clinic or hospital to service it. Don't count on much from these facilities. There is a lot of social and psychological pathology in these places. Whatever the cause, the crap ends up in your lap. Want to deal with the fallout from a rollover MVC with a crew of drunk 12 and 13 year olds? Go practice near the res where there is no minimum driving age.

Also, keep in mind that half of that 800k will be taxed at a 39.6% tax rate. Throw in medicare and the Obamacare medicare penalty and you'll be over 40%.

To break it down monthly, your pre-tax monthly income would be 66,000 a month. After you pay taxes you would be down to 38,820.44 a month (http://www.paycheckcity.com/calculator/salary/result).

I may be a bit Randian in my view, but anytime you start taking 40+ cents of every dollar I earn that's enough of a disincentive for me to show up for work. I'd just as soon go fishing or something. In my former life, we had the phrase "Withdrawal of enthusiasm."

Personally, I wouldn't do it. There are a lot of places where you can make decent money, pay off your school loans, and not have that massive 40%+ tax hit on half your income with a more reasonable cost of living than Alaska. If you want to go there because the Alaskan outdoors is "your thing" and you really want to live there, it may be another story.

 

[gman33]

What a bump from the past.

I wouldn't take a job somewhere I don't want to live.
Maybe if I was single and there was a huge pay difference.

I can get a job with good pay in an area I like and do just fine.

But if some recruiter is stalking this forum and has an $800k job, I'm all ears.

 

[Chip N Sawbones]

800k is higher than anywhere I've heard.

Keep in mind that the cost of living in Alaska is significantly higher than it is most other places. You will probably be spending in the neighborhood of $500,000 for house. It does have the advantage of having no personal income tax or sales tax for what that is worth. You may find yourself practicing in or near an Indian reservation with or without an IHS clinic or hospital to service it. Don't count on much from these facilities. There is a lot of social and psychological pathology in these places. Whatever the cause, the crap ends up in your lap. Want to deal with the fallout from a rollover MVC with a crew of drunk 12 and 13 year olds? Go practice near the res where there is no minimum driving age.

Also, keep in mind that half of that 800k will be taxed at a 39.6% tax rate. Throw in medicare and the Obamacare medicare penalty and you'll be over 40%.

To break it down monthly, your pre-tax monthly income would be 66,000 a month. After you pay taxes you would be down to 38,820.44 a month (http://www.paycheckcity.com/calculator/salary/result).

I may be a bit Randian in my view, but anytime you start taking 40+ cents of every dollar I earn that's enough of a disincentive for me to show up for work. I'd just as soon go fishing or something. In my former life, we had the phrase "Withdrawal of enthusiasm."

Personally, I wouldn't do it. There are a lot of places where you can make decent money, pay off your school loans, and not have that massive 40%+ tax hit on half your income with a more reasonable cost of living than Alaska. If you want to go there because the Alaskan outdoors is "your thing" and you really want to live there, it may be another story.

Basically true except for a few things. Houses in Alaska cost about the same as the national average. A reasonably nice 3 bed, 2 bath in Fairbanks will be about $200,000. Anchorage and Juneau will be more expensive, but still not in the $500,000 range unless you're looking for something really big and nice. If there actually are $800,000/year jobs they won't be in those cities anyhow. As for the cost of living, even on a low income I've found Fairbanks to be cheaper than New Orleans (already fairly cheap as far as cities go) once taxes are factored in. There are no Indian reservations in Alaska. Instead there's a system of Native corporations which received land grants. As a result, state law still applies there, so the areas that have roads will also have minimum driving ages, at least for cars. 4-wheelers and snowmobiles are sometimes a different matter. Most social and psychological pathology will be about the same as you'll see in any community hospital in a rural/underserved part of the U.S.

 

[TheBlueBlazer]

I was flipping through my ACEP throwaway whilst leading the Browns to the Super Bowl, and saw their EP Compensation report listed Alaska, Idaho and Montana as an average of $235K/year. I had always heard quite the opposite. Is something flawed with their methods, or is this legit info?

 

[Mad Jack]

Don't get me wrong, there are lots and lots of nice places in Alaska where it doesn't get anywhere near that cold. Where I grew up, winter nights rarely got down to zero. It rained a lot, but southeast and southcentral Alaska are so beautiful that the rain was worth it. There's hunting, hiking, kayaking, and there's so many fish that you can't see the river bottom. Doctor's salaries are probably somewhat higher than average there, but not anything like $800,000 a year. To make that much money, you'll need to go to a town north of the arctic circle with 90% alcoholism and teen pregnancy rates, where the people go so crazy that their idea of a good time is getting drunk and shooting rifles at each other to see how close they can shoot and still miss.

On the bright side, after a three year contract there, you'd probably have lots and lots of things to contribute to the "Things I Learn From My Patients" thread.

We already think that's a solid idea for a good time up in Maine.

Seriously though, I was talking with some of the locals that'll chase moose down the road with their trucks for the hell of it, because moose are too stupid to run left or right, they just keep going straight down the road. You can literally run them to death, though it doesn't do you any good if you don't have a moose hunting ticket, which you basically have to sell your firstborn to get.. If this is freakin' Maine, I can't imagine what people would do for kicks in Alaska.

 

[Chip N Sawbones]

Well, moose licenses in Alaska are relatively cheap and I could have gone moose hunting out of my kitchen window if I'd wanted to, so I haven't heard of anyone there chasing them down with trucks. Besides shooting at each other and trying to miss, the only really memorable crazy thing I've seen was that when I was a premed volunteering in the ER, we had one night when about ten patients showed up with poisoning from drinking things like lysol, antifreeze, mouthwash and floor polish. I know you guys see those cases often enough, but ten in one night and not all from the same party? None of the nurses could figure it out until someone realized that it was rainy and cold and people probably didn't want to walk to the liquor store, so they were drinking whatever they could find at home. I think I wrote up a post about it for the "Things I learn from my patients" thread.

 

[cabinbuilder]

I was talking to a resident the other day.
He told me there are opportunities for EM docs in Alaska that pay crazy money.

If you commit to a 3 year stint, they pay you $800k/year.
Not sure I believe this is true.

Anyone hear of opportunities like this?

I know some less desirable places will pay big bucks to attract EM trainied docs.
Not that I have any great desire to live in Alaska, but I wouldn't mind moving somewhere for a few years after training if that would allow me to sock away a bunch of money for retirement and pay off some student loans.

This should be about the last thing on my mind right now.
Just wondering what may be out there that I never heard of before.

Umm I"m from Alaska and have worked there as a doctor. That is super high money. I would say about half of that is realistic.

 

[cabinbuilder]

Bringing you the weather report, it's 45 below this afternoon here in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska. It's so cold that you can't touch a piece of metal without burning your hand. It's so cold that a glass of vodka will freeze solid. It's so cold that if I turn the heater in my cabin off, it won't ever start again until the outside temperature warms up to a mere 20 below. This isn't even as cold as Alaska gets. I'll ask the doctors in my ED what they make, but the $800,000 jobs are probably going to be in places like Nome or Barrow, where it gets really cold.

Yep, totally true. The coldest I was in Fairbanks, winter of 1989, 78 below zero. Gotta be tough. On the flip side you are inside all the time anyway working so it doesn't matter if it's 70 below or 100 above, I'm still inside.

 

[knovecc]

I also heard (back in 2011) some EM positions in northern Manitoba offer 500K. While not denying the truthfulness of these figures, I think they are just anecdotal numbers and not really representative, even with the extreme remoteness factored in.

 

[Birdstrike]

There's an old saying that goes, "Job by the bay, half the pay." The inverse is also true. Work where less want to work, and you can likely command higher pay. Go where everyone's fighting to have a spot, and you're likely to earn less. It doesn't always follow, but often it's true.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

You don't have to go to Manitoba to make $500K. Join a small democratic group in a suburban hospital with a good payor mix, work all nights, and work a bunch of shifts. Honestly I find it amazing that people take $150-200K EM jobs. Average is $275K for employees. Find an above average partnership job and work hard and you too can give away 40-50% of your last dollar in taxes.

Remember these averages include lots of docs working 10-12 shifts and lots of folks who care more about location than pay.

$500K/$300/hour = 1667 hours, or about 138 hours a month or 31 hours a week. i.e. Twelve 12 hour shifts per month.

Now are you going to hit $500K working for $150 an hour for some CMG? Probably not. But you could still get into the $350K range if you work hard.

 

[bashwell]

I'm guessing with EM in Alaska, you won't have to worry as much about getting adjusted to the change from days to nights or nights to days for at least some parts of the year! (Although this doesn't necessarily mean your Circadian rhythm can't still be adversely affected.)

 

[Chip N Sawbones]

Here are some jobs:
http://www.drjobs.us/emergency-medicine/alaska-emergency-medicine.php
Call and find out if is true ....or not!

Well, one of the jobs advertises Kotzebue as "the hub of culture, activity, and wildlife in beautiful Alaska," which is a laughable exaggeration. There's no activity there, the culture consists mainly of drinking heavily, and there isn't all that much wildlife on the North Slope. About the best thing I can say about living there is that there's a beautiful woman behind every tree.

 

[MSUSpartan642]

$500K/$300/hour = 1667 hours, or about 138 hours a month or 31 hours a week. i.e. Twelve 12 hour shifts per month.

Considering I'm an intern I really have no clue what the market is for jobs but are 300$/hr common to even find?

 

[The White Coat Investor]

About the best thing I can say about living there is that there's a beautiful woman behind every tree.

I doubt most people here got that, but having spent 3 days there on a senior trip right after high school (was going to Nome, but got booted in Kotzebue as it was a standby ticket and next plane didn't come for 3 days), I was laughing out loud. Thanks for the chuckle.

 

[Birdstrike]

Well, one of the jobs advertises Kotzebue as "the hub of culture, activity, and wildlife in beautiful Alaska," which is a laughable exaggeration. There's no activity there, the culture consists mainly of drinking heavily, and there isn't all that much wildlife on the North Slope. About the best thing I can say about living there is that there's a beautiful woman behind every tree.

Take it there's no trees there? Lol

 

[Vandalia]

Yes, there are some crazy salary figures out there. But there is usually a reason for it - and it is not just location.

About a decade ago, I got an email about an occupational medicine job at a factory in Tennessee. (They would take any primary care + EM.) It was for $400K a year. Not crazy money for EM, but it probably caught the attention of some family med guys. But, it required being on site 6 am - 6 pm, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year, and on call for the other 12 hours a day.

I know a former military EM physician who took one of those "arctic circle" jobs. I don't know his pay, but $400K+ for 6 months would probably not be crazily unrealistic. But, he said that meant being on call/on duty 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, for 6 months (not necessarily consecutive.) If you had to be up 96 hours straight, well it tvcked to be you. The mindset was pretty much "old school" residency.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

Take it there's no trees there? Lol

Nor beautiful women, except the two 18 year old women I went on the trip with!

 

[Mad Jack]

.

 

[Robinson EM]

Another reason EM is a great job. You can go work a crazy job for one year and clear 500-600k.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Another reason EM is a great job. You can go work a crazy job for one year and clear 500-600k.

YOu better learn a lot more about the tax structure if you hope to "clear" that much.

 

[emergentmd]

What tax structure? And why is 600K so much. I have a contract now that I do locums at 4k/12hr shift base. I could do 20 shift a month if I wanted. I would pull in 80K without any bonuses.

I know a guy who does locums with them and he told me he pulled in 80K last month just doing 12 shifts with bonuses. That is on top of his normal job.

 

[Chip N Sawbones]

I doubt most people here got that, but having spent 3 days there on a senior trip right after high school (was going to Nome, but got booted in Kotzebue as it was a standby ticket and next plane didn't come for 3 days), I was laughing out loud. Thanks for the chuckle.

Yes, there's no trees in Kotzebue, or anywhere near there. I got to tell the same joke a few years ago when I was on the plane to Kodiak, where I used to live. I was sitting next to a bright-eyed Coast Guard sailor fresh out of basic training. He was very excited to be there, and he told me "When I signed up for the Coast Guard I joined on the condition that they send me up to Alaska, so they gave me a two year tour on Attu Island. By the way, where is Attu Island?"
I couldn't bring myself to tell the poor guy that Attu was a barren island with some of the worst weather in the entire world, and it was the kind of place that new recruits get sent to when they try to bargain with the military. He was going to find out soon enough anyhow. I just told him not to worry, it was over to the west of Kodiak and he'd find a beautiful woman behind every tree there. I would have loved to see his face when he arrived on Attu and got the joke.

 

[sonofva]

There's an old saying that goes, "Job by the bay, half the pay." The inverse is also true. Work where less want to work, and you can likely command higher pay. Go where everyone's fighting to have a spot, and you're likely to earn less. It doesn't always follow, but often it's true.

Job by the dirt, your bank account won't hurt.

 

[sonofva]

Job by the mine, lots of nickels and dimes?

 

[sonofva]

Job faraway, double the pay!!! ... That's the one haha

 

[fancymylotus]

I should go do dentistry in Alaska, penguins need dental care too.

And Iditarod.

And helping people, of course.

 

[Birdstrike]

I should go do dentistry in Alaska, penguins need dental care too.

And Iditarod.

And helping people, of course.

Cause that's what you're all about, right? "Helping people." Lol

 

[fancymylotus]

Cause that's what you're all about, right? "Helping people." Lol

Mean. MEAN, Birdstrike.

Also answer your PM's

 

[Birdstrike]

Mean. MEAN, Birdstrike.

Also answer your PM's

I was so messing with you, you know
Lol

 

[fancymylotus]

I was so messing with you, you know
Lol

lets run the NYC marathon.
then we shall see who is the mightier one. fml v birdstrike

 

[Birdstrike]

lets run the NYC marathon.
then we shall see who is the mightier one. fml v birdstrike

I'd love to, someday. Time to train is the biggest factor. As far as who is mightier, that's obvious to all>>>>>>fml