Johns Hopkins? pre-med

[C@rol]

Hello,

I'm a high school senior and I have been accepted to Johns Hopkins and Northeastern. The price for each school would be almost identical.

Hopkins has the obvious prestige, option to easily double major, cutting edge research, and is known for sending its kids to good med schools. However, Baltimore and the "cutthroat" environment it is known for (from what I understand the GPAs of Hopkins students are much lower than those of other schools at its level) make me hesitant.

I like Northeastern's co-ops (you go and work in a real setting for 6 months) study abroad programs, and Boston. But with Northeastern I worry I won't have the edge that perhaps Hopkins could give me...

Any thoughts on which school I could benefit the most from?

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[Hillo]

I think you can go cheaper. Like a community college. I'm sure you received a scholarship to a state university, so why not take it?

Some points I'd like to make -
1) prestige doesn't dazzle adcoms (someone got into either/both Harvard Med or/and Johns Hopkins Med by going to community college and then U of Nevada, Las Vegas)
2) double major doesn't matter (why would it?)
3) "cutting edge" research doesn't mean you'll enjoy it unless you have researched at the lab you're trying to get into (all labs are different)
4) "cutthroat" environment is unhealthy... you'll have less honest interactions with people (and more unnecessary pressure)

And think about WHY you want to go to a "good med school." Some state med schools are GREAT, you know.
I'd have gone to the most fun school if time was not a factor.

Also, I know a guy currently at Johns Hopkins University, and he's simply getting an ego-boost from the name.
I see nothing special about him except that he tries to make himself look brilliant (by posting a picture of himself with a whiteboard full of basic biology words) and that his parents have money (I've been to his house and in one of his parents' cars).

So yea, it truly is up to the individual (not the university).

 

[C@rol]

Surprisingly I got more money at those two schools than at my state school and going to my local community college is not really an option for me (it's terrible and the living arrangement would be expensive and difficult).

I see how what I said about a "good med school" would sound. In reality I just meant med school in general, sorry!

So you feel it doesn't matter as long as it's cheaper I should go for the fun option? I suppose that makes sense, I just don't know which school that would be!

 

[Hillo]

Maybe you should go visit both of them? So that you'll have no regrets.

Also, I hope you calculated the net costs (including living expenses pertaining to the area) after subtracting the money you'll receive.

 

[osprey099]

Go to hopkins.

 

[C@rol]

I have visited Northeastern and fell in love with the city/social scene. I plan to visit Hopkins next week. And yes, I did calculate the net costs, they are what make the cost of attending so close (I got a better scholarship at NE but the cost of living in Boston is much higher than Baltimore).

@osprey099 is there a specific reason why you feel I should go to Hopkins?

I'm just really stressed because I have a very short time to make a decision and I really don't want to have any regrets/screw up...

 

[osprey099]

It's not even a comparison here. JHU will offer you all the opportunities you need to build up a strong medical school application, and more. Hopkins is one of the few schools regarded as a premed powerhouse and sends close to 250 kids to US allopathics every year (out of a total class of only 1300 so that's a good proportion).

It will be hard to get the grades you want here at Hopkins and everyone is competitive in the sense that they all want to do well but if you wanted to have fun, why are you pursuing medical school in the first place. If anything, the rigor at jhu will prepare you for the rigor of med school.

 

[Hillo]

If you have good listening skills and efficient study methods, you'll do fine in medical school.

What sets you apart from the nerds is your personality, interests, and motivation in doing what you do.
Those things make you a better physician and avoid burning out.

And think about why people say not to pre-study... You'll learn all that you need to know in medical school.

 

[mcloaf]

You could make a good argument for either, and I don't think there's one right answer.

If you are the type of person who is going to be able to succeed in the Hopkins premed environment then it will give you an incredible wealth of opportunities of which you can take advantage. On the other hand if you're going to hate it and end up with a crappy GPA then it might not be worth it.

Northeastern certainly isn't going to keep you out of any medical schools, and if you think you'll be happier and succeed more there then it's the right place to go.

I think you can go cheaper. Like a community college. I'm sure you received a scholarship to a state university, so why not take it?
1) prestige doesn't dazzle adcoms (someone got into either/both Harvard Med or/and Johns Hopkins Med by going to community college and then U of Nevada, Las Vegas)
2) double major doesn't matter (why would it?)
3) "cutting edge" research doesn't mean you'll enjoy it unless you have researched at the lab you're trying to get into (all labs are different)
4) "cutthroat" environment is unhealthy... you'll have less honest interactions with people (and more unnecessary pressure)

Why would someone go to a community college assuming they can afford to go to Hopkins, Northeastern, or another 4 year university. There's more to undergrad than just trying to get a degree while spending the least amount of money.

1. Sure 1 person went to community college and UNLV and was accepted to top med schools. I wonder how many people from Hopkins undergrad got into those same schools? I agree prestige isn't everything, but saying it's entirely irrelevant is a fairy tale.
2. agree
3. agree, but at a place like Hopkins there are going to be a million labs to choose from and they're mostly being run by highly successful people who are leaders in their fields.
4. Maybe. Depends on the person. I wouldn't want to go to Hopkins for premed undergrad, but there are kids in my class who did and enjoyed it quite a bit.

If you have good listening skills and efficient study habits, you'll do fine in medical school.

Are you really offering advice on how to do well in medical school?

 

[Hillo]

mcloaf, I'm just trying to offer another perspective.
I wanted to disapprove the idea of going to Johns Hopkins because "jhu will prepare you for the rigor of med school" as if doing well in med school is impossible without being exposed to a competitive environment.

Also, I recall there were two people who successfully got into an OMFS residency.
One person who had a sub-3.0 (I believe) in undergrad, and the other person who majored in guitar performance (and failed his first exam in dental school, I believe? Forgot).

And I remember reading about people who did very poorly in high school yet did fantastic in college and med school.
I personally went to community college (did not work or learn much due to my laziness) and noticed that it did not affect my work ethic or organizational skills.

I mentioned community college to make a point that the name of a school isn't that big of a deal.
It's just a path I would want my kid to take if he/she did not receive a scholarship and did not want to be more in debt.

 

[MedAhmed]

Hello,

I'm a high school senior and I have been accepted to Johns Hopkins and Northeastern. The price for each school would be almost identical.

Hopkins has the obvious prestige, option to easily double major, cutting edge research, and is known for sending its kids to good med schools. However, Baltimore and the "cutthroat" environment it is known for (from what I understand the GPAs of Hopkins students are much lower than those of other schools at its level) make me hesitant.

I like Northeastern's co-ops (you go and work in a real setting for 6 months) study abroad programs, and Boston. But with Northeastern I worry I won't have the edge that perhaps Hopkins could give me...

Any thoughts on which school I could benefit the most from?

If you don't mind me asking, what was your GPA and SAT Score?

 

[hmockingbird]

If you forget about the prestige, which school do you like better? What if you were to decide during college that you didn't want to do pre-med anymore, which one would you be happiest at? That's the one you should go to. It sounds to me from your post that you are more drawn to Northeastern. As someone else said, Northeastern isn't a bad college at all and isn't going to keep you out of med school. JHU's research opportunities are definitely something to consider, but if that is the main draw and Northeastern has more "pros" on your list in general, I'm sure they will have opportunities for research too. To play devil's advocate, drawbacks of a "pre-med powerhouse" and very research-centered institutions could be that you're just one of many and don't have as much of an opportunity for individual attention/independence since these programs/opportunities are so popular; at a smaller or less prestigious school, you might have more of a chance to be a "big fish in a small pond" so to speak. On the other hand, you like Northeastern's study abroad programs, but I am sure JHU has study abroad options and would be easy to get into any study abroad program from there.

I turned down a well-known/prestigious school, partly for the money, but mostly because I really liked another school better and it was a better fit for me (size, environment/culture, non-academic programs/ECs, etc). I still got into medical school, but got to take advantage of the culture and programs that I liked at the less-prestigious school and really enjoyed them.

 

[C@rol]

@MedAhmed my GPA was 3.88/4 and I got a 32 in my ACT (never took the SAT).

 

[RubicStorm]

Sounds a bit like myself years ago tbh... well here it goes....

I attended and graduated from Hopkins years ago with two majors, one science and one not. GREAT school, great students (had great roommates), great teachers, great opportunities... and it nearly destroyed my medical school ambitions. Yep, I'm the "other" guy per statistics, the guy who didn't maintain at least a 3.6 or 3.5 etc.

On paper, I was superbly prepared for JHU after HS. I had sky high grades and stats, mountains (at the time, it was considerable, but probably run of the mill nowdays) of APs in hard sciences, 5s in BC Cal, Physics C etc. and 4-5s in several humanities, Econs, US and World History etc.

None of that mattered. JHU wrecked my face in from Inorganic Chem through Genetics and Developmental Bio and other high level courses. The school's reputation for being "deflationary" is probably overstated, but if you're struggling, that tough curve for that tough exam is just that much more demoralizing. Even encouragements and helpful advices *feel* like punches in the gut because ALL of your classmates, roommates and friends are geniuses/academically gifted. There is an inherent do or die atmosphere in many of the medical pre-req./recommended courses and I will plainly admit that I did not handle them well.

I do NOT blame the professors or school or the students. It's just when you have that many worried, paranoid and yes, competitive pre-meds in one location, someone's going to get pushed to the bottom. That was me and it might be you (or if might not ).

If tl;dr, "prestige" of JHU isn't worth the potential disaster you may incur on your grades. Go there only if you love the school and are ready to pay the price, financial and otherwise. At 18, I was too head strong, too proud, too etc. etc. Live and learn I guess. I'm still going to a US med school this fall. But it took me a while and I had to crush a SMP with a near perfect GPA after Hopkins to get a shot.

My two cents. I leave it for you to take how you will...

edit: he, this April Fool's joke = best eva!

 

[C@rol]

@RubicStorm thank you so much for your post. I have been thinking very hard and have decided to go to NEU instead.
I am willing to work very hard and have always had a competitive streak in me but after reading your post I realized that this would only make me kill myself trying to "out do" others at JHU.
I attend a very small and (insanely) competitive private high school and sadly I've had no life for the past 4 yrs. In my high school there is a huge all-or-nothing pressure to perform. This has driven me crazy because I'm an extremely social person and feel I have already missed out on so much. I don't want to do a repeat of high school.
Besides, I guess the strongest point JHU had in my book was the prestige. But like you said: at what cost?

I'm glad in the end you still got into med school, your perseverance and willingness to work hard is amazing

 

[RubicStorm]

@RubicStorm thank you so much for your post. I have been thinking very hard and have decided to go to NEU instead.
I am willing to work very hard and have always had a competitive streak in me but after reading your post I realized that this would only make me kill myself trying to "out do" others at JHU.
I attend a very small and (insanely) competitive private high school and sadly I've had no life for the past 4 yrs. In my high school there is a huge all-or-nothing pressure to perform. This has driven me crazy because I'm an extremely social person and feel I have already missed out on so much. I don't want to do a repeat of high school.
Besides, I guess the strongest point JHU had in my book was the prestige. But like you said: at what cost?

I'm glad in the end you still got into med school, your perseverance and willingness to work hard is amazing

Glad my spiel helped you out. I think your willingness to examine yourself would have saved you from my situation regardless. It also sounds like you'll be happy at Northeastern.

You'll be in Boston so the research and medical volunteer opportunities are endless. Longwood medical area is literally in your backyard. If you're able to network and use your social skills, you may find a bigger bounty for your medical career goals than going to Baltimore.

Thank you for your support, but I'd the luxury of 2nd chances. Best of luck to you.

 

[StBernardsRule]

I would try to figure out how smart you are relative to the average student at each school. Going to John Hopkins sounds like a good play if you're truly brilliant and a workaholic (I would say the same for other extremely competitive schools), but if you're going to be below average at John Hopkins (like 50% of the class will be) I imagine it'd be a terrible choice.

FWIW, very few people are truly brilliant. I don't think I know a single person who went to an ultra competitive school and thought it was the right choice and I know some extremely gifted people (one of who did go to an ultra competitive school and binked 40+ on the MCAT, but hated it there).

 

[StBernardsRule]

@RubicStorm thank you so much for your post. I have been thinking very hard and have decided to go to NEU instead.
I am willing to work very hard and have always had a competitive streak in me but after reading your post I realized that this would only make me kill myself trying to "out do" others at JHU.
I attend a very small and (insanely) competitive private high school and sadly I've had no life for the past 4 yrs. In my high school there is a huge all-or-nothing pressure to perform. This has driven me crazy because I'm an extremely social person and feel I have already missed out on so much. I don't want to do a repeat of high school.
Besides, I guess the strongest point JHU had in my book was the prestige. But like you said: at what cost?

I'm glad in the end you still got into med school, your perseverance and willingness to work hard is amazing

Bah just read this, you are wise beyond your years. Best of luck in school.

 

[Jan2809]

Hello Rubic, My D is in the same dilemma in choosing between JHU & Honor's program at UMD CP. I have a couple of quick questions 1) On a scale of 1 to 10 how difficult was it to maintain your GPA in the pre med courses at JHU? 2) Did JHU offer research opportunities/internships that would have been difficult to get into in public schools 3) Does the pre med advisory office controls the med schools to which you can apply 4) Do med schools weigh the GPA from JHU differently than GPA from a public school. Appreciate your response. Thanks

 

[yesdee]

@Jan2809 Only deciding factor is - how likely your D can get a decent gpa at Hopkins. If you can nail a 3.7 or better at JHU, go for it. It will open many doors for your daughter. But, if maintaining a decent gpa is not possible, take UMD. It's a great school and sends many students to medical schools. I understand it is difficult to predict your GPA at any school, but try to find outcome of similar caliber students at JHU.

 

[Glazedonutlove]

I think you can go cheaper. Like a community college. I'm sure you received a scholarship to a state university, so why not take it?

Some points I'd like to make -
1) prestige doesn't dazzle adcoms (someone got into either/both Harvard Med or/and Johns Hopkins Med by going to community college and then U of Nevada, Las Vegas)
2) double major doesn't matter (why would it?)
3) "cutting edge" research doesn't mean you'll enjoy it unless you have researched at the lab you're trying to get into (all labs are different)
4) "cutthroat" environment is unhealthy... you'll have less honest interactions with people (and more unnecessary pressure)

And think about WHY you want to go to a "good med school." Some state med schools are GREAT, you know.
I'd have gone to the most fun school if time was not a factor.

Also, I know a guy currently at Johns Hopkins University, and he's simply getting an ego-boost from the name.
I see nothing special about him except that he tries to make himself look brilliant (by posting a picture of himself with a whiteboard full of basic biology words) and that his parents have money (I've been to his house and in one of his parents' cars).

So yea, it truly is up to the individual (not the university).

This isn't good advice. Many med schools don't accept/like prereqs from community college and you would have limited resources to get involved with research and good extracurriculars. If you can afford to go to a good 4 year university, you should. Also, the undergrad you attend does matter for top private med schools.

 

[efle]

Hello Rubic, My D is in the same dilemma in choosing between JHU & Honor's program at UMD CP

How is this possible? You shouldn't have an admissions decision from JHU this early unless you did Early Decision, and if you did shouldn't that be binding?

 

[Jan2809]

How is this possible? You shouldn't have an admissions decision from JHU this early unless you did Early Decision, and if you did shouldn't that be binding?

Yes she applied for ED for Biomedical Program.. She didn't get admitted into the BME program but got into Hopkins and has the opportunity to choose other programs like Neuroscience etc.. Since she didn't get her #1 choice, it's not binding at this stage, but still has to decide quickly.

 

[Jan2809]

Thanks Yesdee.

 

[efle]

Yes she applied for ED for Biomedical Program.. She didn't get admitted into the BME program but got into Hopkins and has the opportunity to choose other programs like Neuroscience etc.. Since she didn't get her #1 choice, it's not binding at this stage, but still has to decide quickly.

Ah, gotcha. My .02...

JHU is notorious for being deflating and difficult (and often much harsher adjectives like miserable or cutthroat). Something like 3/4 students come in interested in premed and the majority (~2/3rds) are weeded out. That said, they do graduate hundreds of extremely competitive med applicants each year (a full quarter of each class), and the AAMC survey of medical admissions committees shows that for private med schools, "selectivity of undergrad" is an important factor.

So, she should give some thought to what she'd be diving into and how averse she would be to switching out of premed should that be necessary. Strong science background and thrives on competition makes the choice much more sane than someone coming from a high school with limited resources or that wants to avoid lots of academic stress. Even if she'd be in the minority that makes high grades, it might not be the right choice if she's not keen on high workload, competitive academics.

I don't mean to sound overly discouraging, I chose a tough premed-heavy undergrad and have never regretted it. But many of my friends did, so give it some thought. If she has her heart dead set on medicine, it can be dangerous to assume she will be in that best third in a room full of similarly bright and hardworking students.

Is her acceptance rescinded if she fails to commit before Spring/before hearing about other acceptances?

 

[dreamadream]

Let me just tell you, JHU is the center of the hood, I'm not going to sugarcoat it because I'm from Baltimore, but its NOT THAT bad. I really wanted to go to Northeastern(its a gorgeous school), good luck.

 

[NotAnotherPreMed]

Current a senior at Hopkins (going to to a top medical school this fall): I do agree with most of what has been said in the post. If you can manage to be in the top 50% in your time at Hopkins, its an amazing school. Getting into any sort of research is a piece of cake (you will find some faculty researching into every topic you can conceivably think of), prestige is nice and adcoms do know about the rigor at Hopkins. That being said a 3.2 here won't do you too many favors unless you have stellar parts of your application elsewhere. If you're the least bit interested in MD/PhD then no question, go to Hopkins. JHU also gives you incredible resources if you're focused and know what you want to do (perks of having a large endowment I guess). For me, even if I had no ended up going into medicine, having an engineering degree from Hopkins would certainly serve me very well too. If you guys want me to talk about a particular aspect of Hopkins, let me know/PM me. I've enjoyed my time here and would love to help someone out.

 

[RubicStorm]

Hello Rubic, My D is in the same dilemma in choosing between JHU & Honor's program at UMD CP. I have a couple of quick questions 1) On a scale of 1 to 10 how difficult was it to maintain your GPA in the pre med courses at JHU? 2) Did JHU offer research opportunities/internships that would have been difficult to get into in public schools 3) Does the pre med advisory office controls the med schools to which you can apply 4) Do med schools weigh the GPA from JHU differently than GPA from a public school. Appreciate your response. Thanks

Hi Jan2809, apologies for late response, but I hope it's not too late to be of help.

1) 11/10 for me. Didn't maintain an acceptable pre-med GPA at JHU. I was a straight A high school student and would have had sophomore standing if JHU had allowed it so there wasn't any glaring academic warning signs.

2) JHU offers unparalleled access to the very best researchers in the country. The issue is how to make use of that. Your daughter will have juggle a lot of time commitments on top of maintaining stellar academic performances.

3) JHU won't "control" what schools your daughter can apply to per se. BUT, at a school like JHU, the poor performing pre-meds self-select themselves out of applying so the successful applicants % they report looks really, really good. I think/imagine/feel the pre-med committee is pretty content with that arrangement. I can't fault them for that and in-retrospect appreciate their honesty.

4) I'm 99% sure my medical school (not highly ranked) does not weight GPAs differently, but my interviewer definitely knew of JHU's reputation and made a little bit of allowance for it...just a little though. It really comes down to one of the two:
A) Stellar med school applicant: GPA 3.7 at JHU vs. 3.8-4.0 at random 4yr school => JHU wins
B) Good/borderline med school applicant: GPA 3.2 at JHU vs. 3.6-3.7 at random 4yr school => Random school wins by an interstellar light year.
I'm not sure there's anyway of knowing which a promising 18 yr old will end up being, but I'd say it's worth having a honest conversation with your daughter about it. I just happened to be student B.